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northpegram

Advice/lessons learned for potential DIY kitchen renovation

northpegram
11 years ago

My wife and I are thinking about renovating our kitchen. We want to replace the cabinets, reposition a few things, and upgrade to nicer appliances. The house is about 20 years old, and overall, it's in pretty good shape.

I like to think I'm pretty handy around the house. I've installed hardwood floors, tile floors, and backsplashes. I've replaced sinks, garbage disposers, sump pumps, and dishwashers. I've even done some light electrical work like adding new outlets and putting in new recessed lights. So with that in mind, I don't have any reservations about doing some of the work myself.

Don't get me wrong. I know a kitchen renovation is whole different ball of wax. For starters, it isn't exactly a weekend job. If I only have time to work on it on nights and weekends, the project can easily drag on and render our kitchen unusable for weeks, if not months. Also, I know better than to mess with high voltage and natural gas, and I'm not naive enough to think I have the eye for detail that's probably required to install kitchen cabinets.

For these reasons, I thought this is probably too large of a project for a DIY'er like myself. So we talked to a few contractors and were completely shell-shocked when we saw their estimates. I understand people have to make a living, and they have costs like marketing, insurance, etc..., but I just could not wrap my head around some of these initial estimates.

Our search just started, so it's conceivable that we simply stumbled upon the folks who spend alot of money doing advertising on google or have fancy web sites. Another possibility is that we live in a nice house, and these contractors are backing into the number based on some percentage of the home values in my neighborhood (more than one has told me that people typically spend 10% of a home's value on kitchen renovations). I suspect us commenting about getting the really fancy appliances hasn't helped either.

I know I must sound like the ultimate cheapskate. Maybe I am, but I can't help but think the prices I've been quoted do not reflect the amount of labor required. Instead, it feels to me like it's a percentage of the cost of the appliances, cabinets, etc... So the nicer the cabinets, the more it will cost to install them, but should that be the case? Are nicer cabinets really harder to install or take more time?

I keep thinking I could find some middle ground. Do some of the work myself and basically act as a GC and sub out the stuff I can't or don't want to do. I would work directly with a cabinet installer. I would hire a plumber to run the new gas line, but I would install the sink and faucets myself.

Am I kidding myself? Will this be a nightmare to manage? Is this a DIY'er biting off more than he can chew? Any past experiences and advice would be most appreciated.

Comments (28)

  • weedmeister
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    From the sound of it, you may have all the skills you need. Question is, do both you and spouse have the patience and stamina to do the work until the end?

    Where you would run into major problems is when and if you chose to move electrical, HVAC and plumbing. Also if you chose to knock down walls that turn out to be supporting.

    With cabinet installs, there are tricks to it but otherwise it is straightforward. Place cabinet, screw it down. Place next cabinet, screw it down. Rinse, repeat. The first trick is getting the first one in place precisely. The next is compensating for a non-level floor or a crooked wall.

    BTW: does your locale require pulling a permit? Mine would for electrical and plumbing.

    My father, brother and I redid my parents kitchen. This included knocking out an outside wall and moving back 3 feet, lowering the ceiling from 9' to 8', and expanding out for a family room. Hired someone to do the electrical (new panel required so why not), plumbing (1/2 bath and DW) and the appliance installations (cooktop, wall ovens and hood - came with the purchase). We installed the cabinets, someone installed the countertops, sink was a part of this.

    I will say this: what ever time you realistically come up with to do all the work, double it.

  • sserra85
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't know much about these things. But we do have one kitchen reno under our belts. We did not get many quotes, but we also knew that labor was where we had to sacrifice in order to get the appliances, lighting, faucet, sink, etc that we really had to have.

    I will tell you that any renovation is stressful... a diy one is at least ten fold more so. It will take much longer than you anticipate.

    From your post it seems you are MUCH more handy than my husband and I. In fact we had NO prior experience renovating anything. It took a lot of youtube, asking around, and trial and error.

    We did sub out for the gas line, spackling/sanding, and some electric work as these were just not jobs we were willing to test our skills at.
    I would absolutely do it again. I was able to be as picky as I wanted and we saved THOUSANDS.

    In our case the savings outweighed the stress factors and frustrations. If you have the time and the piece of mind to do it, it most certainly can be a (mostly) DIY job.

  • debrak_2008
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What exactly are they giving you estimates on? Do you have a specific plan? Are they just guessing as to what cabinets you want and how much they would cost?

    As a fellow DIYer I would say get a very specific plan and get quotes on only what you don't want to do.

    Installing cabinets is one of the easiest things you can do and can save you alot of money.

  • Fori
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think selfGC/DIYing, if you're capable and not moving walls and stuff, would be less stressful than dealing with an actual GC.

    And Weedmeister says double the amount of time you expect. Well shoot--that's better than everyone's time estimate when you're having a GC do it!

    I shouldn't even be considering this seeing as I've been painting my tiny foyer for 3 months. But it almost seems easier--it just depends on what parts of remodeling you hate. I hate the inconvenience of contractors maybe coming in, maybe not. I don't mind the gutted kitchen inconvenience!

  • suzanne_sl
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My husband and I DIY'd our kitchen and it came out great. Given your skills you could easily do almost everything including the cabinets EXCEPT for the time factor. That's kind of a red light.

    So break the job down into units and see what's needed:

    1) Demo: Go for it! One weekend and the kitchen is cleared out. Be sure you have a disposal plan in place.

    2) How much electrical do you need? Putting in the odd switch is one thing, installing a whole room full of new lights/outlets/switches, possibly in new locations is another. We hired this out and the cost was around $700+ for labor, maybe a little more.

    3) Plumbing: Does a gas line need moving? New or moved plumbing for the sink(s)? We've had good luck calling the plumbing store that's been in town forever. Their plumbers have been universally excellent. They aren't on staff, just on call.

    4) Wall repair: If it's the odd half dozen patches and such, do it yourself. If you end up tearing holes for lots of new lights and switches or the wiring for the UC lights, or you tore up the backsplash wall removing tile, you might want to get an actual drywaller, just don't hire those guys who did (in) Hoboken's house.

    5) Flooring: are you changing it? Check to be sure the footprint of your current cabs is the same as new ones. Ours wasn't, hence the new floor.

    6) Paint: That one's a do-it-yourselfer for sure.

    7) Cabinets: If you don't have a couple of days and an able-bodied helper (2 for tall cabinets!), you should hire this one out. You can do this yourself, but it is labor intensive and requires a zillion measurements to be sure you get everything perfectly level. The advantage of doing it yourself is no one cares more than you that everything is perfect. The disadvantage is the time involved in the learning curve.

    8) Counters: What did you have in mind? Some are definitely hire-outs, others you may choose to do yourself. If you go with quartz, granite, soapstone, they will install, but not hook up, the sink.

    9) Backsplash: another weekend job.

  • stephsgarden
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My husband and I are working on a DYI kitchen remodel right now. One of these days I will get around to posting pictures of the process. Our was a major remodel--we gutted the kitchen, knocked down three walls, moved the plumbing and re-wired everything. This is our third house together, and we remodeled the other houses ourselves. The project on the current house, however, is by far the most extensive, and difficult project to date.

    We live in a community where it would be impossible to work without a permit. When you pull a permit, you have to bring EVERYTHING up to code in the area in which you are working, and sometime in other areas. For example our city is making us install a hard wired smoke and CO2 detector system throughout the house.

    We thought about subbing some work out. When we got estimates, we had much the same reaction as you--total sticker shock. It is hard to swallowing paying thousands for something you can do yourself. We live in a nicer area--sounds like you do, too--and that made the estimates much higher, I think. So we decided to do the work ourselves to same money, and also because I did not want to think about how much money I spent everytime I walked in the kitchen. There is also that feeling of pride--that you did the job yourself and it looks good.

    The only thing we subbed out was moving the plumbing for the sink. We did everything else ourselves. And we work full time and have a four year old. Ironically, the plumbing--the one job we hired a well recommended pro for--was the only thing to fail inspection so far. The framing and electrical we did ourselves and we passed with no issues.

    Some advice, for what it is worth. Plan, plan, plan. Particularly if you want to minimize your time without a kitchen. To the extent possible, have everything on site before you start the demo. Also, make a time schedule of what should be done when and stick to it. However much time you think everything will take--double or triple it. A written schedule will keep you on track and make you feel good about being able to cross things off the list. Hire out the cheap stuff like the demo and the drywall. It will not cost much and save you a lot of time (and aspirin). I wish we had subbed these out. Another weird tip: get professional estimates for everything. Why? So when you are cursing in the hot attic running electrical lines, you will know EXACTLY how much money you are saving by doing the work yourself. Best of luck to you.

  • Fori
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the breakdown, Suzanne. Not that I'm considering this. Or am I?

    I used a custom cabinet maker for my last kitchen. He wasn't cheap but not that expensive. But the service oh! The service. He double checked all the measurements, made my kitchen sketches fit in my space, and his guys did the install. All for not much more than semi customs that required installation.

    So anyway I think it would not be bad to subcontract out the entire cabinet build and install to a local company if possible. It's not just the installation but the being sure it's going to fit that makes a difference.

  • barbcollins
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, it can be done and much cheaper than you think. See my post about the Redrum kitchen.

    I got our cabinets used from one of my husbands plumbing customers' But you can also find deals on craiglist. Do you have a Restore near you? Ours in Frederick MD always has LOTS of cabinets.

    If you are worried about how long it would take, is is possible to move the kitchen to another room? We did this in our first house. We had two small children so I did not want to go without a kitchen. We built a new "Eat In" Kitchen in the dining room, then turned the old kitchen into a family room (later an office).

    This does add cost for moving the plumbing, but gives you a lot more time, and I think it is less stressful because you don't feel rushed.

  • ginny20
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You don't sound like a cheapskate, you sound like a sensible person with good DIY skills. No one wants to spend more than he has to. The quotes are shocking, though, aren't they? I thought since my kitchen was so small, and I didn't need a new frig or DW, I'd keep it to $25K. Try $37K. And I did have quotes that were higher, more like $43K. But more than half of that was materials, lights,appliances, tile, etc. I paid my GC something like $12K, and that included a bunch of materials, too.

    I got custom cabs, and all the cab guy did was build and install them. As you will read in posts on GW, custom can be more affordable than you would expect, especially if you have Mennonites or Amish craftsmen in your area. I had a separate cab guy and a separate granite guy, then a guy who did everything else. That's kind of what you're considering, only you'd be "the guy who does everything else." As you say, you could call in pros for the tougher plumbing and electrical if you needed to. That seems doable, since you have skills. Just make sure you have a good temporary kitchen setup.

  • woodenconcepts
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would respectfully disagree that there is nothing more to installing cabinets than "screwing them down". That actually made me LOL. If you are using framed cabinets (and I assume that you are), you have to line up and join each frame, pre-drill and screw the cabinets together. Sounds easy, but one misstep and you just blew out your frame. There is no fixing that. Also, keeping the cabinets level is important. Sometimes staying perfectly level is simply not possible, but you at least need to be sure you are keeping the same plane to avoid problems with your countertop. It sounds like you can handle most of the project - I would definitely consider having someone qualified do your install. I would NOT just go to your local home center and assume that their installer is going to do a good job. Chances are that isn't going to happen. A good cabinet guy will be happy to look over your design before you purchase to make sure there aren't any potential problems. A great cabinet guy will insist on it. You can also have him double check your trim list to be sure that you have an adequate amount on your order. Also, don't underestimate the importance of having a skilled carpenter do your crown and trims. The most beautiful cabinets in the world will look like junk if the person doing the final trim doesn't know what they are doing. On the flip side, a really great carpenter can make lower end cabinets look like a million bucks with the right trim. Keep in mind that mistakes made during install will void your cabinet warranty in most cases. That is why no pre-fab cabinet manufacturer will provide or recommend an installer. Installation error is one of the most common reasons for warranties to be voided. Read the fine print on the warranty for whatever cabinet manufacturer you choose.

    As far as pricing for cabinet installation, high end cabinets really shouldn't cost more to install than low or medium range cabinets. The work is pretty much the same. Trim and moldings are where your install can really start to add up quickly. There is a reason for that - IF you have a good carpenter that knows what they are doing. To get a good idea of what you should be paying a carpenter for the cabinet install, get a price from your local home center. I will repeat the warning above - never have a big box store handle your installation. But you can take their price, knock off about 25% and have a good idea of what a quality carpenter should be charging you. And always, always, always talk to previous customers. Always.

  • piggyspen
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We are currently in the throes of remodeling our kitchen. We did our master bathroom a couple of years ago and it turned out perfect!

    Patience and knowing it will be a mess for a while is the key. We are planning in stages (as someone else suggested) and doing each "mini project" and then moving to the next stage. We hire someone to do anything we can't or won't do ourselves, but so far, even after hiring someone to install outside french doors, we realize we could have done as well as they did. So, we will try first and then call if we just can't get it right. Sounds like you are able to do most of it so go for it. Just be patient.

    We plan to set up a temporary kitchen in our den with the microwave and refrig in there and then use the bathroom sink. We will have a table set up with inside grill and crockpot and probably do a lot of grilling outside during that time.

    My neighbor just remodeled her kitchen and had someone do it all. I was jealous until she reminded me I am not writing the checks she has been writing. That cinched it for us! We are planning for it to take six months or more and will be okay having our house a wreck until then. It will be worth it in the long run. Besides, by our doing it, we can make changes along the way.

  • auroraborelis
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We did a DIY kitchen reno in our current house where we kept the same layout, which is the only reason we were able to do so much on our own.

    Here is what we contracted out
    - bought premade cabinets
    - hardwood floors installed
    - granite installed

    Here is what we did ourselves (with the help of family for some of the heavy lifting)
    - installed cabinets (someone is going to disagree with me here, but if you are somewhat handy then it isn't too difficult). Installers wanted $75+ per cabinet for installation and it wasn't in our budget.
    - Connected the plumbing for the sink/dishwasher (sink installed with granite
    - installed cabinet handles.
    - Turned 220V plug from the wall with laundry room to the kitchen for the induction stovetop.

    I'm sure I'm missing something, but because of doing it ourselves we were able to get the kitchen we wanted which we would not have been able to afford otherwise.

  • northpegram
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks everyone for their input. As so many of you pointed out, I think the biggest hurdle is mentally preparing for the kitchen to be out of commission for a very long time. I guess what it comes down to is this: If a GC can do it in 6 weeks, and it takes me 6 months, how much is that worth to me, not to mention the lost weekends, evenings, etc...? I know that's very much a personal decision, but knowing others have done it does change the equation a bit.

  • Fori
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A GC can do it in 6 weeks? hehehehehehehehehehehehehe

    Sometimes! At least I've seen some claim it only took that long! Not sure I believe them.

    A good temporary kitchen makes it not so bad. You can even buy a tiny old travel trailer for a few k and have a kitchen as well as a place to avoid the noise.

    If your only big concern is going kitchenless, it really isn't that bad. Just a little planning which you'd have to do anyway.

    Maybe you can just GC the job and only do the fun parts yourself. You'd have to be available during the day sometimes though.

  • auroraborelis
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    northpegram - Are you planning on keeping the same layout?

    Due to keeping the same layout we were able to get ours completed within a month, (with some electrical work draggin on for months after that, but I could live without the extra plug and island pendants).

    Basically the work flow went as follows

    In advnace:
    - Purchased appliances, hardwood floors, sink, faucet

    Week 1
    - Removed old cabinets on a Saturday/Sunday
    - new floors installed by contract starting on Monday
    - Switched plug for induction stove top from one side of the wall to the other

    Week 2
    - New cabinets arrived on Saturday, installed Saturday/Sunday
    - Granite templated on Tuesday
    - Microwave, and fridge intalled during the week

    Week 3
    - Granite and sink installed late in the week
    - Plumbing connected to sink
    - Dishwasher installed
    - Oven installed

    Week 4
    - Stovetop installed

    Coming months
    - We couldn't decide on a size for the island, so we saved a piece of granite and lived in a kitchen for a while before installing one.
    - it then took MONTHS to get around to moving the electrical for the pendant lights, cabinet handles, and installing the toe kick and crown molding, but it was all very functional and nearly finished within a month ;)

  • likewhatyoudo
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We where in the same place as you are a few months ago. It is not called being a cheapskate - I call it being smart and frugal. We all work hard for our money and want the biggest bang for our buck and if you are willing to get dirty to accomplish that goal you will have a great since of pride when you are done.

    We had a General Contractor give us a bid for our remodel they bid $135,00 for the work and this did not even include all the work we ended up doing. We subcontracted everything ourselves and it cost us $50,000. This was a brand new kitchen, laundry/mudroom, new woodwork and doors , a few new windows, custom fireplace mantel and built-ins, new interior and exterior doors and all new trim in 3 bedrooms, living room and kitchen. We did the demo work, electrical and cleanup between contractors. It required hard work on our part and 4 months of every night and weekend but with the savings it was worth it.

    I would be careful to keep your part to items that will not slow down the progress of the remodel. We wanted and got a very professional job because we new our limitations and hired professionals.

    We are not strangers to remodeling and building. We subcontracted our second home and are pretty handy with remodeling.

    We found some of our subs by going to model homes in the area we asked the realtor at the model if we could get the names of the painter, framer etc. They where very nice and provided us with the names and phone numbers that we requested. We also asked our painter "What drywall people do you recommend?" He told us and we hired him. Asked the Drywall guys "who do you recommend for framing?" you get the idea ask the people that work in the construction field. They know who does good work and who they like to follow.

    I think with the slow down in new builds in our area we were able to get good professional workers that had gaps in their schedule to work with a individual.
    BEFORE:

    AFTER:

  • northpegram
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    rtwilliams, WOW! If I could save $85,000 and have the result looking like that, I would be grinning for months! Thanks for the advice about finding professionals. That's very practical advice. I never would have thought of that.

    Laura12, Your schedule is really helpful. I do plan on moving some things around, but it's not anything structural like removing or relocating load bearing walls. Also, I know I will need to get permits and coordinate having the county come out to do inspections and other bureaucratic processes.

    With all these positive responses, I'm more encouraged than ever now. The project doesn't seem nearly as insurmountable as it did several hours ago. Thanks again to everyone for their input. What a great forum!

  • auroraborelis
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Our schedule might have been tight, and we may have been missing a few permits ;) but it all got done fairly fast. Moving plumbing and electric willl add time your schedule, but it if you are handy it is doable.

    I'm actually in the planning stages of building a house now and it will be built through a combination of a builder being the GC on some big items that I don't want to deal with (electric, plumbing for starters) but I will be GC'ing all the finish work as well as roofing and HVAC. It is the only way we could get what we wanted built within our budget!

    A book (and website) I found helpful is Be Your Own House Contractor: Save 25% without Lifting a Hammer written by Carl Heldmann and his website is www.byoh.com

    Here is a link that might be useful: Be Your Own House Contractor: Save 25% without Lifting a Hammer

  • angie_diy
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A factor that no one else has mentioned that was important to me was the ability to set my own pace, which I couldn't have done with a GC. I am a bit overanalytical and slow to decide, and I needed that time to get what I wanted. Example: Okay, I have the floors in... what kind of grout should I use? Hmmm, let's research this and ask GW for a couple of days. I eventually decided to use epoxy grout. Do you think my GC would have been happy to wait a couple of days while I decided that?

    It does sound like you have the skill to DIY. The things you don't already know how to do, you can learn from youtube and GW.

    It does take a long time this way. I am about a year into it, although I had to take two breaks of two months each. Hope to finish soon!

  • CEFreeman
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I agree with Angie_DIY.
    I'm the ultimate DIYer because of poverty.

    I learned how to not only find very inexpensive cabinets of good quality at reuse centers, but I've learned not only how to hang then myself, but how to take out a cabinet and replace it with a better one.

    Anyway.
    There are little things you can do with even the folks you hire. Since you're a handy kind of guy.

    For example: An electrician can run your home runs and pull the wires for outlets and switches. You can hook them up.

    You can bring in and hang major parts of drywall, leaving the finer points, mudding and sanding to the pros.

    You can have all the plumbing stuff set up and ready for someone to install.

    My electrician, who charges me by the hour since my home so so totally EFFED up by my STBx, found I knew what he needed. He'd come in and need xxxx. So by every outlet I had the box & outlets waiting. Switches had box and switch. Fixtures and light bulbs available for lights he was intalling. Extra wire in the garage by the extra supplies. Where I needed new outlets & switches, I had it marked on the wall and the materials sitting there for him. Dual switches, dimmers, motion sensors? All ready and laid out.

    See what I mean, bean? You can get the stuff YOu can do ready or done. If you can plumb? Get all the materials, have them run the lines, then go. You finish what you can.

    It really takes planning, planning, planning. Review. Don't start something without looking at all your materials, clean up stuff, etc. Trips to the store cost time, money and defeat. Have the right nails, joist hangers, cabinet screws, underlayment blah blah blah!

    Shoot! I won't even get into referring you to the wonderful RTA custom cabinets online! Just search and read here.

    If I had your talents I would have been done 5 years ago. As it is, I'm learning as I go.

  • jakabedy
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You can do it. I think the most important thing is to have thought through it all very well and truly have a plan in place. Know what materials and finishes you want to use, or you'll be wasting time and money with "while we've got the wall open" and "let me just see how this tile looks." I tend toward the analysis paralysis" side of planning, so I spent at least six months tweaking the IKEA kitchen planner and picking out cabinets, backsplash and countertop. But once I made a selection, I stuck with it.

    Ours dragged on a bit, but we're a very busy couple and made the decision to do most of our work on the weekends and not also consume our weeknights with the kitchen. We DIY'd absolutely everything except the quartz countertops and the final plumbing hookup.

    DH and I would get testy with each other, but we each had our "roles" in the process. We know our strengths and weaknesses and don't play against them. I decide the overall look, he gives input where it's important to him, and I work those things into the plan. I measure, he cuts. He holds, I check for plumb. I hold, he nails/screws. He builds walls and hangs, muds and tapes drywall. I finish drywall and paint. I sweep/straighten up at the end of each day. I assemble cabinets, he builds platforms/bracing walls for them and installs them, together we level them (we had one run of 17.5' of cabinets). Play to your strengths.

    Spring-fall 2009 - play with IKEA kitchen planner, web search incessantly for the "perfect" backsplash, get fridge and range on sale at Sears that was closing and go ahead and install them in the old kitchen). Buy open box $800 sink for $100 at Lowe's.Buy range hood and Expo that is going out of business (sense a trend here?)

    October - travel to IKEA to buy the cabinets and hardware during the sale. Order the mosaic tile backsplash on 40% sale.

    November - Demo the range/fridge side of the kitchen of Thanksgiving weekend and start work on some wiring changes (for range hood, moving microwave into pantry, wall to create fridge alcove, and little pot lights in the ceiling). All of this gets done (to include drywall install and painting) by Christmas and we install the two new cabinets for that area with plywood tops for the holidays.

    December 2009 - Dad comes back up after Christmas to help us demo the sink side of the kitchen and help install that run of cabinets. From this point we don't have a kitchen sink or DW and use the little bar sink on the other side of the room. I can't decide on a countertop for several weeks and pull the trigger on that on 12/31 to get a sale price.

    January 2010 - lots of waiting around. Some of the quartz slabs are faulty, and then some of the second batch are cut wrong, so the third batch finally comes in and is installed (this we paid the pros to do, of course) in . . .

    February 2010 - I pay a plumber to come in and hook up the sink and DW (for a few hundred bucks, we get a guy who has all the right bits and bobs on the truck and it saves us 6 trips back and forth to Lowe's). We DIY the backsplash and range hood install. Kitchen is functional at this point.

    April 2010 - I finally paint the pantry doors and trim and the kitchen is DONE.

  • macybaby
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Have you considered tools? Sometimes I forget about the huge investment DH and I have in tools when encouraging someone to tackle a DIY project.

    We now have a running joke about adding up the cost of the tools we use even on a simple project.

    When we decided to build our own cabinets, we assessed our situation and went out and bought a new table saw, planer and jointer. Then we bought a better quality dovetail jig, biscuit joiner and a nice Kreg kit - all of which we had homeowner grade up but needed to get better quality tools to get good results.

    Then we bought several more pipe clamps . . . and it went on and on. Over all, we did spend a lot less buying equipment and doing it ourselves. But we are also the type that having a well stocked woodworking shop is fine.

    We've bought a lot of tools, power and hand. I was doing something very simple the other day, then realized I used about $2,000 worth of tools to get the project done.

    Our rational has been that if we can purchase the tools and do it ourselves for the same or less than hiring someone, we buy the tools. Then the next time you can save money as you have the tools. It works if you plan on a lifetime of DIY - and you have to be honest with yourself. Tools go a long way in helping to end up with a quality project, but you need some talent also.

    DH and I bought our first "DIY" tool, a skil saw, while we were living in an apartment. That was back in 1980, and we are still buying tools! Next to kitchen gadgets, I like power tools the best.

  • angie_diy
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Macy: good point on the tools! I have bought good tools when needed, slowly replacing the cheaper tools from my younger days and augmenting my collection. I have bought a lot of tools during this reno! (Also ruined one circular saw and one router due to their sucking in soapstone dust!) I did purchase a nice (and expensive) tile saw from Craigslist that I hope to resell when the project is done. Everything else is a keeper.

  • Annie Deighnaugh
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Time time time....it always takes more time than you think. Except for Dad.

    Warning, I digress, but a real DIY story: Mom wanted an addition on the house...3 bedrooms and bath upstairs, family room downstairs. Dad did it by hand himself. When I say by hand, I mean he dug the foundation by hand, the septic system by hand. I remember hours of him screening the soil by hand. He paid masons to build the chimney and guts for the fireplace. Though he did all the masonry work on the fireplace facade. He also did things like cut his own molding, and pre-drilled every nail hole for the hardwood flooring (back when hardwood was hard wood). Dad didn't want any beams supporting the span of the family room, so he, Mom and Grandpa placed the 18' I beam across the lolly columns themselves, using just the '48 jeep's hydraulic lift to get it in place! Mom asked him how long the project would take and he said 5 years. That's exactly how long it took. (Dad worked the night shift, got home at midnight and went to bed. He'd get up at 7am and work on the house til 2 when he went off to work.) Dad was a toolmaker so everything in that addition is straight and true. We don't have Mom or Dad anymore, but we still have the '48 jeep. End digression.

    If you GC your own project, it's a matter of getting the trades to show up... how much time is wasted while the rocker can't come because the plumber hasn't showed....and when the painter is ready, the walls aren't as the rocker was delayed because the plumber hadn't shown.

    That is not something you will run into when you DIY so the time it takes to do the project you save because you are there to do it...not waiting on someone.

    Also, because you can go at your own pace, you can do things the way you want to do them....not the way the trades want to do it. Very often the trades will argue their point of view and they have no consideration for the bigger picture.

    As part of the planning process, plan for kitchen functions outside the kitchen while it is being torn up....microwave, fry pan, where to place the old fridge, etc. keep the kitchen sink going for as long as you can and you'll do fine.

  • jterrilynn
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My husband and I diy'd our kitchen and just paid for the countertop to be installed. We have done many projects together over the years. Not all couples can work well together though so you will need a good handle on that first and foremost. You need to know who is good at what and who isn't. You need to know what job each of you gets. My husband is not good at dry walling or painting or finishes, that's my job. Husband is great at measuring and cutting, that's his job and so on. It's better if one person is in charge. That person needs to do all the research for the WHOLE project and needs to make sure that the spouse does research for his or her part as well. If you don't decide whose boss often it's the one who did the least amount of research that wants to be boss and troubles can arise. You must be able to communicate well and not assume anything from the other. The problems I see the most with diyer couples is that often the woman will complain about the time its taking without really pulling her own weight on the project. What happens then is the man starts getting disgruntled and things just escalate from there. So, again, know who's doing what, who is in charge, and keep the communication open. Know that you will have at least one combustion moment and that it's normal.

  • angie_diy
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Annie and Jterrilynn have good advice, IMHO.

    It occurred to me to add that here is the REAL reason I DIY'ed:

    poor Hoboken's tale of woe.

    I was deathly afraid of something like this. I was fearful of the loss of control that is inherent in contracting the job to someone else.

  • SparklingWater
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Frugality (not cheapness), especially in this storms on the horizon economy, is on the "in" list for most of us. As yourself, I turned aside well known kitchen companies in our metropolitan area for the seeming percentage quote based on house value. Ours is a "pull and place" kitchen with good working plumbing at two sinks and DW, a proper sized correctly installed gas line at the right place, individual hard wires to each of many uppers as well as overheads in two rooms, working vent hood and understood run to roof roof jack which needs addressing, dedicated wiring for two wall ovens as well as fridge with water line. Finished floors in.

    Quotes of $45 to $50, excluding all appliances, of which $16K were for upper medium grade cabinets were over the top to me given plumbing, electric, gas and floor are in place for use.

    One thought: are you in a rush? There is a well storm of tense economic news approaching which I interpret as a window of opportunity for kitchen pull and place (appliances too) achieved on a lower budget than recently seen. 2011 and 2012 have seen resurgence in the high end kitchen price tags.

    Many posts I read seem to see success in hiring can't/won't do items by specialty rather than hiring a GC who brings expansive overhead to the table.

    Good luck. I hear you.