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bluerdgddrs

Gwebbers suggestions CAN'T happen, so now what?! Layout help

bluerdgddrs
9 years ago

I originally posted asking about what you would rather give up to make more space for kitchen. Well after some digging into our lovely 1978 home we can not do what everyone seemed to be suggesting. Floor joists not cooperating and finished drywalled basement is putting a end to my dream of completely relocating the kitchen. I will add a link to my previous post. So with all that being said I have to basically keep the same footprint. I went to Lowes and this is what the cabinet designer came up with, what do you think?

For those that are new we are a family of five, 12,18, 19.

Make pretty much everything from scratch

Canning

My youngest, dd, helps mumma in the kitchen-sons and husband not so much.

Full basement for storage, behind kitchen through opening is pantry, 1/2 bath, stairs to basement & garage.

Non formal entertaining only

Form follows function. I can make anything pretty.

Would love an island, trying to figure out how to incorporate one with seating at end out of the working part of kitchen.

Anything else is free range! Sometimes we want one thing but the house dictates another so it is what it is, now I'm asking you guys to help me make it the best that it can be :)

Comments (131)

  • feisty68
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Comments in no particular order.

    1. Do you feel like the side of the island where the two stools are would be quite trafficky? If so, seating on that side may not feel relaxing.

    2. Is serving space a priority? If so, the island plan only provides the small end of the island as serving space to the dining room. You wouldn't be able to lay out a lot of drinks/food with the island configuration.

    3. The island plan does make the kitchen feel more open to the dining room.

    4. The island plan cuts into your counter space to the left of the sink significantly.

    5. The island plan creates a "boxed in" feeling along the sink wall. The fridge blocks natural light and sightlines between the dining room and sink.

    6. The fridge located to the left of the sink is a convenient location and keeps all your major functions along the perimeter "L"

    7. The rendering looking from the dining room doesn't show the island. I think it would be easier to make a focal point out of a peninsula than the narrow end of an island in your room layout.

    I don't think there's a right answer here. I would want to open up the area around the window so the peninsula plan would work better for me, but it depends a lot on who is using the kitchen and how the space is being used in general.

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Fiesty-responses in order

    1. Usually there will only be dd in the kitchen doing homework while I cook so she would use end stool. Not much traffic so I think we would be ok with aisle width since no cabinetry in right side

    2. I would use the whole island as buffet space

    3. Yes it does make it feel more open

    4. Understood, less counter space next to sink

    5. The fridge probably will block light but there is a 51" window above sink and 21 feet of windows/doors in hearth room.

    6. Yes perimeter functions seem to work best here.

    7. I agree about peninsula being prettier but the one thing I can't seem to wrap my head around is one way in/out.

    I absolutely appreciate every question and comment good or bad. It helps me to make the final decision. Thanks again :)

  • jennifer132
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What is the sink-to-island aisle? Will you be able to walk around the open dw to get to the frig? How deep will the frig be with doors open into that aisle?

    Where is the mw? Where is trash?

    Does the island have 12" overhangs? Is that going to comfortable for your larger kids? Adults in the family?

  • smalloldhouse
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Looking at your original house floorplan, it looks like this latest layout switches your dining room with your family room, right? It seems like the end result would leave you with a smaller family room - more like a den. Presumably you could use the living room as a family room. It seems like a lot depends on how that switch would work for your family.

    Just one comment: in both your threads, it seems like you really really really want an island. And that you really really really don't want a peninsula. This layout seems like a good way to get what you want, as long as the overall tradeoffs to the way your family lives and relaxes and entertains also work.

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Isn't your space 12 1/2' from window to basement wall? I don't think you have enough room for fridge to open, island, seating...and still have walkway to basement.

    I know you don't plan to have stools right against the basement area...but I still don't think you have enough room.

    I noticed that on some of the other plans...there seems to be an extra foot or two on this measurement. Make sure you draw this out on graph paper to get measurements exact.

    And as suggested earlier...measure dishwasher opening, fridge opening, possibly walking past them, etc.

    Honestly, I still like my plan more...but I'm sure there's another option out there that will fit in your space. Keep trying :)

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jennifer-the aisle is 42". Yes I should be able to stand there and have it opened at same time.

    Not sure on fridge doors yet as we haven't finalized that decision.

    Mw we don't use much so that will be out in pantry/utility room area along with trash. We keep a little trash can under the sink.

    Yes she did make 12" overhangs which I realized so I would definitely want more-something to consider. It's still a work in progress. After being there for hours I was in a fog so clarity sits in after I got home. Thanks for the questions. All valid points.

    Small- yes dining would now be in old family room. Living room will now be family room per se. Formal dining will either remain formal or sitting room/library? Still up in the air.

    Yes it probably does seem that I want an island it is all I've ever had. I know that functional wise the peninsula works just as well as an island the only thing I don't get is the feeling of openness? There were a couple reveals just today though that have peninsulas that make me think that if this set up doesn't work that the peninsula is still a viable option. I think it may be that I have reached the limit of the Lowes cabinet designer. She was great but I think they only can do so much.

    Do you think when talking to a real KD that I should mention any of these plans or just let them see what they come up with?

    Thanks for the comments.

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lavender- thanks for checking back in, I gave all the measurements to her maybe I better double check-wouldn't that be great!

    I showed her everyone's suggestions/plans and this is the best that she could do. It took 3 hrs to get this far just today. So 6 hrs total, I guess it's better to have went through this trial run rather than paying by the hour. I was hoping to at least get a rough plan but it seems like I've gotten no where.

    Here is a picture of what she came up with for peninsula plan. I didn't like the way it was angled but I think she had tried to be creative. She even drew an island in the shape of a t which definitely wouldn't of worked.

    So where should I go from here? Suggestions or do I just disappear into the dreaded page 2..... Thanks again :)

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I like the island idea...I really do :)

    It's just that if you have 3 1/2' on each side, 2' for your sink counter...that leaves 3' for the island, which seems kind of tight. It can be done, but once the stools are being used...I just don't know. And don't forget countertop overhang.

    I know you REALLY like an island (LOL) but here's a quick idea with peninsula on other side. Did you want a desk? I can't remember, but little desk area could be other storage. Again, just a quick idea...have to go water plants, before it gets dark! I'll check back later tonight :) {{gwi:1898341}}From Kitchen plans

    This post was edited by lavender_lass on Tue, Jun 10, 14 at 23:14

  • jennifer132
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, measure again. And again! We all want you to have the kitchen that works best for your family, the kitchen you will love. But, what "feels open" on paper may live very jammed. 12'7" is tight to have a good aisle for frig access, an island with seating, and a comfortable walkway. I think that's why we are encouraging you to think through what you really want.

    Right now your frig is opposite a countertop. What is the aisle clearance? How does it work to get passed that frig person/counter? Also, put a big object 42" away from dw. Then open the dw. Can you walk/shimmy passed the dw door? Is it easy? Is that an easy path to use to get to your frig when you are cooking? Stick a stool 40" off of the frig wall. Have someone walk through. Just walk through the space. Create a 12" overhang and test it....

    Looking at the island on paper, it seems to open the space to the hearth room, but it also introduces new obstacles to the kitchen too. It's just trade offs and what works for you and your family. Stay with it, get out the blue tape, and mock it up.

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lavender-you are a doll for handgun with me :). Have you ever thought of doing this for a living? I was just sitting here staring at the kitchen-yes my family all knows I have lost it now-and was thinking the same thing. Crazy. But then I thought that people would tell me that I now have traffic going directly through the work zones-not good.

    The designer said that she didn't like the peninsula plan because of all the wasted empty space in the middle of the u? I asked her to scoot down the peninsula, change door to single and she said the triangle was too far apart? So, I am trying to love the idea of a peninsula I'm just not getting any "professional" help:(

    When I went in there today I told her feel free to move anything, etc. and this is what I got. Basically all appliances in same location. If I'm not gaining anything I might as well keep the same layout and save some money. The cabinet quote was around 20, I didn't think that was too bad but it's a lot of money to be unsure.

    I want an island-sure. I want it in a brand new build with 10' ceilings too. That's not why we bought his house and I have to keep reminding myself of that. Reality, sometimes it's a b****.

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jennifer-blue tape is my friend lately. I will do just what you suggested. Thank you very much.

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    First of all...your walkway is not going through your work space. Having a prep sink gives you two work areas. One by the fridge (try to fit the microwave in there somewhere) and one by the main sink/range. Your clean up area is fine as is, IMHO.

    Picture someone walking through the kitchen to the basement. Will they be getting in the way of you prepping a salad at the peninsula? Getting veggies out of the fridge? Draining pasta from the range to the main sink? That's what you have to think about. And...almost all kitchens have traffic. You just want to minimize potential accidents.

    Yes, some people will say they don't like the peninsula in that location. But I would ask...where would you travel more often, when you're working in the kitchen? To the formal dining room/library and bedrooms...or go over to the kitchen table/seating area?

    I think the peninsula would give you a buffer from the dining area (like an island) but with two "L"s, you aren't walking around in a circle, as you would in a "U".

    Of course...given my name (LOL) I will ALWAYS prefer L's to a U...but that's just me :)

    This post was edited by lavender_lass on Wed, Jun 11, 14 at 0:41

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lavender-that's funny and very true. It's on my to do list with my tape. That closet is about two foot deep so that would open up that corner quite a bit. I'll try anything at this point :)

  • lascatx
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm not lovin' it, and I'm not really feeling that it fits the vision of a cohesive space. Open, yes, but it really feels kind of disjointed to me. It also leaves you with disjointed living space not connected with the kitchen -- kind of defeats the reason most folks want an open kitchen. What happened to the fridge wall -- did the door from the laundry area move? The wall? Did you lose space?

    For our way of living, the double peninsula would be a traffic problem and a hopeless snarl when entertaining.

    I went back to the first post here and without the benefit of having been in your house, much less living there, I think my emphasis would be on fixing the isolated dining room and the backyard access. Putting a door to the DR from that bit of hall at the top of the basement stairs would help. I'ts not ideal, but it might be the most you can do without relocating the stairs. The backyard access could be a single door to allow you seating at a peninsula or moved over to the far side of the room where the window is.

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lascatx-thanks for the honesty, it's appreciated.

    Yes, she took the wall all the way over to basement stairs with no cabinets. So, yes I would lose storage-bummer.

    Not having the family room right in the kitchen doesn't bother us so much because my dh can't stand it if he's trying to watch tv and I've got mixers going and such but that doesn't happen too often.

    We also always gather in the kitchen when people are over so I need some sort of seating in/near the kitchen.

    What if I did change the door to a single and put a little banquette in the far corner under the windows? Would that be silly? Too far away? I would love to make the whole space kitchen with maybe a couch/chair thrown in for good measure.

    The formal dining can't be accessed from up by basement stairs because there isn't any wall space. Outside corner of the house.

    What do you think about this? Seating sizes can change but does this leave too much open space in middle?

    Thanks, as always.

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Just looking at lowes proposed layout and she had the sink wall measurement wrong! So to all of you who said to measure, measure, measure. Totally right! My measurements above are correct. So anyone have an opinion on above layout?

  • jennifer132
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Can't read the plan, it's too faint. Use a dark sharpie for walls/windows/doors. Then draw the plan in dark ink or use super dark-thick pencil lines. A good recommendation is to make a sketch of the immovables then photocopy the plan. Then you can draw in a bunch of different layouts without having to redraw/measure the room....

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here you go, thanks.

  • jennifer132
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    How will that exterior door open? Against the peninsula or into the eating area? Is it a little awkward either way, I think. ...

    How far can you extend the kitchen before you need to replace the slider?

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I only have 22" from the current slider to corner. I could put window where slider is now and put slider down at the end of the wall?

  • bbtrix
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I thought the deck ended just beyond the slider. If you swapped you would add decking and remove the tree?

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    No wouldn't cut down the tree. There is probably enough room for a landing area with steps going down to lower patio by basement then we could do the screened in porch where stairs are now which is by the garage so we would really only need two walls for the screened in porch. Plus that gets stairway out of actual useable deck space so not a bad thing.

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Quick question....exactly what is the problem with moving the kitchen into the family room?

    You say floor joists are not cooperating...how exactly? Difficult to move range/gas lines? Can you run them outside and around? Water lines...again, how exactly?

    Finished drywall...well, drywall can be taken down and replaced. Yes, it's going to be a few dollars, but is it just the ceiling and maybe top area of one or two walls...in one room?

    I would carefully consider ALL the costs and then decide what you want to do. Can you move the kitchen? Is it an extra $5,000? More? Less?

    If it were me and I was going to do a big remodel (anything over $5,000 is big for me LOL) then I would consider every aspect. Maybe you can't find the right layout...because the right layout is moving the kitchen and putting the banquette in that space. Just an idea :) {{gwi:1860216}}From Kitchen plans

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lavender-the basement under the family room is all finished drywall ceilings so no access from there. The walls are only 8' so with the door/window headers there is very little room to run anything through the walls. There is maybe one hope and that is when we remove the ceiling-trying to raise it-we could run everything up and over so we really won't know that until it comes time to rip everything apart. My dh said that if it gains us that much that he would "make" it happen. Because it won't be more $ it will just be our/employees time/labor. Well we will have the expense of materials but I think that is negligible at this point. I just figured rather than mess with things that didn't need to be messed with ie. finished basement, to just try to come up with something just as nice but I am thinking that nobody is digging it.

    This is the bedroom under the family room. I hate to mess it up, it was just done last year by PO.

    So do I try and come up with that plan but then we still have issues of being too close to fireplace I wish I could put the kitchen in the middle then everybody would be happy, that's why I initially thought of moving the door.

    What do you think my gardenweb friends? I feel like by now I should be introducing myself...

    Thanks,
    Misty

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Okay...let's try moving the slider down and putting the kitchen in the corner, leaving more room for the chairs and built-ins.

    Also, if you did this, you could have a lower wall, behind the banquette. Not too low (think grandchildren tossing things down stairs LOL) but maybe a 6' wall to let some light into the staircase.

    Just an idea :) {{gwi:1898345}}From Kitchen plans

    This post was edited by lavender_lass on Wed, Jun 11, 14 at 16:13

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Slider the other way, now that's something I've not thought of :). I will try and see if that will work. It could be a new option.

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi, Misty!

    I like having the banquette, because it's cute and cozy...but doesn't replace the formal dining room table. Maybe add some bookcases and make it a library/dining area? That would be nice :)

  • annaship1
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Are you sure that the soffit between the existing kitchen and family room doesn't contain a load-bearing beam? It looks like a pretty big expanse to not have some sort of an LVL or something holding up the weight of the roof. Just something to keep in mind when trying to open up the space...

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lavender-yes I do too - love banquettes. That would be nice

    Cstr-yes it does contain an LVL. We own framing company so just another couple hours of payroll- one nice side benefit. We plan on changing roof and siding on this house. We are going to try to raise ceiling but we will see what dh finds when he gets up there but at a minimum there will be no soffits when done :)

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If necessary...you could have an arch/opening that puts small side walls by banquette and slider. All open does sound good, though :)

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lavender-yes I think that with the ceiling all the same height then maybe it will make it seem more like one whole space. I don't know why they inset the kitchen two feet, it boggles my mind. I don't know if arches would fit it my 1977 ranch, she's pretty square ;)

  • bbtrix
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Misty, the question Lavender brought up about why the swap cannot take place has popped in my head with every new suggestion that had a sink moving to a peninsula or island in the FR. I wondered why DH says it's ok to move there but not a few feet further - possibly he simply does not like or consider some of our plans doable? If that is the case, please let us know so we know which plans are absolutely out. We're just thinking of the skills and opportunity you have available and what the best possible outcome could be for you and your family, but ultimately you all have to define what that is.

    I think LL's latest is the best yet, and you get wonderful counter space overlooking your land and the hearth. You could also have that double oven that you want. If he can't run the plumbing across the room you could put your DW in the island. The plumbing in this island is not really much further than the others he said were ok. The gas line may be a problem but that is why I asked in the previous thread to see what absolutely could not be done. Since he said it was ok to move the range from the current wall to the outside wall in the current kitchen, does that mean there is access in the basement below the current kitchen? Can you share the pros/cons that you and DH discuss about this last one?

    I truly believe a variation on LL's latest space plan is the only feasible possibility with a real island, unless you just want a prep island. I can envision the traffic flow and great cooking and entertaining space. And those at the island can easily swivel around to talk with those in the comfy chairs at the hearth. It's not like you really want to have everyone in front of the hearth. It creates ambiance and is viewable from most vantage points in this plan. From here you have so many possibilities to expand to a fantastic multi-level outdoor space; screen porch, grill area and fire pit/hearth. LL's plan also gives you excellent access to the outdoors, LR, DR, and powder room without ever getting in the cooks way.

  • jennifer132
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is a terrific plan! Well done, LL!

    Would you,could you switch to induction if the gas line isn't doable?

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bbtrix-the main reason why dh said could not is under the current utility room is the only spot in the basement that the ceiling is still exposed. When he looked as far as he could see it appears as if the floor joists turn to run from the fireplace to the patio door. He is not sure why that would be so without further ripping up of flooring/subfloor etc. If that is the case, we would have to either drill through them or better would run everything through the ceiling because the windows/doors take up most of the wall space so going through the headers creates a problem. With all that, I just tried to focus on satisfying myself with trying to keep it where it is. It's not that it can't be done luckily we have the means to do whatever it's just is it worth it if you know what I mean. I am starting to see that yes it definitely is.

    LLs latest plan is what I marked out with my blue tape I believe, right? I will have to look back and see what was the issue but I think it was that I would be too close to the fireplace? I'm sorry for seeming so washy-washy but I'm an extremely frugal person so I was trying to make the best out of it but dh is telling me that do what we want for the long haul. His only request was not to have the "whole" space be kitchen, he would like to have a spot to sit and watch the weather channel with his coffee.

    So here's what I'm going to do, let's try to make LLs plan work and I will take care of the technicals, well not me but sort of. It will take longer probably and living through reno is not fun but I will get to keep working kitchen until the bitter end so I'm going to focus on the positive :)

    So what do "we" do now?

    Move the door down to the old kitchen?

    Jennifer-yes if I had to I would. Our house in FL is electric and I manage alright so I'm used to it too.

    Thanks everybody :) you guys are the best :)))))

  • brightm
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The new plan would be a great space! I hope it works out. Besides having such a nice open kitchen, you'd have the banquet in front of the door looking out. Very nice.

    But inquiring minds really want to know, since you're introducing yourself, what your screen name means. :)

    We all know we read names here and 'see' them as something else. I 'saw' your name as Blue Dog Doctors for quite a while. (I have a blue merle Australian Shepherd). I'm betting it's actually something to do with Blue Ridge though.

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Cal- your pretty good. Blue ridge is our rd and we breed ddrs-East German Shepards :) some of my running partners :) they keep mumma safe.

    Ok so what do you guys think about this. It's a play on LLs plan. What if I essentially did a one wall kitchen with a humongous island? Island as drawn is 54" x 10' but could go bigger and split counter material? That way I keep my 12' of windows on the back wall, I'm a light lover, but did all cabinetry on range wall? What do you think? Not enough storage? Lacking counter space? Tell me please, I feel like maybe were on to something.

  • lascatx
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    One thing about flipping the kitchen over to the other side -- if you ever use the formal dining room, you will have better access.

    There is a short section of wall between the laundry area and the DR right at the top of the basement stairs -- before you get tot he window on the exterior wall. It isn't ideal for DR access, but it would be something. That's what I was referencing above.

    For someone who has the ability to deal with load-bearing walls, beams and all these other issues and just say it's a couple more hours labor, I'd not let a drywall ceiling in the basement get in the way of doing what you really want to do. Am I missing something?

    Finally, I would suggest that you poke a couple of holes if needed to verify what is located where. I'd rather live with a few small holes than deal with the "woops -- not what we thought" headaches, delays and expenses. We did a few in our ceiling so we could verify our venting plans.

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lascatx-not missing anything it's just another mess we'd have to live with but it's my sons room so he'll be leaving in the fall for college so maybe then would be the best time to destroy his room. I just am trying to keep the projects contained because before you know it scope creep will have me telling dh to change everything. But yes, I definitely will poke around and see what's where and hopefully we will be pleasantly surprised :)

    Any opinions on new layout?

  • bbtrix
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sorry, it's too blurry. Can't read it.

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Better?

  • lascatx
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'd run the other way -- with base cabinets only under the windows, tall storage across the back. Cooktop could work in there -- on the tall wall or possibly even under your windows. You might be able to vent directly out the back of the vent to the outside if the windows are high enough. I've also seen vent hoods in front of windows a few times -- or change the center windows?

    My reason for wanting to turn everything is that you have two main views -- the fireplace and the deck and backyard. The way you have it drawn would block one and have your back to the other most of the time. I'd rather have the views to both sides.

    This post was edited by lascatx on Thu, Jun 12, 14 at 12:11

  • bbtrix
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Easier to read, but would still be much easier to put your dimensions into the Ikea planner. Then you can save as many different configurations that you want and see the 3D and all angles. Many of us have suggested this as a way for you to visualize your space. It will be much more effective than the graph paper the way you present it.

    This plan gives you your island but not good contiguous counter space that I thought you wanted for canning, etc. Where would your staples be stored? All the way in the mud room? This plan does not give you enough storage.

    I'm hearing you say between the lines that you really do not want to change structure. I do understand that, but again, please define what you want to accomplish. I think you need to rework your priority list and what you'd prefer to leave in tact.

    I am nearing the end of a gut remodel, raising and vaulting the ceiling, taking down load bearing walls, trying to utilize our small space as best we could while being without a kitchen for 8 months. My DH has been a commercial contractor all his life and owns his own business. That does not mean anything goes. Labor is hugely expensive. We are union and always pay prevailing wage and you understand the associated costs. So, that being said, it is not practical to say anything goes. It all has a cost. But that also means you can look at this in a different light since you and DH know the other side of construction and have contacts, and if things are planned out well, your crew can rough things in quickly for you. Use those insights to narrow down what is really feasible for your wants, needs, and budget. We decided to be extremely frugal and have done all labor ourselves except drywall, some electric, and a failed marble install. I only mention this because I understand where you're coming from, seeing all the potential out there from other GWers and knowing the potential of your space. But there are limitations.

    I really think you need to revisit your priority list and what you do not want to touch and build from there, and have some alone time with the Ikea planner. ;)

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bbtrix-I wish ikea planner would play nice but I can't get it to work on any iPad, MacBook ion our house. It keeps telling me browser not supported so I update and still nothing but I will get out my old desktop and see if I get anywhere.

    Yes, of course, there are limitations I'm not a spendy kind of girl but I will do whatever it takes to make it right so we just need to figure out what that is for us-point taken.

    Lascatx-good point about views. I thought with island facing fp and most time spent prepping I would have a nice view, another thing to consider.

    I appreciate all of the help I have received and will check back in after i speak with the experts and have a firm grip on what is going where then maybe I can get assistance with the final details.

    Once again, thank you.

  • maggieq
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Really liking latest plan....but elephant in the room is the fireplace. How about taking it out/closing it up in this room. Makes planning your dream kitchen so much easier.

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks Maggie, if the kitchen ends up being in this room I would rather work with the fireplace than remove. I would like it to be a positive feature not a negative one. I don't need that big of kitchen to where I would have to remove I hope :)

  • lascatx
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I wouldn't take out the fireplace - you have plenty of room to work with and enough to still have a sitting area -- at least a coffee nook by the fireplace even with the kitchen over on that side. Depending on how much you want to move things around the dining table could even go by the fireplace and the reading/sitting area by the deck. If the lighting is flexible, you could even change that seasonally. A fireplace adds warmth and charm to a room. They add value to a house. You are not in a situation where the room is just too small to have a fireplace and still live in the room. If anything, I would make sure the fireplace is an important part of your thought process and planning -- not an afterthought. It does seem to be an afterthought in some of these ideas, and that can make it awkward.

    My suggestion: put down the pencil and paper, the markers and even the blue tape for a day or two. Stop drawing. Take some time to think about what you really need, both now and over the next 10 years or more.

    Aren't your boys about to be taking off or at least not home more than they are home (if not already)? If not, I would think losing living space would not be good because there would be a greater demand for separate living spaces for kids and adults. And that daughter of yours is not likely to be doing homework at the kitchen counter much longer. I'm sure you went through this with your boys to at least some degree, so you should understand when I say that your daughter is about to start thinking your are the dumbest, most unreasonable person on the planet (at least some of the time) and want to spend her time in her room, talking to her friends, experimenting with hair, nails and makeup, etc. What I'm trying to get at is that you need to make sure you think forward ten years and plan for those rather than the last ten years. I don't mean plan an empty-nester kitchen because they are still around and in 10 years time may be bringing spouses and grandbabies around. Or you could decide this isn't where you want to be when daughter goes off to college and you start thinking about resale in 5 years. Do you host extended family or teen groups now? Just meals or other activities?

    You still want a functional and flexible space. I'm just wondering if you are giving up too much living space just for the sake of having an island. I don't see that having an island is gaining that much for all that you have to give up to get it. You're not gaining function. Most of what you gain is aisles. That doesn't work for me. I want breathing room, but I want function and usable space -- in the kitchen and in my living spaces.

    My suggestion would be to put down the pencil, pens and paper and walk away for at least a day or two. Think about what you need and use now and how it is likely to change. After you think a bit, pick up the pencil, resist the urge to sketch layouts and just list your priorities, in order, for your kitchen and your home as a whole. What is it that you must have and what would be nice but not essential. What is just a dream? Then keep that list in mind when you start to consider your layout options.

    To me, it sounds like the island is a would like or a dream, but not a must have -- but it seems to be driving all the options. The island seems to play into your desire to have more than one traffic path, but may not be essential to it. I keep wondering if you might have an option to rework the basement stairs and open up the DR to the kitchen and give yourself more traffic options. I can't tell that from what you've posted, and for many people it would be cost prohibitive, but for you, it might not be that frightening and it might be easier than moving your kitchen across the way, tearing up a basement bedroom you are happy with, etc.

    Just thinking out loud hear, and in between several interruptions at that. I hope you get some of what I'm trying to get at. Either way, keep at it. This is the most important part of a reno -- thinking, planning, researching, analyzing and thinking some more. It costs the least and will gain you the most in the long run. Look forward to seeing what you come up with.

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lascatx-awe you made me tear up :(. I completely understand about the kids. Our daughter already thinks that way I'm hoping it will eventually change back to the way it was. Our middle son just turned 18 today and will be heading off to school in the fall, our oldest son is 19 and is trade school so still at home but not much. So yes I completely understand as sad as it is, it's also exciting. My dh and I are young so we planned to have a 2nd life of travel when their gone so yes it won't be long.

    We lived away from family for many years and the reason why we bought this house is to have a home here near them. I've had many beautiful homes that we built with beautiful monster kitchens, large islands, etc. but had no family to share it with, so it's a trade-off I'm willing to make. I completely understand everything that you're saying and that's kind of my dilemma-trade offs.

    You did bring up something that I hadn't even thought of which is the relocation of the stairs. That may be the most cost efficient plan of all seeing that under the utility room is unfinished we could possibly put them out there and open kitchen and dining room to each other. See, that's why I posted here the great ideas, thoughts, encouragement etc.

    You seem like a very sweet, caring individual Lascatx and I appreciate it very much. Thank you for not being frustrated with me. I will take your advice to heart :)

  • lascatx
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you for not getting frustrated with me. I enjoy making the most of what you have and doing it within reason (that was my only option). You have more options than average, but that means a lot more to think about and a greater challenge to maintain focus. Take your time and get away from it when it gets to be too much. You seem to be staying open to considering all possibilities -- you'll figure it out.

    I planned my kitchen for family get togethers of 6-16 and more as well as teen parties, but it's about to get quieter for a while. I have the two boys -- about to turn 18 and 21 and the youngest heads to college soon. Both will be at music festivals this summer and gone more than here. I lost both my parents in the last 6 months and with all the kids getting older and going off in different directions, I don't know what will happen with the family gatherings. Even so, if it's just DH and me, the kitchen works well and it's not overdone. We didn't have any options to expand or relocate, so it was all about making the most of the same footprint. That was challenge enough for me.

    Again, look forward to seeing what you come up with.

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lascatx-I'm sorry for your loss, in the grand scheme of things kitchens are just kitchens so we will figure it out when we are supposed to I guess. Hugs from MI all the way to TX.

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Blue- Any progress on your plans? So many possibilities...did you see another KD? Just thought I'd stop by and say 'hi' :)