Return to the Kitchens Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Layout Help - Want everything! Can I have it?

Posted by Cinjos (My Page) on
Fri, Jun 28, 13 at 0:54

Hi all,

Opinions, please! You are all so amazing at this.

Because I want the double wall ovens and the deep fridge and the pantries and the island without the sink and the desk, I feel like the design is all over the place. What do you think? (Note that the corner between the wall oven and fridge was drawn too small and the fridge will be shifted down.)

Thanks,
Cindy


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Layout Help - Want everything! Can I have it?

Here is another drawing.


 o
RE: Layout Help - Want everything! Can I have it?

I didn't mention that the kitchen is completely open to the main floor open concept space.


 o
RE: Layout Help - Want everything! Can I have it?

Get rid of the dumping ground of the desk area and put in a walk in pantry elsewhere. Then you can have most of what you want. But, you'll need a prep sink on the island if you want to have help in the kitchen and not stand in time out in the corner between the sink and cooktop. The fridge needs to go where you show the pantry, with just a slim pull out pantry or broom closet between it and the wall. Or, do a smaller wing wall there and skip the expensive pantry cabinet. I'd also eliminate the other wing wall where you have the double oven and just run the cabinets straight across with no corner and the wall ovens ending the run. You'd have room for a larger island then.


 o
RE: Layout Help - Want everything! Can I have it?

Thanks, Hollysprings! I do actually need the desk and the window dips lower there, so I thought it would work well. Problem is, neither the oven nor the fridge fit on the pantry wall because of the dishwasher next to the sink. Am I better off with uppers and lowers there?

I considered doing a straight run as you suggest with the oven and the fridge next to it. The wing wall at that end is supporting and can't come out, so I didn't want to lose the wall space. Should I just let it go?

If I decide to keep it as is, do you think that the little pantry flanking the fridge makes sense to give it more of a built-in look or should I lose it?

Thanks again!!
Cindy


 o
RE: Layout Help - Want everything! Can I have it?

I would agree with ditching the cabinet pantries, putting the ovens next to the sink and a prep sink on the island. As pointed out, the island could become longer so you wouldn't be losing much or any space with the addition of the prep sink.

I would ditch the desk too but it seems you need it. Instead, I'm wondering if you could do a counter height desk. It could double as a work station and buffet space when needed. Here is clergychick's:

Alternatively, if you cannot find pantry space elsewhere in the house, I would put a shallow pantry that is partially in between the studs on the wall that currently has the ovens. IE, the fridge and ovens go together as previously suggested, but make sure they don't butt up to that wing wall. Then, put that shallow pantry to the corner. Yes, you will have some dead space in that corner. Here's cindyandmocha's similar pantry:



She says it's the best idea they had for the whole kitchen remodel, is 7' deep but only eats up 3' of actual floor space. Yours can be maybe 12' deep if you like. Shallow pantries hold a lot and the nice thing about them is that you don't 'lose' anything to the back depths and can't find them, buy doubles, etc. I wish DH would have let us rip out the closet pantry that cramps the dining room (yes, the DR) and put this in. C&M put a header in but honestly I would probably just work around the studs :) I'll link her thread in case you want to read more.

Finally, diagonal upper corner cabinets are hard to access and are made to be bookended by rectangular cabinets so they look weird when they are not. I'd do an EZ access corner cabinet instead:

Anywho I wrote all that out and then did a layout for you anyway so here it is. :) You didn't provide an aerial layout with measurements (please do!) so I guessed about what would fit based on the scale of your elevations and made my own which is of course rough and thus out of scale.

 photo cinjos1_zps3e80b7c4.jpg

Here is a link that might be useful: link to cindyandmocha's finished kitchen thread


 o
RE: Layout Help - Want everything! Can I have it?

Wow! Tracy Erin, thanks so much for the detailed response. I am definitely thinking that I need to just go straight across the back wall now and forget about that corner. I do love getting a longer island! So, how do I decide the placement of pantry/refrigerator/ovens?

I like the idea of 16"pantry/36"fridge/16"pantry/30"oven so that I have the counter next to the oven. I would want the pantries and OTF cupboard to be as deep as the fridge (36"). Can I do that? (The wall behind is concrete block, so no way to recess.)

I'm sad to be giving up a coffee corner, but I guess I can't have everything. As for the desk, it's in front of a low window, so the counter drops anyway.

I've attached the floor plan with measurements.

Thanks again!
Cindy


 o
RE: Layout Help - Want everything! Can I have it?

What if you put a desk on the short wall shown to the right of the desk and I would do a narrow deck in a cabinet like a2gemini's on that wall, facing away from the kitchen.


 o
RE: Layout Help - Want everything! Can I have it?

That corner would be awful to try and get in to....and useless countertop space. I agree....ditch the corner...get a longer island...and the shallow pantries, if possible.

I had a 9' wall of shallow pantries in my last house and it was great for food and accessory storage.


 o
RE: Layout Help - Want everything! Can I have it?

Ditching the wing walls and the desk area would be the most functional suggestions for the space. Desks are dumping grounds and completely unused in most kitchens. A laptop or tablet can be a "desk" in any chair that you want to sit at.


 o
RE: Layout Help - Want everything! Can I have it?

Measured plan - fantastic, thank you! Comments - your aisles look to be about 36" cabinet to cabinet, which shrinks to 33" when account for standard countertop overhang of 1.5" on each side. Also, you have room for 24" of pantries max unless you decrease the counter space on either side of the cooktop, which I would not do. So, I have done up the following for you:

 photo cinjos2_zps66fae462.jpg

So, how do I decide the placement of pantry/refrigerator/ovens?

I like the idea of 16"pantry/36"fridge/16"pantry/30"oven so that I have the counter next to the oven. I would want the pantries and OTF cupboard to be as deep as the fridge (36"). Can I do that? (The wall behind is concrete block, so no way to recess.)

If you prefer the deeper pantries, definitely put those in on the top wall with the fridge and ovens instead of the shallow ones on the wing wall. I was just trying to get more space around the cooktop but I think you'll be fine regardless.

Based on your preferences, I would probably do (going from wing wall towards cooktop) 3" filler, 9" pantry, Fridge, 15" pantry, ovens. Most cabinetry lines, unless true custom, offer cabinets in 3" increments only (so 15" pantry, not 16" pantry). You need the filler against the wall because they are often not plumb and then the doors can scrape the walls, even to the point of not opening, without a filler.

Make sure to put a prep sink on the island.. Otherwise, it's 16.5' from your fridge to your sink.

You can make the pantries 32" or 33" deep if your cabinetry line offers that option. I say 32 or 33 instead of 36 because you need to allow for the doors of the fridge to open; if 36", the doors won't swing open all the way because they will hit the pantries on each side. Check the specs on your fridge to see the max depth you can have on either side of the fridge. Make sure you have roll-out shelves in the pantries of course, otherwise things will get lost in the back.

I'm sad to be giving up a coffee corner, but I guess I can't have everything. As for the desk, it's in front of a low window, so the counter drops anyway.

Honestly, I don't think you would have ended up using that corner. It would be very hard to get into and there is no water there for the coffeemaker.


 o
RE: Layout Help - Want everything! Can I have it?

Again, you're amazing! What are your thoughts on splitting the pantry in 2 smaller ones vs. one larger? I like the idea of the symmetry of the pantries around the fridge but worry that they will be too narrow to be useful. I prefer the larger pantry in the corner, but the designer is concerned about the fridge being next to the ovens. We have it this way now with no problems and I have read that it's not a real issue.

What do you think and thanks a million!!!
Cindy


 o
RE: Layout Help - Want everything! Can I have it?

Here's the symmetrical pantry configuration.


 o
RE: Layout Help - Want everything! Can I have it?

With dimensions.


 o
RE: Layout Help - Want everything! Can I have it?

and the other one with dimensions


 o
RE: Layout Help - Want everything! Can I have it?

Thanks for all the tips, everyone. I really am going to use the desk. Promise! I have been in the house for 16 years and the office is on the lower level. I hate going down there and can't stand the laptop wires and mouse on the dining room table for one minute longer! I also really want to try and keep the island clear for prep and the kids' homework needs.
I have planned a really cute little area for myself - see attached.

Cindy


 o
RE: Layout Help - Want everything! Can I have it?

Aw, thank you and you're welcome!

It's not a real issue for the fridge to be next to the ovens. Both appliances have good insulation.

I would also prefer the pantry all together. I feel like narrow pantries, especially the one sandwiched between the wall and fridge, are hard to get into. I also feel like you would be forever pulling the roll-outs in and out looking for that ONE item. Also, it should be less expensive. BUT if you go with only one pantry the fridge will then be partially or fully directly across from the island, so you MUST make that aisle 48" between the range and island counter (each counter overhangs the cabinetry by ~1.5") . That's because a standard fridge juts out 11" or so from the range counter, so there will only be 37" between it and the island. If counter depth, unless you buy a true, $$$ counter depth like Liebherr or SubZero, it juts out 6" or so. Just make sure you account for that because ou need to be able to get the fridge out for repair and replacement, have room to walk behind it while someone is standing in front of it while open, etc.

I like your desk area but I would probably consider making the leg room more than 22" wide. That sounds awfully narrow and like a knee knocker to me. Can you mock it up at a table with some cardboard boxes or something, sit and work, and see if it's enough room?

This post was edited by tracie.erin on Tue, Jul 2, 13 at 16:37


 o
RE: Layout Help - Want everything! Can I have it?

Jumping in here on a pantry comment. I have a 12" pull out pantry that I absolutely LOVE, ADORE, would do again. If I had 24" I'd put two side by side, that's how much I love it.

Mine is accesible from both sides but yours on the left of the fridge would be accessible from just one side which is fine. Because they are so narrow, nothing, absolutely nothing gets lost in them and you have full access all the way to the "back of the cabinet" without having to pull everything out.

ETA: Because it pulls straight out, you don't need fillers on the sides to account for opening doors which equals more efficient use of space. Mine is as deep as the ovens so 30" IIRC.

This post was edited by loves2cook4six on Tue, Jul 2, 13 at 20:38


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Kitchens Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Please review our Rules of Play before posting.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here