what's the second bar area? you have a lot of seating in your kitchen. Is there anyway to move things around so that your ovens are closer to countertop space? maybe switch the pantry and oven in the island layout?

You might get better suggestions if you provide more detail about what you want and need. I dislike peninsulas because of the traffic impediment, love islands around which people gather, and needed a second sink. What works and doesn't in your current kitchen? Do you really intend to have 3 different seating areas in addition to a dining room? Do you have a view from your prep area?

Of the two choices, I prefer the island...but I would add a sink to the 'back' wall, by the range/cooktop. This will give you a prep or clean up area (depending on how you want to use the island) that is closer to the fridge and the island is not a barrier between this sink and fridge.

I'm confused by the second bar area, as well. Is that an existing space you use a lot? If so, have you ever considered adding a corner banquette for the table? If you did that, you might be able to extend the island further for seating and shrink the bar area a bit. Just a few ideas :)

"what's the second bar area? "
uh, the bar. there is currently a bar in that area that i hate the look of. we are using it as a coffee bar mostly, but it does get used as a gathering space/adult bar when we party. with the new floors the entire bar has to get ripped out, the one in the pic is just a mock up of what we might do. we would at least put cabinets there with the bar sink, mini fridge, and again use as coffee area. #1 that area would look empty and odd if nothing were there. whether we put the jut out for seating is in question. i do like having another hang out seating area that is not the kitchen overlooking the sink. but yes, it does make it very heavy on seating. too odd??

"You might get better suggestions if you provide more detail about what you want and need" "What works and doesn't in your current kitchen? " uh, everything :( this is a new to us house. i dont know if its because i hate (and i mean hate) the dark cabinets, yellow/gold granite, double sink, bilevel pen, tile floors, but no, i also dont like the layout. it's crowded if more than one person is in the U. and i feel i have very little useful counterspace.

we are family of 5 (kids 7-13) and we entertain frequently - but with lots of kids so very casually.

"Do you have a view from your prep area?" currently im not sure where my prep area is! but yes, the sink is in roughly the same place as in the peninsula plan, which is nice because it orients me toward the main space. that does slightly concern me turning the sink in the island senario, however i'd then be viewing the main kitchen table and have the island seating, so that's ok, right?

I DONT KNOW! This is a very difficult kitchen for me to layout because there are so many openings/doors. I really need help. I really could cry because I so loved my last kitchen

here are pics to current kitchen -- I posted before but the hideous bar became the main topic and I really need to concentrate on the layout in the kitchen proper.

http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/momof3kids_pa/library/

Here is a link that might be useful: kitchen pics

If you can move the DR door around the corner, you'd gain a much longer wall and a better work zone set-up like this

You'll notice I moved *all* of the kitchen appliances into the same area. That will make meal prep less of an aerobic exercise. ;-) Your plans had the fridge placed a good distance away from the sink and cook top. The top wall next to the ovens can be your baking zone. I extended the island and added a curved bar to give you lots of island seating.

The far right wall is your coffee station/snack zone/bar area. It's handy to the working kitchen area - not as far to walk with d1rty d1shes or to grab a clean mug - but it's in its own area, close to island seating and to the table. I added a prep/bar sink to that area. You can make one of the cabs a pantry cab for snack items and/or for baking goods since that is still close to the baking zone. This makes that stretch of wall your entertainment zone.

I turned the table 90 degrees so that you have room to expand the table for more seating when needed. That gives you room for at least 14 seats (had to estimate dimensions for the island so I could be off a bit). Kids tend to want to hang together, IME, so I put all the seating fairly close together. It's also a short trip between snack zone and the back door, always a plus with active kids or for outdoor entertaining.

Since you didn't care for the current bar, I eliminated it in this location and opted to expand your family room seating. I don't know if the pics show your current furniture or what was there when you bought the h0me but if you can, eliminate one leg of the sectional for a love seat. I added a round table at the end - another place to set a lamp and beverages, plus a sofa table behind the love seat. You can use this as an additional buffet table when you entertain.

If that is your sectional and you can't or aren't willing to change it (and I totally get that), you can fill the space between the sectional and the table with an additional seating area. Perhaps something like this:

[Traditional Living Room[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-living-room-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_718~s_2107) by Dallas Photographers Bill Bolin Photography

Anyhoo, that's the idea I came up with for you.

Edited to remove the dreaded green underline words. I hate that GW does this! Leave the ads in the side bar, please, not in the middle of our conversation.

This post was edited by lisa_a on Fri, Jul 11, 14 at 19:18

Lisa,

Nice plan! I was wondering if the dining room door could be moved, too. I can't get my picasa to work with this layout...so no picture :(

Anyway, move door to DR up from OP's current location. Put fridge and ovens on 'north' or top wall, then doorway to dining room, then shallow pantry/display space. Have cooktop between doors to garage and patio (more of a focal point) and island with sink, across from it. This would put seating with back to display area...and maybe that lower end of the island could be larger and round, for a few extra stools.

For the breakfast area...since there is a separate dining room, what about a smaller round pedestal table with corner banquette and a few chairs? Then maybe a built in between the two lower windows (current bar location) for laptop/phone chargers, message center, desk area, etc.

Have a great weekend :)

Lisa_a... thank you so much for all your great input especially the moving of the door!

Lavender_lass... I'm falling in love with your layout!! Well, at least please take a look at what I think you are saying...

The positives: 1) I love that I am not looking toward the patio door and the sink is placed where I'd have full view of the family room/main area. 2) no corner cabinets!! 3) I used to have a similar hutch area and loved it, and bonus I designed my Christmas village to fit on it so I could continue to do so 4) love the spacing around the rangetop, great spot for my pot rack 5) and one of my favorites... on the fridge wall I could get a normal fridge and pull all the other cabinets forward so it could look counter depth -- I was not all that happy to have to buy an expensive built in/counterdepth -- although I guess there is cost now added in moving the door but i feel it's worth it to have a good layout.

The one negative, and I'm not really sure it is... would traffic tend to flow on the hutch side of the island? Would it matter if people were cutting through my sink/cooktop area? Would it be bad to lessen the aisle space on that side so people would be drawn to walk to the hutch/sitting side? I guess I could train them! Or is the 48" aisle guideline enough that passerbys will be ok?

So what do you think of this?? good??? (hopefully the link works!)

Here is a link that might be useful: New Kitchen Layout w Dining Room Wall Moved

This post was edited by momof3kids_pa on Wed, Jul 16, 14 at 20:05

I think you have some similarities to my layout, which I love. I'm not an expert, but got generous help from experts here for which I'll always be grateful. That is a lot of island seating, do you want to give up so much storage (and buy so many stools?)? Are you keeping your clean-up zone and prep zone together because you do both jobs (and cooking? Don't tell my family!)?
Hang in there! My layout was really tough because of all the doorways, but we worked it out without moving them and the work and social flows are great now. Yours will be too.

I don't need all that island seating... would probably be ok with just 3 toward the bottom end. So if I did away with the stools at the top would you make the cabinets full depth? the ones on the hutch are 13" bottoms -- i had this setup in a hutch in my last house with those bottoms and I loved it, but it was in my dining room area - shallow bottoms would be not as useful in kitchen. I could make the bottoms normal 24" depth but I'm worried about aisle flow. Should I be??

Clean up zone and prep together? yes, I do do both jobs! occasionally i have helpers. Do you think those "zones" aren't good? Quite frankly I really dont understand the zones! I just know i need space next to my sink, both sides. and space next to my cooktop, both sides. I had thought about moving the rangetop down toward one end, so there would be a much longer counterspace - which I like - but then it won't be centered on that wall - which I don't like! Would it be visually weird if it was like this:

{{!gwi}}

Here is other side of island with normal base cabs: the aisle is 53". it would be nice to have all those drawers!!

{{!gwi}}

I think a 53" aisle is plenty wide. Have you seen the helpful NKBA guidelines?
I liked the centered range better. The length of your island is bothering me a little and I'm not sure why - perhaps because it extends into the other space and I think it should stop even with the counter on at least one of the sides?

Zones are all about thinking through the different things you do in the kitchen and making them convenient. My dh does most of the clean-up, so we have the dishwasher by "his" sink and "my" sink is the island prep sink near the rangetop. I really like the beverage center thing you have going, you'll need trash and recycling near there, and it can serve as a secondary prep area.

You are doing a great job! The more time and energy you can invest now in getting the layout exactly right the better your kitchen will be. Keep refining, getting as much help here as possible. I hope others will chime in for you!

Here is a link that might be useful: NKBA 31 design rules for kitchens

There are many pluses to LL's plan. However, I see what could be a big issue, IMO. It puts the primary working aisle of your kitchen in the direct path from the front door or garage entry to the backyard, DR and FR area. I'm not sure the island will direct traffic to go around it and not through it. I'd find that very annoying - and a potential safety hazard - during meal time prep.