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Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

Posted by magsnj (My Page) on
Sat, May 10, 14 at 23:18

I have a gift certificate that I have to use for Restoration Hardware so I continuously have to look there b/c I can find NOTHING. Then I think, maybe linens, but I can't bring myself to spend that much, even if it is a gift certificate. Full disclosure, I like things being made in the US... and I avoid products made in China as best as I can... but even if that weren't true, does this headline under their tabletop--> dinnerware link seem like they're ridiculous and reaching to anyone else?

Here is a link that might be useful: Link to dinnerware


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

LOL!


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

What is wrong with Made In China? No one will judge your choice of Made in USA, but it seems you see 'Made In China' as something negative and shameful.

Are you upset to see others feel proud and advertise product that is Made In China? This is awfully narrow minded.


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I agree with wamot. Given the fact that porcelain was indeed invented in China and only exported to the rest of the world many centuries later, it seems like there are much worse examples of marketing out there.


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Actually, I "get" the poster's reaction. There have far, far too many products from China since it adopted a Capitalistic Communism in the past decade that are not only shoddy, but dangerous. From drywall to dog food to pyrex, the lack of quality and inclusion of dangerous ingredients is a serious concern. Sorry if it sounds xenophobic, but Chinese products in the past decade are suspect. At least RH is disclosing the source.


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'There have far, far too many products from China since it adopted a Capitalistic Communism in the past decade that are not only shoddy, but dangerous. '

I try not to buy stuff made there too.


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"From drywall to dog food to pyrex, the lack of quality and inclusion of dangerous ingredients is a serious concern."

Dretutz hit the nail on the head with this statement. What about the baby formula from a few years ago? There is little government oversight of Chinese manufacturing and it has been proven that many of these manufacturers use undisclosed dangerous chemicals, that are banned in the USA and many other countries, to save a fraction of a penny. And forget about quality control. My husband HAS to buy certain components from China because they are no longer made in America. The quality of these electronic components are horrible, with tolerances 2-3 times what they used to be and an expected failure rate of 20%! Not to mention the huge amount of toxins being dumped into the environment by Chinese manufacturing, with little or no government oversight.

Yes, I do view "Made in China" as negative, with good reason I believe. I personally make every effort not to buy products made in China, even if I have to pay considerably more for the same product made in the USA or elsewhere.


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I try not to buy things manufactured in China. Safety regulations and quality control are lax. I work for a manufacturing company and the things we bring in from China are uneven in quality, to say the least. In my personal purchases, if there is a made in the USA option I will almost always pay more to buy it. To me, RH goods are cheaply made but sold at premium prices. I avoid RH because for those prices I can buy well-made goods elsewhere.


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Made in China is cheap because the average consumer in US is cheap, it is a simple trade off between qualify and price. If consumers here are willing to pay the premium as they pay for iPhone and iPad, I doubt you will complain about 'Quality Control'. iPhone and iPad are Made in China, and the good quality comes with a price.

Maybe you are fortunate enough not needing to count every penny and don't mind paying more for Made In US, but there are many others can not afford this lifestyle. The 'cheap' Made in China makes it possible for them to buy a new toy, a pair of new shoes and a new computer for their kids.

It is one thing to raise concerns regarding particular issues, it is a different thing to make a simple and naive judgement on 'Made in China'. If you are choosing the later one, you might well just be a Nazi in 1930s and a Racist in 1960s and I worry about it.


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I also try to avoid anything made in China for all the reasons already listed. It's completely ridiculous to compare me to a Nazi or a racist...beyond ridiculous.


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Wamot, this has nothing to do with the people in China. It has everything to do with manufacturing policies and quality control. The people there are just doing their jobs and earning a paycheck like everyone else. No one is saying that their policy against buying China-made goods has anything to do with the people there, so comments about Nazis and racists are out of place.

Personally, I've bought quite a few things that are made in China and will likely continue to do so because it is getting hard to avoid. I prefer to buy things made in the USA because I like to support jobs here, but it's getting harder and harder to do.


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"It is one thing to raise concerns regarding particular issues, it is a different thing to make a simple and naive judgement on 'Made in China'. If you are choosing the later one, you might well just be a Nazi in 1930s and a Racist in 1960s and I worry about it."

The issue is about merchandise and quality/QC, not people.

So how would you suggest people discuss these issues/concerns about products?


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Jinx, snookums!


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The US imported $440 billion worth of goods from China in 2013. There are many companies that require very high quality control in their production processes, who work with China to produce products that you buy and use.

It's one thing to say that it's possible to find products sourced from China that have compromised quality. It's another thing (and wrong) to imply that if something comes from China, then it necessarily has compromised quality control.

It's especially ironic with this ad, because the techniques and specialized expertise required to make porcelain originated in China. To now claim that advertising porcelain as authentically Chinese is ridiculous shows that we're more swayed by media reports than by understanding of history.


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"To now claim that advertising porcelain as authentically Chinese is ridiculous shows that we're more swayed by media reports than by understanding of history." I disagree. To ignore that the fundamental economics of China have shifted away from its historical roots is naive. I, for one, would want to know how that china was manufactured and what ingredients were used. Without quality control, there is no telling what might be in those dishes. And, yes I would prefer to do without a new toy or gadget rather than inadvertently introduce toxins to my household. We all make those choices and tradeoffs; to revert to ad hominum attacks is below the belt. We are merely sharing opinions and perhaps illuminating facts as we have come to learn them. My suspicion of "Made in China" does not mean I boycott all their products--but I proceed with caution. A Nazi? A racist? P-L-E-A-S-E don't defile the potency of those accusations by using in this instance.


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dretulz - it wasn't me that talked about Nazis or racism.

However, this thread is clearly about stereotypes. Specifically, it's about what happens when a marketer tries to present an aspect of Chinese history in a positive light, and that presentation doesn't correspond with our stereotype.

With most stereotypes, people can find facts to support that generalization. There are clearly lots of facts to show that some Chinese-produced goods are inferior. There are facts to show that some Chinese production processes are not always up to American standards. But there are lots of other facts that show that of the $440 billion of Chinese goods and services we imported to the US last year, much of that is high quality. However, those facts don't factor into the stereotype.

I have no idea whether RH porcelain is any good or not. But we've evolved with our stereotypes to now think that Chinese porcelain can be dangerous for one's health. I think that is alarmist.


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OP, I feel the same way you do about made in China products.

The comment about Nazis and racists was unacceptable.

My cat died of renal failure back in 2007 about a week before the pet food scandal broke. I don't positively know that the contamination is what caused her illness, but she did get eat may of the contaminated brands. After that, many Chinese babies lost their lives because of contaminated milk. Why would I risk the health and welfare of my human and pet loved ones to save a few bucks?

While it is true that different people have different amounts of money, I don't really understand why people have less money should be routinely buying made in China items either. We have basic needs of food, clothing, and shelter. Most anything unrelated to that is a luxury. Poorly made trinkets from the Dollar Store and WalMart are still mainly a waste of money and resources. I cringe when I walk into those places and see vast amounts of junk that is basically one use only. What ever happened to saving your money so you have it when you need it and build a better life that way. I'd rather pay triple the amount for a higher quality product than pay to buy the same item several times because it was so poorly made I only got to use it once. This throwaway attitude isn't working. It is creating further environmental and social problems.

A major percentage of the money spent to buy made in China goods is money permanently leaving our economy. Why not spend money on products from our country so the money can be used to provide jobs for our people and better our lives.


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While I understand some apprehension in purchasing goods made in China, I think these anti-China declarations sometimes ring of racism.

With that being said, if people do not want to buy goods made in China, then expect to pay real money for goods.

The OP's state is really a contradiction and also the root of the problem. She says she can't bring herself to spend so much money on linens (i.e. she wants cheap items), yet she does not want to buy goods made in China where cost of labor is lower. If you're so concerned about money leaving your country, then expect to pay a living wage to people IN YOUR COUNTRY.

It goes beyond basic goods - let's look at foods. In a grocery store, you see people's carts filled with so much junk - manufactured junk passing as food. Yet, when I tell someone I bake my own bread (which is not a big deal at all), they look at me like I have 3 heads.

Whether an item is made in China, India or US, I really don't care. I care more about the quality of the item than the country it was made. The Chinese are just like you and me and I feel empathy towards those workers who slave for pennies per day just so people can buy more junk to clutter their homes.


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It's called spin. They're trying to change the negative perception of Chinese goods (the ubiquitous connotation of MIC is that it is the equivalent of "made cheaply") by reminding us all that the Chinese invented porcelain, and trying to make that seem desirable.

It's very good marketing strategy, especially when almost everything RH sells is MIC. And almost everything all of us own is built with Chinese components.
______________

wamot, Germany used to have the largest export economy in the world, selling few high-priced goods. In the last few years China has replaced it as the worlds largest export economy by selling billions of low priced items. That's the objective truth, and there's nothing wrong with the statement that the Chinese sell inexpensive items. Why is that a bad thing? Why does pointing that out make people racist? It doesn't.

As for the Nazi comment, shame on you. To make this comparison means you know nothing of history, have no respect for the criminality of Nazi behavior, and have nothing to offer this discussion but jingoistic nonsense. Behave yourself and apologize. Immediately.


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"She says she can't bring herself to spend so much money on linens (i.e. she wants cheap items), yet she does not want to buy goods made in China where cost of labor is lower. If you're so concerned about money leaving your country, then expect to pay a living wage to people IN YOUR COUNTRY. If you're so concerned about money leaving your country, then expect to pay a living wage to people IN YOUR COUNTRY."

There is a difference between not wanting to spend "so much money" on linens and wanting cheap linens! I really like high quality things, but they are often priced way out of my budget. I don't want cheap stuff, I just want good stuff to be reasonably priced so that I can afford it. There are a lot of people living in the US that can't afford to buy top quality well-made items. They buy cheap things because that's all they can afford to buy. I tend to agree with some of the statements made about "throw away" goods. It seems like more and more things are falling into that category ... gotta keep us consumers on the treadmill.


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Whatever one thinks of the Chinese and their quality control or lack of it, the ad is plainly ridiculous. But then, they knew that. They knew it would get a few laughs - it's being ridiculous for the sake of marketing. Anyone knowing what "authentic" means would know that authentic Chinese porcelain could only be made in China. So they've tried to use a tautology for humorous effect.
I personally think just saying "Authentic Chinese Porcelain" would make a more interesting statement.
The thing about all this stuff is retailers love it because the mark up is tremendous. Look at what happened the Styer's nursery in SE PA: once one of the greatest horticultural nurseries in the country. When Urban Outfitters bought it, they shifted the focus from rare plants to precious geegaws and housewares from China. (Admittedly it had already started with the previous owners.) At most the markup on rare plants from a wholesaler would be 3X, usually less. I bet something selling there in housewares for $40 only costs them $4, at most. So they get at least a 10X markup.

This post was edited by davidrt28 on Sun, May 11, 14 at 16:46


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Interesting perspective, davidt28, but I can't say that I agree. Have you been to Restoration Hardware lately? A trip to the "new and improved" RH will likely make you doubt that those in management have any sense of humor at all. That place is so grey and depressing! Nothing at all like the "old" Restoration Hardware.


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When I was a kid in the 1940s and 1950s, "Made In Japan" was synonymous with junk or very poor quality.

That certainly has come full circle with "Made In Japan" at least suggesting the likelihood of high quality.

Can't be sure of quality, but some "Made in China" items are now the ONLY items of the specific item available.

I find absurd the suggestion that a person being adverse to buying Chinese made products is somehow "racist."

This post was edited by saltidawg on Sun, May 11, 14 at 17:18


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Wow, I've been reading this board for months and I have to say this is the first time I have seen Godwin's law.

I do wonder though, what everyone who says they try to buy "made in the USA stuff" drives. Are you driving American made cars? Supporting the American auto industry?


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

Hat tip to Texas_Gem for the reference to Godwin's Law.
I drive a 9 year old Mercedes with 130K miles (Made in Mexico) and a new Ford hybrid.


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My husband bought these. I had no part in it. Just looked it up.

Honda Pilot manufactured in Alabama.
Toyota Forerunner manufactured in Japan.
Toyota Sienna Manufactured in Indiana.


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Yes, Texas_Gem, we own 2 American made cars, and have owned American made cars for the past 20+ years, I put my money where my mouth is! My grown son owns 2 American made cars as well. I'm not saying that I will not buy a product if it is made in China, but given the choice, I will ALWAYS choose a made in the USA product, even if I have to pay 20+% more. If I cannot buy American made, I will choose products made in Italy, France, Portugal, etc. before I will buy Chinese made products. Not all Chinese made products are inherently bad or poor quality, but enough of them are for me to be suspect.

I also prefer to support the economy of my own country when I can. I just today chose a $10 made in the USA whisk over an $8 made in China whisk of the same shape and size. Yes, I realize that I am fortunate to be in a position to afford to pay a premium for American made products, but when we were not as well off as we are now, we did without until we could afford to buy quality products. I rarely purchased a toy for my children that was not made in the USA or Europe. My children wore clothes and shoes that were made in the USA or Europe. It is a choice we made for our family and our hard earned dollars. And I am neither a Nazi nor a racist, nor do I have any other leanings that anyone should be worried about.

This post was edited by fishymom on Sun, May 11, 14 at 18:57


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Although it is no longer possible to buy a completely American made vehicle, we do stick with the American manufacturers. My husband is a Dodge man...has owned a Dodge truck of one kind or another since the day I met him. My father is a GM retiree so I have always "supported his retirement" by buying GM products.

I can't say I have never purchased anything made in China but I do make a concerted effort to purchase made in USA whenever I can. It is one of the many reasons I chose Barker Cabinets for our ongoing kitchen reno.


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Wamot, I count pennies more than anyone I know. And I work very hard for my money. Also, I believe that, as sad as it is, where Americans spend their money matters more than their vote. So I like my money to support quality. I like my money to support my country. I don't like my money to support another country that has a history of human rights violations, corruption and a lack of value or regard for human life. I don't like pets being endangered. I don't like children being endangered. I'd like to know that my money doesn't support sweat shops (by the way, have you ever researched how the workers were treated the in the Apple factories you're touting for quality control? Prior to a large amount of media scrutiny due to 18 attempted suicides, not so well. I believe the response of the factory was to put up suicide proof netting around the roof. Clearly you mean the quality of the product and not the quality of life for the people who work there). One more thing I don't like, being compared to a Nazi for having a very reasonable stance on a known issue (although it seems like you need to read up on it and not be so emotional)

Personally, I'd rather by my kids 1 American made toy to 3 toys made in China. That's not deprivation.

Perhaps you should do some self reflection and you'll realize you're "awfully narrow minded".

And lastly, back to the original topic, I don't like Restoration Hardware trying to rebrand things made in China as being high quality. The company should be ashamed of itself. In the not so distant past, restoration hardware was known as a company that sold American made products. Recently, you can barely find anything there made in the US. Even the American flag they sold recently was made in China. I'm naturally opposed to this, but my irritation is compounded (since I am a penny pincher) since I haven't seen any of the savings of this change in business model being passed on to customers.


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Seriously, I think a number of people on this thread may need to do some self-reflection.

Nobody is saying that there's anything wrong with American patriotism or with buying American.

But the kind of anti-China sentiment being reflected by some of the posts here is all stereotype-driven, and fundamentally driven by ignorance. To have all these ideas about poor Chinese-made quality, to the point of hypothesizing that RH porcelain could be dangerous to one's health because its sourced from China, is ridiculous.

I am a very patriotic American. But where do American dollars go? How many of us go to Walmart because they control the global supply chain to maximize profits for themselves by giving Americans the cheapest goods possible? How many of us go to McDonalds and buy Frito-Lay products, which compromises the health of our children way more than buying Chinese-made pottery? How many of us buy chicken from American mass-produced farms that grow animals in horrible conditions then inject them with antibiotics to keep the yield rate up & artificially inflate size? How many of us buy iPhones or computers which are largely made with Chinese labor?

We live in a globalized world. People need to get used it. Or if they don't, they need to have more scrutiny on what they say before succumbing to the tempting, but largely ignorant stereotypes and generalizations out there.


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>>>"I don't like Restoration Hardware trying to rebrand things made in China as being high quality. The company should be ashamed of itself."

>>>"However, this thread is clearly about stereotypes. Specifically, it's about what happens when a marketer tries to present an aspect of Chinese history in a positive light, and that presentation doesn't correspond with our stereotype."

I agree that folks should be careful about what they buy, and it is great to support your local economy. But when I was growing up it did not seem that "Made in China" had such a negative connotation. (Does that make me old?) I suspect that someday things will change again.

Here is a link that might be useful: $36.5 million for a china cup


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Interesting thread, especially given how many times "cheap Chinese RTA cabinets" are mentioned on this forum.


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Um, never make assumptions about your American made cars. Dodge trucks? I believe many are made in Mexico. I know ours was.


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skaun, your argument is a baseless reach. Just b/c I can't bring myself to spend RH prices for linens doesn't mean I want to buy "cheap". Actually, in my kitchen reveal, you could see I actually paid a premium to get as much as I could from the US, even going so far as to drive to an artisan in PA to get my pendants. Most linens that I see are from Turkey or Italy, and I can find them for less than I'd pay at RH.

I bake my own bread as well.

I feel empathy for the Chinese workers who work for pennies as well. That's why I try not to support keeping them in that situation.

Calumin, this is not about patriotism. I can buy items from many other countries. I don't avoid items made in China b/c I'm racist. There's a quote by Benjamin Harrison that I've always thought was more profound than it sounds. "I pity the man that wants to buy a coat so cheap that the man or woman who produces the cloth will starve in the process". I've always tried to buy quality and I've always understood quality comes at a premium. That premium supports values that I believe in. As I've witnessed a degradation in quality through the years, it's worried me. Now, seeing RH wanting me to buy a "coat" at a premium when it's very likely the man or woman who produces the "cloth" will still starve in the process sickens me. If anything, it shows that I care for ALL human beings.


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"I pity the man that wants to buy a coat so cheap that the man or woman who produces the cloth will starve in the process."

You might want to take a more critical eye to companies like Walmart, Yum Brands, and Tyson Foods. Big American companies are very good at doing just what this quote says.

Before feeling too much empathy for Chinese workers, think about real GDP growth in China since the turn of the century, compared to that in America. A dollar to a US worker is not the same as a dollar to a Chinese worker -- labor arbitrage is the big reason why American retailers and Chinese manufacturers have both benefited due to globalization. China is building a modern 21st century middle class, and will likely overtake the USA in GDP in the next decade.

As an American, you may do better to fear them for their prowess as an economic competitor, rather than create an image of slave labor camps in China and assume that this image represents working life across the entire country. Again, the stereotype is not the full reality.


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My brother and I have a very small furniture company and yes we import from China...also from India, peru and Mexico. the best selling line is from China which consists mostly of dining room tables and chairs. Prior to going to china we sold only from India and Mexico. We didn't sell nearly the number of tables and chairs from those other countries combined than we have our line from China. The quality is consistent, the finishes are great and the problems are few and far between. This is also what is selling to the American public.

I would also like to say that our mark up is not even close to the 3X mentioned earlier. OUr mark up is as low as possible as to supply the customer with as low of a price as possible.

Our society is a difficult one to sell to; we want everything perfect, we want it cheap and we want it yesterday.

with regard to RH; I WILL NOT purchase from this store. Not only does it depress me to go in there but I have also witnesses the CEO with his "Clan" shopping the show as if he's some sort of king. Something I don't like about this business.


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The idea that chinese made goods are dangerous as a matter of fact is patently ridiculous.

China has the largest manufacturing base on earth. When dangerous goods are sent to the US, its mostly because a US company wanted something cheaper than was possible to make safely, and the chinese company followed the guidelines they were given.

There's some absolute junk being made in china, and some of the best quality goods in the world. It all depends on what the contract is asking for.


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There was a similar thread a while back. Maybe RH read that and decided to be more up front about its sourcing ;-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Prior RH thread

This post was edited by Oaktown on Sun, May 11, 14 at 23:46


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>Calumin: As a discerning shopper who thinks of social justice issues when I spend money, I never shop at Walmart, MacDonalds or Tyson chicken. In fact, there are no processed foods in my home or freezer and when I don't grow myself, I try to eat foods that are locally grown. So, do not tar us with such a broad brush. Yes, I am suspicious of "Made in China" and investigate before prurchasing. I also try to live close to the bone.


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[QUOTE]From drywall to dog food to pyrex, the lack of quality and inclusion of dangerous ingredients is a serious concern...There is little government oversight of Chinese manufacturing and it has been proven that many of these manufacturers use undisclosed dangerous chemicals, that are banned in the USA and many other countries, to save a fraction of a penny.[QUOTE]

The problem with this argument and logic is that the US allows lots of ingredients and processes that the EU and other countries have banned as being dangerous.

http://www.shape.com/blogs/shape-your-life/13-banned-foods-still-allowed-us

http://www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2013/05/7-dodgy-foodag-practices-banned-europe-just-fine-here

What would you think if the Europeans used the same broad brush that we use on Chinese goods and say that they would never buy anything made in America because some American items are considered unsafe?

For example, 160 countries have banned Ractopomine, but 60-80% of American pigs are fed that because its a growth stimulant.

Maybe, we should stop buying American goods altogether?

As America has shifted away more and more from manufacturing, it seems like we've replaced it with this misguided nostalgia about the quality for American products.

The truth is that there were lots of American goods made in this country that were just terrible in quality that would rival the worst that China produces today.

I remember my parents owned this American car that was made in America, and it was beyond terrible- it was always breaking down, and something had to be fixed even when it was still relatively new.


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"Yes, Texas_Gem, we own 2 American made cars, and have owned American made cars for the past 20+ years, I put my money where my mouth is! My grown son owns 2 American made cars as well."

fishymom:

You never define "American" cars. Is a Honda made by Ohioans an American car, or would that be a Ford built by Mexicans?


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"The truth is that there were lots of American goods made in this country that were just terrible in quality that would rival the worst that China produces today."

Exactly. And this is why the whole Buy American thing is ridiculous. If there are similar quality products at similar price points from america, and elsewhere, I buy american, but when there's not, all we're doing by buying these things is propping up poorly run companies.

If America can't compete on making doodad X, we shouldn't be trying to prop up the doodad X industry, we should be converting these factories to do something else.


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I will add that country of origin is not as important to me as quality of the product. I would prefer to buy quality products that are made in America, but I don't rule out products that aren't. I agree that "Made in America" is not always synonymous with "quality."


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My unfinished stock cabinets I just plugged into my existing layout were Made in America....and are pretty much crap. They were the right choice for me because they matched my existing cabinets after I painted everything, and I was working on a small budget prior to the possibility of a big overhaul later. But the reality is they were created with shoddy workmanship and materials...but are also not pretending to be what they are not.

Take that for whatever it is worth, just information. For the record I strongly believe in American products and assembly for Americans who need jobs, but if the standard is not there I do not vote for that with my wallet.


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I personally do check COO on all major purchases (household items, clothing, appliances etc..), many times I will call or email a company to ask....if it is made in China/Vietnam I do tend to avoid it and keep looking for something that is made in the USA if possible

99% of the time the quality is better, I don't think a rational person can dispute that....I personally can not think of anything that I have bought that is made in China is better then the USA version?

One quick example, I have worn Redwing boots for 25 years. They typically last 5-6 years, I have new soles put on them and wear those for around the house and buy a new pair for work...well the last pair I bought I was not paying attention and bought a pair that was made in China, didn't even notice until a month or so after...went back to the store and noticed there was two displays, one display was cheaper and the more expensive display had a large Made in USA on the box (how I didn't notice is beyond me!) Long story short, the Chinese version lasted exactly 8 months...cobbler would not even bother putting on a new sole the leather was so bad on them

I will stick with the Made in USA whenever possible, I much prefer to keep Americans working when possible....if that makes me racist, so be it


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ajc71 - going back to the original post, I think it is debatable to argue that in general American-made porcelain would be of higher quality than Chinese-made porcelain, or that Chinese porcelain is low quality.


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went back to the store and noticed there was two displays, one display was cheaper and the more expensive display had a large Made in USA on the box (how I didn't notice is beyond me!) Long story short, the Chinese version lasted exactly 8 months...cobbler would not even bother putting on a new sole the leather was so bad on them

Point made - one display was cheaper, and the product was more cheaply made. That isn't because it's made in China, it's because Red Wing decided they wanted to have a cheaper line, and to get that, they had to source the product outside the USA. The product was undoubtedly made to their exact specifications.


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"The product was undoubtedly made to their exact specifications."

So did US companies specify for Chinese factories to use melamine as a cheap filler in our pet food (that masks itself as part of the protein level in feed to pass the tests)?

Here is a link that might be useful: chinese feed fillers

This post was edited by snookums2 on Mon, May 12, 14 at 20:16


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

"When dangerous goods are sent to the US, its mostly because a US company wanted something cheaper than was possible to make safely, and the chinese company followed the guidelines they were given."

If that is the case, it is despicable that these companies are willing to compromise safety in order to fill contracts, ie, money money money is their foremost priority. They are not concerned enough about quality. A reputable company to be sourcing from would not be doing this. They would say I can't make this any cheaper than such and such.

Perhaps they aren't developed enough at this point to know better with some of these things. A good reason to be wary of their practices.


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

Oaktown, that was my post on RH. You can see that I was willing to pay more to get the hardware for my cabinets made in the USA.

The sooner I can find something suitable to buy there with my gift certificate, the sooner I can stop actively disliking RH and feeling the need to rant. :)


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

Why not just re-gift the certificate? Not sure how it's ok to buy something there when it's not your money and not ok if it were your money???


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

magsnj, is the gift card transferable?

Perhaps you could sell it at a small discount to someone who does want to shop at RH -- then you could take the money to get some Made in USA products?

I'm no etiquette expert, but that doesn't seem like the kind of thing a gift-giver would mind.

(Oops, posting at same time as Isabel)

This post was edited by Oaktown on Mon, May 12, 14 at 19:37


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

>The sooner I can find something suitable to buy there with my gift certificate, the sooner I can stop actively disliking RH and feeling the need to rant. :)

You do know that there are online sites where you can trade in unwanted gift cards for credits for other stores/amazon (although amazon is also a case in itself)?


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

isabel98, am I the only person left in the world that doesn't regift? Most of my sister in laws do it and I can't understand why. The gc is for a significant amount.... and clearly it's not ok for me to buy something when it's not my money, or else I would've bought something long ago. It doesn't help that the majority of the things they have are so dreary, but then add my other requirements on and here I am two years later, still trying to find something.

writersblock, the only ones I've seen, you lose a significant amount of value. If you know of any that I could trade for face value or near it, that'd be great!


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

There are sites where you can trade or sell gift certificates, aren't there? Maybe that would be the thing to do.

I've been in your shoes, had a gift certificate but was reluctant to use it on things that I could get for a better price elsewhere. Finally I just bit the bullet and paid a little bit more for some things I could really use. Reminded myself that it was, after all, a gift.


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

"here I am two years later, still trying to find something."

Be careful how long you wait or you could lose its full value should the company fold. Those specific cards are risky. They collect the cash for a pre-sale, while you could wind up with nothing in return.


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

I've been in and out of there for a few years now and haven't found anything I can actually use. I don't care for the quality of the bedding. I looked at some velvet draperies which were OK for ready made. But they came folded.

HOWEVER, when we redid our apartment I needed new towels. Mine were worn out. I waited for a sale and purchased theirs as well as bathmats. I have found them to be excellent. They are very heavy duty, launder beautifully and hold up exceptionally well. There is broad range of colors. I believe they are made in Turkey.

A year or so before I had purchased the cotton equivalent of cashmere towels directly from a wholesaler. The RH towels are holding up better and I would purchase them again. I also compared them to Waterworks towels and found them to be comparable at a better price.

They are not exactly a budget item and might be just the thing to use the credit for -- that is if you should need towels.


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

> If you know of any that I could trade for face value or near it, that'd be great!

Well, not really. I'd say that if you're willing to take amazon instead, giftcardgranny.com probably has the best deals, but unfortunately how good the deal is depends on how much demand there is for what you're trading in. I'm afraid RH doesn't fetch nearly as much of a premium as, say, Starbucks.


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

[QUOTE]When dangerous goods are sent to the US, its mostly because a US company wanted something cheaper than was possible to make safely, and the chinese company followed the guidelines they were given.

There's some absolute junk being made in china, and some of the best quality goods in the world. It all depends on what the contract is asking for. [/QUOTE]

That reminds me of the Mattel toy recall where they recalled millions and millions of toys made in China. When that story broke, it got played up as another story about how products made in China were dangerous.

But, the reality was that the vast majority of those recalled toys were dangerous because of design flaws and the specs that Mattel had ordered. It didn't matter if those toys had been made in China or in the US- most of those toys were still going to be dangerous to kids.

However, it seems some posters feel that all the blame should be placed on the Chinese manufacturer for following Mattel's specs instead of Mattel for sending over a dangerous design.


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

rococo, I can vouch for RH towels. About 9 years ago I got a nice RH gift certificate. I bought white towels. I have never had such thick, substantial towels. Unfortunately, they aren't as white anymore, but they have otherwise held up admirably. Another color might be perfect, but I'm a sucker for white towels.


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

sorry, I'm not saying re gifting is generally a great idea to do....I don't do it. but I made the suggestion because clearly you do NOT like the company or the product. I don't either.

I know if it were me I would feel much satisfaction giving this to someone who would get enjoyment from it and I would be able to move on..

good luck:)


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

Those towels are on sale now.


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

What is wrong with Made In China?

Because Americans want clean air and labor laws but don't want to pay for anything made under those conditions?


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

"Americans want ... but don't want to pay for anything "

We hear this a lot here. I don't know what part the country or world you live in, but we pay a bloody fortune for things around here. The cost of living has become astronomical.

I think it's more what one of my foreign born friends says -- everyone here is trying to be a millionaire.


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

Things may be expensive everywhere, but unfortunately they'd be a lot more expensive if they weren't manufactured using cheap foreign labor so that American CEOs can take home huge salaries.

Despite what some of you would like to think, some of the previous posters were spot on - the Chinese are capable of making very high quality goods as well as cheap goods to satisfy the price points of some American companies. And while I'm sure that the American companies didn't specifically require the Chinese to use lead paint on toys or dangerous chemicals in pet food, the price points they gave the Chinese manufacturers and the lack of quality control by the American companies definitely led to that.

It's easy to say "Buy American" but how many of you would pay double for an item to do that? And just because it's made in America doesn't guarantee reliability or safety. Do you really think crack-addicted rednecks in American factories are more skilled than Chinese workers?

As far as the OP goes, you got a gift card to an expensive store - use it or give it away but stop complaining about the store's advertising. Unless you're sure that the China dishes they're selling are not high quality, you haven't got a leg to stand on. I was once given a gift card to an expensive kitchen store and used it to purchase a very expensive roasting pan that I probably wouldn't have bought out of my own pocket - it's one of the best purchases I ever made and I use it all the time.

This post was edited by weissman on Wed, May 14, 14 at 15:22


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

It's easy to say "Buy American" but how many of you would pay double for an item to do that?

It's the same thing as the Walmart superstore issue - everyone's against it until it opens in their neighborhood/area and then they shop there and drive the smaller grocer/local merchant out of business. Why? Price point, plain and simple.


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

"Do you really think crack-addicted rednecks in American factories are more skilled than Chinese workers?"

Are you kidding me! First we are Nazis and racists, now American factory workers are crack-addicted rednecks! If that is the most intelligent arguments you can put forward, then you can't really expect intelligent people to take you serious.

I have already stated that I routinely pay 20+% more for NOT made in China goods. I have never had to pay 50% more to purchase similar or better quality American or other non China made goods.

As far as Walmart, I routinely drive right past one and continue either 5 or 10 miles to smaller, privately owned markets to do my shopping. Walmart grew exponentially touting Made in America, now 90% of what they carry is made in China. And my issues with Walmart are not limited to their inventory!


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

Duplicate

This post was edited by snookums2 on Wed, May 14, 14 at 17:07


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

"And while I'm sure that the American companies didn't specifically require the Chinese to use lead paint on toys or dangerous chemicals in pet food, the price points they gave the Chinese manufacturers and the lack of quality control by the American companies definitely led to that."

Funny how the Chinese screw up royally and you still blame the Americans.

That their factories would even consider, and be allowed to, use pet and baby food food fillers like that, disguising itself as protein to trick the DRV level, is enough warning about the state of their development/knowledge/regulation for buyers to beware.

I am wary of anything I buy from anywhere but at least we have a lot of regulations and organizations in place in the States to try to protect people.

Speaking of which, no doubt we have irresponsible, shady companies using these foreign companies not just for the cheap foreign labor they can provide but to bypass all those regulations and controls they have to deal with here. There is a learning curve there, too, on just what can happen when they are not in full control and knowledge of operations; and what controls they must develop and implement to ensure product safety, like when people get creative with fillers. You'll find that in business operations too. A manager can only be as good as the people that were hired.

This post was edited by snookums2 on Wed, May 14, 14 at 17:17


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

Weissman, I actually have two legs to stand on. Thank you for your concern. And I can complain about any company I'd like to. That's another great thing about America, that I have freedom of speech and can use it when I disagree with a companies relatively recent change in business model if that's what I want to use it for.

Quite frankly, it's something as simple as the lack of true freedom of speech in China alone that would make me unlikely to want to buy products made there, whether they're high quality or not.


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

magsnj -- I think we're coming to the core issue, which is that you don't like China! Regardless of quality.

Thank you for clarifying. I'm glad we've moved away from the initial idea of "don't we all know how crappy China products are, what is RH thinking!!!" to some more honest views about how we view other countries.


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

Calumin, you are as biased in your views/perceptions of other people/countries as you accuse others of. Not sure how you pass your own sniff test. But at least your heart is in the right place.


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

The core issue is actually that I don't like Restoration Hardware...... anymore. There was a time I liked them very much and it gets under my skin. There are products made in China in millions of other stores, yet I keep returning to rant about my disappointment in RH.

Saying I don't like China is a pretty broad statement, and makes me wonder what is implied by it. I don't like that it's communist, I don't like that it's lead by a dictatorship, and I don't like that the people don't have "unalienable rights" that all people deserve. But I guess I like China enough to dislike all of those things for it.


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

I like Panda Express.


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

Magsnj - well said.


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

This political debate on the kitchen board is a little ridiculous. But anyway, I assume many of you are reading this on your iPhone or iPad. Which are, of course, made in China.

NPR has a great podcast on economics called Planet Money that I recommend. They've done several podcasts on globalization in manufacturing, and about US companies manufacturing in China. They're very informative, and I discovered that the whole issue is far more complex than the broad generalizations usually put forth about this topic.


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

snookums2 -- I didn't mean my last post to be an accusation. But the OP said three totally different disparaging things in three different posts about China (the first one implying that China quality is poor, the second one implying that the Chinese starve their workers, the third one saying they suppress free speech), then in the last post gave three more things he or she didn't like about China.

The OP or anyone else is obviously free to not buy Chinese-sourced products for any or all of those reasons, and I agree with some of the opinions stated. But the original question, which ended up morphing, was about whether it was ridiculous for RH to claim that Chinese porcelain could be high quality. My answer to that question was "no."


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

The OP stated facts. China has a reputation of poor quality.....whether you believe it's warranted or not is irrelevant. The reputation is there. The OP wouldn't use the word stereotype b/c it's inflammatory. The Op doesn't recall saying anything about starvation, yet another inflammatory accusation, but you've inferred inflammatory things all along so why stop now. China has well documented cases of suppressing speech..... or rather imprisoning those that employ it (which the OP sees as the same thing). The OP prefers to base their statements on facts, rather than emotions.

The OP is over this debate. The OP maintains her position of disdain for RH and has high hopes that China can become a democracy that extends unalienable rights to it's citizens and once again regains it's stronghold in porcelain so that the OP doesn't have to scoff at ridiculous advertising. The OP may make another post in a couple of months when she gains the strength to dust off the RH website and look for something suitable and can't find anything. Stay tuned.


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

I haven't liked the Nazi or Racist comments & I don't like the "crack addicted redneck" comment.
I do like RH towels.

This post was edited by romy718 on Thu, May 15, 14 at 2:56


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

It's easy to say "Buy American" but how many of you would pay double for an item to do that?

I do. All the time.

A jeweler once admonished me to use local talent - otherwise someday when I needed something it wouldn't be there. I have taken this to heart.

We're all responsible for how other people are treated. We're all responsible for the things we buy. Shamefully most of the electronics we use Coltan - which is (generally) obtained in deeply unethical ways requiring a price in life and blood that if most people knew about would look in askance at our throwaway culture of electronics. But for most other stuff you can generally find a way to not buy the thing that requires an other person live in misery.

My avoidance of things made in China isn't born of racism. The Chinese are as capable of putting out an amazing work of art/carpet/tile/sink (or in this case plate) as anyone else in the world. I don't (currently) trust their business practices and I don't like the way their workers are treated.

When you buy something from the US or Italy or France or Germany or someplace with actual labor laws you are (in part) paying for the fact that the man/woman who made it lives a pretty good life and has access to clean water. The factory where it was made does not throw out lead into the environment.

I also don't buy carpets made in Pakistan or India because I don't think it is possible to buy carpets made there without taking part child slavery.

If you can't afford the things you want in life without asking for someone else to suffer for them, maybe you should reevaluate what it is you want and what you actually need.

Do you really think crack-addicted rednecks in American factories are more skilled than Chinese workers?

If they're addicted to anything it's Oxy and Meth. Get your drug addictions straight.

And you tell me: it's 2 AM, you're in some bigbox store because it's put all the other stores in the area out of business (and no sane proprietor would stay open to 2AM) and you need to buy a Thermos. They are both the same size, both will do the job, both are the same price. One is made in China - the other in the US.

Which to you buy? If you use the fact that one was made in China and the other in the US - why? If you're saying that the "rednecks" do a worse job then I suppose you buy the one from China. Otherwise you already have your answer.


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

Sounds like the OP doesn't want any nice towels either. Being so outraged at a store's marketing policy is definitely a first-world problem.

All the Chinese tourists I see with suitcases stocking up on our Chinese-made designer brands at Woodbury Commons don't seem as emotionally challenged about that. They just buy and roll.


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

Here's a little story. My granite installation was scheduled for today - found this out over the weekend - and I needed support brackets like Centerline. If I had been given more notice, I would have purchased from them, but that will cut it close for shipping.

So, I hit up several stores, spoke to many installers and could not find anything besides that cheap decorative crap you see for wood shelves. Home Depot, Ace, Menards, nothing!

Finally went to Lowes and got something that may work - Stanley Support Bracket. I got home and looked at it only to see a Made in China stamp on the other side of the manufacturer name.

Good thing I have not issues using Chinese goods.


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Hilarious! really!

Interestung marketing strategy. It might work with the young up and comers. Who knows? I'll just get my cheap white stoneware from Target, thanks!


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

anyone know where Americans can buy towels made in America??? i know i can't.....

Pakistan, India, Turkey....

Are we really saying we can't make our own towels....so unbelievable....

years ago all my towels were Canon or Fieldcrest and all of them were made in the good ol USA.... i don't think those companies are even in business any more...sad :(

if anyone is looking for USA flatware, Libertytabletop.com is, I think, the only place to buy American -made flatware..

just a quick comment on this topic, we did it to ourselves to save $$$$$$$$$$. all our factories closed to make products overseas, why, because it CHEAPER....!!!!!
....from steel (Pittsburgh), to furniture, linens, kitchen gadgets, home decor, Christmas lights, hardware and on and on and on...

another reason why the unemployment rate is so high, no more factories...
we really can blame only our own companies and government, free trade and all, NAFTA... fat cats getting their dividend checks....

its ALWAYS about the almighty dollar!!!!!!

p.s., we always try to buy America-made to keep Americans working - a working country is a strong country!!!

just ordered the world's best brass nozzle, for garden hose
www.worldsbestbrassnozzle.com - ordered on amazon....
hubbardton forge fixtures and many other things.....


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

I'll just get my cheap white stoneware from Target, thanks!

Which is, according to the Target website "made in America or imported" :-)


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

wow, I got a little lost in this.

someone suggested re-gifting it. If it is a dollar amount that is a whole number like $50 (ie, it was given to you and not a store credit with $xy.59 or whatever) then I say give it to someone else. Or Donate it to a silent auction for a good cause, this way you help out a group trying to raise money and the person who purchases it wants it.

Good luck.

PS--I had a purse that everyone complimented me on. I always chuckled because I responded "Thank you, it's from China"...because it was. Purchased on a trip to Shanghai.


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RE: Is Restoration Hardware kidding me?

Here's a source for American made towels. I do not have any connection with them, but have the site marked in my made in America products list.

Here is a link that might be useful: towels made in the USA


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