Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
melissastar

Are we making the perfect the enemy of the good?

melissastar
12 years ago

Does anyone else sometimes wonder if we, as a group, are a bit too willing to sacrifice too much by insisting on near perfection? I've been pondering this question for a while now, as I have read over many postings, such as Dusterella's recent query about the house she and her DH are hoping to buy in Portland and the recent thread on putting a potty in a laundry room.

Marcolo (and I don't mean to be picking on you, Marcolo, it's just that this example, makes my point so well) encouraged Dusterella NOT to try to buy what looks like a great old Portland house that she and DH loved, because her budget didn't stretch to doing the kitchen right. But how many of us have had the luxury of having great kitchens from the get go? I would venture to say that MOST of the U.S. population, if not most of GWers on this forum, have put up with less than ideal kitchens for a good portion of our lives. Some may be fortunate enough to get them in their first or second homes, but most don't and some never do.

Similarly, there have been multiple discussions (including one when I first posted my remodeling plans) about the proximity of potties to kitchens. Often posters are urged to scrap their plans for a much desired 1/2 bath on a main floor, if it can't be optimally placed...and as in the recent thread about a toilet in a laundry room...posters are told it will damage resale value. Well, I can tell you that when I had a young child (and probably even now) I'd have found a toilet convenient to the backyard a major PLUS in a house I contemplated buying if it were practically anywhere but in the middle of the kitchen or living room.

It's all about trade-offs. And it sometimes seems to me that with our obsessions with gorgeous, perfectly functioning kitchens...and frankly, with some really spectacular examples of such paragons on this site...as a group, we may not always be sensitive to those tradeoffs and to what most folks IRL need, want and can afford.

I do hope this doesn't start off some heated debate, and it certainly isn't meant to accuse anyone of anything. It's just something I've been pondering and wondering if anyone else sometimes feels the same way.

Comments (151)

  • marcolo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It is exactly what I want because I designed for form and not function.

    beagles, see, this is exactly why I like your threads and answer them. I was all set to hate on you. I'm a cook! (Well, at least an adequate one.) I care about food! I should hate people who spend gobs of money on a kitchen they don't use!

    But then you came along. You were direct, and told us exactly what you needed. You asked for completely ridiculous things--a tiled-in dog-washing station? What?!?--but you kind of new they were ridiculous. But they were fun for you, and your fun was infectious. Most importantly, you never once made us spin in circles for hours trying to design the perfect prep space for you--you said, stop! Tell me if my moldings look weird!

    I know the Proactivs want to believe there's a big clique of perky-busted meanies itching to break into their houses at midnight and install unwanted prep sinks while stealing their only good-looking boyfriends ever. But the reality is, most of us are just tired of the bulls**t. Just lay out there what you really want, and we'll try to give it to you as best as we can. Just stop feeding us lines about pretending to want something you don't.

  • palimpsest
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is why I posted a thread some time ago and stated that perhaps we should think about answering the question that was Actually Asked, first rather than reciting a litany of every problem we perceive.

    And, I mostly got thoroughly chastised for how "irresponsible" that would be.

    But I still try to answer the salient question first, and then bring up that a range hood covered with silk Austrian shades might not be a good idea.

    So, for example, once I figured what Beagle's project was about I continued to browbeat her about mouldings through several threads because that's what it was about. And that's how is should be.imo.

  • davidro1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've sometimes done this, in a sense, when i post to ask if permission can be granted to allow other (broader) subjects to be broached.

    Forum dynamics change all the time.

  • mindstorm
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ... I think it would be useful to focus on these assumptions, and see if they're true or not. But it seems like every time we open a discussion like that, the big-bottomed Proactive set has to chime in with their bitter, long-nurtured grievances against the cheerleaders,

    GW hasn't been capable of an analysis like this in years. The phraseology of the rest of the quote typifies why. ;-) Probably also reaffirms the old saw that "all cheerleaders are airheads".

    Q.E.D.

    :-)

    Pal used to have these quasi-analytical what-if exercises on beyond-the-norm scenarios and while I wasn't knowledgeable enough to participate in them all, I really enjoyed them. But for some reason, because his use-cases or his parameters involved straying outside the GW-box-of-design-rules, they would just cause constipated agitation instead of contemplative musing.

    We'd also have to specify how many cooks and how many lookie-loos.
    And then there's the ''what are you cooking'' and ''how do you cook'' parameter.

    Bingo! These are pretty critical parameters to a viable design, and while I don't claim to have hawkishly studied all (or even a small number, come to think of it) of posts here, I've almost never seen anyone posit guidance or seem even aware of such params.

    Oh as far as the venture you're going to embark on to design the absolutely best, most perfect kitchen, ... um, I hate corners. Ergo, your best, perfect kitchen won't be palatable to at least one and therefore won't be able to achieve universal acclaim for perfection.

    Further, I disagree with marcolo : a corner pantry ain't pretty either.

    ROTFL.

    Pal, before I'd leave to search high and low for the Austrian silk covered range hood, let me just say that I remember your commonsensical advice (about answering the question that was asked rather than describing all the ways that kitchen wouldn't work in my house with my 14 husbands, 2.65 kids and 1.33 pets) and I recall being surprised that something so elementally tautological should prove contentious.

  • paulines
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My prior home's kitchen remodel job wasn't perfect enough, so I sold the house.

  • marcolo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is why I posted a thread some time ago and stated that perhaps we should think about answering the question that was Actually Asked

    The punishment for doing that is fierce.

    If someone asks, will a toilet in the middle of the laundry room deter buyers, one must post "No! It will be timeless! So pretty! Do what you love!" Never post an actual opinion, especially one based on experience. The praise circle might get broken.

    Same with someone who asks, "Should I buy this house with a wretched kitchen if I only have ten cents to fix it?" Don't answer that question directly. You'll awaken an army of yoga-practicing, soy-sucking, Oprah-watching Manolo-clod demons waiting to pierce your neck with perfectly veneered teeth. Instead say, "Yes! It will be timeless! So pretty! Do what you love!"

    Probably also reaffirms the old saw that "all cheerleaders are airheads".

    The fat-bottomed girl clique were no geniuses, either, IIRC.

  • plllog
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My almost perfect kitchen isn't perfect enough for you? (she asked winsomely, batting her eyelashes and pouting).

    See, it wouldn't be for Buehl--the DW is in the middle of the cooking zone. She wants it on the edge so the kids can empty while she's making dinner. I would never consider combining the two activities (as in, "Oy, ye slobs, go empty yon dishwasher if you want to eat" called to the idlers 15 minutes before it's time to start dinner). For me, the middle is perfect because it's next to the sink (not so in old kitchen!), two steps to the kitchen dishes cupboards (no reaching across it to put things away, which would happen if it were shoved to the side), two steps to the baking center to put away utensils. Room to walk around open door to put things away in island. It's perfect! But all wrong for Buehl.

    The less focused questions don't bother me so much. I tend to ask a bunch of questions in that kind of case trying to pin the poster down. I will start with some of the truisms and personal bugaboos, if I see the problems, like a recent layout with 36" aisles where the poster wanted help putting in island seating. She didn't want to change any of these givens. I'm not going to beat her up for it. If she can make it work and be happy with it, more power to her, but I also didn't continue with her because I don't know how to do what she wants and have no good advice. Is aisle width a dogmatic issue? I guess it is, but a lot of it is just good sense. People rip out kitchens with 36" aisles because they hate them. People love "wide open" kitchens with 45"-54", but don't really like aisles above 54", which are called "too wide". People don't often complain about aisles in the 42"-44" range, and people made do with 39"-41" without too much difficulty. Is this an accumulation of GW wisdom? Yes. Should we beat up on someone who doesn't want to do it this way? No. Should we tell them? Isn't that why we're here?

    And I too love Beagle's threads. Who wouldn't love such a specific point of view? I was really disappointed when she got talked out of the modified scallop. I rooted for that one. ;) And by talked out of, I mean she chose the more conventional design based on her own evaluation of the many responses she got. Again, this is how it's supposed to work. I wasn't bothered that my own advice, encouraging the more is more aesthetic (or warning about the fingerprints on the mirrors) wasn't taken. Ya put it out there, and people decide on what's best for them.

    I wish that happened more in real life. I have an electronical thing box (just a closed lump) on the wall in my studio that blocks a cabinet. The installer said he wanted to mount it at window level. When I said, no, I wanted it low, and there would be room for the bookcases with it down there, he just put it in. If he'd said it was a big fat box that wouldn't let me open the cabinet fully, I'd have done it differently!! Someone has to tell you!!! That's what we do when we say the stool and chair legs will get caught in each other and trip people if the aisle is too narrow. At least, that's what we're supposed to be doing.

    The GW software, by being so old and clunky, forces us to repeat topics afresh regularly. This makes the threads lively and dynamic, and personally directed to the nuances of a particular person's questions. I don't mind the umpteenth one or two bowl question. If nothing else, it gives folks a chance to participate and interact, and to make a connection.

    I've been online since the early '80's. Forums used to mostly be like this one. Sharing communities which were mostly polite and well spoken. The web changed that and even when I do find forums that are polite and well spoken, they're often not communities. The ones that are are very small groups with a narrow focus (a small group of plumbers, marines, etc.). Otherwise, they're very impersonal and disconnected. I attribute a big part of that to the fact that unlike this frustrating place, their topics can be edited, stickied, and continue on forever. They don't have the life and dynamics that we do and are kind of sad places to visit.

    AngAx, I'm glad Marcydc posted your link. I did see your thread when it first went up. It was one of the ones I was thinking of where a lurker did post a finished thread that felt like it was from our community not an outsider showing off.

    I only brought up my peeve because Marcolo was talking about it. The point he was making was a good one. There are some of these show-offs that really do skew the norm, and this thread started with the intimidation of the perfect.

    But even more, to demonstrate how this place works when it works well is that all the folks who don't mind the drive by posters have given good reasons why those don't bother them. I would never advocate preventing someone from doing a drive by--as I said, I just stop looking--but if any lurkers are intimidated because I said so, I hope they noticed that Marcydc, Mtnrdredux and the others have said that they like them.

    Have to agree with Mindstorm (whom I also admire--it's mutual) that there's too much group think going on, and too many who aren't willing to talk about the elephant. That goes back to my speculation about how the new search algorithms have affected who finds and joins us and how that changes our community.

    BTW, two things you can do to keep your photos from being as widely seen elsewhere is 1) Take bad pictures. It's pretty easy to remove a watermark, much harder to edit out the junk on the counter, strange angle, and bad lighting. Even if thieves would like to claim your kitchen for their own work, they're not going to steal your bad pictures. The second thing is to use incomprehensible titles. "Img_0753.jpg" is going to bring a lot fewer hits than "New crema marfil with cherry cabinets.jpg". If you need to name if for yourself, try "newcrmmrflchercab.jpg" Again, not the kind of thing people Google on very often. :)

    I don't mean to rant. I type fast. You'd never know I got a pity C in high school typing class. Mrs. Fox would be proud, though I don't know if she'd read down this far. :)

  • beaglesdoitbetter1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, now I'm insulted. ;) Good thing I didn't post about the beagle chandelier I'm having hand painted for the room with the tiled in dog tub from someone on etsy to match my dogs color markings :) I'll post pictures though so everyone can see how helpful their advice was on my dog room layout :)

    BTW palimpsest, I never updated that thread about the gathering room bookcases either b/c the thread fell down before I made the final decision, but we did go with one flute instead of two on your advice :)

  • plllog
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Marcolo, haven't you heard? Cheerleaders are serious athletes nowadays, and fat bottomed girls make the rockin' world go 'round. :)

  • avadoone
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think I have been looking around GW and occ. posting for a year. This thread makes me fearful of being judged when I post something... I will get over it though.

    There is a lot to be addressed in this thread but I will tell you what jumped out to me.

    I posted a picture of my finished kitchen. I did this because I happened upon this site while researching a back splash. I ended up discovering (even thought i live 40 mins from the quarry) Alabama White marble because of this site. I wanted to post pictures so that anyone else doing research could see pictures. I wasn't looking for a pat on the back. Now I am feeling a bit ashamed and misunderstood.

    I only say this so y'all might think twice before making assumptions about the intent of a poster.

    I also find it annoying when threads are swamped with personal attacks. Attacking someone's grammar is just silly. Nobody is attempting to create some fine piece of literature. Come on! Let's try to be nice :)

  • beaglesdoitbetter1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    plllog I actually didn't get talked out of the modified scallop. I made a list minute switch when I sent the picture to the cabinet maker.

    One flute, double scallop was the final choice.

  • plllog
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Avadoone, if you're reading this thread, you're not a drive by.

  • plllog
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh, COOL!!! Beagles, I really think it's going to look good. And I think your beagle painted lamp is going to be cute too.

  • melissastar
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Marcolo: You seem to feel that I "called you out" in the original posting of this thread, and perhaps some others agree. For that, I want to publicly apologize to you. I did intend this to be a discussion about the collective and not you specifically. If you look at my original post, I cited your advice to Dusterella, but did not characterize it or you negatively. But whatever my intentions, if I was not artful or kind or broke protocol in any way I sincerely apologize.

    That being said, I'm prepared now to risk the opprobrium of all the kind, generous souls who contribute to this forum and possible banishment by the powers that be. I am going to call you out on this:

    Please stop referring to others on this forum as "acned fat girls" and the like. It's childish name calling, and needlessly insulting. In the year or more that I've been reading this forum, I have seen no other example of such meanspirited, deliberately insulting language.

    P_L_E_A_S_E----J_U_S_T____ S_T_O_P______I_T

  • caryscott
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes.

    I've burned out on the Forum before and had to take a self-imposed sabbatical, it happens. I really appreciate all the great ideas and information available but however much I like some of my fellow posters I knew the day there was a thread where posters were commiserating about how their cleaning ladies were not cleaning their new kitchens to their satisfaction I knew that I was never going to really belong.

    In a forum where the mantra is "do what you love" it becomes apparent pretty quickly that there are some things you shouldn't really love and a lot of those things are, as it turns out, are quite functional, aesthetically pleasing and affordable.

    Maybe it's wrong to love those things (or is that just what GW is telling me?) but you can make a nice, functional and attractive kitchen from them so I'm going to stick around, post pics and talk about the kitchen I helped make with them until I do my own (with many of those same materials) and then I'll do the same with it.

  • shelayne
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You see, this forum is mis-named. The actual topic of this forum is ''how to spend an absurd amount of money on products and services that we didn't initially know anything about while eating uncooked ramen in the basement for months and have enough cash left over to pay the divorce lawyer.'' A daunting challenge, to be sure. To get through it, you have to be strong. The strong end up with the groovy, functional, non-cliche kitchens. The weak die on the road to Bataan, clutching shards of Rainforest granite and a few broken subway tiles, crying ''but tell me it will be beautiful'' as the buzzards, excuse me, the contractors, feast on their entrails. You have to be strong and decisive. Of course, being dazzlingly thin and rich can go a long way too.

    Johnliu, you always crack me up! Thanks for that!

  • sallysue_2010
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    OK - I would like to propose that there is no such thing as a drive by. I would like to propose that there are no real people out there who post pictures of their actual kitchens on this forum just to show off. If they post pictures, I imagine it is because they feel - for whatever reason - some sort of kinship with other people who post, and they would like to share. I cannot imagine any other intent, unless they are designers or contractors and they are drumming up business.

    I would also like to propose that there is no pressure to meet some standard of GW perfect. There is no evidence of a gang, no clique, no groupthink, no censoring of individual posts that challenge the status quo. There is a lot of joking about white kitchens, so if that is the standard, then the standard bearers have to have pretty thick skin.

    Rather than read uncivilty into the unspoken, it seems preferable to assume that deep down people are all good at heart. My space has none of the qualities of a fashionable kitchen: no white anything, no stacked cabs, no pulldown faucet, no granite, sorta cheap tile. I have never found anything here but kindness and hospitality and (fortunately) humor. May it ever be thus ;)

  • John Liu
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    One of these faucets will turn good to perfect in a jiffy.

  • jessicaml
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This forum could use some animated smileys.

    @john: wide-eyed blinking smiley
    Where on earth did you find that??

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Once in a while we have philosophical threads like these, in amongst the highly practical and quite specific posts.

    Tone is so hard to read here, so let me just say that it is important to me not to offend, and so I hope i do not offend, and please interpret my comments in that context.

    I think these philosophical posts are about a desire to engage more personally and create more of a community. I think people post these musings because there are other posters who they would actually like to engage in a conversation. I wouldn't say they are lonely or Weineresque, but merely that they enjoy the community and are trying to develop more of a relationship with the boards. They are board-curious. I myself find it interesting to get to know the cast of characters here better, so I read these types of posts.

  • jessicaml
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I wish this thread hadn't started by naming a particular post, because I think that helped lead to contention and offense (though as mentioned above, many other philosophical threads have done the same while trying to avoid specifics).

    However, mtnrdredux, I like your interpretation of community better than my earlier characterization of hand-wringing. It helps explain the many, many directions this thread has taken...like a long table at a dinner party, with multiple, lively discussions taking place at once.

  • sallysue_2010
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    mtnrdredux--agree completely. I would like to see more philosophy posts, just because I appreciate the voices of so many people on this board. In fact, there is not a single voice I DON'T like - they are all varied and interesting. This sense of community was common in the early days of message boards, but unusual now.

    LOL on Weineresque - if anyone posts a picture of themselves grabbing their crotch in front of their Subzero, I WILL reconsider my stance of unconditional positive regard.

  • marcolo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Please stop referring to others on this forum as "acned fat girls" and the like. It's childish name calling, and needlessly insulting. In the year or more that I've been reading this forum, I have seen no other example of such meanspirited, deliberately insulting language.

    P_L_E_A_S_E----J_U_S_T____ S_T_O_P______I_T

    Just so everyone knows, I have been subjected to five or ten stalking-like personal emails from mellissastar just today alone. I have asked her to stop harrassing me, but she won't.

    This forum is great in some ways, but it's the Internet, and there are a lot of freaks out there.

  • plllog
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Interesting idea. I disagree about the motivation. As one of the musers, I'd say, rather, it is de facto a community, as discussed in a seminal way in Howard Rheingold's The Virtual Community (1993, rev. 2000). I don't think it's about developing a "greater relationship with the boards", but it may be that those of us who are caught up in this discussion may be reacting to a shift that creates some kind of reaction in us that the community is dissolving, or at least morphing into something entirely different.

    BTW, what does "Weineresque" mean?

  • beaglesdoitbetter1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    pllog, that question might be best unanswered, but here you go.
    http://gawker.com/5806545/did-anthony-weiner-tweet-pic-of-his-weiner

  • marcolo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    a shift that creates some kind of reaction in us that the community is dissolving, or at least morphing into something entirely different.

    Today I received multiple weirdo love/hate emails from Mellissastar. Sadly, that is no longer unusual. In the past few months, my inbox has been clogged with vicious, weird I love you/I hate you mail from random odd Gardenweb posters. After all the years I've been reading and posting here, that's a new phenomenon.

    That has certainly colored the tone of my responses here, and perhaps I should've shared that information sooner. Some who I respect have remarked to me that my writing isn't as fun or light-hearted as it was, and I probably should've let them in on the whole story. It would've explained a lot. Unfortunately, even if I "stepped away," I still would get the harassment of the anonymous unhinged people that I deal with every day.

  • harrimann
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    marcolo, can't you just adjust your settings so people can't send you e-mail?

  • marcolo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    No, mcmjilly, I cannot. The software on this site is crap, and it just doesn't work. I know how to do it, but it doesn't function.

  • melissastar
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Marcolo: This is extremely unfortunate and now quite ugly. I have sent you a total of three emails. You responded to each in a conversational manner. In my last, I said there was no need to respond. You did anyway. Each email I sent you was an attempt to deal privately with the very issue you finally forced me to make public.

  • marcolo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I finally forced you to what? Admit that you wrote me multiple emails as long as War & Peace to list out all my personal psychological faults? To which I responded "anyway" with an email that had exactly one word--"Enough"--even though you dictated that you could insult me as much as you liked without allowing me any response?

    The Internet is full of weirdos, and you are one of them. Get away from me, stop emailing me or I will have you banned from this site. Any response from you at this point is over the line, and will be treated as such. Leave me alone, weirdo.

  • vitamins
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This had been quite an interesting thread with several interesting, though differing, insights and I had enjoyed following it, but somehow it now seems to have dissolved into a personal battle. This is unfortunate to say the least.

  • aliris19
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Holy cow - what is going on here? I haven't been reading, but noticed the "132" responses.

    I just finished dealing with my girls, trying -oh trying - to get my older just to "exit".

    Without having the faintest inkling what lies above my post, it does sound like an example of 'exiting' as an excellent strategy. Is it possible simply to let this thread die now?

    Not trying to flame the fire; just trying to douse it. You can come back to the issues another time; let the heat lay down.

  • powertoolpatriot
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is hilarious! Beats those stodgy old soap operas any day.
    Keep on a posting!

  • doggonegardener
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow, and I thought this thread might make it to the 150 mark. Guess not.

  • sallysue_2010
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well. There goes THAT Kumbaya moment.

    In the words of the great Bill Maher, how about a New Rule?

    NEW RULE: There are times when people should be very careful about how they word their opinions. Parents of teenagers, Jungian therapists, presidential candidates and hairdressers should all step cautiously when offering advice. People posting responses on kitchen message boards should not. Be advised that strong opinions and politically incorrect metaphors may be par for the course. That said, we do have forum standards for photography.*

    *If you are Anthony Weiner, please send all photos to moderators for pre-screening.

  • honorbiltkit
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Marcolo has gone from reporting on milk being poured over salad to threatening to unilaterally get other forum members banned. I'm sorry, aliris, but this does not seem to me to be a good point to truncate this thread.

    Those of us who have been around for a few years know that a handful of posters to this site give excellent specific advice or suggest fruitful alternative ways of thinking about a dilemma but occasionally provide this value in ways that are needlessly imperious.

    I have developed a thickish skin, and if the insight or information is good enough, I don't mind if it seems doctrinaire. By contrast, someone who has just discovered this forum via a google search and innocently chimes in to seek advice ought not get slapped across the face, no matter how ill-formed any of us thinks his or inquiry may be. And on this point, I am willing to be doctrinaire: Don't be unkind. If you think you are being invited to suffer fools, skip over the bloody thread. Try not to act like a sociopath.

    I hate insomnia.

  • aliris19
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey Honorbil - I actually agree and I apologize for my call of earlier. It is not insomnia that drives me to this idiocy but procrastination: I am abashed to report I have now read all 132+ threads above this one. And now having a better idea of what I was nattering on about, I see there isn't a concentrated all-out personal war going on as the last post I read had implied. Something more off-scene seems to have transpired and really, your point about thick skin is probably more apropos than "exit".

    Please, Melissa and Marcolo: forgive me. I blundered without knowing.

    Melissa -- Marcolo is kinda problematic sometimes. Sorry Marcolo, but I'm guessing you wouldn't really disagree about this. I think he's pretty good at consciously or otherwise figuring out just how to get under your skin. He got me going some-good about how I was a complete fool of an idiot to have purchased cabinets in the way that I did and that the next stop was skid row for me for sure. In fact, precious little in this life has *ever* kept me awake at night but that sure did. Marcolo, you seriously disturbed my sleep. No one does that! (I sleep so little that almost nothing can prevent me from it when I hit the hay).

    But Melissa, I don't think you should give him that power. He tries to make generic, helpful points, in a highly personal way. They can be unkind. And very funny as a side-benefit, if you can permit yourself the guilty giggle.

    I think the thing to do -- and Marcolo I hope you'll forgive me for 'discussing you' like this 'in front of you' (!) - the thing to do is to chime in occasionally and support someone Marcolo may have inadvertently or otherwise attacked, explain his predilection and try to help them see the value in the conflagration. Marcolo seems inordinately pleased with his propensity for stirring up controversy and, well, cats don't change their stripes, or spots or whatever. Melissa, if it bothers you, I suggest wandering around behind Marcolo like a shadow and diving in for a quick cyber-hug as he swipes another ingenuous newbie (or otherwise). That would be a public service that would help everyone. Marcolo wouldn't have to disappear, which would be a bad thing for one and all, and you could defuse the sting of his otherwise often salient and cogent if hurtful remarks.

    I'd like to say one more gratuitous thing: this community sports an inordinate number of extraordinarily articulate, intelligent -- and funny -- folks. Centered around kitchen remodeling? . Golly; who knew? Marcolo, your perspective and way of expressing yourself is unparalleled. It's not particularly nice, often, but incredibly entertaining and usually insightful. And I believe it is intended very nicely all the same. I personally, and I believe we all, owe you a debt of gratitude. Though I have to say, you can be deeply upsetting.

    Melissa, I hope you'll reconsider leaving just on account of Marcolo. He's just too singular for such a generalized response.

  • palimpsest
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    #139?

    The existing kitchen in one house I considered.

  • palimpsest
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ten more to go L&G, let's close it down.

  • caryscott
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Palimpsest

    In hindsight were you being brave or foolish considering that one? Any regret about not going for it? I love the drawer pulls (seriously).

  • never_ending
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    RE: Are we making the perfect the enemy of the good?

    I wanted perfect~ but living in "real" Rural, America I've had to settle for "good enough"! Having the internet at my fingers only delayed the "good enough" realization for me and boggled my mind on choices.

    "Good enough" to me, means better than I would have had without this forum, and a good dose of realism thrown in for good measure. And really and MOST SADLY when it comes down to it my new kitchen will still get dirty...why must that happen??? I only hope my messmaker's stay out of the house long enough so I could sort of stage my kitchen (on the day it would ever get finished!)without peanut butter smeared on a cabinet front or a cereal box left out open on a counter with leftover milk slopped next to it! =D Maybe that way I can look back on my pic's with fond memories of when my kitchen was "perfect"!

    ...besides the up side of "good enough" is "good enough" means I will not feel as guilty when I change out cabinet hardware, backsplash, or my butcherblock counters in 5 years when I am sick of them!

    BTW I don't post often because my questions are usually answered in a search or I wonder if a pic of another sheetrocked wall will inspire anyone besides me. =)

  • palimpsest
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    First I thought I was brave.

    I looked at it after the elderly man moved out and decided I was being foolish. He was living in a near-shell with knob and tube wiring and galvanized plumbing pipes. It looked a *lot worse after he moved out.

    I just didn't have the budget to do it right.

    I regret what the house turned into which is a flip with all the 2000s must haves and a single staircase remaining from the original house.

    But I have absolutely no regrets about not buying it. I would have been its slave.

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Go figure. And I really liked her kitchen,if I recall? Sort of arts and crafts, Bal'mer row house w a cool tile roof?

  • caryscott
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It's too bad about the flip but not hard to believe it would have been a brutal taskmaster. I appreciate you sharing the pic and your thoughts. When I was looking (if you can call buying the first place you actually visit "looking") I wanted, and got, a fairly horrible kitchen but fixing the kitchen you posted (not to mention the rest) would have been too daunting a prospect for me.

  • formerlyflorantha
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    How 'bout them Twins?

  • davidro1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    an appreciation of technology that allows too much to happen, and makes people feel one way or the other depending on sparks between people.

    Here is a link that might be useful: the clear thread

  • caryscott
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm not a fan of the Twins. I'm not sure if it's because I never liked Full House or because I can't squeeze myself into their clothing lines.

    You were referring to the Olsen Twins right?

  • davidro1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ok, since time is up, let's agree we "have" something here. bye for now.

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    go in peace

  • bigjim24
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Woot! Woot!

    I've been busy for a few days and came back to this. Yikes! I don't have time to read it all but...

    LL - The perfect kitchen is the one where we enjoy cooking :) YES!

    marcolo - I like that you are direct and to the point. We are all busy - if I want someone to be nice and adore my every decision I'd run it by my golden retriever. I need help - serious help and this forum (which I found after some decisions were made) helps!

    I don't respond to a lot of advice postings b/c to be honest, I have no idea what I'M doing. There are days when I feel like I am screwing up my own kitchen - I don't want to screw up anyone else's. I agree with many others here. I don't post often because this forum is so good - the question has already been answered.

    Perfect? - not even close with my budget. But it will be the best it can be thanks to your help!