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laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

Posted by efc54 (My Page) on
Sun, Jun 12, 11 at 8:32

As part of our kitchen/laundry room remodel, we took out the powder room that had been carved out of the kitchen, and didn't plan to replace it. (We have a powder room on the ground floor, but it isn't convenient to the kitchen or back yard/pool). Now our GC says we could put a toilet in the new laundry room off the kitchen, with the utility sink doubling for both. I'm trying to figure out if this is too weird--he said he's seen this lots. Planning to sell in a few years. Thoughts? (cross-posted in laundry room) Thanks!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

I think it sounds great. People come in from the pool, drop their wet towels in the laundry, and then use the facilities and also have a private place to change back into their clothes (if it's guests). See if you can put an outdoor shower on the other side of the wall if it's conventient to the pool. We have one and it's awesome!


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I don't like the idea. I would not want a potentially yucky toilet next to where I want to clean my clothes. Just my opinion! :o)


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

How big is the laundry room? Could there be some kind of separation? I agree that it would also be great to get a shower there too.

A lot of apartments have the W/D in a bathroom so the combination doesn't bother me, but I don't know that I would want it to just be a toilet randomly sitting in the laundry room either.


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My husband's aunt & uncle have a bathroom off the kitchen that "just happens" to also have the washer & dryer in it. I never really though about it as odd, so I'd say go for it.


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I know someone who put a toilet in the laundry room (easy access from the garage) it just seemed weird to me. I wouldn't want one there.


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Seems to me as though it could be fine, especially if there's room enough to visually separate one purpose from the other, for instance with a water closet or a half-wall, or enclosing the washer-dryer in a cabinet of some sort. How much space are you talking about? In the small wheelchair-accessible house we had built for our father in the last years of his life, in Kentucky, we had added a powder room for caregivers so they could have a separate bathroom. In that small space we also had a small vanity and an over-and-under washer dryer. I don't believe it bothered anyone in the least. And a laundry room adjacent to a kitchen is a wonderful thing.
Lynn


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Sounds great to me too. Yes, a pony wall around the commode would be nice, but if I had to choose between having it in there (easily accessible to kids in particular) without a pony wall or other separation and not having a commode in the laundry room at all...I'd go for having it. Just teach everyone to keep the seat down and keep it scrupulously clean and few will think twice about it being in with the laundry.


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It's funny...a laundry machine in a bathroom with a full suite of fixtures doesn't bother me. It just seems retrofitted and European. OTOH, having a toilet in a laundry room does bother me. I think it's because in a laundry room one expects there to be baskets of clothes, whereas in a bathroom, which is naturally a wet room, one takes the laundry in a load at a time and puts it right in and out of the machine. Though some folks hang drip dries in the bathroom... This has lots of sides to it.

I wouldn't mind if there were an enclosure around the toilet. It wouldn't have to be solid walls. Just a panel partition.

Check your local codes--don't rely on what the contractor has seen. Where I live you have to have "two doors" between a kitchen and a toilet. If the laundry room opens directly off the kitchen, you'd need a wall and door around the toilet here just to pass inspection.


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Sure, I would go for it. No one wants swimmers traipsing across the house to get to the toilet. Or peeing in the pool!!

We have a toilet in the basement right next to our laundry area, with the laundry sink being the only sink there. The toilet has a wall of sorts around it, but on two sides (including the laundry side) the wall doesn't go to the floor or all the way to the ceiling--it's like the wall in a public restroom, but the space inside is bigger than in a public restroom stall.

Sounds weird? Sure! But who cares? The toilet is there because our house is built into a hill and the garage is effectively in part of the basement, so if you're working on the car or the front yard you can just walk a few yards into the basement and there's the toilet. No need for grimy people to go into the nice part of the house to pee. Just like in your case the toilet will mean there's no need for dripping wet swimmers to traipse across the house. The usefulness of that outweighs all weirdness.

So go for it. But can you arrange things so there's a visual barrier of some kind between the toilet and the actual laundry area? Even the flimsiest of walls or partial walls would be good. Even a curtain, for that matter.


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I have heard about this "two doors" rule but, what about proximity? I think it goes back to preventing aerosol from a flushing toilet being able to get into a kitchen when people were exploiting the least expensive option of having a single stack serve kitchen and bath by having them adjacent.

However, I have been in a LOT of new builds where there is a very open plan and only one door between the bathroom and kitchen, where the bathroom door may be the only interior room door in the entire house.The two may not be particularly adjacent to each other, though. How would they apply the rule then?


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Good question! I had no idea what the answer was so asked an expert. He hasn't dealt with the question because even on open plans there is often a small hall or similar approach to the bathroom, instead of having it open into the greatroom. There may be something on the books for just the situation Palimpsest mentions, but the general answer is that if it makes sense for the intent of the code, it shouldn't be hard to get a variance from the code administration department. That is, with the bathroom on the other side of the house, it's just a matter of making an application. If the wall would be considered "adjacent" to the kitchen rather than "way over there", the inspectors could get really picky.

Really, what the two doors rule does is allow you to put the toilet quite close to the kitchen. :)


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Well, certainly there isn't a "two doors" rule where I live. I have a little hallway with the washer on one side and the dryer on the other between the dining room and the downstairs bath, but I've seen puh-lenty of places around here that have a half bath immediately off the kitchen.


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Even a cabinet can make a nice divider, between the toilet and the rest of the laundry room.


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

Thank you everyone for your very helpful thoughts. They seem to reflect the ambivalence I'm feeling--it would be very convenient to have a toilet there, but there is a slightly skeezy quality to having it out in the open. Space is pretty tight, but I'm going to talk to our GQ to see if there's some way to put a wall or other visual barrier between the toilet and the rest of the room. We do have a "two door" rule, but the GQ says because of the layout we'll comply with that. Thanks again, and I'd welcome any further thoughts/pictures.


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I've done it and I absolutely love it! Moreover dh insisted on a door out the back end so that laundry, all of which is air-dried around here, could take a side route (out the servants' door so that it needn't sully the Family don't you know).

I agree the divider is a good thing too. Ours is actually large enough that I never even know someone is on the toilet. This was not planned. We had intended for a sliding door but the city decided we'd prefer a massive piece of steel in that wall instead. More times than one I've shut out the light, grumbling about people leaving on lights mumblegrumblummph. Then there's a howl. Oh ... put the light switches on the toilet side! Not aesthetic, perhaps, but delightfully utilitarian. I regret the light placement in every single one of our toilets. that way.

We ended up putting in two sinks, a utility one and a hand sink. I thought that was silly and would have preferred to make them work together. At the time I had no idea how many beautiful sinks there are out there. I saw a gorgeous one cut-priced to a mere 1K or so down from probably 4K. That would have worked. :) I imagine with dedication you could find a good sink that could work for both functions just fine, laundry utility and hand-washing. If I had to do it over, I'd stick to those guns. Our friend the architect was a little bit scandalized I think. Honestly... it's just water. Whatever.

Here's a long series of pictures. The room actually serves many functions as it attaches to a side room we use as my office/music room. It could be a guest bedroom and this could be the "guest powder room". As there is an outside door it could also serve to permit grubby people to washup from the outside. I know when the inspector is gone dh will want to effect his life-long dream of flipping the water to the outside for an exterior shower. How that will mesh with his other life-long dream of his, hiding the laundry, I don't know. He's under the delusion that the laundry can be hung, al of it, in the 5' sideyard. I've told him repeatedly there is no way this can (or will) happen. Maybe I can sweeten reality by offering the outdoor shower.

OK, so here's a tour. There has been zero cleaning-up following this morning's panicked departure for the swim meet. Dishes (this is our temporary cleanup sink, the utility tub), laundry, wet floors, towels from yesterday's meet wet and strewn everywhere ... all yours. :)

View from the kitchen. Right is music room/office/guest room. There is a connecting sliding door from just inside and behind that right door to the laundry room, which is also accessed from through the visible, left door:

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Here's standing inside the door. There's wet footprints on the slate floor -- which I just love, btw. I was worried about the unevenness. It was not a problem at all; kinda nice on the feet actually. There's a fishtank temporarily stored there on the side. Great, cheap plastic sink and wonderful faucet ("Cobra"). Behind that wall is the invisible toilet.

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Here's the outside door (with electronic lock which I *highly* recommend one of) with the sink just visible on the right. I'm contemplating bamboo slab fronts for cabinets in this pair of rooms. I was overridden on them for the kitchen so I'm wanting them, maybe, here? Sorry about terrible picture quality. I need one of those RE squeezy cameras.


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Here's the toilet, hiding. *great* Toto angled seat and skirted bottom (less swirls to clean. Yeah), btw. Followed by an attempt to show the slate in the shower. Glass doors - great - and the slate is perfect for scrubbling your feet. All the same lot of Mexican slate, but sorted by color and texture for different parts of the room. The shower is the "beach" (that's what it was IRL upon deposition, that is).

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I'll probably take away these photos soon as they're so sloppy and bad, and well, betray what slobs we are -- guess it's not the photos' fault, really. But I wanted to nick in here and encourage you on your idea. I think it's not only do-able but actively, positively great. Personally, I see absolutely no reason various rooms can't serve multiple functions. (I just erased more judgemental comments; reasonable minds can disagree of course. I think it gratifies some puzzle-working sense for me; I like the utility of multiple-uses. Feels gratifying).


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

Try to find it. :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Hiding in plain sight


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exposure

Hmmmm.... I think it wouldn't be all that difficult to find under use. So to speak.


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

AAAAACCCK!!! Breenthumb, those pictures remind me of a house in Palo Alto which has an outdoor urinal with more privacy!!!!!!


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

If you think of it as putting the washer/dryer in the powderroom, instead of the toilet in the laundry room, it doesn't seem odd. I'd do it. The divider sounds good, though. I think it's always better to have more available "necessaries."


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

Breenthumb, that is just plain creepy!

To get back to post. I would certainly put the toilet in there. Also agree that a small handwashing sink is a very good idea.


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Hey, that's LA. Why am I not surprised?

It's just weird, not even gross. Because I have a really hard time believing anyone would use that for its intended purpose. What's the point? I think it must be just one of those new shock-ads that really has nothing to do with what they're selling; the singular purpose is to get your attention.


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

Many, many, many condo's have laundry in the 2nd/guest bathroom. How about making the room a bathroom/washroom and hiding the washer/dryer behind doors that slide open? You have a chance to have a door that opens from the pool to a bathroom? Oh yes....definitely a good idea!


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I think it is skeevy :). I have seen it a lot too and refused to buy a house because of it. Not the perfect house anyway but that was a total turn off.

I have seen it flip flopped though and that works nicely - toilet and sink first and then pocket door to laundry room (which stays closed). Don't know if you have room for that though.


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Our old laundry room had bifold doors taking up a whole wall in our small eating area in the kitchen. It was horrible. You would sit by cheap, dark, dusty, louvered, bi-fold doors with the laundry machines 6" behind the door to eat your breakfast. About 7 years ago, we bumped that wall into the eating area a bit, drywalled the door area, and added a regular door on the end right by the back door coming in from the garage. As part of that we knew we neded to add a toilet and pedestal sink because the nearest bathroom from the garage was the guest bath halfway down the house through the family room. We garden a lot and were always dragging dirt through the house to use the bathroom. To us, having a toilet in the laundry room was a huge improvement over having bi-fold doors taking so much visual space of the kitchen.

I never thought it was strange until I came here and posted my new kitchen plan. Some people had, and still have, an issue with a toilet being so close. The door is around the corner and the toilet is only used by us when we don't gave company so I don't see it as a problem. For most visitors in our house, they see a closed door that they must assume is a laundry room. So what. We don't have a huge house to "hide" the laundry room and toilet. Having a toilet in the laundry room by the back door makes our life much better!


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

I would only consider it if the toilet could be completely hidden from view. In addition to the house I mentioned above, I've also seen a fellow gardener's bathroom/laundry room ... everything was wide open in one room ... washing machine/dryer/toilet/shower stall.

If resale is anywhere on the horizon I would give serious thought to whatever decision you make.


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'Course, if it's for serving the garden/pool, you could do what a guy I just did some design work for did: Build a cabana. :)


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

Having a room in your house with an ambiguous purpose is value deleted from your sale price. Period. I don't care what gushing burbling you hear here, it's a fact. A buyer will completely discount the value of any room where he or she can't figure out what it's for, or delete extra for the renovation cost and burden of transforming it into a "normal" room. This has been fairly well researched.

So, you need to make that room into either: 1) a laundry room with a powder room (or bathroom) attached--no matter how cozy that room may have to be, or 2) a bathroom or powder room with a WD in it. Functionally, you end up with the same thing, but visually, you end up with a clear fast first impression of what the room is, with an unexpected "plus"--either, plus WD or plus a powder room, depending which way you go. Toilets located in inappropriate rooms are a common joke among buyers and are considered trailer trash design.


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

Wow. I am floored. Trailer trash? Hmmmm.... Where did so much fastidiousness come from? What's ambiguous about a shared laundry-bathroom? Toilets use water, laundry uses water: why string more pipe than necessary? They're both, actually, underbelly house-purposes. I just cannot fathom what's the big deal? What sort of pretense is being futhered to place a "watercloset" in a dedicated room? I am completely mystified by this.

And I'm with breezy that sticking laundry in the kitchen - or hallway closet like my sil - that seems kinda ick to me. At least there's a door and separateness to placing bathroom and laundry room together, and they're separate from the household's usual daily activities, though handy to them. After all, life happens. It includes the activities contained by laundry rooms and "bathrooms".

I suppose how ick this location is really depends on how you and your family go about the activities contained therein. We tend (OK: "I") to leave laundry close to the machine so having it in a hallway would be a very bad plan. Not to mention the kitchen. And with kids, that thing's often going constantly, so the noise in the kitchen would be a problem. But I've seen setups for older folk who run washing machines rarely that are very much more proximal to their daily lives and I realize that machine is only run rarely, when they're not even in the room. So ... I think this can be highly dependent on the function of your kitchen - or in this case, bathroom - within your family's daily life.


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What's ambiguous about a shared laundry-bathroom? Toilets use water, laundry uses water: why string more pipe than necessary? They're both, actually, underbelly house-purposes. I just cannot fathom what's the big deal? What sort of pretense is being futhered to place a "watercloset" in a dedicated room? I am completely mystified by this.

With that sort of logic why not stick the toilet in the kitchen? If you don't care about certain aesthetics ... and your photos do speak for themselves ... respect the fact that other people do.


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There are actually a number of very small houses and apartments that have the bathroom right off the kitchen both where I live and in places like NYC. I stayed with a friend whose apartment was so old that you climbed a step stool into what was the old combo kitchen sink/bathtub to take a shower in the kitchen. The toilet, however, was in a closet off the bedroom, completely alone, probably tied into the "kitchen stack" of the next apartment. People who live in small spaces tend to appreciate an amenity like a washer and dryer no matter where it might be. I looked at two places this year that had a washer/dry IN the bedroom. Not in a closet in the bedroom, but in the bedroom itself. I would much prefer it in the bathroom than as a bedside table.

The recent "two door" or other separations are because of the potential for aerosol, from flushing with the lid up or men who stand up to...maybe we should sit like a lot of German men and prevent aerosol.

But the kitchen sink has more bacteria than the rim of the toilet (according to some studies), and clothes actually touch certain parts of ones body which is one of the reasons we wash them. A laundry room is not a food preparation area.
That said, I think some acknowledgement of separate function, even if it is something like a refrigerator panel is better than ambiguity or promoting the notion that you sit on the toilet and pair up clean socks at the same time.

I don't get the part about a "potentially icky or dirty" toilet being left that way in a house though. Not cleaned by the next adult that sees it, like immediately? Really?


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I think the extra function of having a toilet accessible to pool guests is a major plus. I think that if the toilet is further from the door, therefore further from the kitchen, it is ideal (if possible). I find bathrooms that open into kitchens to be a little awkward, but sometimes, it is an old house and that is just the way it is.
If you can just keep the toilet from being very visible in the doorway to the kitchen, I think it is a selling point in getting an extra half bath. It would be great if you had drying racks for when people came out of the pool, so they can put on dry clothes in there and hang up their bathing suits. Put in a vent fan and a window if possible.
I'd have no problem with a laundry in a bathroom unless it were the only bathroom in the house and then only because of tying it up when others need it. Again, if one has a small place, then you do what you have to do...


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***With that sort of logic why not stick the toilet in the kitchen? If you don't care about certain aesthetics ... and your photos do speak for themselves ... respect the fact that other people do.***

That is unkind.


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

Um, I think some folks are taking this discussion a bit too personally and getting a bit hot under the collar.

Marcolo: Did you really mean to imply that someone who chooses, for whatever reason, to put a commode in what is technically a laundry room is trailer trash? Seems a bit harsh. And Natal: ooooohhhhh, bit needlessly stinging on Aliris's photos, don't you think? She was more concerned about providing photos that could help the OP decide how she felt about it than she was at showing her home at its best. Not a bad value judgment it seems to me.

And Aliris...OK, Marcolo's trailer trash comment stung. But the a good offense isn't always the best defense.

Everyone...take a breath, please. For goodnesss sake it's a question of opinions about bathrooms and laundry rooms. It's not a moral issue.


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I think the privacy factor is a big element. In many areas, especially abroad, it's most common to have the bath in one room and the toilet in another. Partly, this is so that more people have access to the facilities where you have a whole family with one bathroom. Partly, however, it's for privacy and a tendency to like enclosure for certain functions. In those palatial master baths, they've gone back to putting the toilet in its own little room. Stalls with doors used to be very common in family bathrooms. Where they aren't in separate rooms, people like to site the toilet between the vanity and the tub, or behind a pony wall. Thus Lavender's cupboard separator.

Aliris's pictures seem to show a bathroom opening out of a laundry room which is a very different thing from a laundry room with a toilet hanging out in the middle of the room.

I think it's not the actual proximity of the plumbing to the laundry, but the lack of privacy implied by the lack of walls.


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

ooh ouch. I'm feeling a little bit embarrassed! Pulling those photos right now!


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sorry!

Sorry, Melissa -- I really had no inkling I was being offensive. And I tried to pull the photos from photobucket. They're gone as far as I can see, but still seem to be showing up here. Maybe there's a lag period. They should be gone soon. I absolutely didn't mean to offend anyone!

It's true the setup is kitchen-family room, then a hallway and a door to a laundry room that could have and was intended to have a door on it to the bathroom, but when push came to shove, just never seemed necessary. I put a lock on the laundry-room door. But functionally the rooms actually are separated.

You know, I first learned of "grownup" married life living in a NYC 800 sf apartment with my rather large and fairly crude SO. The setup was you walked into a room, then there was essentially an enclosed divider that a bathroom was stuck inside of; there was a kitchen on the other side and an area that was like a sitting room with a loft above it. It was all, basically, the size of a garage. I was shocked, at first, by the lack of privacy. I've gotten over it. But again, apologies if I'm forgetting that's not so for everyone.

And in my defense I'd like to note again for the record: (1) we are camped out in our house. There is no kitchen. There is one shower. and (2), the pictures - illadvised, I see now - were taken on the heels of a very panicked teenager racing not to be disqualified from an important sporting event. Cleanup hadn't yet happened.

And photos won't anymore either!


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Do NOT apologize for your comments or for posting your photos. You did nothing inappropriate.


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aliris, you were kind and helpful to post your photos and comments. I wasn't very involved in the topic, so just had a smile looking at those footprints. Ah, to have a pool.

If there's an "ick factor" in this thread, it would apply to those who judge/label the nice folks like you who take the time to respond and offer comments/photos.

As a mom with a teenage son who tends to arrive home with a bunch of buddies in tow, all of whom need to use the bathroom the minute they walk in the house, my belief is -- the more toilets, the better, no matter where they are.


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Again, everyone, I really appreciate your comments, thoughts, and pictures, and I know everyone was trying to be helpful (and was). I'm meeting with the GC this morning, and will discuss layout options. The space is not very large, and it may be difficult to have a separate, closed-off space for a toilet and still have adequate laundry space, which will have to be the first priority. But I'll see what he says.


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If you can't hide the toilet, you can hide the washer dryer. I've seen many WDs in bathrooms behind louver doors and no one bats an eyelash at that setup.

All you are trying to avoid is the "they just stuck a toilet in here" look. Yes, I have heard that kind of setup literally called trailer trash at every open house I attended with a toilet in an odd location--middle of basement, weird attic hallway, etc. And I have been to a lot of open houses.


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I agree with Marcolo, just visually partition one or the other. The question of sharing a locale is determined by YOUR use of the space. We are down to one toilet with this remodel and I'd love to have another, even in the kitchen at this point. Just kidding - well sort of...


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

I am going to chime in again from the perspective of someone who has grown up in two opposing types of environments each of which had reasons to cause a bit more pragmatism (?) or practicality when it came to toilet placement.

I grew up in an industrial town where the industry was carbon graphite. So,men would come home covered with black sooty stuff, and many houses had a shower and toilet in the basement and the shower might simply run down the floor drain. The older houses did not have a bathroom in the basement. They had a toilet and a shower in the basement. When dad came home from work you just didnt go into the basement.

My grandparents both still had outhouses in my lifetime. They had indoor plumbing but if you were outside working or if the pump was out or the electricity or generator was out you used the outhouse. And three out of four of my gradparents, all born in the 19th century, graduated from college at a time when a lot of people didn't finish high school (two had doctoral degrees, a grandmother included) so they were hardly trash.

I now live in a densely populated urban area of some of the oldest housing stock in the US. I was shocked at the number of houses in the 1960 census that did not have a full indoor bathroom even in "nice" neighborhoods. Many of the nineteenth century houses I looked at (if not most) have a toilet in the basement some in an ad-hoc powder room, most just sitting in the corner. They may have been the first toilet, but when the house got an upstairs bathroom, this one was retained for the "help". If you had a cleaning lady, she did not use the family bath. If you had a repairman at the house, he was directed to the basement if necessary.

I have looked at houses(and made an offer on one) that had a random toilet up on the top or attic floor tied into the top of the stack so people didn't have to stumble down flights of stairs in the middle of the night. These were in a closet. Better than using a chamber pot.

I don't think anyone suggested the toilet be placed next to the stove so someone could stir the stockpot and use the facilities at the same time, so I find the squeamishness -- a bit 'put on'.imo.


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I agree that the outrage does not fit the situation.

I have been to way more open houses than anyone here (sorry Marcolo) and have yet to hear people swoon in distress over a combo laundry room/bathroom. I do have a co-worker who detests when a bathroom opens into a kitchen and a toilet can be seen in the doorway. The same guy grew up in Brooklyn and had the bathtub in the kitchen in his childhood apt. It is a common enough layout for older houses, yet I always think of his perspective when I see it. I would try to not have the toilet visible from the kitchen, but if it is visible inside the laundry room, then it is no big deal. It is not like a guest is going to use the facilities while the owner is doing the laundry. It is simple enough for the 2 functions to share the same room.
Ventilation would be a necessity because you would not want anything wafting out....


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Back again. Having the toilet visible from the kitchen would be a bad thing. But I cannot understand what the big deal is about having a washing machine and a toilet " see" each other. Maybe you all have laundry rooms the size of my master bedroom and envision a random toilet stuck out in the middle of the room on display. This is not my set-up, nor do I think it's the set up of most who have no issue with a combo room.

My toilet is clean and not visible from the kitchen as the door is around the other wall. In my house, toilet lids are closed at all times when not in use, including while being flushed. My clean laundry does not sit around in piles on the floor where it could be sullied from bathroom use. And, maybe TMI, but DH sits to use the toilet almost always so he doesn't make a mess. I trained him well. ;)


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I used to live in a house that was designed for a pool in the back and it had a large bath that had an exterior door on the ground floor. And the laundry facilities. Eventually my mother made my dad put doors in front of the machines, and like many homes from that era, it didn't have a laundry sink at all, just a regular bathroom vanity. So it seems perfectly normal to me.


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

Sorry, dianolo, but the fact you haven't heard something doesn't affect the fact that I have. Many, many times.

This isn't an issue of sanitation, ickiness, 19th century maids, or anything else. Just having a toilet sitting in a room where it doesn't seem to belong has elicited a very negative comment from buyers each and every time I've seen it. This is from someone who spent five years looking for a house and went to multiple open houses each and every Sunday. I'm also in a market of very old wonky homes (Boston) so I'm perfectly familiar with the quirky accommodations people make.

I've never seen anyone object to laundry facilities in a bathroom--usually, they're in a closet, stacked, or behind doors or something. Nor to a powder room off a laundry room. Neither situation presents the specter of a toilet just randomly sitting in a room, which is what I'm warning against because it is just not perceived as desirable by buyers.

And yes, I've heard the term "trailer trash" more than once about this kind of setup from other open house attendees. If you want me to censor actual comments I've heard to shield people's delicate sensibilities, I'm afraid you've got the wrong guy.


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Clueless, I was simply referencing Aliris's own comments about the revealing photos.


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

Hmmm....why is it some responders seem to relish turning a perfectly nice conversation, into emotional name calling? Does everything have to be so extreme? You know, there is a hot topics forum, for those who love to stir up controversy. Maybe we could return to a more adult and helpful conversation, here on the kitchen forum...that would be nice :)


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

Well Marcolo, you may agree, the stupidity of people at open houses hasn't ceased to amaze me but perhaps it should.

"What is this room? A bedroom or an office? It has a bed and a computer...what is it?" "Is it a bathroom, is it a laundry room? Am I supposed to bathe in the washer? I'm getting a headache, get me out of here!"

I don't think I am amazed by the stupidity, I am just upset that they are so stupid and able to afford a house at the same price point I can.

I also feel like people that have to make public comments about the apparent Cl--- ( I won't say it) about something in some strangers house, are generally a bit over concerned about their relative position to the trailer, and they need to constantly reaffirm it.


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

If you can enclose the toilet in a small powder room at the end of the laundry room, that would be good. A legal powder room can be very small indeed (search previous threads), if you have room for a toilet, you only need an additional foot or two for a powder room.

If the toilet will be exposed in the laundry room, that will not be good. Doesn't matter how clean you keep it, too many enough potential buyers will think ''eww''.

Just look at this thread - count the ''ewws'' - doesn't matter if it is a rational reaction or not, the point is that plenty of people think that way and you're not going to be able to talk them out of it.


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

"What is this room? A bedroom or an office? It has a bed and a computer...what is it?"

Exactly. A lot of people actually seem upset by ambiguity.

In my neighborhood, people seem really thrown off by sun rooms. In my house, over my first-floor sun room I have an open deck that's reached through the master bedroom. But other similar houses have an enclosed room there, full of windows. It was either originally designed as a sleeping porch or just a second, more private sun room. Nobody seems to know what to do with it and often it fills up with junk and exercise equipment. People complain about the "flow." By contrast, I saw one homeowner had outfitted it as a very cute sitting room and it was a big hit. Same room, just different decor and furniture. Ridiculous.

But as johnliu points out, you have to deal with the potential buyers you have, not the ones you would like to have had.


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

I bought a preexisting bath off kitchen(can not see toilet from door tho) house and although i might not have chosen its location and at the time we purchased thought about removing it, I now find it's proximity to our pool, it is adjacent to the back door, a godsend. During pool parties only my kitchen and bath are used and the rest of the house stays neat. I would love to put a washer dyer in there if it had the space.

I only count 5 ewes and many "I do not think it is a bad idea." And,if and when you go to sell, it is frowned upon pull it out if need be. But water trekked thru the house seems more off putting to me.

I do like Plllog's pool house idea alot and have been for 2 years trying to get DH to see the need but it is very $$ to put plumbing outside and in our street it would not be permitted by code.


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

I can't tell you how much I appreciate everyone's thoughts. I'm now totally flip-flopping on what I want. I was leaning towards a large lovely laundry room that would appeal to buyers, who wouldn't miss a bathroom there since they'd never experienced it. It's a large house, and will probably appeal to a large family (we have 5 kids), so a laundry room with ample space would probably be a selling plus. And one of the builders said the pipework could be in place so it could be advertised as ready for a little powder room if a buyer wanted to put it in in some form. OTOH, a toilet would be so nice to have there--but the builder said we can't wall the whole thing off, although we could do a pony wall--have to talk to him about a panel instead, but he'll probably say not possible--and I now think that I'd want the toilet totally enclosed...aargh! The GC said, "you can do anything you want, but not everything you want." Yup.


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

Natal - my apologies if I misspoke, last night it read unkind. Glad it wasn't the case!


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

This is off topic but I know two sellers that (in *this market) refused to sell their houses to a particular owner. One woman just got up during the negotiations and told the buyers "I don't *like you, and I am not selling you my house to live in". The other turned down two different offers, both by people who planned to gut the house. So, sometimes people will wait for the buyer they want, not just the one they can have.

On the other hand I know someone who was horrified to find out that the buyers of his significant, architecturally acclaimed (architecture buffs would recognize a picture), but smallish house was going to be used for its two-stall garage and its boat slip as a secure launching off site to the owners *real house. At a price of $3M--he sold it anyway, he was ready to let go.


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

The original poster and subsequent posters have all indicated, and we would all agree, that in a perfect world toilets would always be closeted and preferably somewhat remote from living spaces.

When it comes to compromise, some are more amenable to suboptimal placement than others. To imply in anyway that such a compromise is "trailer trash" is unnecessarily controversial, whether it was overheard by random home buyers or not.

And to make fun of the condition of someone's house, who was hardly doing a FKB reveal, seems unfair.

The PO here had some unusual compromises as they expanded a 1904 farmhouse while preserving parts of it and complying with wetlands and zoning. I won't say what we paid for the house, but at the peak it appraised for $3 million. It is permanently sited, It does not have a hitch and is not modular. We own the home and also the land it sits on. ; )

The house had two powder rooms on the first floor. It also had his and his bathrooms, with one off either side of the MBR.

However, it had a powder room in the kitchen. It appears i did not photograph it but, in the photo below, the doorknob would have been all the way to the right. You couldn't flip your omelette from the seat, but you could see if your tea had boiled.

It, and all that you see, is gone. Bad decisions are zip-code-blind.

Photobucket

PS The goofy staging is not mine, and neither is the leather armadillo.


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

I don't understand why, if there's room for a pony wall, that wall cannot be extended upward. Perhaps with a pocket door. And if you're going that far, you should add a tiny--and I do mean tiny--hand-washing sink in with the toilet.

The other option is hiding the WD or making them less obtrusive. Then you present the room as a bathroom, with hey, look! a WD in it. People don't seem to object to that, for some reason.


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

And to make fun of the condition of someone's house, who was hardly doing a FKB reveal, seems unfair.

I'll probably take away these photos soon as they're so sloppy and bad, and well, betray what slobs we are -- guess it's not the photos' fault, really.


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

Looks like you have to choose -- full-size laundry OR a powder room (or shower bath) with a stacked W/D behind louvered doors. I've seen MANY vacation rental bathrooms with machines behind louvers.

The most used 'facility' in our house is the back hall powder room. The back hall is a long rectangle with laundry area at one end and powder room opposite a closet at the other end. Doors to garage and to kitchen are directly opposite one another in the middle of the rectangle. There's a half-glass door to the side yard at the powder room end. Absent this powder room, one would have to cross the kitchen and go past the DR and LR and foyer to the library, where there is a 'guest' powder room.


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RE: laundry room--toilet?

Since everyone was so generous with their thoughts I wanted to share my decision with you. I was convinced, after reading the posts, that the best way to make this work, from a resale perspective, was to completely wall off the toilet. However, the space just isn't that big, and would make the difference between a nice laundry room and one which felt cramped. Given the size of the house (7 bedrooms), a future buyer will probably, like us, have a large family. So a larger, more user-friendly laundry room seems the way to go. We'll put a sink in, and it can still double as a changing room for the pool and a place to drop wet suits and towels. I found everyone's comments extremely helpful--thanks so much!


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

A generous laundry room certainly can be pleasant. Not to drive you crazy, but if you do a lot of laundry you may find a second dryer or second washing machine a good idea.

good luck!


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

It would be helpful visually if you indicated this room as a pool/laundry by perhaps stacking rolled beach towels on shelves behind and above the toilet or in a shelving unit. We have a small beach house and the first floor bathroom has rolled stacked beach towels on shelves behind the toilet. Perhaps add a large colorful tub and a sign for towels. Think about adding a folding screen to cover household storage, junk, so that the focus is on the toilet(for pool people), laundry for pool towels(and family)--could put up a 'family' washroom sign like those used in restaurants and malls-if it would fit with a light-hearted scheme. Or a 'pool washroom' sign, again, if it fits with the attitude.


If it looks like what it is, a pool convenience, it won't look strange to me.


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

YES! Westsider...that's exactly what I was thinking, but didn't put it together. In my business (publishing), we sometimes say "we don't have to stick with the rules, we can do something different....we just need to do it well."

The things you've suggested will make it clear what this room is and it won't be strange or confusing to would-be buyers at all. And it won't be a toilet stuck in some random room, it will be the pool washroom. Some may still not like the yuk factor of mixing clean laundry and a commode, but I think they'll be in the minority.

However, I think the OP has made her decision and gone the other way, which is fine too, of course.


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RE: laundry room off kitchen--toilet?

If you haven't completly made your decision I think how the space is configured is important. Our old home had a laundry room/powder room and it worked quite well. The room was about 5.5 x 11 with a door at one narrow end and a window at the other. The sink was closest to the door followed by the toilet, then a partial wall and the laundry. If you want the laundry sink to double as a laundry sink I would do a granite top with a drop in or undermount laundry sink on a vanity to make it feel more like a rest room. I agree with the poster above that if it is staged correctly it would be a plus.


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