Read the "New to kitchens, read me" thread which is usually on the first or 2nd page. It will tell you how to post photos and so much more.

Boy, that's a tuffie. There are some other issues, but the big two for me is that the kitchen IS a major hallway and not sure about prioritizing casual seating for 14 when the kitchen proper is kinda - trying to find something polite to say - ineffective.

I wonder what your feelings would be about something like moving the kitchen and informal dining around? How big can the opening above the current sink be? (if you know). I guess I'm also wondering why the seating areas and kitchen aren't closer to the windows? Did the sunroom used to be a porch or something?

It's not because I'm thinking of anything in particular - except maybe something like make part of that space a hallway with pantry space, maybe partly drinks or snack zone or cleanup. Restart the kitchen in the sunroom?

Another thought - informal dining where the kitchen is currently? Something cozy that could become buffet or bar if you entertain - or something that doubled as pantry/dish storage as well as seating. Would the space between the family room doorways be a good place for something like a desk/study? or a Walk-through pantry - closed on one side and open shelves on the other?

Thanks so much for the input bmorepanic.

The layout is ineffective, the kitchen is grand central terminal, and every time I think about radically changing it I get a little stuck.

As you surmised, the sun room is an addition. When I was a kid it was a porch off of the family room, and there were windows at the sink and table. The sink wall holds plumbing (and venting) for the kitchen and bathroom on the second floor, as well as electrical and HVAC. By placing the rangetop on the sink wall I was hoping to make its presence look purposeful, as opposed to "I'm stuck with this wall." Removing it would require major construction and support beams.

I like the idea of putting the kitchen in the sun room - essentially flipping the sink without moving the "wall where ideas go to die." Thus far I haven't been able to get it to work but I never considered walling off the second exit from the family room and using that space too. I think I'll give it a go and see what I can come up with. I'll re-post when I get something.

Thanks! E

OK bmorepanic, I'm not there yet, but I thought I'd get some feedback on whether the direction I'm heading in is more toward the inspired or peculiar... Thanks. E

Here is a link that might be useful:

Hi, EAM44. Boy, do you love built-in seating. Is it that you have very little space to work with, less than can be realized from the area pictured?

Please post a to-scale diagram of this entire part of your home, including entry and utility areas, family, dining, living spaces, etc. That way you'll get some really good workable ideas to consider.

Hi EAM44! This is rough space but I have an idea I hope will work out for you. This is just a rough idea so needs some tweaking, probably mostly on the banquette position.

The "Dish Storage & Pantry" is from a previous draft and should be just "Pantry".. I would think Dish Storage would be the cabinet adjacent to the dishwasher.

Hope this helps!

PS: I closed up the top family room opening, but otherwise there are no walls except for your plumbing/structural L-shaped wall. This gives you a nice deep prep space on the peninsula across from the rangetop, plus open counter on that bottom Dish Storage cab next to the dishwasher as a drop zone for dishes from the eating area.

I read your Gallery thread - I would just drywall in your Pantry to avoid the pantry cabinetry expense.

Hi Rosie - it was perfectly obvious to you, and yet I didn't even realize I was doing it. I guess after years of having the kitchen table be essentially in a hallway, I subconsciously decided to eliminate that irritation. Built-in seating is not a must, and perhaps those who have it find it inefficient?

I added the rest of the first floor of the house drawn to scale (as is the "proposed" kitchen) at the link below. I knew the kitchen was small, but it is actually dwarfed by the rest of the house. Perhaps I can come up with a design that brings it more in balance... Thanks for your input! E

Here is a link that might be useful:

Tracie.erin - thanks so much for this plan, and for using your brain to help me! I was concerned that putting anything on the wall between FR and kitchen would look odd when entering from the hall, but I guess that's not necessarily so. And great idea about the drywall pantry. This is totally cool... Thanks. E

Wow, typo city on my posts. Can you tell I was rushing out to to lunch? :) You are very welcome by the way, but doing this is fun and no trouble.

It looks like you probably have a nice view to the outside from the front door through the french doors to the garden. I don't think it would be weird to have the kitchen in that space as long as you can maintain that nice view. I had something similar (a view from front door out a huge bay window) in my house; it's part of why we bought it. I regret making that window smaller as part of my kitchen reno (and I made it a lot smaller than it could have been, I was just trying to max out storage :/). Therefore, I wouldn't want your view interfered with, but I don't think this layout would do that. I do think that the kitchen would frame the view.

Some people also do not care to have the kitchen in view of the front door; you will have to think if you care about that. Mine is VERY visible. With this layout, some cabinetry and maybe the side of rangetop would be the most visible item from the front door. Neither your fridge nor your sink - and all the messes that come with the sink - would be visible from the front door, which is nice. You can get a pretty hood and make the rangetop a focal point; or you might consider a panel or tall cabinet to block the view of the rangetop side counter (scoot rangetop down on the wall a bit if you do this so it's not cramped on that side). There are lots of ways to do this.

I see from your whole-house layout that you need to keep both entrances to the family room - the top one for traffic to the hall and powder room, and the bottom one for traffic out to the garden. Here is another layout that accomplishes that. I've made both family room entrances the same size in order to provide some balance to the family room. I've also labeled things a little better. :)

BUMP for EAM44.

On my last layout, I would probably swap the Fridge with the snack center. This would avoid the Fridge and Dishwasher opening into each other.

Thanks tracie.erin.

I am now struggling with trying to leave the plumbing in my house alone - in your plan that means moving the sink back to where it was. I want to spend my money on things I can see, and having rented a home with terrible retrofitted plumbing, I don't want to create plumbing problems where there currently are none. So, it's back to the drawing board again.

It's going to be difficult to come up with a really good layout. It's generally a lot more fun to think about appliances and finishes. Problem is, it makes me feel really acquisitive (I want this, I want that...). Me, me, me. Want, want, want... At least with the layout I feel like I'm solving a problem.