Henckels are a really good knife and a little more affordable than Wusthof. I'd highly suggest skipping on a big set and buy a few high quality knives that can be used for more than one job. They take up less space too!

I have a few older Chicago Cutlery knives that are really pretty decent and used to be quite affordable. They keep an edge well and are very easy to sharpen. But I don't know if the quality is still the same as it was.

When I broke a chef's knife (the one I us daily) trying to split a squash, I went to a local cooking specialty store that carries knives like Henckel and Wusthof. I didn't know what to get, and the woman there suggested I hold it and see which one felt like it would fit better. So I suggest that - hold them. The ones I use most are a chef's knife, a serrated bread knife, a filet knife, and a couple of paring knives. Think about the ones you use - you might not need a set, and good knives are really expensive. My chef's knife was something like $75 or $80. i do keep them in a block. I have a block for the big ones on the counter, and a block in the utensil drawer for the smaller ones.

I've seen infomercials with Emeril or Wolfgang Puck selling knife sets. I wonder if they are as good as they claim. If so, they are a good deal.

Personally I love the cheap Victornox knives you can find at restaurant supply stores. They are super sharp and their grips are textured so you keep a good grip even when cutting up wet/juicy stuff. We do have one Wustof chef knife that has a great weight to it. We use a blade safe/protector for all our knives so we don't need a big block taking up room. Usually those knife sets give you items you really don't need....including a bread knife that's too short.

Here is a link that might be useful: Victornox at Amazon

Strongly suggest Wustof Trident knives. If you take care of them (no dishwasher and good sharpening) they will last a lifetime.

Sounds like budget is a concern. Suggest buying a block and they buying them piece by piece. Start with Chef's and a paring knife, then a 5" serrated utility. Those are the 3 knives you will use for 80% of your cooking.

Williams Sonoma always has great sales at Christmas. But, if you have a local high end kitchen store, they may have refurbished (returned) knives for a significant discount. I've purchased them for some of my tangential knives and they are as good as new.

But Texas' option is also not a bad idea and is backed up by pro reviews
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/693738-Best-Commercial-Kitchen-Knives

We have been happy with the Wusthof knives we bought 11 years ago. But I would agree on holding them - go to a local kitchen place with a few lines and feel them. They should fit well in your hand.

Just buy what you need to start. We use the Santoku knife the most for prep work, a large chef knife, a bread knife, and a paring knife regularly. Those are probably a good basic assortment.

We also have a small serrated knife (tomato knife?) and filet knife that we use, but not necessary to start. Plus one odd shaped one from Cutco that is a recent purchase, but we love it.

I can't keep our knife block clean, but it was literally in the prep area and within inches of both the range and sink. We have a new drawer insert ready to try out as soon as I can get my drawer liner in!

Strongly suggest Wustof Trident knives. If you take care of them (no dishwasher and good sharpening) they will last a lifetime.

Sounds like budget is a concern. Suggest buying a block and they buying them piece by piece. Start with Chef's and a paring knife, then a 5" serrated utility. Those are the 3 knives you will use for 80% of your cooking.

Williams Sonoma always has great sales at Christmas. But, if you have a local high end kitchen store, they may have refurbished (returned) knives for a significant discount. I've purchased them for some of my tangential knives and they are as good as new.

But Texas' option is also not a bad idea and is backed up by pro reviews
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/693738-Best-Commercial-Kitchen-Knives

Don't get one of those sets. They are too many knives to own and take up room, and several in the set will be knives you don't need and won't use. A 14-piece set! What all kind of knives number 14 of them?

For your $150, you should seek out quality, not quantity. You just need an 8" chefs knife, boning knife, 10" serrated knife, and 2 paring knives. I agree with Texaspenny about the Victorinox. Victorinox has been winning the Cook's Illustrated Magazine's Knife Testings for years. Though my chef's knife is Wusthof, all my other knives are Victorinox. Love them!

You said you want to keep under $150. I am CERTAIN that if you get 14 knives for that amount of money, they will not last.

Victorinox 8" Chefs Knife = $31

Victorinox boning knife = $19

Victorinox 10" Serrated Knife = $26

Victorinox 3-1/4" paring knife = $8

Victorinox 4" paring knife = $8

Total = $92, which leaves money in your budget for a knife holder. Either a block, or what I like is a knife insert for a drawer. I don't like a knife block taking up room on the counter and being in the way.

I'm another one on the Victorinox band wagon. Get them online or at restaurant supply stores. And avoid sets that only cost $150 for 14 knives. Get a nice set of steak knives and a couple of the Victorinox knives to start with, then add pieces as needed. If you don't love them, they are still useful knives and you've saved money and can still buy others. Instead of dropping too many dollars on a set that you wind up hating.

We did our kitchen 11 years ago (I've been here under another name since 2000) and I have a $5 magnetic rack from Ikea for the most used knives.

Maybe I should post an 11-years-after report!

PS, never buy serrated knives for anything except a cheap grapefruit knife. I mean it, never!

I like my Calphalon knives a lot. I've just bought them piece-by-piece and have stuck with the Katana collection. They were not particularly cheap but they have been very good for a long time and you don't need a lot of knives to start with. I did occasionally find one at TJ Maxx for a good price.

I am a huge fan of Shun knives!!!! and not buying a set. But just a couple of knives!! That is all you need and thus buy the best available.

Whatever you end up with, be sure to budget some money for sharpening. Either a whetstone, sharpening jig/system, or electric (like a chef's choice).

Even the most fantastic knife in the world will suck when it's dull.

Mrs_Nyefnyef

Why the recommendation for two paring knives?

Try a bunch of them and make sure they fit your hands ... some highly recommended knives I tried were painfully awkward for me to hold.

And don't feel you have to buy a set: Buy whatever feels right for your hand, no matter who makes it. My "set" spans 120+ years of knife-making and includes my great-grandfather's buffalo-skinning knife, my grandmother's chef's and boning knives, my dad's WWII combat knife, and some cheap bread knives from Walmart.

Agree, don't buy a set. I find I only use a chef's knife (more than anything else), paring knives and a bread knife. We have two chef knives as we often cook together. One is a Global, which is the one my DH prefers, the other is a Kramer and is my favorite. I have a mini prep processor that I only use when I'm in an incredible hurry, so our knives get a lot of use. I find the whole chopping thing kind of zen, like weeding. I know, I'm weird.

I was fortunate enough to buy the Kramer many years ago before they became so insanely expensive (still not cheap), but it's quite the splurge for a handmade knife and superlative quality. He's recently gotten bigger and sells at William Sonoma so I don't know if quality is same on those. But I believe he's still doing the handmade ones as well. Anyway, Global makes an excellent knife and is pricey, but in line with some mentioned above. Good advice to hold the knife before you buy. Also see if you need/want different length chef knives, longer or shorter. Bread knives are fantastic for other things too, like tomatoes. I can't have enough paring knives, but I really can't tell you why....they're super handy.

I'm a Shun girl. You only need a good chef or santuko, and a one pairing knife to start with. Maybe a bead knife. I keep mine on a magnetic bar mounted on my backslash. I think Shun sharpens for free, but you have to mail it to the factory. You don't want the hardware store sharpening a Shun.

I have old Chicago Cutlery too, but agree that the new ones are not the same quality.

Also, never ever put your knives in the DW. The blades will get pitted from getting knocked around, and wood handles will dry out.

The German brands are good, but pay attention to what level you are buying. They may sell one type of knife to department stores, and another one to your local kitchen shop that are different qualities.

Forgot to mention. Get a steel and use it frequently.

>They may sell one type of knife to department stores, and another one to your local kitchen shop that are different qualities.

This is very true. I bought a Henckels knife in BB&B and I was simply shocked at what a piece of junk it turned out to be. I would have done better with something in blister wrap from the supermarket.

I think that there are some Henckels now that are manufactured in China and those seem to be the lower priced/lesser quality ones....I just picked up a santuko at Marshalls (I think) and after I got it home and unpackaged, I noticed that it was made in China. :( Even new and at a "discount", it's not worth the money I paid for it...may wind up giving it to my mom since it's likely a better knife than what she's using currently.

Looking toward the Victornox to round out my knife selection. Loving the *looks* of Shun knives (my husband and I have makume gane wedding bands) and as much as I love them and have heard good things about them, I haven't quite pulled the trigger on them yet.

As others have mentioned, you really would do better getting just a few quality knives rather than the 14-knife set. You truly can get by in the kitchen with having just 3-4 quality knives and add to them as budget allows.

I used to have Wustoff knives but a few years ago, I tried Global knifes at my local sur la table after I saw that it was highly recommended by Anthony Bourdain- It was amazing. Much lighter and oh so much sharper! I use a simple water stone to keep it sharp. Again like others said, no set for me. Just a paring, a chef and a 5in vegetable knife. Interestingly, the vegetable knife is the one I reach for the most. I do not use a block - just some edge guards from amazon which works well and is very space efficient. There is a whole world of obsession out there on the difference between German knives like Henkel, Wustoff and Japanese knives like global, shun etc. We cook vegetarian food so a lot of chopping and mincing and juliennng in my kitchen. My vote is for global. You have to at least try it before you commit :) for bread knife, I prefer offset long bread knives by Victrionex or F.dick.

Here is the snippet from Anthony Bourdain's book.

From Kitchen Confidential:

You need, for God's sake, a decent chef's knife. No con foisted on the general public is so atrocious, so wrongheaded, or so widely believed as the one that tells you you need a full set of specialized cutlery in various sizes. I wish sometimes I could go through the kitchens of amateur cooks everywhere just throwing knives out from their drawers - all those medium-size 'utility' knives, those useless serrated things you see advertised on TV, all that hard-to-sharpen stainless-steel garbage, those ineptly designed slicers - not one of the damn things could cut a tomato. Please believe me, here's all you will ever need in the knife department: ONE good chef's knife, as large as is comfortable for your hand. Brand name? Okay, most talented amateurs get a boner buying one of the old-school professional high-carbon stainless knives from Germany or Austria, like a Henkel or Wusthof, and those are fine knives, if heavy. High carbon makes them slightly easier to sharpe! n, and stainless keeps them from getting stained and corroded. They look awfully good in the knife case at the store, too, and you send the message to your guests when flashing a hundred-dollar hunk of Solingen steel that you take your cooking seriously. But do you really need something so heavy? So expensive? So difficult to maintain (which you probably won't)? Unless you are really and truly going to spend fifteen minutes every couple of days working that blade on an oiled carborundum stone, followed by careful honing on a diamond steel, I'd forgo the Germans.

Most of the professionals I know have for years been retiring their Wusthofs and replacing them with the lightweight, easy-to-sharpen and relatively inexpensive vanadium steel Global knives, a very good Japanese product which has - in addition to its many other fine qualities - the added attraction of looking really cool.

Global makes a lot of knives in different sizes, so what do you need? One chef's knife. This should cut just about anything you might work with, from a shallot to a watermelon, an onion to a sirloin strip. Like a pro, you should use the tip of the knife for the small stuff, and the area nearer the heel for the larger. This isn't difficult; buy a few rutabagas or onions - they're cheap - and practice on them. Nothing will set you apart from the herd quicker than the ability to handle a chef's knife properly. If you need instruction on how to handle a knife without lopping off a finger, I recommend Jacques Pepin's La Technique.

Myersdvm - in answer to your question, I like two paring knives, one at 3-1/4" and one at 4" for a few reasons. To paraphrase Cooks Illustrated, the smaller blade gives you precision and agility, for things like peeling, or cutting the stem out of a strawberry, or the core from something. The 4" blade is better for bisecting an apple, cutting a hunk off of a block of parmesan, cutting a sandwich in half, and the like. Also, if DH and I are both prepping, or just cutting up fruit for breakfast fruit cup, it's nice to have two paring knives. And, since the Victorinox paring knives are $8 each, it's not much of an expense for all that added usage and convenience.

Sushipup - I respectfully disagree about "never buy a serrated knife". I use the 10" serrated bread knife I linked above a lot. It's the most perfect knife for slicing crusty bread. cakes, pies, tomatoes. Anything that has two (or more) different textures in one item (i.e. crusty bread with soft inside, or gooey pie filling with crisp pie crust, etc.). I don't know how I'd slice those things without my trusty Victorinox 10" bread knife.

GWlolo - thanks so much - loved reading that!

I have no suggestions for knives, but I will suggest a magnetic knife strip for storing them. No, it's not gorgeous and doesn't contribute to having your kitchen look like a magazine lay out, but I like it for a number of reasons.

I realize that I often reach for a knife with dirty or wet hands and therefore don't want them in a drawer. Also, it strikes me as an incredibly inefficient use of drawer space, which, granted, is more limited for some of us than others. I don't like a block, which solves the dirty hands on the drawer problem, because I don't want to give up that much counter space and also because some of my knives have handles that are similar enough in size and appearance that I need to be able to see the blades to distinguish them.

So, I have one of those magnetic strips mounted on the side of a cabinet near my prep area. I can see all the knives, the only thing I have to touch to get a knife is the knife handle, it leaves drawer space for other things and the knives are incredibly conveniently located. I will do the same in the renovated kitchen.

Knives are very expensive, the good ones that is. I've had mine forever but they are horribly heavy. I got a Shun knife on sale and it's lovely-- a Santoku but nearly the cost of the whole budget camaro mentioned.

So...take a look at Kuhn Rikon knives. I picked up a paring knife from them at Zabars for $7 and it was terrific. The colors make they look like toys but they aren't. They are sharp, lightweight and come with a sleeve so storage isn't a problem. They sharpen really well.

I have several paring knives, the small santoku nonstick for basic chopping chores, and a nonstick mini prep knife for little chopping chores.

I use the Kuhn knives even more than the Shun, though I do enjoy that one. Since the colors are different, they are easy to spot in the drawer. I'm currently eying the nonstick chef's knife in black.

You can get one of these for every chore without spending a fortune.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kuhn Rikon

The serrated knives like a good bread knife with the large wavy edge are fine, I agree with you, and that's exactly what I have, too. I was only speaking of the cheap knives with finely serrated edges that are prevalent in cheap sets, especially steak knives.

Here is a link that might be useful: a great bread knife

My son's sous chef makes carbon steel knives. I have just ordered 3 knives from him. Carbon steel is the only way to go if you want a knife that will hold an edge. All you have to do is "steel" it every so often. Rarely do you ever need to do more. I would be glad to email anyone that is interested in getting on of Ben's knives. If my chef DS1 can use one of Ben's knives to cut up a whole pig it is good enough for me ! :) ( base price 9 1/2 " chef's knife $150. )

Yes. My Kramer is carbon steel. It stained the first time I cut an onion with it. C'est la guerre. I love it. The stains are badges of delicious food over the years.

Victorinox Fibrox

10" Chef's Knife $45
10.25 Bread Knife $40
3.25" Paring Knife $6

6 Piece Steak Knife Set $50
_____________________

Total $141

You can add specialty knives if you want but this is all you really need. Without a doubt the best bang for your buck. The handles don't have the luxurious feel of hardwood or some exotic man made materials but are very functional as are the blades.

Buying a knife set from a marketing company not a cutlery company like Martha Stewart, Cuisinart, or KitchenAid will get you a lot of cheap Chinese krap and block.

Fwiw, I'm not a big fan of the Victorinox paring knife. I just find it uncomfortable to hold when I'm peeling something. I do like my Victorinox Chef's knife, but I'm going to try the Wusthof paring knife.

I have one of those magnetic knife blocks, but I won't put one in the new kitchen. You do have to be careful that whatever you attach is placed properly, otherwise it could fall. No injuries yet, but the potential is there.

Here is a link that might be useful: Wusthof paring knife on Amazon

>. You do have to be careful that whatever you attach is placed properly, otherwise it could fall. No injuries yet, but the potential is there.

Have you ever heard of this happening? I'm curious. I dislike the magnetic knife holders just because they grip so hard and I don't like the effort it takes to get a knife off them. I can't imagine anything ever falling from one, which is why I ask.

As long as you drill the screws into a stud, or use the right anchor thingy there should be no problem with a magnetic knife bar falling down. Mine have been firmly in place for years on my back splash. About the only thing mine won't hold is a sharpening steel because it isn't flat. I do have to tug a bit to get my chef knives, but having my knives easy to reach is worth it.

No one needs a 14-piece set. I'd rather have a couple of Globals and be happy. You could also cheap out on the bread knife to save money.

We have Globals on the boat and they stand up well to the marine environment. The handles, however, are not my favorite from the "grippiness" standpoint. Kramers are, indeed, wonderful, but not within the OP's stated budget. For a good parer, I like the wide-belly Shun Classic. I cannot locate it readily online right now, but it protects knuckles a little more effectively than regular parers. My almost 40 year old carbon Sabatiers do not hold an edge well, but they sharpen very easily and can be had used via Ebay. That may be something to consider. Unfortunately, so many different knives and steels are labeled "Sabatier" that it's difficult to know which are the good ones without some research.

(Pirula,
We made 27 half-pints of spearmint-jalapeno jam yesterday. I minced every bit of homegrown spearmint with the Kramer. I definitely get the Zen part!)

This post was edited by kitchendetective on Sun, Jun 9, 13 at 17:21

writersblock ~ This has happened to me a few times. It's my own fault for letting go of the knife or scissors too soon (or from letting the handles of 2 items interfere).

Pirula is right about the discoloration. I started with Sabatier knives. But Barkeeper's will clean them easily.

No matter which knives you have, a way to sharpen them is also needed. Some use a steel and others a stone. I like my electric knife sharpener -- the one Craig Claiborne endorsed. Craig didn't endorse much and really had to believe in it.

Such good advice all around to shop wisely and purchase quality. Quality does not need to be expensive. Just start with the basics. Find a good supplier in your area and test it, hold it. And learn sharpening skills!

To answer your original questions...Kitchen aid cutlery is junk. Most of their small drawer 'accessories' are junk and break. They look good for a few minutes and feel rather sturdy and then quickly disappoint. (might be an exception here and there). I picked up a chef knife for my vacation home and soon had rust spots all over it even though it says stainless. (2% stainless?)

The Victorinox chef knives posted above are very good. A favorite when on holiday. Great price. My home knives are Wusthof. I believe our first 3 piece set is at least 25 yrs old. We have multiples but we often have cooking parties and many of our friends are chefs so good knives are important to us. (They have no need to bring their own knives when visiting).
Investing in just a few good knives will improve your skills over the years. Very satisfying. Very Zen having good sharp knives and developing good knife skills. Cannot ever achieve that with poor quality.

We use magnet strips but that is a personal preference. They work well in our prep area. The drawer just below holds those not used daily...carver, bread serrated, scissors, etc. Big clunky knife block would be counter clutter and in the way. (it is in the garage, never used).

Avoid getting sucked into big quantity over quality. The Kuhn Rikon paring knives posted above are a disappointment. I got sucked in seeing them at HomeGoods. Made in China, not Swiss. Loose their edge quickly and the paint started peeling (! gack, ! yuck) another wasted dollar. Some Amazon reviews do not consider the test of time.

I don't think you need a 14 piece set. I have a basic set of 7 knives that does me well. We have Wusthof knives that are awesome. When I got them ~10 years ago, I loved them so much I bought a set for my mother and my MIL. I have stored them in a block on the counter but with the kitchen remodel I'm going to put them in a drawer with a divider.

The Kuhn Rikon knives are marked Switzerland.

I found the Wusthof knives disappointing as they don't hold an edge well I found and nowhere near the usability and balance of Shun.

Goes to show that everyone has different opinions which, of course, is the value of a forum.

I just bought a Kuhn Rikon two-piece knife set yesterday at Home Goods for $20 (parer and Santoku). I used them last night and they were great. After seeing sleevendog's post above, I went and dug the packaging out of the trash. In very small letters on the back of the blister pack it said "Made in China." Shame on me. Let's see how they hold an edge.

This post was edited by nycbluedevil on Mon, Jun 10, 13 at 10:38

The ones W-S carries are made in China. Perhaps that was once not the case--I don't know. Now, they are definitely made in China, per the website.

At SLT, the write-up shows them marked Switzerland, designed in Switzerland, made in China.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sur La Table

This post was edited by kitchendetective on Mon, Jun 10, 13 at 11:19

Whatever. I feel they out perform all the fancy ones except the Shun. Of course, knives are a personal thing -- how a knife feels in your hand is important so I'd go with that first. Hand and arm-strength in women and men is different, too. Brand is less important that weight and the way the knife balances and fits.

I ran a cooking school years ago and I'm still getting rid of knives. All the carbon steel except the Chinese cleaver and one boning knife went at house sales. Got rid of most of the Wustof and Henkels except a carving knife/fork set and 2 serrated.

In the last 15 years I've purchased the Shun santoku and 4 Kuhn Rikon knives. The ones I sold were not Chinese made but I didn't love them over the lifetime they are supposed to last. Sigh.

When I like a piece of kitchen equipment I'm super loyal. I have the original Cusinarts, Oster blender, Kitchen Aid and even boxwood spatulas that are older than a lot of people. Kitchen equipment you've had all your life sounds like a new thread though.

This post was edited by rococogurl on Mon, Jun 10, 13 at 17:05

That is a great thread idea!!!!

I hope I'm not thrown out of the forum for asking, but are there any great knives out there that CAN be washed in the dishwasher? What damage does the dishwasher do to these high quality knives?

"What damage does the dishwasher do to these high quality knives?"

Dulling blades, loosening grips, NEVER put wood in the DW, dangerous to handle when you reach in.

I've heard all those, not sure if it's true, but I do believe that good knives should be handled carefully like the real tools that they are.

Prickly, what happens to a knife in the DW is that the other cutlery bangs up against the blade and pits the edge, or even if you lay it flat, some DW soaps will put microscopic pits in the finish each time you wash it, like how glasses get etched. The chemicals in DW soap can also damage the wood handles, and the wood handles get soaked and the heat of the drying cycle shrinks up the wood too fast causing the handles to fall away from the part of the blade that extends into the handle and rivets over time. Even if you hand wash your knives you will need to oil the handles with mineral oil a few times a year (and your wood cutting boards). I have 30 year old Chicago Cutlery that is still going strong, because I babied it.

However, I do have a Vitrinox paring knife with a plastic handle that I will put in the DW if I am feeling lazy that day. Then I make sure it is not going to knock up against other things. It was less than $10 and is not my #1 paring knife, so no great loss if it gets dinged.

Goodness, it takes about 30 seconds to wash a knife by hand. Why are people wanting to put them in the DW for an hour? These are investments.

Also, it seems the OP has never returned; she has likely got herself that 14-piece Kitchenaid knife set. Well, it's an excellent informative thread in any case!

America's Test Kitchen/Cook's Illustrated does a lot of product testing and give very good advice. They recommend Victorinox and Wusthof classic for an a la carte knife set. We bought their recommendations and love them all.

Thank you sushipup and LoPay for taking the time to explain.