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californiagirl_gw

Apples to apples for comparing cabinet prices

californiagirl
15 years ago

I just read yet another thread asking whether a cabinet quote is high and that reminded me of something I've been meaning to ask the mavens here. If it's a good idea I hope people will contribute suggestions.

Instead of comparing the cost for a whole kitchen's worth of cabinets, with all the endless variations that can affect costs, it seems like it would make more sense to first get a price for a couple of very representative cabinets from several lines or retailers, like a 24" or 30" 3 drawer base and a 24" or 21" wall cabinet and then getting info about upcharges for full extension and soft close for the drawers, if those are not standard. That way you would have some important basic information before heading too far down the road with a particular cabinet line only to be hit later with sticker shock or doubt about whether the price is reasonable.

Does this idea make sense?

If you get a quote on a whole kitchen and want to ask here if that price is reasonable, you can get a breakdown on at least a couple of the cabinets GWers decide after this thread are representative and that will help the advisers advise.

Based on reading threads and your own experience, what would be the best cabinet specs to use to get the apples to apples comparison as close as possible, assuming the wood and stain/paint are comparable? Do the pros like kompy and paulines have any suggestions about which are the most common and representative cabinet sizes?

It might also be helpful if people could a have a list of the few cabinet sizes that are most likely to be surprisingly expensive so that if their design includes that they can be sure to get a quote for that cabinet. From what I read here, specialty pantry cabinets and sometimes corner base cabinets (or their inserts) seem to be the ones where people get surprised by a high price.

So please take a look at your kitchen or your design and see which two or three are "typical cabinets" and which ones turned out to be especially pricey. Add your recommendations to the thread and I'll tally up the votes for sizes to help develop a definitive short list.

Comments (14)

  • igloochic
    15 years ago

    Ummm not to be silly here...but am I the only one who has no idea what each individual cabinet cost????

  • sweeby
    15 years ago

    No - I couldn't get a breakdown either...

    And in the end, it didn't really matter because I wasn't able to get 'the same kind of apples' in two different lines. I wanted knotty alder stain plus distressed black paint and distressed red paint -- How many cabinet lines sell all of those finishes at a mid-level price?

  • igloochic
    15 years ago

    I don't suppose you looked at omega/dynasty.....they mix the two lines so you can do mostly mid-level (dynasty) and then just add in the omega as necessary (their distressed black finishes are to die for!!!)

  • californiagirl
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    sweeby -- I'm assuming that people are usually looking at similar door styles and framing in different lines, like Shaker or raised panel, inset or full overlay or frameless. Most folks name the door style and line in a thread asking if the price is reasonable. Experienced GWers, especially the KDs who post here and carry some of the most popular lines, can be counted on to mention whether the named door style is in the higher or lower price category because that, along with drawer glides and closing mechanisms, seem to alter the price most.

    I am always surprised that more people don't ask which door styles in a line are more expensive and which less when they shop. Certainly the retailers know that information. I even have some sheets and notes on that for some of the cabinets I'm looking at (Omega and Dynasty sheets, for example). This is very helpful (although retailers can be reluctant to copy the sheet for you). Just because I think two doors are similar doesn't mean that the manufacturer prices them similarly.

    Sweeby, you've started a great list of what options can be pricey that consumers should watch for. I'm going to add them to the spreadsheet bethv and I are working on in another thread.

    But when it comes to a couple of sizes that everybody has, what comes to mind? Building contractor pricing books use standards, but they seem out of date to me. For example, the standard base is 24" with a drawer above and door below (sometimes with pullouts). Certainly those are standard in my 1936 kitchen. But in this forum people seem to be moving to wider all-drawer bases over doors. The drawer units are more expensive, possibly more in some lines than others. Are they? I haven't gotten that far yet.

    The easiest time to get a quote per cabinet is probably at the beginning, before the KD/orderer has invested a lot of time in designing a kitchen, so maybe this idea works best for the beginning of shopping. Somewhere in your order, though, the seller has a price per cabinet and then calculated upcharges for upgrades and additions like light rail. What the seller may not have calculated is a retail mark-up per cabinet, just a whole order mark-up, so asking for a price per cabinet at that point requires the seller to do a little more math. It also risks revealing how much those upgrades on sweeby's list may have added to the bottom line.

    There may be enough threads with whole kitchen orders here that if I review those it will become clear what cabinet sizes are most common to and in every kitchen.

  • live_wire_oak
    15 years ago

    It's still meaningless to compare a 24" Kraftmaid cabinet with a Plain and Fancy 24" cabinet to a 24" Woodmode cabinet. Context is everything. Particulars are everything. Accessories are everything.

    For example, are you talking a 24" butt cabinet, with 2 doors and 1 top drawer? 24" with a single door and single drawer? 24" with a stile and single drawer? 24" with a stile and 2 top drawers? 24" butt with 2 top drawers? 24" 3 drawer base? 24" 4 drawer base? 24" pot and pan drawer? 24" base MW cabinet?

    Is that cabinet in the middle of the run, where all you'll need is toekick and quarter round to finish it off? Is it on the end of the run, where you can have a dozen different finishing options? Is it part of an island, where you have an additional dozen ways of making it work, all of which involve different options and different charges based on how you handle it.

    Every person shopping for cabinets should know the basics of order of lest expensive wood to most expensive wood from a KD after the first visit to any showroom. They should also know which cabinet lines are the least expensive to the most expensive, relative to the other lines that the KD sells. No, that's not specific pricing, but any KD should be willing to tell any customer that generalization on the front end before they even do a design consultation. There isn't a single KD out there who is so clueless that they don't have at least a general idea of price range, from low to high of their cabinet lines. That general information is freely shared by me on your first visit to our showroom. BUT--I don't try to steer anyone to any specific cabinet line. It's insulting to insinuate that a client can't afford the more expensive line, even if they are dressed in their Saturday DIY clothes. And, I don't try to upsell anyone who is interested specifically in a particular line. I will explain why a certain line will work better for their goals (maybe it offers more sizes and options and colors) but, if someone tells me that price is the most important objective in theri kitchen remodel, I try to respect that, while gently reminding some that they aren't looking at the quality that the dollar value of their neighborhood represents.

    So, even if you are comparing apples to apples, you may still be comparing a Golden Delicious snacking apple to a Granny SMith pie making apple. They're not meant to be used in the same way, so it really isn't fair to compare them.

  • berryberry
    15 years ago

    A someone who has gotten the detailed breakdown of cost by item for every cabinet / trim piece/ etc we purchased. I must say I agree with what Sweeby and Live Oak Wire noted. This task will be virtually impossible - there are just too many variables in the equation.

    I worked with the initial design and cabinet quote - and I could see what items were high cost, what ones weren't and used that to make some change to reduce the price to a range I was comfortable with. In my case, it was the little things that added up. Initially had spec'd full extension soft close on all drawers - but later eliminated it on some smaller 15" drawers (kept it on the larger drawwers) and saved a lot of money (and BTW, the manufacturer still made evrything with full extension soft close so I ended up with them everywhere but about half of them were freebies). Also had spec'd out tons of drawers based on some initial reading here - but after looking at things decided having all drawers in base cabinets made no sense - and switched to a mix of drawers and doors - which again resulted in big savings and a more functional design. Then there are things that can affect pricing across the board - wood species, door style, stain / paint, glaze, etc

    So while I understand where you are coming from, just like Bethv's spreadsheet may be helpful to some but IMO is too simplistic to make any real comparison, there are just too many variables to consider in what you want to do

  • californiagirl
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    I'm still looking for a couple of standard base and wall cab sizes to use for baseline comparisons.

  • bluekitobsessed
    15 years ago

    What about starting with a 36" sink base in slab and shaker styles a la HD?

  • sweeby
    15 years ago

    I went with Medallion Igloo, though I did consider Omega/Dynasty. I don't think Dynasty had knotty alder at the time, and knotty alder was the one definite I knew the second I saw the wood.

    As to what I'd compare, I'd choose a 36" 3-drawer base and a 30" upper in each line's least expensive raised-panel style and their least expensive Shaker style.

    If you know what kind of wood you want, find out if it's 'standard' or 'upgraded' for each line, because it varies from line to line. Same with plywood sides and shelves.

    And if there's a special cabinet you LOVE (like a plate rack or wine rack), ask about those early on, because they'll rule out a bunch of lines.

  • californiagirl
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    I had seen this but forgotten it. Peggy Deras is a CKD in the SF Bay Area who designs but no longer sells cabinets. She has a great website kitchenartworks.com with lots of tips. She also writes a blog at http://kitchen-exchange.blogspot.com.

    But most important for this thread, she has a generic cabinet quotation template that you can download to use to do the apples to apples comparison when shopping for cabinets. She has three cabs in her template, a 36" wide wall cab that is 42" high and has a flush finished right end, a 36" base cabinet with 2 rollout shelves and an 18" base three drawer base with a cutlery divider. Her template states very clearly to the dealer/retailer that it is meant for an apples to apples comparison.

    I think it's brilliant and plan to use it. I will probably use the cabinet sizes she has even if they aren't in my plan because I think they are fairly representative. Hope others find it useful, too.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Peggy Deras template

  • rebeccainchicago
    15 years ago

    Wow! What clear information. Thank you californiagirl for posting this.

  • aliris19
    13 years ago

    I'm bumping this link because I found the suggestion as to how to compare cabinets prices applies-to-apples very helpful. I'm not sure I have the nerve to do it as I happen to find these KDs very intimidating (!) but I like the idea at least.

  • californiagirl
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Construction and family delays have slowed our project so I am only ordering cabinets this month, but I have learned quite a bit about the manufactured cabinet business so I thought I would add here.

    Much has changed in the kitchen and bath business since I posted in June 2008, before most suppliers recognized a recession had begun. Kitchen cabinets are a commodity, just like appliances. Sales of all types of cabinets have pretty much been declining every month for several years, according to the monthly surveys by the KCMA. What has this meant for consumers?

    It has meant declining cabinet prices if you make it clear you are serious about buying a room or house full of cabinets but are shopping for price and quality. Showrooms and building supply retailers have downsized their staffs, so it may take some time to get a quote, but if you make sure to get at least three quotes/bids (and make sure that the supplier knows you are doing so), you will get better pricing. The last thing in the world a consumer with money to spend should feel about approaching the sad folks in today's construction industry is intimidated.

    To get proper bids, it will really help if you refine what you are looking for in a cabinet list. Don't be afraid to take time to refine your kitchen design, including working with the suppliers on the design, but make sure you know exactly what cabinets are on your list and that your quotes/bids pretty much match your list.

    When your boxes and materials are much set you will be in a position to evaluate the cost and other factors like quality that might matter to you. Then you can plunk down your cash confident you are ordering what you want at a reasonable price.

    I have gotten bids ranging from $24k to $65k for the same box and materials list, having already screened for quality.

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