What immediately jumps out at me is the poor placement of the dishwasher. You can't stand at the sink and load the dishwasher.

Can you maybe move the sink to the short end of the L and place the dishwasher in the corner? You might lose some storage space but, IMHO, it is worth it to have a functional dishwashing space.

I agree about the poor dishwasher placement, which is part of the frustrating part about finding a good place for the sink. The biggest drawback about moving the sink to the short part of the "L" is that the sink then would be staring at a wall. The far right wall is the front of the house, and I want to keep the placement of the window consistent with the rest of the house so shifting the window really isn't an option :-(

Would putting the dishwasher on the small part of the L (to the right of the wastebasket cabinet) be awkward?

As others have pointed out, the DW is poorly placed. Here's how to fix that:

I simply moved it to the right side of the sink with the planned for 18" cab between sink and fridge (a minimum of a 12" cab between sink and DW is recommended). Yes, that eliminates the angled cab but frankly, that's a poor choice since they aren't space efficient and you don't really need to angle that corner, IMO.

I would also caution you against making your windows narrower than they are. I have 4' windows for my corner sink; 30" windows would feel claustrophobic especially with the cabinets on each side crowding the sink area. Have you taken inventory of what you need to store in your kitchen? If not, do it. If so, and you really need more storage, perhaps there's another way to gain you the storage you need without shrinking your windows. One suggestion is to bring the cabs on the exterior wall to line up with the island. That looks like it might gain you another 18" cabinet. I'd shrink the 18" between DW and sink to a 12" cab so that the cab to the right of the DW can be 24" wide.

I don't normally suggest going narrower with cabs but in this case, I think you come out ahead.

Speaking of narrow cabs, is there a reason why you are choosing 15" and 18" cabs next to the range? If you have specific uses for these cabs and they need to be this size, great. If not, know that narrower cabs limit what you can store in them, plus it's more expensive (twice the hardware). I'd combine these with the 24" cab taking the place of the DW and go with a 30" and a 27" cab instead. But again, I don't know what you plan to store in these cabs so perhaps these sizes work best for you.

Oh, I also added a prep sink to the island. I totally get the "keep the island clear" goal but a prep sink would make your kitchen function so much better. One person can be prepping on the island, another can prep between sink and range and another can be putting away dirty dishes or getting dishes and silverware to set the table. That's a plus for a family of soon-to-be 6, IMO. A prep sink is also a plus when doing art projects on the island.

I just counted the squares for your dining area and it looks like you only have 8' between wall and island counter. That's really, really, *really* tight spacing for a table, chairs and island seating. Is this your only dining room? Are you open to doing banquette seating on the long wall? With a 36" wide table overhanging a 24" deep bench by 4", you'd have a 40" aisle between island and table. That's still way below recommended minimums (60") for back to back seating.

couldn't you swap it to the right of the sink? i see you have a filler there so that should allow you to have the door open while at the sink(i think)
if i am seeing your plan correctly, you have 2 windows in the corner so for me, having the sink there is a neccessity. i can't imagine a sink without a window:)
the wall opposite the sink is very similar to mine. i have 2 30"&1 36" wall cabs with matching drawer bases beneath. i love having that long unbroken counterspace for baking and other prep.

Lisa's changes were exactly my thoughts when I first looked at your plan. In fact, it makes for a very functional space for 1 or more cooks. Honestly, I would suggest losing island seating all together with a table so close by.

Thanks for the great suggestions :-) All of the windows in the house are wood cased double hung, and the largest size I could find in the windows we are using as a replacement are 36" wide (I think 42" would have been perfect). We have to replace them because I currently only have 24" underneath them. Would putting more dead space between the windows and wall cabinets help minimize the claustrophobic feeling? Since I only have 5 cabinets right now, I could easily shrink the wall cabinets and still have way more storage space then I have right now!

Right now I wanted a drawer bank somewhere near the range so I had an 18" bank, and filled in the rest of the space with another cabinet. I don't think I want to go bigger than 24" for the drawers, though. I can put them where the dishwasher was, and make the other cabinet 33" instead. Or should I put the drawers in the island instead? You've made some convincing arguments for a prep island in the sink :-) I'm definitely going to have to consider it!

Also, right now our hardwood flooring ends at the doorway to the kitchen. The alignment of the cabinet ending with the old wall lets me easily put a different kind of flooring in the kitchen (we're leaning towards tile). If I extend the run of cabinets along the short part of the L, how would I handle the floor? Would I need to try and match my existing hardwood (it's the original 1947 solid strip oak, albeit refinished) and extend it into the kitchen? Or would I just not worry that some of the cabinets are over tile and others are over wood (not really liking that idea)? Or something else?

This is my only dining room (right now my 3 bed house is 1160 square feet), and we're only adding a master bed/bath and laundry room to the rear. It is a tight space now as well. What I forgot to put in the drawing are the windows in the dining room. There is a fixed one along the kitchen wall about 3" from the corner that is 60" x 60" (24" underneath again), and another as the corner turns that is a 48" x 60" double hung. Would that affect my ability to do banquet seating? I hadn't even considered that, and don't really know how to do that. Is it just short cabinets with a cushion or something on top? I'm assuming they would be the same height as a standard chair. Right now our dining room table is a 36" x 54" pill shaped table with extensions...

I have a love/hate relationship with all the windows in my house (There is one on *every* exterior wall in every room)! I love the light & ventilation, but I hate the limitations they place on where I can put my furniture :-)

Thanks again for all the helpful suggestions and feedback!!!

I have a corner window sink in an older home and can lend some perspective here. Putting it to the right works. Don't forget they will need some type of end panel (usually 3") to support the counter. You'll want some drawers either to the left of the DW or on the island. Dishes can go in the uppers and the cutlery in the drawers. By placing them in close proximity it makes it easier to unload. Also, having it that end means someone can set the table without intruding on the work zone.

Your aisles do look narrow to me, but I have the sense that your DR is constrained. What are the dimensions?

I have a few inches around my windows, but my windows are wider. I agree it could feel closed in.

You can easily patch existing oak and get it to blend; a good flooring guy can work magic.

A banquette generally does have an angled seat back; a bench could be used with no back (19 high seats) but it would need to be made deeper. You could also have a custom back made but at 24" it might be a bit too low, instead you could do something a few inches above the sill to provide some lumbar support and keep people (kids) from leaning against the windows.. Mine is 33" and it is on the lower side.

Example with no back :

[

[Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Boston Interior Designers & Decorators Rachel Reider Interiors

Mine peaks just above the window sill. (I used modular units rather than full custom so I could switch to a regular table if I wanted to later on)

I can understand why in the "olden days" people wanted their sink under a window -- because they spent a lot of time washing dishes. Nowadays, I think its highly overrated -- how much time do you spend at the sink looking out the window? I'd much rather have a sink facing a wall (in fact, I do) than a non-functional arrangement.

I'll definitely be adding a support panel or cabinet to the end of the dishwasher run... The measurement up to the outside edge of the kitchen wall is 96" (instead of 90", so not much gain there), and my dining room is 116" x 83". The rest of the space on the drawing (where the "A" is on Lisa's drawing) is the living room, and traffic flow to the hallway/rest of house. I though about shifting the dining room, but then it interferes with the traffic flow. Would making the island a little smaller help open things up? (Thanks for the picture of a banquet bench, btw. It helps!)

Right now my design has about 6" from the edge of the window to where each of the wall cabinets begins. Would 12" be better to open it up?

SJhockeyfan - I'm a big Sharks fan, too :-)! Right now I spend ridiculous amounts of time staring out my window while I'm washing dishes (and keeping it open helps me hear the kiddos better when they are outside playing). I'm hoping I spend less time washing dishes once I get that dishwasher, but I'm also hoping to keep a little bit of style in a functional arrangement if at all possible :-)

I'll upload a couple files of the whole house floor plan as is & going to be, and some pics of the LR/DR/Kit...

I realized when I opened up my drawing and looked at your plan on a larger scale, that I might not have misjudged your dining area (the edge of the paper may not be the where the wall is). Seeing the whole house would definitely help me envision other lay-out possibilities for you so that you can find the best way to use your space.

Okay, here are some more details (our architect is drawing by hand so please excuse the pic of the blueprints instead of a file :-)) And don't mind my mess :-)

Here is a picture of the traffic flow area adjacent to the living room. This wall will all be gone, with the exception of the last 3 feet or so...

Here is a picture of the dining room

Here is a picture of the front corner of the kitchen (the two windows will be getting smaller)

A couple more pics of the kitchen. The window over the existing sink will be going away to make space for the range. The laundry room is through the door at the far end right now, but will be moving to the rear of the house.

Our current floorplan

Our expanded floorplan (more or less - there are some slight adjustment that I don't have drawings for)

Lyn, since this is your thread, I can digress :-) Did you hear about Drew Remenda leaving the Sharks? I'm bummed.

I did hear, but I didn't hear exactly where he was going :-( I'm pretty bummed about it too... I just hope he comes back like when he left us for Calgary (was it?)...

If it were me, and I'm no expert, I would consider leaving the sink where it is and leaving the window there. Move the range to the L portion, and remove a window on that side.

My thinking in part is you will end up with very little natural light if you eliminate one window and shrink the other two to 30". I'm not a big fan of removing windows at all, and would rethink my whole layout if that's what was necessary to get the range on that wall.

I absolutely love the light I get in my kitchen right now, and considered keeping the sink/window as is, but ultimately I think it made it feel as if I was trying to squeeze in the range somewhere that it didn't really fit. Due to the alignment of the corner windows (they're just 3" from the corner) removing just one of them doesn't really gain me anything, but does cost me a lot of light. The windows will actually be 36" x 42" (not 30"), so they are not quite that small. One faces south, and the other west so they get tons of natural light through them. Also, removing a window from the front of the house there would make by house view look lopsided. Here's a picture of how it looks from the street right now. The front kitchen window is on the far right, and the one around the corner is visible from the street also.

In order to put the range on the short part of the L, and put in the micro-hood (most functional for our kitchen), the range would need to start at least 48" down the wall, which means my oven door would block the traffic flow into the kitchen, right? With the kiddos that like to run that makes me a little nervous...

I totally agree with SJhockey about the window. Don't let "must have sink over window" prevent you from having a great layout.

With a DW how much time is actually spent at the sink and when you are there what are you doing? If I'm at my sink I have my eyes down actually doing something. I now have a window over the sink (it just happened that way) but didn't for 20 years and never gave it a thought. Even now I rarely look out the window if I'm at the sink. I will look out that window if I'm sitting at the island or just standing around waiting for water to boil and such.

The same thing with prep work. If you are cutting and dicing and other stuff, you can't be gazing out the window.

I'd turn the whole thing 90 degrees and go into the dining area. Use that whole wall. Put your dining area over by the entry.

I really like Christina's suggestion! Use what is currently the dining area corner with 2 windows for the sink and put the dishwasher next it it where you can open it while at the sink.

I had never even considered flipping things around, and was very intrigued by the idea... Here is a really quick version of it flipped around. I think I like the open-ness of it, but the sink didn't really fit in the front right corner at an angle, so I had to put it on one of the walls and it feels a little off balance, and I feel like I lose some valuable cabinet storage space. Also, it would mean replacing 2 more windows with slightly smaller ones (again, so that cabinets will actually fit under them) and losing more light. What do you think?

"Right now I wanted a drawer bank somewhere near the range so I had an 18" bank, and filled in the rest of the space with another cabinet. I don't think I want to go bigger than 24" for the drawers, though. I can put them where the dishwasher was, and make the other cabinet 33" instead. Or should I put the drawers in the island instead? You've made some convincing arguments for a prep island in the sink :-) I'm definitely going to have to consider it! "
* You'll find that we are heavily into drawers here. We would all suggest that you put drawers any place you possibly can - so it's not a "instead" with putting drawers in the island...it's an "also". Almost all of my lowers are drawers and I love it. If you look at many of our finished kitchens, you will find that those who came here before their cabinets were ordered are mostly drawer based. Really, you can almost never have too many drawers. I'm curious why you don't want to go wider than 24" for a drawer? My most functional drawers are my 30" to 36" ones. Depending on the construction, you could go with a 42" drawer, but you want to be sure that the construction is designed to hold - do a search for a2gemini's drawer failure for more info on that. But, if you have a 42" wide area, I might do a 33" drawer base and then a 9" wide base roll out cabinet to put in spices or make that into a cookie sheet cabinet. Although now reading through, it looks like your plan might be changing as you're getting more feedback.

"Also, right now our hardwood flooring ends at the doorway to the kitchen. The alignment of the cabinet ending with the old wall lets me easily put a different kind of flooring in the kitchen (we're leaning towards tile). If I extend the run of cabinets along the short part of the L, how would I handle the floor? Would I need to try and match my existing hardwood (it's the original 1947 solid strip oak, albeit refinished) and extend it into the kitchen? Or would I just not worry that some of the cabinets are over tile and others are over wood (not really liking that idea)? Or something else? "
* We opened up a wall between the kitchen and DR. DR had original red oak hardwood from 1950. We had circa 1960's rolled linoleum in the kitchen. We took the flooring out in the kitchen to subfloor and then fingered in new red oak. The match isn't completely flawless - the old boards tended to be a bit longer than the new. There is some shade variation that is different between the old and new, but with the table and cabinetry in, you can't really tell that much (from what I remember - our floor is still covered with hardboard because we aren't fully finished yet.) But, all in all, we were very pleased with having a continuous floor material.

"Would that affect my ability to do banquet seating? I hadn't even considered that, and don't really know how to do that. Is it just short cabinets with a cushion or something on top? I'm assuming they would be the same height as a standard chair. Right now our dining room table is a 36" x 54" pill shaped table with extensions... "
* We had windows to contend with as well when doing our banquette seating. Please excuse the mess in the photo - the GC used the seating area as his "staging" point for a bunch of stuff. Also noticed that I have the vase of flowers sitting there - my mom gave them to me from her garden when I was stressing about how everything was so messed up with the house...such a sweet thing for her to do...in the confusion, I didn't remember to take a picture of them...but now looking back, I guess that I inadvertently *did* get a photo of them. :)

Anyway, the point is, we were able to have a lower back on our banquette seating. The back goes right up to meet the window sill. We will be putting a cushion on the seat and up the back. We may have a few pillows as well. You don't have to have a back, although I think it will make sitting a little more comfortable.

Andrea - I really love the banquet seating you've got (and it looks like it will match our style). Did you build it? Buy it? Does it have storage built in?

Right now, I only have 3 functional drawers in my kitchen, so I am looking forward to having more, but the types of things I store in my cabinets don't really store well in drawers. The bulk of my cabinet space is taken up by cookware, small appliances, food, and food storage containers. My husband refuses to have plastic, so all of our food containers are glass (and I'm not sure how well that will store in a drawer). I can see how a drawer might work for the cookware. How would you compare them against a cabinet with pull-out trays?

With regards to the drawer size, it seems like when they get too big I can't find good dividers for them, and then my utensils and stuff just end up in a big jumble. I am definitely open to suggestions on how to solve this (I'm really learning a lot from this community!!!).

Wow, I really appreciate everybody's help and feedback! I'm looking forward to having fantastic, functional kitchen :-)

I like it pivoted around like that! Is there any way to put the sink closer to the fridge? Swap the sink and the range maybe? My workflow is more fridge-sink-range, if yours is also you'll save some steps by getting the sink closer to the fridge.

This post was edited by Christina222 on Sun, Jun 22, 14 at 19:08

Jumping in to answer your drawer questions:

"The bulk of my cabinet space is taken up by cookware, small appliances, food, and food storage containers. ...How would you compare them against a cabinet with pull-out trays?"

Drawers hold way more and are stronger. I had one cabinet with pull outs and a bank of drawers in my old kitchen. All drawers now. They'll do great for your storage containers and small appliances as long as you plan for what you have. I can't speak to food as mine is all in a big pantry cabinet.

"With regards to the drawer size, it seems like when they get too big I can't find good dividers for them, and then my utensils and stuff just end up in a big jumble. I am definitely open to suggestions on how to solve this (I'm really learning a lot from this community!!!)."

Woodhollow is your answer here! After market, totally custom and super affordable. You give your measurements and they make beautiful wood dividers to fit.

Here is a link that might be useful: Woodhollow

Lynn - I'll try to answer back from your prior post:

"I really love the banquet seating you've got (and it looks like it will match our style). Did you build it? Buy it? Does it have storage built in?"
* First, thank you for overlooking all the mess that is surrounding the reno! I hated to post that photo, but it was the only one I had handy showing the seating. Our cabinet maker built the banquette seating to our specs. It is completely custom sized. It butts up against where the cabinets end, runs to the corner of the room and then makes the L. The back was designed to have a slope back for comfort and it it a little shorter than we might have otherwise designed it due to the windows...you can see that the back goes to directly under the windows. The sill actually pretty much rests over the top of the seat back. The portion that you can see as you look straight on has three drawers. The furthest one back toward the corner will hold only things that I don't need to get to often since I will have to crawl under the table to get to it. The middle one will have some lesser used items as well, but more often needed than the left most one. And the 3rd one (closest to our cabinetry) will hold more often needed items.

What you can't see for the seating that is closest to the left side is that there is one long drawer in there. It's 48" deep and has heavy duty glides on it. We could have gone a little deeper, but the cost for the glides began growing exponentially and it was really not worth it.

The amount of storage this gave us is wonderful. And there are always things that you have for your kitchen that you use just a few times a year - this gives a place for them to live.
"Right now, I only have 3 functional drawers in my kitchen, so I am looking forward to having more, but the types of things I store in my cabinets don't really store well in drawers. The bulk of my cabinet space is taken up by cookware, small appliances, food, and food storage containers. My husband refuses to have plastic, so all of our food containers are glass (and I'm not sure how well that will store in a drawer). I can see how a drawer might work for the cookware. How would you compare them against a cabinet with pull-out trays? "
* My cookware, dishes, food storage containers (some glass, some plastic), pots, and pans are ALL in drawers. It works wonderfully. I have a few places for small appliances - one is an appliance garage located in one of our tall cabinets. Another is a Hafele LeMans unit that fits in our corner cabinet. And then finally, I have my KitchenAid mixer in it's own cabinet with a lift, there's a roll out under the lift that holds my hand mixer and a few baking supplies. The appliance garage holds my coffee pot, blender and toaster. The LeMans unit holds my iced tea maker, crockpot, vacuum sealer, and food processor. The attachments to the food processor are in a bottom drawer where I keep my food storage containers.

When possible, use a drawer instead of doors with roll-outs/pull-outs. It's less steps to get to what you need. That said, I do have a pantry that has roll-outs and tall units that have rollouts in the top portions. For food storage, I think that it's harder to utilize drawers.

The trick to drawers is that you need to decide what you are putting where before you ever purchase your cabinets. I made a preliminary layout and then after I had that, I created a plan for all of my stuff and adjusted cabinet sizes and drawers to suit what my needs were. It's a lot of leg work up front, but is well worth it in the end.

"With regards to the drawer size, it seems like when they get too big I can't find good dividers for them, and then my utensils and stuff just end up in a big jumble. I am definitely open to suggestions on how to solve this (I'm really learning a lot from this community!!!)."
* You just need dividers. Woodhollow that was mentioned just prior by Christina has had several good reports here. I'm looking into an acrylic solution right now for my drawers, but I haven't had first hand experience with any of the places I've found at this point, so I can't give feedback on that as a possibility. But for sure, a lot of people have been happy with Woodhollow.