Return to the Kitchens Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Installers and Owners- Can the Kohler Stages sink be topmounted?

Posted by scrappy25 (My Page) on
Sun, Jun 29, 14 at 17:40

-I have bought this Kohler Stages 45 dream sink already and my layout is based around it.
-After reading about countertop woes after countertop woes I am ready to go back to Formica.
-The Stages sink has a 3/4 inch edge that looks similar to the Vault sinks- nicely finished.
-The lip that holds the integral cutting board and storage trays is inside this 3/4" lip.
-I realize that the cutting tray will not be flush to the counter if the sink is topmounted and that is okay with me.
-the provided clips obviously will not work with a topmount but there must be other ways of additionally securing this sink other than letting it rest on the 3/4 inch edges.

Please comment if this is just a crazy idea, or if you would think that it could work.

Please also comment with ideas about support for the sink from underneath if mounted in this way.

thank you in advance!


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Installers and Owners- Can the Kohler Stages sink be topmount

I think it would work if you had appropriate support with the cabinets it sits on if you don't mind the look. We basically used the ledge of our frameless cabs for the rim to sit on and recessed it so it would be flush.
Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos
DH attached blocking along the entire back side of the cabinet and routed just enough out of the sides of the cabinets and the blocking so the sink rim can sit on it and be flush. I also added several layers of weldbond to all of the cut surfaces (let dry between coats) to seal from moisture.
Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos
You could do this and still do undermount laminate. If you now want laminate why wouldn't you do a normal undermount laminate install using the provided clips?

We just installed ours in a DIY walnut island using the routed technique and as many clips as we could reach and it worked fine. It is my firm belief that if a fabricator has trouble with this sink it is only because they do not have the skills to use the CNC, sharp bits, and are basically unable to do a zero reveal. A good fabricator should have no problem with this sink.

Scrappy, what was your original plan for a counter? I really urge you to not give up on it. You made quite an investment in this sink and you should not settle as it will be a joy to use. Top mount would really not look right and not do it justice. And your install may go perfectly. So many have counter install problems, but this sink does not cause it. It is just different than what they are used to, especially because they need to be accurate.


 o
RE: Installers and Owners- Can the Kohler Stages sink be topmount

(Lurking enviously. As always, when the Stages sink is mentioned. Oh, and over that wonderful trough sink too...).

Good luck and please do post a few pictures post install (sorry can't help, but know others will chime in).


 o
RE: Installers and Owners- Can the Kohler Stages sink be topmount

I also just wanted to assure you that this install method has complete support. It is structurally sound and cannot fail as it is not free-floating. Please feel free to ask questions.

Here is the finished product.
Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos


 o
RE: Installers and Owners- Can the Kohler Stages sink be topmount

bbtrix, that is one gorgeous installation! Those walnut counters are amazing.

I appreciate your advice and may well end up with solid surface. I was looking at the lighter granites and quartzites/quartzes and see so many reports of staining or chipping, and my old formica has held up like iron for the decades that it has been in the kitchen. I recently found some blog pictures of installed Calacatta formica with the Idealedge which gets rid of the ugly dark line on the edges, and the pricing is less than $30/ sf for fabrication and delivery. I realize that this is close to some of the cheaper granites, but I don't really like those cheaper granites. The stones that I like are probably averaging $70/sf and of course all the worries about install that we wee posted.

Thanks for sharing your installation method. Can I ask what you mean by undermount laminate? The only undermount sinks I have seen in laminate are the special Karran sinks. Do you think that the provided clips could work on a topmount version for additional support?

Also, what did you do for the faucet holes to prevent water infiltration into the cut wood? I looked up weldbond and the spec sheet says that it is water resistant but not waterproof, and to avoid using it where there would be standing water.

Continuing to explore this possibility, I have found some pictures of temporarily overmounted Stages sinks.

chicagochristina
 photo stages1_zps1180ae04.jpg

GW member, I can't find the thread sorry
 photo stages2_zps9c34c550.jpg

Would like further opinions on supplemental sink strapping if needed, and how to deal with faucet holes drilled directly into the laminate. Is there a special seal or plastic piece available for protection?

thanks again.


 o
RE: Installers and Owners- Can the Kohler Stages sink be topmount

I am a fabricator

One option, if your fabricator has the necessary expertise and equipment, is to router a relived area into the surface of the countertop so the lip of the sink ends up flush with the countertop surface. With the right equipment this can be done within a few thousand's of an inch. MAkes a very "built-in" look.


 o
RE: Installers and Owners- Can the Kohler Stages sink be topmount

Scrappy, I really don't know much about laminate except what I've read and don't know if those methods can be used for your application. There's not much choice for undermounting and I'm not sure if the counter-seal ring method can be adapted to the Stages. Old Ryder's method is what we used for insetting into our sink frame only we did not try to be accurate since it would be covered. Old Ryder, would you use this method with laminate? Wouldn't there be a water issue with laminate or would a sealing method be used similar to the Karran install? The Calacutta formica is beautiful, but I would be fearful of swelling and delamination.

I used the weld-bond as a precaution on all cut surfaces of my cabinet frames since they are mdf. They won't have standing water, but I wanted to do what I could to prevent absorption. I also siliconed all seams and drill holes in the sink cabinets.

The walnut is sealed with many layers of Waterlox, all sides, including sink holes. It will have to be maintained to keep the water protection.

The clips that come with the Stages are attached to the underside of the wood counter and push up on the lip, so cannot be used in an over mount. Have you looked at a sink setter or Hercules sink harness? I believe the counter-seal system also has a solution for the faucet holes. They only sell through fabricators so I'm not sure how adaptable this system is.


 o
RE: Installers and Owners- Can the Kohler Stages sink be topmount

The optimal substrate for laminate is particle board. Which can not be exposed around a sink rim. Anywhere there is a seam in laminate is a weak spot for moisture infiltration.


 o
RE: Installers and Owners- Can the Kohler Stages sink be topmount

oldryder's method can also be done going low-tech too. Simply plunge cut an MDF jig on a table saw and using the right router and collars, cut the rabbet. I'd do a test or two on a scrap first though.


 o
RE: Installers and Owners- Can the Kohler Stages sink be topmount

Treb and oldryder, are you talking about routing out the top of the laminate layer? WOuld that not expose the paper layers and the underlying particlewood that LWO showed above.

bbtrix, thanks for your thoughts on the weldbond. I sigh enviously everytime I look at your walnut :).

I will look into the sink setter and the Hercules, not sure that they are made for such a large sink as the stages 45.


 o
RE: Installers and Owners- Can the Kohler Stages sink be topmount

"Treb and oldryder, are you talking about routing out the top of the laminate layer?"

I don't know if I'd try that with a plastic laminate top. Maybe with a marine grade plywood substrate and epoxy bonding at the sink cut-out. And absolute religion about wiping up water.


 o
RE: Installers and Owners- Can the Kohler Stages sink be topmount

can owners comment on the impact of a topmounted Stages sink on the positioning of the accessories? Will a higher cutting board and higher storage bowls affect the functionality?
thanks!


 o
RE: Installers and Owners- Can the Kohler Stages sink be topmount

That would depend on the thickness of your counter material and how tall/short you are. I would like it beacause I'm tall.


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Kitchens Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Please review our Rules of Play before posting.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here