I am crying about the floors. I am so very sad. I did not
want a 70s style interior brown floor. A ski lodge from
the Brady Bunch. Ugly! And I am angry at myself for being
such a big baby about this.

The floor guys stained them a mix of English Chestnut and
Mahogany. Which I picked. The floor guys keep telling me
they will get darker. It has been all day and I do not
see them getting darker. Maybe when they put the final
satin finish?

The worst part is the first thing I said when I saw the
floors was, "Oh, we will need to go darker."

The guy said right back.

"Oh you don't want to go darker, it will ruin the look of
the wood. You won't like it."

I don't give a fig about the wood, I want darker floors.
I have a look I am trying to go for and I feel like they
are not working with me. I want a rich warm brown that
looks elegant not like a stained barn.

What do I do? What do you think? Is this going to
look better or worse?

Gosh, I am worn out over this nightmare. I feel like the
owner of this company is more concerned about what people
will say when they see the floors (His work) then about
making the customer happy. They are thrilled with the way
the oak floors look natural. They hated the mahogany stain
saying this is not a natural color for oak. I am so
frustrated.

Thanks for letting me vent. I am being a big baby about
this. There are people in this world hungry, homeless,
jobless and suffering and I am crying about the floors. I
wanted an elegant look and it seems more like a dowdy
barn to me.

Maybe I am just overreacting to the floors. Perhaps
after a good night sleep I can visualize them better.
Trying to be optimistic but feeling sad.
~boxerpups :(

My inspiration pics.. Along with your own floors

Not my inspiration but I would be happy with this
a little lighter brown but it might be okay.

I talked to my brother who got beautiful refinished oak floor (chocolate/espresso/kinda color) and he said, they should have done test patch of different combination/ stain colors on the floor first for you to pick. His combination was ebony & walnut--minwax stain. However, each floor absorb stain so differently so the best way is to test patch it. He also said, they have to apply couple coats of stain, not just one.

Hope this help. I had to wait for 5 years when I had enough $$ to refinish the whole floor (to pale naked white oak---my taste changed) :-D

Go with your gut on this one and get them darker. I think redroze had a similar problem with her floors and she took the time to do them all over. Now she has gorgeous ebony color.

I don't think they look awful at all, but it is not your vision. Did they do a test patch?

I'm thinking of you, hopefully your floor guy will want to make this right!

Hope that would do the trick for you.

Please don't despair!

Have you shown your inspiration photos to the floor guy? I'm sure my contractors were inwardly groaning every time I brought out my laptop, but I made them look at my photos, so they could see exactly what I wanted.

I was worried about English Chestnut not being dark enough and my floor guy told me if I wasn't happy with how it looked after the first coat of stain he'd use a darker stain on the second coat to make it darker. It ended up being just right, but I agree with positano that the floors don't get darker by themselves.

I want to reassure you that the stain alone does look pretty dull and blah. The satin finish will make it look so much prettier and shinier ... but not darker.

If you want darker, then insist on it! If he dares to tell you again, "Oh you don't want to go darker blah blah blah" then you tell him, "Yes, as a matter of fact, I do want them darker." Be firm!

Sending you a digital ((hug)),

Erika

No, that floor is not what you wanted. If you're doing a poly coat it will not get any darker though it might get more yellow/orange. Generally speaking, multiple coats of stain (especially Minwax) don't work well if at all. That first coat fills in all the pores and there's nowhere for subsequent coats to go.

Your floor guys sound like real prima donnas. I'd tell them they either do the job right (meaning the way YOU want it) or they don't get paid. They are there to do a service, not to stroke their own egos. Be strong, be firm.

Did they water pop? Did you even ask them about that? Water popping is really the only way to get a decent dark color with stain. (Yes, I know some here have got there other ways but water popping is the industry standard.)

You *might* be able to fix it by using a coat of another color - a true brown with blue/purple undertones. The generic/standard name for this is Cordovan. I believe Jacobean Walnut in Minwax comes closest to it. That coat would have to be carefully applied and left to dry on its own.

I know all of this stuff from our own personal experiences - lots of trials, lots of errors, lots and lots of research and consulting with a NWFA/NOFMA certified inspector.

And yeah, "purist" wood guys think that wood should stay as close to its natural color as possible. I say phooey to that. Staining/coloring/treating wood to look like other wood has been around for centuries.

Be strong. You'll get there.

Postinano,
Thank you, you are so kind. I agree floor guys are stubborn.
I am going to be firm on this and get the dark floors
I want if I have to magic marker them myself. :) Trying
to be positive.
If my floors looked as beautiful as yours I would not
be so sad.

Erikanh,
Thank you for the digital hugs. I needed them.
What color was your second coat of stain? I agree about
the groaning over laptop pics.
And I am using that line. "As a matter of fact I do
want to go darker." With a firm smile.

Pbrisjar,
You are so right. Prima Donnas! They refused to water pop.
Looking at me wide eyed like I had 4 heads. I am going
to be firm about this. Firm but kind and get the floors
I want. I do think they are lazy. It takes work to go
darker and they seem like they want to be done with this
job and move on. I will add that they have done a
wonderful job just not the color I want.

Writersblock,
You are so kind to chime in. Thank you. Really thank you.
It is so nice to know others understand.

Thanks everyone. I am going to be firm today.
I will let you know how it goes.
~boxerpups

Thanks. You are so kind to say such beautiful things.
You are right I did spend big bucks. Today I feel better.
They came by, they are kind but I can tell they are
annoyed. They did not stay because they have another job.
Or maybe they are punishing me. Who knows at this point.
They are going to come back tonight. They stained a small
closet with Ebony over the Eng Chestnut and Mahognay. To
try to take away from the orangey color.

They were definitely annoyed because they wanted to come
in put the final coat on and be done. I have added
a new factor to this mess. I was friendly, firm and
explained that I have different tastes. I like what
I like. I like dark floors. MY DH is a little annoyed as
he wants his house back and to be able to go to
the kitchen and have a sandwich. Right now the entire
house is covered in plastic with little areas we can walk.
A real annoyance and for me to add a day to this project
is not fun.

There is still a small part of me worried it will look
badly. Perhaps because they are so reluctant that I find
myself feeling insecure. If I had done this before I
know I would be more confident.

Anyway, I so appreciate your caring words and all the
virtual friends on GW. I know I can get a pretty kitchen
and house one day.

~boxerpups

They added ebony to try to take away from the orange tone.
I was not sure that adding a Ebony tinged with Green was
the best idea but they did not like the purple hue idea.

What do you think? Does it look okay? Better? It is
hard to tell with a picture. I like it. I think it is
closer to my inspiration pictures.

I have a deep fear of the entire house looking like a ski
lodge from the 70s. I need to squash that worry and go with my instinct of dark floors.

~boxerpups (Worrying)

I think I'd still have them do a small patch of the Jacobean so you can see. Odd that they won't do the blue/purple hue. That's what all the wood experts I talked to suggested for us. (In our case, the color we stained the cabinets came out way too orangey/yellow.) Hubby didn't want to do a glaze (at least not yet...) so we wound up slightly adjusting the cab stain color. Also, while I had originally loved red mahogany applied with a water pop (and still do), it was just j=highlighting the yellow/orange. So we found the cordovan tint (the one I posted in the other thread) and I just loved it. It really, really tones down the yellow.

You can see it best here;

From New Floor Colors

Here you can see the cabs with the red mahogany (not water popped version):

From Cabinets

This is the best pic I have of all three:

From KiA Puppy Edition

oh yeah and Nova investigating the wonderful smells at nose level ;)

Truly thanks for your help. I can not begin to tell
you how nice it is to have someone understand this
project. I do not know why this floor guy and
his crew are so reluctant to try anything. They are
very much into the wood looking natural. Real wood
guys. Simple folk.

Good idea on the Jacobean wood stain. I am going to push
for that too. It can't hurt to look it over. I will say
I do like this ebony on top of the stain. I keep looking
at at it. It is frustrating because they won't be back
unitl late tonight. They have another job.

I will keep you posted. Thanks again. Cyber dog hugs to Nova.

Re the three latest photos, are they all of the same stain/area? The first one looks lighter.

Actually, your floors remind me a bit of my fence that I'm staining. I have gorgeous dark chocolate hardwood in the house and most definitely wouldn't want the orange wood (oh, sorry, 'natural') brought indoors.

Good luck and keep us posted!

The first issue is that the flooring finishers DID do sample patches for you, and you DID OK going with one of the sample patches.

The second issue is that you now don't like the color when you see a large expanse of it. And, you already approved the color.

The third issue is that they seem unwilling and unable to actually produce the color that you say you want now. I kind of get where they're coming from on this, at least a little, as they've already done the work on the floor from a sample you approved. At this point, they're not looking to do a whole lot of extra work for free and are frustrated with you because it seems as though you really can't make up your mind what you want.

To fix this mess, I'd first sit down with them and reassure them that you are willing to pay the extra money for the extra labor to have the floor turn out exactly as you want it to appear. That's probably the big issue in their minds right now, as they don't want to be doing a bunch of extra work that wasn't orignally planned on without being compensated for it.

Then, I'd have them do some more samples until you are able to get the color you want. Be VERY CLEAR that you will not be allowing them to proceed to the finishing stage until the floor staining phase turns out the way you want. Jacobean would probably be a better choice for what you want than the mix you used, or a combo of Jacobean and Ebony. To reassure all that you won't change your mind again, sleep on the "final choice" patch at least 24 hours before proceeding to the final stain process. IF the floor finishers aren't physically able to produce a color close to what you want, then pay them for services rendered and move on to new guys who CAN give you what you want. Yes, it'll be more money, but if it's that important to you, then it's money well spent.

And, finally, don't overthink this too much. Any fairly medium to dark stain that minimizes the orangeyness of the oak WILL work as a backdrop to those lovely cabinets, so as long as the orange isn't there, it'll be OK. Even if it's a shade lighter than you originally wanted. It'll still read as dark against the light cabinets.

Take a deep breath. Communicate. And drink a glass of wine!

I'm not confrontational and I generally defer to experts, but in many cases these guys just weren't on board with my vision, wanted to take the quicker/easier way out, or just needed to win a battle.

I can't offer better advice than what has been said in above posts regarding floor finishing, but I just wanted to be another supportive voice telling to you endure the temporary discomfort you will feel when holding your ground and focus on the months/years you will be living with the floor. It's not a small detail and if you don't like it it will haunt you that you didn't add just a few more days to your project to get it done to your taste.

Sending good thoughts your way...

Livewireoak,
You are correct. Overthinking this! This is 2000 sq feet.
More than 1/2 of my first floor. The orange clashes with
my red leather sofa.

I was not clear on GW, Please know they have been
compensated and will be further when we make changes.
We are paying extra for more stain and their time. This
was agreed up front when the said that I wanted to go
darker. Before they even put the stain down. Yes, even
then I said I think we need to go darker. They said they
wanted me to try the mix first. Getting GW support helped
confront or express what I wanted better.

Ironically only one guy (mike)the detail sander man.
Said to me this morning.

"I knew on the drive over you didn't like the stain. "

How did you know I asked him. Mike said that he kept
listening to me ask last night before they left.
"Will it get darker? Does it need another coat? It seems
light to me, sort of orange." Of course the guys said
when all the furniture was back it would look fine. I knew
in my heart it would not. So I broke down and cried alone
with my post on GW.

I thnk these guys are great. They just have different
taste than I. They prefer wood in it's natural state
with little to no stain. I like color and creativity.

But the key point you made is that I am over thinking this.
All will be well.
Thank you. And yes I will have that glass of wine.

Good luck. I know how you feel. I have cried about many things on my building project. It is TOUGH!!

Your inspiration pics are lovely and I'm sure your new kitchen will be too. Can I hijack your thread for a sec and ask whose kitchen the one is with the three barstools with the double x's on the back? I never would have thought that I would like a sink that didn't face a window, but it works in that situation and may be the solution for me.

Good luck!

Dinajo,
You hit the nail on the head. "A wood purist" and wow
did he let me know it. I wish he were a salesman and
not so worried about the wood.

Frank59,
Excellent idea for future projects.
I really wanted to keep my paint colors. You will see
below the updated stain looks far better with my color choices.

Kelleg,
I do not know how people do this with such difficult
sub contractors. I could never build a house. Never
because I would be in tears all the time. I do not
have the natural calmness needed for such endeavors.
I have such admiration for those who build their
dream home. Everytime someone tells me they are building
a house I am going to look at them with a sense
of awe and sheer respect.
I think it looks better. I wanted your floors but
I am going to settle for mine. : ) Thanks so much.

Gbsim,
Hijack away, That photo is a House Beautiful photo
from a magazine I have. But it is also found on
Google images. I do not have a link, because I scanned
the magazine more than a year ago for my pc folder.
I will look later to see what month and year. But
I should warn you it might be from 2005.

Everyone,

Below are my updated floors. I like them much better.
It is definitley darker then my inspiration pics.
But these guys were very annoying. They did not want to
do a patch of Jacobean or any other color. Clearly
they were up to their eyebrows in annoyance with me.
And yes I paid extra for their time, supplies you name
it, I am going to have a scary bill.
So it is darker but I LOVE it. I do. I think it is more
me. And no orange.

My DH said that the Boss is the most stubborn man he has
ever encountered. The boss a kind person was not happy
with my choice. Telling me it looks like drift wood. Why
would anyone put black on their floor. Later he agreed
is looked better than orange.

For those who want to stain floors. I will tell you that
I learned Stain is not like paint. You can not choose
a color and assume it will look like that. Wood is a
creature of change. Everything has an effect on the
wood. Lights, previous colors, how the stain is applied,
and how the wood is treated.

Thanks again for your support GWebers.
~boxerpups

Erika

A side note: all your inspiration pics are dark floors with white walls/cabinets which highlight that contrast. The floor color will look different with red/toffee walls.

Rubyfig,
You are right and my best friend pointed this out to
months ago. White is paired with the dark floors in
every magazine. I think the floors will look okay with the
current wall colors. I was planning on getting rid of
the red/cranberry but now it looks kinda of neat. I am
giving it a few months before I change it.
I have lots of light coming into my house during the day
so I need to study it for a while.

Dinajo,
Yes, I am way toooooooo sensitive. You have no idea.
I am learning to be stronger. Everytime I look at my floors
I am going to remember I got what I wanted. : )

Thanks so much everyone. GW ROCKS!
~boxerpups

Wow! It's great that you got what you wanted, but I think it's even greater than you won a bit of a personal strength challenge too!

Kudos to standing your ground and a great lesson for client and contractor. It may be an unplanned expense, but well worth the peace of mind moving forward. Thanks for that and will take that with me on my adventure through my project. ;)

Frank59, You are so sweet. You did not offend at all.
In fact I am still not sure the colors will stay. I
repaint often and may change the colors within the next
4 months. And any time you need support on your kitchen
remodel journey, don't hesitate to ask. GW has been the
best support ever.

Skeetie219,
I can not agree with you more about money and expectations.
For me, the floors are a little darker than I expected but
this is because the floor people had been trying to talk me
out of dark for so long. I love the floors.
Yes, worth the aggravation and money.

Pluckymama,
The picture is from a company in New Jersey. I found the
picture from the web. But you can go right to their site.
Isn't the kitchen lovely?.
Enjoy.

http://www.constructionnewjersey.com/nj-remodeling-design-kitchen.html
http://www.constructionnewjersey.com/remodeling/kitchen_11.jpg

Oh, I couldn't agree more with the value of GW. Even though I was in the kitchen/bath industry for a short time years ago and understood that changes since would be inevitable, I never realized the depth of those changes...like, uh, spending an hour to make sure I'm not making a mistake with my choice in a soap dispenser( and no, I didn't forget the Never-MT!!). I believe I'm officially in the WWGWD(What Would Garden Web Do) club now and couldn't repay the $$ I've saved from this forum.

I bet that I learn one lesson each time I get on board, such as this thread has provided. Soon I'll be posting and seeking input from the talent pool exhibited on this board for sure. ;)

At least now you have the luxury of a wider color palette to choose from with those beautiful floors you wanted.