Oh, no! I really hope it's a simple fix. I don't know anything about floor installation as we are keeping our current hardwood floors. I wish I had some words of wisdom for you. I feel terrible that you are going through this. I hope that someone with more knowledge has something more to offer to you.

If you put the sample down next to the actual floor is the color is way off?
If so, if the sample is that different than the reality and you clearly didn't get what was represented then I think it is the store's problem! Have you talked to the sales person and showed him the difference? Don't go any further until you have that conversation! Good luck.

Our Tiger Wood treads just arrived for our stairs. They are much, much lighter than our existing floors. The owner of the shop that made them for us explained that they would darken considerably over the next few months. Maybe the same will happen with your wood?

Even though the boxes say the flooring is the color you ordered, it could be the wrong flooring was put in the boxes or maybe the sample was mis-marked. Things like that have been known to happen. Regardless, I think you should ask someone from the flooring store to look at the floors in comparison to the sample you had. It doesn't cost you anything to inquire about it.
I hope you can get the situation resolved.

Thanks guys, I do appreciate the words of sympathy.

Local, there is nothing in the room that I can think would possibly be causing the red tint, as the room is fairly neutral. IJDK. I will take a sample outside tomorrow to see how it reads in natural sunlight. I carried the sample with me for weeks, inside and outside in all different lights. The sample didn't read red at all. If the dark brown in the sample was caused by age I could live with this because it means the wood would eventually weather to the cocoa bean color.

Leela, you are a sweetie to try to make me feel better. It's hard to find words when there is such a glaring mistake.

Annkh, The wood is sapele. I honestly had never heard of it and didn't really care about the species as it had just the look I liked. I think I will need to read up on it.

RK, I don't think there is a fix except to live with it and hate it or go to the expense to rip it out, purchase new and hope to be able to sell the uninstalled, unopened boxes.

DH said to call the flooring store in the morning and see if this could possibly be an instance where the flooring was mislabeled.and is actually the henna or cinnamon in a chestnut labeled box. He said "it is what it is, but it depends on how much you want to spend on the floor" so I guess he would be okay with ripping it out. I just don't think I am okay with wasting such a large (to me) amount of money.

Island, I no longer have the original sample as it was the store's sample so I can't compare it tonight. I will be calling the flooring shop first thing in the morning to make sure that there isn't a mistake in labeling.

Meyers if it looses the red tint I will be pleased but it honestly doesn't look too promising.

Badgergal, something is definitely wrong. This floor looks almost mahogany in color and DH now says that he was wondering when they were laying it why I chose something that was so red when he knew I was looking for a brown tone. He can't remember at all what the sample looked like.

holly-kay, I'm sorry this has happened. I know I'd be beside myself. Was your husband there the entire time the floor was being installed? Or was he there when the box was opened and asked for an opinion, like "just checking, this is the wood you ordered?" I assume the wood was at your house for a while, since it should acclimate to the house's humidity. Did you open any of the boxes? If you decide you can't live with the floor, not even willing to try, it sounds like there is a possibility that you got the wrong color in a mislabeled box through no fault of your own. If that's the case, I don't see how you should have to pay for a clear mistake that isn't your fault. It would be a good idea to find out if your husband might have given the thumb's up and not realized the color was off.

Holly-kay, everything I have read says sapele is a reddish-brown to purplish-brown wood that will darken/become richer over time.

That said, you should definitely check with the store about the sample versus what you have. I hope it all turns out well.

H-K, just found this GW thread and it sounds like sapele does indeed darken over time.

Here is a link that might be useful: sapele darkens

things that you are able to tweak can make a subtle difference-perhaps enough so you can feel differently. change in light quality-[bulbs]-filtering light at windows differently/paint over wall surfaces and countertop selection change[counter is usually done last-a change there might be significant to the overall.] Can the manager of the hardwood retail source check on this -the earlier in the process the better[before it's all laid]-I would give a call. Some stores are so very customer oriented they might offer to do something-some stores not so much.

We have a new sapele floor in our kitchen that we chose specifically for the red tinge because it has to cuddle up to red cedar. It does exactly what we expected and we love it. I'd suggest you check out the sample against the install. That being said, it does darken over time.

I hope you get some answers tomorrow. Wishing you lots of luck! Keep us posted :)

Is the wood stained "chestnut" or just coated with a clear finish? I wonder if it is stained, if the reddish highlights will ever fade?

I am afraid that I always associated the term "chestnut" with reddish brown, or red highlights like a chestnut colored horse.

I truly do hope that you can find a solution. We all put so much effort into choosing just the right colors and finishes. I know that I would be in tears.

I had the exact same thing happen to me when we built this house 12 years ago. The sample I picked was a medium brown tone, when I came by the house the day the floor was being installed it was very RED - and I was very upset. I yelled at the crew to stop the installation that very minute (about 1/3 of the floor had been done). I drove over to the builder's hut and found the sample - brought it back to the house and threw it down on the newly installed floor - the sample did not resemble that RED floor one bit. I can't remember what it was called, but the sample was brown - not one iota of RED in it.
I stood my ground - I called over the construction foreman and told him that I would absolutely NOT accept this - I know "dye lots" can differ - but this was ridiculous. They called the hardwood company to come out the next day to take a look - after deliberation they had to agree that the 3 year old sample looked nothing like the floor they had installed. It was ripped out, and my DH and I went to a different hardwood supplier and picked out a different floor (more expensive too) and the builder had to pay for it. They could not risk a delay because the house was set to close in a few days.

Holly-kay, try to get that sample you looked at and stand your ground. You should not have to accept this.

Thank you so much to all of you. This is definitely a mistake. I know that monitors don't read colors accurately but DH, who has no sense of color asked me what it was supposed to look like so he could compare I googled mannington Atlantis chestnut sapele. The chestnut in the sites that I went to shows the chestnut brown color that it is supposed to be fairly accurately. DH commented that even he could see the difference from the brown to the mahogany red that my floor is.

I am a past customer of the flooring store and have a great working relationship with the owner. He was actually the person who sold me the floor and when I told him the flooring that we picked last year had too much red for the cabinets I was doing and pulled the sample of the chestnut and told him I thought the beautiful chocolates brown of the chestnut pulled the chocolate glaze on the cabinet. He had that ahhhhh moment look on his face and said it was perfect. Two other customers also commented on how lovely it looked. We took it to the huge window that is a bright exposure put the flooring down and sat the sample cab door upright next to it. It was a perfect contrast.

The flooring was delivered today in unopened cartons. I left for work before they started so I wasn't there to approve the flooring. I could just kick myself because had I been there I wouldn't have allowed them to lay it until Chip came out with the sample.

I don't think I will sleep a wink tonight. I am hoping that when the sample arrives and he sees how off it is he will agree to take it back and have mannington make it right with him. I just now have to wonder how a sample could be so different from the reality?

Hard to sleep I know. I'd be the same way. Too bad you don't have the sample, but first moment your able I'd recommend taking a piece of your floor to the store and compare it to the sample you saw and have a conversation with the owner and do not install anymore until you do. Even if it's sapele but nowhere close to the sample color I don't think you should have to accept or pay for it even if installed.

A few years ago we had all the doors and casings replaced in our home and purchased new coordinating baseboards to install later. Husband's work schedule is more flexible than mine so he was there for install. Got home and they did a beautiful job installing it. After looking at it for awhile I thought something looked a bit off. Got my sample out and turned out they delivered and installed the wrong casing...in our entire home! It was close but not exactly what I ordered. No suprise that my husband didn't spot the difference and it even took me awhile.

Husband's thought was it's OK it's fine, we can keep this. Which of course just pi$$ed me off even more. Why should we have to settle for less than what we paid for and accept someone else's mistake? I'll never understand that mentality. No sleep for me that night of course.

First think in the morning I was on the phone. Store mistake and they made good. Sent out the correct casings and the subs to remove what they just put in and install the correct ones. To make matters worse this install was not as good and they cut ALL the casings too short!! Managers for the store and the sub contractor installers came out. Both agreed it was crap and they ended up ordering new casings and redoing the install perfectly. None of this happened overnight or as smothly as this would imply. I had to keep on them but I persisted. Cost of casings x 3, removing and disposing casings x 2, and installing new ones x 3. That was a very expensive mistake on their part.

Moral of my long winded story. Check into it don't accept it if it's wrong and be prepared to stand your ground and advocate for yourself. Hopefully they didn't show you a sample that's been there for years. That also wouldn't be acceptable.
Good luck please keep us posted.

Samples are not reality. Wood, ceramic tile, fabric, paint samples, they're all off. All that color and undertone analysis for naught. Those wood sample boards can show both the grain variation and the coloring differently than what the floor will look like, depending on the trees and who made the board look pretty. Same with ceramic tile and different firings. With tile, stone or ceramic, ask for a few pieces, order a box or go to the distributor if you can to see the lot. I went to the distributor who was local and wow, did I ever not want that ceramic tile anymore! Completely, and I mean totally, different coloring than the sample board at the store and another variation on the sample installation at the distributor. I saw that many times. No returns.

Island Ty so much for understanding. I am so upset over this. I have lived with a kitchen that I didn't care for for sixteen years and it is just unacceptable to have such a mismatch from sample to reality for my new flooring. Even if the floor darkens it is just going to become a darker red not brown.

I know that the owner has no idea that the color is off as none of the boxes were opened until delivery/installation. He knows that we were going after a brown not red floor. This isn't brown. It actually doesn't even have a hint of brown to it.

We aren't going to allow the install to continue. I will ask the owner to come out to the house with the sample that I chose from. I just can't live with this as my cabinets are a wheat stain with chocolate glaze that looks wretched next to red.

Good for you. Live and learn. Check, check and recheck everything.
A friend of mine is having floor installed and 20% of the planks have black lines. They began the install and luckily when she got home she told them to stop. They put ones with the black marks right in the entry to her kitchen! She is now going to order more boxes to pick through (Which of course she should have done in the first place, but she is new at this renovating game!).
One would think the installers would realize this and start with the better looking pieces.
Unfortunately these expensive lessons happen. Hopefully the store will do the right thing and exchange them.

I hope that it's a store or manufacturing error and they remove the floor and replace it. But if that doesn't work out, can it be sanded and stained? Is it all wood or engineered? If it's all wood and you can't have it replaced then I'd have it installed and then refinished - maybe the people you bought the floor from will agree to give you a really good deal on that to make you happy/satisfied. I totally understand where you are coming from - I'm sure it's a beautiful floor but it's not what you want for your space. I was also adamant about my floor not having any red undertones. My project doesn't start until next week but I will be sure to have my sample available- my sample is a piece from a box of the actual flooring, not a display sample. I really hope you can get this resolved quickly!!

"One would think the installers would realize this and start with the better looking pieces. "

They are supposed to but are often untrained, even illiterate, and want to go so fast getting the floors down to maximize their income that it's too much trouble for them to do things like install well and properly. It just doesn't seem to be in their blood. Just a job. Good, responsible craftsmen are hard to find. Unfortunately, you really have to learn as much as you can to try to head some of these things off.

Sorry.

This post was edited by ijensen on Wed, May 29, 13 at 15:52

How can they deliver and install the floor the same day? How big is the sample board? Exotic woods often have a ton of variation.

"If you put the sample down next to the actual floor is the color is way off?
If so, if the sample is that different than the reality and you clearly didn't get what was represented then I think it is the store's problem!"

Being a natural material there is always some variation between any sample and another lot of the same flooring.

If you want a perfect match to a sample you need to have a sample made up from the lot you plan to use.

This will allow alterations in the 'stain' used to obtain the desired color.

As soon as you use wood from more than one tree in a job you will have some variation, and sometimes even within the same tree.

Tight matching of 'grain', figure, ad color is an expensive task.

Since the light in your room is very unlikely to be the same as the light in the store, even a perfect match to the sample in the store's lighting is unlikely to match in your houses lighting.

This post was edited by brickeyee on Wed, May 29, 13 at 11:53

Sapele! As soon as you said that, I thought red. Sapele is very similar to mahogany, which tends to the reddish. I don't understand why the flooring store guy didn't know that, knowing that red was a color you didn't want. Or maybe his samples just haven't been from the reddish end of sapele. This is a toybox I made a couple of years ago. The sides are for sure sapele mdf. The top and door/drawer fronts are solid mahogany. In the light in this photo, none of it looks red, but I'm sitting right here looking at it and there is a decided red tone - both the chest and the floor are darker as I'm looking at them than in the photo.

Here's one I just took:

Thanks to all who chimed in. I am so hoping I did the right thing.

First thing this morning I called the owner and explained the problem. He was wonderful and said he would be over in half an hour with the sample. He brought not only the chestnut sapele sample but also the henna. The sample indeed had a slight reddish tinge but seemed more brown than red. When we put the sample on the neutral backdrop it was slightly red and when it was put right onto the flooring there was no denying that it was the correct wood.

Not once in the whole dialog did the owner get defensive. He was wonderful and very patient. He had even called the Mannington rep to see if there was a manufacturing glitch before he even left his shop. We then took the sample and some pieces from the open box to a more shaded location. The floor appeared more brown. When we put everything together in the kitchen area it looked good. He also told me that the sapele will darken considerably as that is the nature of an exotic floor.The owner told me that he would do what it takes to make me happy. He felt that when everything all comes together I am going to love it. We talked about refinishing the floor if I don't like it and he said it can be done but he would not recommend it. He would rather see the floor come up than to see it refinished. He also said that he DOES NOT want me to settle if I think I won't love it he will take it out and reorder something different because he wants a satisfied customer.

When all the components were in the kitchen together it actually looked quite nice, and since the sample was just slightly different from the reality I decided to keep what is there knowing that I do have the option to refinish. With that being said I am going to choose paint that will help to neuralize the red in the flooring.

Eve the sample board was approximately 2 ' x 2'. The sample when it was put on the flooring looks almost the same with the sample being a tad darker/browner.

I am still feeling a bit unsure that I decided correctly but the sample was so close. I just don't understand how I didn't see any red in the sample at all when it clearly looked red today. Chip and I agrred that at the shop the sample didn't appear to have a reddish tint.

What was so impressing to me was the owner of the flooring shop. He was fabulous. He was not defensive at all and made it clear that our satisfaction was the end goal. DH and I would have paid for the installation and boxes of product used if we decided to start from scratch and we made that clear but the owner wasn't worried about the economics over our satisfaction. That is the type of attitude that makes me and others happy as customers.

I also have to say the installers are doing a really wonderful job. They had the daunting task of moving all our furnishings. They brought felt pads with them this morning that they will put on the furniture legs before moving things back into the rooms as they are completed. I didn't know that was something they did.

Hi,

When you say that in the shade it looked less red, do you mean the shadow of the sun or of your house lighting? Shadowed areas have a considerably cooler light colour temperature that direct light - and that would affect your perception of the woods colour.

Maybe you could look at choosing a slightly cooler temperature for your lighting, so as not to accentuate the warm tones in the wood. I don't mean cool white (almost blue) lighting, but a subtle shift in that direction would help.

techy stuff :

http://lowel.com/edu/color_temperature_and_rendering_demystified.html

Best of luck, hope it all turns out nicely!

Fumet, thank you for that suggestion. It actually looks reddish both with lighting and natural light and less so out of the light. IDK what is causing the perception of red when
the sample seemed fine in all lighting.

I know what you mean about lighting. The walls at my shop are painted grey and they look awful with warm light but look very nice with a white light.

Holly-Kaye - I am so sorry you about your floor - It is so hard to figure these things out.
I remember ordering upholstery for work based on feedback from staff - when it came in, they paged me and said it wasn't right. I brought over the sample and put it on the table - a perfect match - so they had to live with lavender for years....
Hope it darkens to a better color.
Hang in there - you will still have an awesome kitchen and house reno!

Is the sample the store owner brought to your house the exact one you saw before?

Did you take the old sample home? if you did, did you notice the red tint under the lighting of your home?

Azmom, I can't say for sure that it was the same one but I know that they only had one display sample. The pics on line show the chestnut as much more brown than IRL. I did have the store sample for weeks and saw it in all lights and it didn't read red to me.

A2, Ty so much. It is indeed difficult to get everything right when you are basing big dollar decisions on fairly small samples. All I can say is I did my best. The good news is I am liking the floor much better today. It still reads red but it looks so much better today. Yesterday I thought there was no way I could live with this floor. Today I am thinking I can live with it and love it! There is only a small section left to do in the kitchen and then the bedroom hallway.

Friday cabinets are delivered. Monday and Tuesday cab install. Thursday the granite fabricator does his template. The lighting needs to be installed and from there the kitchen will be done except for painting and bs. Then on to the new furniture for the family room.

HK, I'm so glad you're liking the floor better today! And maybe it's even possible you could love it? Sounds pretty good. Personally, I love red by itself and in woods, e.g., mahogany, esp. in furniture. I think a floor with a hint of fire in it is a thing of beauty. And everyone seems to think sapele will most definitely darken over time.

It's always a little unnerving to see a partially completed floor and wonder if you've made a terrible mistake. I think once all the wood is it and it's complete, you will love it. Can't wait to see pictures. Hang in there.

I'm so glad it seemed to work out for you! I can't wait to see your final pictures. Things seem to be moving along quickly for your project. Here's to smooth sailing for the rest of the remodel :)

Trust it will go well for you. The dealer sounds like he knows his business and will get you through this happy -- which is most important.

As with paint, fabric and even furniture a color sample can look very different than a larger expanse of the same color. I have mottled porcelain tile flooring in the laundry room and the single huge tiles were mostly gray with some bits of terracotta. When it went down, the terracotta was far more prominent. It seemed to come from nowhere. But it was just the repetition. Paint color solved the issue. It's the same with paint. A a 24 x 24" square of paint on a wall can look very different than the entire wall in the same color. Our eyes mix and blend colors without us even realizing. With wood, there are undertones and variation in grain color.

But most important is that you love the floor and are happy. If they are doing a great installation that is more than half the battle down the line.

Sending much luck your way h-k

I love my sapele floor; it definitely has red in it and definitely darkens (gets richer) over time. There are darker, almost black streaks in it and maybe you could accent those with other black accents in the home? I find that because the sapele is so variable, it looks great with all other wood - it is very similar to cherry cabinets in my office but doesn't fight with them. It looks awesome with my espresso kitchen table and bench, it looks equally good with a very light maple armoire in a bedroom. Nothing can make my oak kitchen cabinets look good..but the sapele doesn't make them worse. ;) I'll be putting in white cabinets (maybe an espresso island) and I know it will be great.
I hope you fall in love with it, too. I am so happy to hear the floor store owner will work with you for a happy ending.

Thank you all! I can't believe the difference in the look of the floor from yesterday until today with more of it finished Every time I walk inside I think ooooh that really looks pretty. Even DH is liking it.

Kks it really does look good with the other wood tones in my room. I am hoping that the furniture I chose will look good in the room and with the floor. I am feeling a bit gun shy since the floor looked so different. The good thing about choosing furniture is you can see it in person and can sit in it to try the comfort factor.

Rococo I am really in a tizzy over paint colors as my last painting project consisted of painting the mb at our other place a lovely (or so I thought) color called watermelon slice. It was a glorious color on the sample but looked just over the top when it was finished. At some point I will have it repainted because it is definitely too much of a good thing. I am totally impressed with the job the installers are doing and I think it is neat that they are putting protective pads on all the furniture as they put things back in their place.

RKB I am anxious to get it all finished so I can post pictures. I am so looking forward to seeing more of your re-do. Did the granite problem get resolved? I have serious window envy when I look at your kitchen. Your window is such a lovely focal point. I definitely hope for smooth sailing for both of us in our projects.

Linelle I agree about red adding a lot of beauty. I noticed this evening that almost all of my wood furnishings have red under tones. Maybe it was that little imp in me that said "come on now, you know you love red" that caused me to choose the flooring I did. I am thinking about moving our larger mahogany dining room suite to this house but I just can't get into another decision yet.

Thanks again to all of you for weighing in. I just love GW!!!!

Just read through the thread and I'm glad it's turning out okay.

You know, I have this thing where I remember something a certain way and when real life doesn't match my memory I kind of freak out until I can see that, oh yeah, that was what it looked like. Memory plays tricks on me.

Anyway, glad you are liking your floor, it sounds like really pretty wood.

Sapele Hardwood floors darkens over time. I find this floor beautiful!

Here is a link that might be useful: Sapele darkens over time- sure is beautiful!

I am so glad you are making friends with your floor!
Btw - I installed our never mt today. It works great! Thank you!!

A2, so glad it is installed and you are very welcome! It surely is a small world. My stepdaughter went to DSD. I believe she graduated in 92. I am loving the floor more each day. It is lovely and today when I walked out of the bedroom and saw the floor I was glad I stayed with it.

Lynn, it truly is a lovely floor. I am embarrassed to admit that I chose it for looks alone. I took all of about five minutes to choose the look that I wanted when I was looking for flooring for our family room and dining room last year. I had so much going on in my business that we put the floor on hold. When I decided to do the kitchen I was glad I waited because I went with the chestnut rather than the henna.

Deedles, I think I have a problematic memory as well. Especially as you said, with remembering what something looks like when it is not right in view. I suppose I just overlooked the reddish tinge as almost all my wood furnishings tend to be tinged with red.

Big sigh of relief. It seems that in almost every project---big orsmall ---something comes up that isn't the way we imagined. I'm glad your something has turned out to be all right in the end.

Edited to delete duplicate post---sorry.

This post was edited by sail-away on Thu, May 30, 13 at 20:45

Yes sail. It seems like if it's not one thing it's another. I am sure there will be more drama to come before our project is complete.

Holly-Kay, When you have time, we would love to see pictures. I have seen pictures of Sapele before it darkened and after it darkened and truly is a beautiful floor that is very stable, neutral and gorgeous. I know you will be happy. I also get nervous because a sample always looks different when the whole floor is done. The same with paint. A little bit on the wall is scary but when all the wall is done, it is amazing how different it looks. Paint also picks up colors in the room and lighting so it looks different in each room.

What width did you go with? I may look at Sapele also for my new floors when I remove the damaged wood floors from my flood in March 2013.

Suzannesl, I love your floors and I love your toy chest. The Sapele sure looks like Mahogany.

KKSMama, any pictures of your floors as now I am thinking of looking at Sapele also but I have to find out who sells it in the engineered format as I have a slab floor due to the wetlands I live in.

So happy it's working out and how cool is it that the owner of the flooring store made customer satisfaction a priority. Can we clone him?
Please post pictures when you're finished.

Found a picture, this was actually the floor the first time I chose it - after a leak ruined the floors I considered all my options again and ended up with the same wood in a wider plank (with a micro bevel edge, layed on the diagonal). It is engineered and made by Lauzon. I posted quite a bit in the flooring forum, but it was many years ago!

Island, I agree that we should clone Chip! He is awesome. This is the second time I used him for a home project and it won't be the last. His installers were first rate and did an absolutely awesome job with the install. I am using his store for the backsplash as well because I know the job will be done properly.

Lynn, I believe they are 5 inch plank. I will double check the box in the morning but I am almost certain they are 5 inch.They are engineered hardwood from Mannington. They are very dark but they sure are gorgeous. My kitchen is covered from stem to stern with canvas and cardboard and the cabinets are sitting there just waiting to be installed on Monday

I am anxious for the reno to be finished. I am helping DML in her transition from her home to a long term care facility. Thank goodness she is being fairly chipper about it and the home is lovely with top notch care.

KKSMama, I love your Sapele Floors! Thank you for sharing. I am sure they are just as beautiful in the wider plank also.

Holly-Kay, I am glad you are loving your new floor and I can't wait to see pictures when you have your kitchen done.

I almost always hate everything when it's first going in. Takes me a few hours to adjust.

The only thing that concerns me a little is that the wood wasn't given a chance to acclimate. I hope that doesn't cause any problems for you down the line.