Thanks everybody! Your suggestions are all helpful, all make sense...plus it is nice to hear that I am not crazy for being unhappy with the overall look.

I think it is a design issue--I think the KD may have dropped the ball and didnt account for a trim piece to cover the seams. But they are coming over today and looking at it so hopefully we will get some resolution. I will let you all know what happens...

And thanks again!

I agree- your KD should have accounted for this. Hopefully he/she will have a good solution for you! let us know...

Ebse,
Don't give up there will be a super idea.
You have excellent taste and I know you will figure
something out. Together with the KD and friends here
on GW. A solution will be found.
Thinking of you and hoping this turns out wonderful.
~boxerpups

Wow  ThatÂs one bet I would have lost. Good thing IÂm not a gambler!

Seriously though  I am shocked that your carpenters would think that is finished. Do they really want you showing that sink as an example of their work?

Get a picture or two of what you are hoping for and show them. I donÂt think raising the doors will be enough  you will still have the void on the side of the sink that needs a filler IMO.

Hang tough  make sure you get this just the way you want it. You want to smile every time you look at your sink  not sigh and think "I should have made them do it right".

I was just reading the "MomOf3Kids-PA, what did you use for beadboard/trim?" thread and there is a close-up of her sink at the bottom of the thread. This is what I had in mind. Pretty much like Jeannie's above too.

I hope it is OK for me to copy it here...

{{!gwi}}

Jeri,

Yes I agree that looks good and would be a great improvement for my situation too! The KDs are coming over this afternoon. I'll let you know what they say.

Thanks for spending time on this for me! I'm goign to use that picture to explain what needs to happen. Now, wish me luck :)

Yep. Mine looks like the one in Jeannie's pic (minus the 2 cherubs).

I had thought putting in a filler might work, but that would probably collect water between the layers and be a disaster.

The Shaw's rounded corners make a drip rail harder after the fact.

See if they have any good ideas. Or see if it grows on you.

Right now my KD is trying to weasel out of it, telling me that the vertical seams are SUPPOSED to be there. He says that is the "look." Right. So, why are they taking measures to cover all the other seams in the kitchen?

What a headache.

well, he is wrong...those seams are supposed to be there, but they are NOT supposed to show. He needs to just take responsibility for this and fix it right. Tell him to show you a picture of an old vintage kitchen (which is what a farmhouse sink is supposed to look like) that has vertical seams showing. I hate it when they try to pull crap. Grrrrrr.......

Don't let your KD out of this one! I am a KD and have done farm sinks with frame-less cabinets, that sink base needs trim! It is totally unacceptable and looks shoddy. Your door style has nice clean lines, the installers could possibly use toe kick to finish the trimming... It is not finished!

By the way, your KD made a ordering mistake if he did not allow for extra trim to finish off that sink base.

Here is some fuel: you have frame-less cabinets, the boxes are melamine. The edge banding is PVC, that's where you are seeing seams, right now what you are looking at is a unfinished cabinet around the sink. Also, KD should have allowed for trim molding. If you go to Shaw's website and look up tech info on the farm sinks it is recommended that the sink cabinet not be built until the ACTUAL sink can be measured, Shaw allows that great of tolerances between sinks...

Good Luck!

Shannon

I'll jump ahead one step and tell you that if they don't fix that, you will have a problem with your DW installation. On one side it will be lining up to a cabinet with drawer fronts on it and on the other side it will have the doors at the bottom, but the unfinished edge will likely be sticking out past the upper part -- unless they install it at an angle, in which case they will have it behind the doors of the sink base. It's going to look worse once you get a DW in there. They need a flush surface to work with, and that 3/4 " recess isn't going to cut it.

Shannon--THANK YOU. Just so I understand correctly--if we are looking at the seam to the left of the sink, the part to the left of the seam is PVC--NOT factory finished wood. Right? It also seems to me that I could have problems down the road as far as the seam looking even worse with wear and tear, i.e., the seam being susceptible to moisture from working at the sink.

Lascatx--thanks for more negotiation points. Regarding the DW, the problem is similar to the problem to the right of the sink, no?

Ccoombs--grrr is right. More like anxiety in my case.

This will be my last remodel ever! I cannot take it anymore! The kicker is, this guy that we hired has a reputation for being expensive, but a perfectionist. Far from. I definitely don't think he is holding up his end of the bargain. (Although I will say his carpenters are great).

This seriously could be a soap opera. NOW he is telling us that it was never his responsibility to install the sink and that the granite people were supposed to do that. OK, granite fabricators, just get out your saws and hop to it!

What?!? Is this guy for real? Hiring him was one of the worst decisions I've made of late (and I've made my share of bad decisions :))

He also charged us upwards of 450 for custom brackets to support our granite overhang, but now he tells us that he wasn't planning to order them. That it's our responsibility.

OK--this is turning more into a vent session than anything. I'm gonna stay focused on the sink. Thanks for listening (reading).

Yep, it's the old problem with pictures in magazines. They trim and dress everything to the nines. Stock never looks the same.
If it's installed according to manufacturer's specs, it's OK, and you can dress it up with proper trim. If it's really badly installed, have it re-installed, even by somebody else if you don't trust the first installer. Otherwise you continue to suffer.

I think what I'd do is go to a bunch of kitchen showrooms, find one with a shaw sink installed the way you like (not installed like the sink is somehow too small for its space, like your guys did), and ask you designed and/or installed that kitchen. Then I'd have them take over and fix it.

My sense is that your guys didn't know what they were doing, did something that didn't work, they realize it but have no idea how to fix it. So, they are just getting snippy and defensive with you. I would stop even having conversations with them about it and find someone who knows how to do it.

Just my 2 cents. Stand your ground! It is very frustrating to deal with this b.s.

ebse, am I remembering correctly that you have Brookhaven cabinets? In any event, that is what I have and DS is visiting so I'll have him add a picture of our farmhouse sink installation with the Brookhaven cabinets. Two things: 1.) When we told the KD that we were using a farmhouse sink he asked us to specify exactly which one and stated that he wanted it on site for his carpenter to install. He was emphatic that he didn't want anyone else to do this. 2.) Our sink is the Kohler Dickenson so this may not be a direct comparable to the Shaw's but I hope this is helpful.

{{!gwi}}

{{!gwi}}

I just want to say how sorry I feel for you. I love your beautiful cabinets and to have this happen is terrible. I don't want to add to your misery but I agree with all above who say it absolutely has to be changed. It is really unacceptable. I cannot believe the KD thinks it is OK... Could you visit the Brookhaven dealer with a picture of this and get another KD to suggest a fix? I would think that a piece of furniture board finished to match could be placed on there as a facade and scribed around the base of the sink... but as you say you want some projection of the sink so it should be moved forward as I think you proposed in another thread.

Very best of luck resolving this and keep us posted.

Tina

Ebse, I know you will be able to get this fixed, though it may mean you are using plywood counters while you wait for a cabinet.

I am wondering if the KD can produce even one photo of a farmhouse sink that has been installed like yours-- other than one he/she did. But, before you lay down that challenge, maybe boxerpups can employ her fabulous search engine (I don't know what she uses but the results are impressive) and see if she can find an example like yours-- I've just never seen it done that way and it does look unfinished.

I can understand why the carpenter is grumpy-- he did a fabulous job scribing that unfinished piece-- but he needs to do it again, unfortunately.

ebseÂ

I agree with others here who say there should be an overlay in the area that surrounds the farmhouse sink that is flush with the rest of the cabinet doors. I hope it all works out well in the end and soon becomes a distant memory.

IÂm really dreading the remodel process because of these sorts of issues always popping up. I am looking for a general contractor that pays attention to detail, but unfortunately I know there probably isnÂt one out there we can afford who is going to pay as much attention to that as I would like!

flseadogÂ

I hope ebse doesnÂt mind my jumping in here and asking you what brand of hardware you used on your Brookhaven cabinetry? The knobs look similar to what I have in mind.

Thanks, everyone for your kind words! I won't rest until this issue is resolved, and now thanks to all of you, I have a lot of great ideas.

jeri, no worries posting my sink! Ebse, I think your sink looks fabulous! But, I agree, I'd probably want the sink surround piece flush with the rest of the cabinets. If he just puts more molding or trim or another shaped piece over what he's done, then I don't think your sink will sit out far enough -- I *think* an apron front sink should jut out a bit past the cabinets.

good luck dealing with your grumpy carpenter!!

ebse--

I happened to remember blakey recently posted pictures of her Wood-Mode kitchen which has frameless cabinetry with a square-edge door similar to BrookhavenÂs Edgemont door. Her farmhouse sink has an overlay around it that is flush with the adjacent cabinet doors. Here is a link to her kitchen pictures:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg031658407596.html

Ebse,
Thinking of you and hoping this gets solved. I know this
contractor has been a real difficult human. I could
say mean things but you know what I mean. You have been
beyond kind and cooperative with him.

Don't give up.
~boxerpups

Momof3--yes, I think you are right, we need to bring the sink forward, plus the overlay. This morning we had a meeting and the KD agreed to it. The carpenters are always agreeable :) It's the KD who I have issues with.

CrazyKitchen-- that is EXACTLY what I'm looking for. I bookmarked blakey's sink to show them.

Now, my only issue is whether I should have them order taller doors. They tell me that the proportions are better as is, because the side surround distance is about equal to the bottom surround distance. I see that point, but I'm thinking I would like it better with taller doors.

All in all, goo news. Now, for the final decision--please let me know if you'd like it better with existing doors or taller doors, and if taller, how much?

THANKS.

ebse: I think the overlay that Blakey's kitchen has is perfect and what you need. I would say stick with the doors your have - I think the sink will look better with more reveal around it - that is assuming it is a flush reveal with an overlay panel!! Also if you get drips they will be on the overlay panel and not directly on the tops of the doors.

Good luck and thanks for your color advice on the other thread!

Tina

I agree with Tina  keep the doors you have. Once you get the Trim on like-it-should-have-been-done-in-the-first-place, it will look like BlakeyÂs  which is great.

:-)

OK then, we are all decided! Thanks!

hi ebse,
Just wanted to post that picture of the sink from the showroom I'm working at (the dark wood of the drip board picks up on on the island which is dark stained quarter sawn oak with a carrera marble top). Looks like you got some good advice from others above and I very much agree that blakey's sink is gorgeous and could work in your situation.

Best of luck! are things improving on the home front?

Hi mamadadapaige,

THANK YOU for remembering me! That sink is gorgeous and I can tell that a good deal of thought went into installation.

Things are looking up, the GC/KD agreed that that is not the appropriate look, i.e., seams showing! So the sink will be brought forward about 1 inch, and a piece of overlay (same material as door fronts) will be added to flush it out.

Care to weigh in on the door height? I was thinking taller doors, but I am in the minority. People here think the proportions are right, as does hubby, mother, and KD.

Thanks for your input!

hi ebse,
I was thinking taller doors too until I saw blakey's kitchen. lets take a look at your sinks together (below) to make it easier for comparison... perhaps others could weigh in on this. I really think the overlay and sink being pulled forward will solve your problem. Would be interesting to see if others feel the same way.

Mamadadapaige  that does look nice. Do you think it would look as good without the posts? Eventually, I will be installing a Shaw sink and plan on having white cabinets with a dark Island  just like in your example. But I donÂt think IÂll be going for the post look. What do you think?

Re: the taller door issue. I think 2 things. 1) If you have taller doors, then the width of the trim on the sides will greatly exceed the width of the trim where the taller doors meet the sink and IÂm not sure this would look as nice. And 2) Â if you get taller doors, are you going to change the cabinet completely and have a taller opening? Or are the doors simply going to appear to be a larger opening? If itÂs a fake out, I think that would bug me every time I opened the door.

All that being said  itÂs your kitchen and the only person that you need to please is yourself. If you feel strongly about the taller doors, then that is what you should do. :-)

Mamadadapaige--The direct comparison is very helpful. And blakey's kitchen is gorgeous, so I feel comfortable with these proportions.

Jeri--EXCELLENT point about the fake-out! I hadn't even thought of that, and it would drive me crazy too. I can picture myself smashing my arms into the cabinet. Not fun.

All in all, I thing about 1/2 inch taller would be ideal, but I'm really not 100 percent sure at all.

ebse--

I agree with others that the present door height on your sink base will be fine with the overlay!

CK

Here's mine. I also have about 2" between the bottom of the sink and the top of the doors. I never questioned that it looked weird. Am I missing something?

No, you're not. Your sink looks beautiful:)

ebse, glad this issue is coming to its own good conclusion... you must be feeling much better.

jeri, I think the sink will look great without the posts - it seems with these farm house sinks that there is more than one way to skin a cat. Those posts are pull outs - one has dowels for hanging dishes towels and the other has shelves for dish soap, sponges, etc.

mdmc, I think your sink is beautiful. Your inset cabinetry provides the flush look that ebse will get after the overlay is applied. Your carpenter appears to have done a perfect job cutting out for the sink - I'd have knots in my stomach over that.. not sure I'd even be able to go the farm house sink route given that you have to rely on the competence of the GC to get it done right (although certainly there are so many on here done the right way).

Those posts are pull outs - one has dowels for hanging dishes towels and the other has shelves for dish soap, sponges, etc.

Fabulous ideas! I just *love* this site! :-)

Good grief! Am I glad I ran across this post! We will start building in about a month..and I have a 30" Shaw's farmhouse sink and will have custom built cabinets by a local cabinet builder. I was just concerned about the weight..132 lbs. and proper support!! I'll make sure to save this post and pics to be on the safe side. I'm sure he won't mind my rookie guidance!! He he!!

ebse--I was wondering if you ever got your farmhouse sink problem corrected? Are you happy with it now? Could you post a picture?
I have until Wed. afternoon to decide on the type of sink I want, and I am worried about getting a farmhouse sink installed correctly if I go that route.
Thanks & I hope by now you are loving your sink!

I am so glad that you are happy & now everything looks great! Can you tell me what they did? Did they pull the sink forward? Did they make a piece to fit there on the front? It sure looks much better to my untrained eyes.

Exactly. They brought the sink forward about 3/4 of an inch and added a piece of filler over the box of the cabinet.

Thanks everyone for your help with this! I'm very happy with the solution.

Oh my that looks FANTASTIC! I am so glad everything worked out. BTW, your knobs look super. Would you mind sharing details of those? Also, could I ask a big favor and have you post a picture of the drawers with the pulls - I can see a bit of them. I have ordered the same doorstyle as you and now I am searching for hardware!

Your tile backsplash looks awesome too - details please!!

I would love to see finished pics of your kitchen, it looks fantastic.

Thanks!

Tina

IÂm still shocked that "professionals" thought the first picture was finished. Yesh. This looks great! ArenÂt you glad you stuck to your guns? A lesson for all of us. :-)

Jeri--Yes, I'm glad I stuck to my guns. But if it weren't for all of you, I wouldn't have necessarily known what to do! so thanks!!!

Tina--The pulls are restoration hardware's 4" bistro pulls, and the knobs are RH too. The backsplash is horus art crackle tile in bianco. I'm not sure what the style is--I think broadway? They are 2-1/2 x 5 inch tiles.

I'll post more pics soon... thanks for the kind words!

ebse, I am so happy this worked out. I have been checking back here periodically hoping to see the resolution. So glad it was solved! It looks PERFECT now. Congrats!

Thanks! And thank YOU for all you help!

I know this is an old thread but I'm coming across the same situation as ebse...the KD is claiming that's how it should look but she can order me the panel (I'd have to wait weeks to get it) if I "prefer the look" of the panel.

I'm kinda offended that she wants me to pay for the panel when I'm the one being inconvenienced by having to wait weeks for the panel to come in when she should've known that it would look goofy without the panel. (Hasn't she worked with farm sinks before?)

ebse - if you're still on the forum, did you pay for your panel?

anyone - am I unreasonable to expect the KD to pick up the $85 tab for the panel since it really is their mistake and I'm being inconvenienced here? I was hoping to finish the kitchen soon but now have to wait a few weeks longer b/c of this!

Everyone I love all your farmhouse sinks.

mdmc what granite is that in your photo? Possibly Santa Cecilia?

I know this is an old thread, but I came across it while trying to have my Shaws sink installed. My sink is 10 1/4 inches high, and none of the edges are square. My KD didn't template the sink before he ordered the sink base, which caused quite a problem when they tried to install it with the granite because the sink stuck up. We solved the problem by installing the sink as an upmount with a drip rail. It's not what I had expected, but I am in love with it anyway. I had a lot of trouble finding pictures of this type of setup, so I'm going to try to post some of mine for all to see.

Here is a link that might be useful: