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aloha2009

European Designs

aloha2009
12 years ago

Since I hear over and over that Europe leads us by a decade or so with innovation and design, why do suppose that is?

Is this frustrating as a designer, knowing there are "better" things out there but are typically attainable by the average American homeowner (shipping)?

Why do I hear that laminate is so heavily used for countertops, even in high end kitchens, when America has such a distaste for laminate? (very curious)

What type of sink configuration do they most prefer?

It seems that some of the more streamlined designs are just now becoming popular to the American masses, why do you suppose that is when Europe has had this style so long?

Since I'm going for a more modern look, I want to understand the thought process of what Europe has been doing for quite some time now.

Comments (15)

  • dejongdreamhouse
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My husband is from the Netherlands which has led to a lot of conversations on this very topic!

    In general, from conversations with him, his parents and extended family who all live there, and the kitchen showroom folks we chatted with in December when we were last there, here are my thoughts:

    Historically, American has tended to build out (ranch homes, big lots, lots of square footage). We have lots of land here, and it's relatively cheap compared to other, more crowded first-world nations. In Holland and other European countries, land is much more expensive (or scarce), so buildings are built up. For example, in Holland, especially pre-WW2, it was the norm that the first (ground) story was the shop, the second story was storage floor and the third floor was the living quarters. Big wasn't a possibility, so quality was.

    Most Europeans buy one house and live in it for their entire life. Real estate is not readily available like it is here, and it's hard to find property to buy (either because of inventory or affordability). While they may do some renovating when they move it, it's very expensive to do, so it's maybe a once in a lifetime things. Oh, and you bring your kitchen with you when you move, too, which is a little bit of a shock when you house shop! You also see a lot of washers and dryers in the kitchens. Kitchens tend to be closed off, so it's not as big of an issue as it is here where it might seem weird to do laundry in an area used for entertaining.

    Both of these factors lead to building styles that are more function over form, quality (built to last) over quantity (size of kitchen, embellishments, etc.)

    In general, appliances tend to me much smaller. Many family frigs are the size dorm frigs here in the states. My MIL has a full size frig, which is very large for NL, and it's about the side of 1/2 of a side-by-side in the States. Again, the idea is practical. Fresh food is more valued than processed, so families typically shop for groceries several times a week, so they don't need as much space for fresh foods.

    Also in Holland anyway, most food is prepared on the cooktop, and not much in the oven, unless you like to bake. My MIL does not have an oven in her kitchen. We did introduce her to the crockpot. It took two years, but they finally found one with European plugs!

    I don't know that I would say that they are necessarily more "advanced" than us, but we do seem to have a penchant for planned obsolescence here (can you say "avocado green"), which is seen as pretty silly over there.

    Here are some pictures from our last trip to Europe:

  • MCMesprit
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    As someone who has lived in Europe and studied its culture professionally, I can tell you that MOST Europeans are living in what to us would be very old homes and apartment buildings, making do with what we would consider overly small appliances (especially the fridge) and kitchen spaces that are filled with vintage charm and poorly functioning cabinetry. On the plus side -- at least in western and central Europe -- they are usually within walking distance of a wonderful bakery, fresh produce, meats and cheeses. Outside of the big cities, most everyone gardens. So whatever the deficiencies of the kitchen (who needs a big fridge if you shop every day and pick the rest from the garden?) whatever comes out of it is usually delicious.

    But I'm sure you're not referring to how most ordinary Europeans live, but rather to the high end European styles and technologies that keep making their way across the Atlantic. I personally don't think Americans are at all bereft of design innovation. But I would agree that some of the most influential design trends have come from Europe because:

    ** the modern aesthetic, which continues to dominate interior design (Tuscan kitchens notwithstanding), was born in Europe in the early 20th century. The most influential movement was the Bauhaus (Germany) in the interwar period, which radically redefined interior design. Whether it be furniture, toasters or a tiled walkway, technology was coupled with traditional artisanal techniques to merge form and function. The result was a streamlined, clean aesthetic in which ordinary household objects (and spaces) were redesigned to look beautiful and work beautifully. An historian recently wrote that we are all children of the Bauhaus. Think about the imac, ipad, iphone etc... form + function + technology = gadgets everyone wants. Or those gorgeous capital culinarian ranges....

    ** Europeans HAVE to innovate because of environmental, resource and space considerations. Many recent design trends have emphasized "green" designs, better use of scarce resources and creative ways to rework existing small spaces. This reflects modern life in Europe, where population density is much greater than in the U.S. (with the exception of large metropolitan areas), the existing architecture is much older, natural resources (wood, etc...) are scarcer, and pollution (particularly acid rain and lake and stream pollutants) is a much bigger problem. Out of necessity, comes great innovation: wonderful laminates and alternatives for counter-tops (because natural stone is expensive, difficult to transport, and hard to install in 5th floor Parisian apartments with tiny elevators); exotic veneers for cabinets (because wood is a scarcer resource and it is cheaper and "greener" to harvest many layers of veneer from a single exotic tree than use solid maple, cherry or walnut); energy saving appliances and innovative fixtures (because electricity and water are expensive -- think Bosch dishwashers-- and bathrooms are often an awkward afterthought in older buildings and there is a pressing need to replace a lot of older water hungry toilets (OR my favorite, the infamous hole in the floor "turkish toilet.")

    ** finally, kitchens (and homes in general) are less "disposable" in Europe. Despite the lowering of employment barriers as a result of EU treaties, Europeans are much less mobile than most Americans. If kitchens -- or homes -- are remodeled, they are remodeled once. For keeps. There is thus a larger market for high quality fixtures and features that are meant to last a lifetime. After all, they are often installed in homes that have already outlived several generations.

    In short, I think European design reflects European culture and imperatives. I think they are influential in the U.S. because we are beginning to face similar imperatives. Even our buildings are getting older :)

    Off the soapbox.... Sorry for the uber long reply.

  • MCMesprit
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ICFgreen -- I completely agree -- and would have saved lots of space if I had seen your message before posting!

  • Circus Peanut
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Probably the largest fundamental difference is that Americans consider the automobile a necessity for modern life, whereas Europeans don't. They don't build their kitchens to accommodate 14 huge brown paper bags of groceries from enormous bimonthly "warehouse" shopping runs. They build their kitchen storage and appliances to accommodate daily or tri-weekly visits to the local market or shops downstairs.

    And Europeans take their kitchens with them when they move. Thus you have designs like hinged refrigerator cabinets into which any fridge will fit, rather than individually-paneled refrigerator units. [Ask davidro some time about American receptivity to this concept. ;-) ]

    I don't think it's about "better" or more "current" design here or there; it's just about the vagaries of local fashion and the fact that the States seems to swing away then back towards Modernist style every few decades.

  • davidro1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Millions of average kitchens in Europe are nothing special.

    If I say what I sense, as a non-expert in Comparative Analysis of Innovation Adoption, I could write what amounts to a sense, a hunch, a personal take on this. My hunch is that there is more groupthink here than in Europe and this leads to people wanting to keep trends going instead of thinking primarily of "function first and let form follow".

    In Europe there is a lot of cross cultural flow. A broad knowledge of cultures and languages helps us see many things that could not be seen easily if we only had one language to use. How concepts are created, how they are shared, how communication happens, how the brain works, how the multiple layers of society work, how human society evolves, and more.

    Good things get adopted by other societies. One question worth asking is if in general America is slow on the uptake. Does Asia copy Europe fast? Do Canadians adopt European innovations sooner? Why does it take decades for a good idea to come over here?

    Asia innovates too. Brazil too. ETc. Do innovations from Asia get adopted by Europeans fast? Or not?

    The innovations we are discussing here are not leading edge "pure" science; they are applications, innovative in an ergonomic sense.

  • plllog
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm not disagreeing with what has said before, but I will add that there are also suburbs all over Europe, with very ordinary looking houses, and car trips to the supermarkets. These ordinary suburban houses tend to have ordinary suburban fitted kitchens (not take away with you modular). Not all do. Some are identifiably influenced by local cultural tastes. Others look like they could have been built here. There are far more people who live in pokey little flats in old buildings which were built before a home kitchen and indoor plumbing were standard for dwellings. That doesn't mean you can't find an American style house with a more or less American style kitchen. The styles and innovations go both ways. We just tend to be more impressed by the stuff that looks different to us.

  • harrimann
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I just went to Flickr.com and searced for the word K�che. These are my thoughts after watching the slideshow:

    1. Yes, there are dysfunctional looking kitchens in Europe.

    2. Smaller kitchens

    3. Fewer upper cabinets

    4. More frameless

    5. More laminate

    6. Skinnier countertops

    7. Simpler backsplashes

    8. More open shelving/ visible spice and oil storage

    9. Few that would be mistaken for American kitchens

    I suppose that the sample is skewed towards German/Austrian/Swiss kitchens.

    Here is a link that might be useful: euro kitchen slideshow

  • kaismom
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Europe has always had been the leader in Modern design starting as far back as 1920s. If you consider the Art deco look as the precursor to Modern design, then they were the leader in that too! Many lasting infleunces in modern design came from Europe in the past century. Modern design has been much more accepted in Europe for many decades. For some reason, Americans do not readily accept modern design as much as the Europeans do. This is starting to change with the younger set (20 to 30 something crowd....)

    Stream lined modern design was always "popular" with NAm architects and people that would afford to have their homes built with architects. Unfortunately, there are aspects of construction that becomes more expensive, as you stream line the design more and more. As an example, in order to have cabinets with crown, you have to be more exact with the hanging of the cabinets and lining up of the doors etc. I jusy hung a large mirror with our framing in my powder room. It shows 1/4 of gap where the wall is not perfect. If I had hung the mirror with a frame, no one would have noticed that 1/4 gap! This is just one example of why good workmanship is absolutely essential with modern design.

    When you stream line design more and more, it becomes too expensive for most people to afford or the design looks terrible because things do not look straight or well done!

    Most Europeans also do not buy "nicer" houses that someone else has built. If they can afford to own a nicer house, they tend to build new homes or remodel. There is not as much of "nicer" tract homes in Europe. Therefore, more houses get built with architects and designers rather than by builders which is the norm in NAm. This allows them to spend the money to hire architects and "good craftman" that can deliever the well-done product, which good modern design demands.

    Current readily available internet has exposed more people to modern design and they are getting caught on with everyone. Unless you execute the modern design well, they can look "cheap" due to bad execution...

    Labor is much more expensive in Northern Europe. Therefore, a typical house/kitchen would cost considerably more in Europe to build and remodel. This maybe why certain products are not used as much, cost factor, not necessarily the look factor...

    Each country and region has different esthetics. For example, the West and the East coasts of USA has somewhat different esthetic. Europeans have their own esthetic.

    I happen to really like modern euro esthetic. They are hard to emulate because they are not readily available in the USA. Here are some ways to get that look in my research.

    Hafele, Blum and Richelieu have alot of "stuff" that you can add to your cabinets to make them look and function euro inside the cabinets. Pull outs, corner cabs etc. Ikea actually does a nice job of integrating alot of this at a reduced cost.

    I would not consider Euro design better, merely different. For example, many Euro desighers would consider our pro ranges gaudy in looks. I have cooked on Euro gas burners. I much prefer to "wok" it on my pro range with lots of oomph even though they are not as sleek in looks! Euro pro range equivalent would be Bertazzoni or Britania which do not look that different from the NAm models.

  • dejongdreamhouse
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ICFGreen DH here (yes, the Dutch guy...). In Holland space is indeed at a premium and most grocery stores are within biking or walking distance. I grew up in Dutch Suburbia but even there anything over a lot size of 0.20 acres is considered large. So, building up is definitively the norm but taking kitchens with you is not the norm in Holland. However, that doesn't change the fact that stuff is built to last rather than to be replaced in 15 years. Due to the smaller footprint Europeans tend to combine functions leading to a different design as well. Think about the combination of a microwave and convection oven, washer and dryer in one appliance. Also, not all houses are fitted with gas lines leading to quicker adoption of gas-alternatives such as electric and induction. Furthermore, most Europeans are a little more open to change and adopt newer styles more quickly than the more conservative Americans (no political underline implied here although it does fit...). The combination of those facts leads to a smaller, better built and more modern look more quickly.

    Do consider that being a decade late to the design game allows for only the strong ideas to remain so we only tend to pickup on the proven items... ;-)

    Hope this helps!

  • sochi
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Davidro1 - I do find that Canadians are a bit quicker to share or pick up on European innovations/trends. I think you see it even here on GW with Cdn versus US kitchens. That said, the average Cdn kitchen looks very much like the average US kitchen - the US has 10x the population of Canada, so the US market largely determines what we can buy here! As the OP noted, we can't always get our hands on all that wonderful European eye candy.

    Having said that, Cdn architecture is nothing to write home about - our American cousins have far more interesting housing stock than we do - think FLW inspired housing, Palm Springs. And recent Canadian city infills are a travesty IMHO - huge garages with rear living quarters as far as I can tell.

    While I've seen plenty of examples of uninspired European design in Europe, I won't be as diplomatic as the rest of you - I do think European design is generally better than North American, probably because I'm a fan of modernism, but I love a beautiful old French farmhouse kitchen too! I of course acknowledge that this is an entirely subjective matter and I'm no design expert, I just know what I like.

  • harrimann
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    How common are dishwashers in Europe? I ask because I don't recall ever seeing one in a European kitchen.

  • rococogurl
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    There are style differences throughout the world. Modern kitchens aren't exclusive to a particular country. Traditional kitchens are more the taste on this board so doing a modern style might seem off pace here, which in some ways it is. But it's perfectly normal everywhere.

    A college extension course in 20th century architecture will provide the best background for an answer to this question since it turns largely on construction methods and the way space is configured.

    The irony is that some of the least functional or interesting kitchens were done in homes designed by great architects.

    Someone who lives in an architecturally significant house might worry about having the kitchen work with the style. We often see this with the Craftsman and Mission folk who have those wonderful homes. But unless the house is architecturally important somehow, general style seems to be less of a concern then getting the look and function you want and opening up the space.

    If you have a traditional home and you're putting in a very modern kitchen then you may have a real estate issue in the future. A lot of that depends on where you live and who you're selling to.

    I've lived and worked in Europe and the range of what folks have in their homes is not basically different from what we have though the space and age of the homes and accommodations for that might be.

  • herbflavor
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    the thermofoil cabinets I've noted there are widespread, more stylish, and better quality than the equivalent here.
    country manors and estates would still trend to the wood cabinets, but the masses would go for on trend big box designs and foil cab selections. The door styles and storage options are more diverse than what the US customer has access to. Smaller appliances:yes, but they are very efficient and price conscious. In general, the middle class does not value or see the need for $20,000 into a kitchen. they walk to a green grocers, butcher's and bakers and get what they need for the next 48-72 hrs. Yes, supermarkets exist-but many people live/work in town centers who walk to the small sellers...I've known several people who did quite well with the baking and meals I was served and all with an under counter frig and a 24 in cooker-all was well. they were looking forward to their next Holiday instead of fussing about granite counters, wood floors or which stain/glaze for wood cabinets.

  • aloha2009
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks everyone for such insight on European design!!!

    I didn't want to "interrupt" to say thank you for all your thoughts regarding this but I was reading (and will reread) all the postings again.

    I feel so lucky to be a recipient of such generous, knowledgeable people. I learn so much from this forum.

  • davidro1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I agree with the posts from everyone here. herbflavor made good points, and his last one reminded me why I mentioned groupthink in my post. All the cultural fussing about ogee's and ovens sized to hold more than one turkey, it all makes me sick. And then, there is All That Resistance, when I ask about things that people might think are not "in the norm". In the last couple of years, it's been confirmed by hundreds of newbies here in GW who post that they got a look like they had three heads when they asked somewhere about something other-normal. There Is Way Too Much Resistance To New, To Change, To Considering Other Things. (but otoh, when a megacompany announces it has a new product, people bend. And That IS Groupthink, Again.)