Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
bluerdgddrs

Sacrifice 1/2 bath or hearth room? Layout advice needed

bluerdgddrs
9 years ago


We are a family of five that just bought a home based on location,land not on the kitchen. I thought I would do the right thing and try to live with it for a bit to see how it functions. Well guess what-it doesn't. So now we are getting ready to gut it all, which leads to my question. We have to get more space so either we go back and remove 1/2 bath or we go forward and eat up a little of the hearth room. We cannot expand the width because of basement stairs.

Everything can move electrical, windows, plumbing etc. All appliances will be replaced and soffits will be removed/ceilings raised. Kitchen is definitely a working kitchen...canning, baking, cooking. Informal entertaining holidays etc with extended family.

So what would you do? We do have another guest bath on this floor, although it's at the opposite end of house. We also have another living room but as we all know everyone loves to gather in kitchen, at least that's what I hope to accomplish.

Oh and our kids are 19,18 & 12 so not long before we're completely empty but they do all still love to help bake, cook and especially eat.

1 square=1 foot.

Thank you for any guidance.

Comments (70)

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Bbtrix.

    Thanks. Ok here we go;

    Family of five 19,18,12

    Oldest boys, youngest girl so she is usually helping me along with a dog or two.

    Function definitely. I believe anything can be made to look pretty.

    Home cooking, canning, baking. Huge gardens so need plenty of space.

    #1 priority. Better layout no matter where that may be.

    Windows, doors can all move. We own a construction firm so needless to say I am going to put my employees to good work :)

    Siding, roof is all getting redone at the same time so no need to match anything up.

    Windows are new casements so will reuse,repurpose if necessary.

    Keep some foods in kitchen but have large pantry in basement.

    My views are beautiful no matter what way I look out. No neighbors, 10 acres, wooded, long range views.

    House is a 77 ranch with full finished walkout.

    Other bath is located down by bedrooms in hall.

    Yes it has decks off of sliders that can be reworked if needed.

    We just moved back "home" from out of state so this will be

    We would like it to be a great space where one day my grand kids can help me make cookies :).

    Anything else I'm missing?

    Thanks again everyone!

  • bbtrix
    9 years ago

    Beautiful! Yes, this makes quite a difference to have this background! It's basically an open book to create a great kitchen and home!

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thank you. It's always nice to hear that we weren't crazy and could actually see the potential that we do for a living on our own home :)

    I'm hoping to get some more great ideas from here before going to the cabinetmaker. I've seen some poorly designed kitchens done by the "pros" and fabulous ones here designed by the "amateurs".

  • jill314
    9 years ago

    I love the idea of opening up the stairs to the basement. I'm not sure what else to suggest... I will think on it!

    I will say that, from the perspective of cooking with grandchildren, having an eat-in kitchen with a big kitchen table works great. With little kids, I personally get nervous if they're perched on stools next to an island, and I don't really like the look of an island with two surface heights. So I would probably do some sort of layout that had counters and appliances around the perimeter and a farmhouse-type table interior to the space.

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Jill that sounds like how I grew up with my grandmothers kitchen. Great memories. I'm pretty sure I've probably got 10yrs or so before I will have to worry about little ones but I would like to design a space that will withstand time with just some updates. Layout, layout, layout. That's what it's all about.

  • bbtrix
    9 years ago

    Have any plans for a screened in porch or four seasons room? If one could be built next to the deck at the top right of the plan, then French or sliders could replace that window so the other patio doors could be removed making wall space for kitchen expansion and still give you access to he deck/outside.

    I live in the Midwest also and a screen porch is high on my priority list. I think it would be optimal to keep the powder and mud area and extend into the hearth room, opening up the staircase. You can have a great transitional, indoor/outdoor space, with good traffic flow to the LR/DR, especially if you consider a screen porch.

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Yes actually we have thought about doing just that. We have previously lived in NC and Florida where we had large lanai's. It is one of the things I miss most. The thing that might trip us up is there is a huge tree in the way but there may be a way around it.

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago

    I would also move the kitchen into the hearth room. I love a fireplace in the kitchen :)

    Here's a quick idea...with a snack center (sink, undercounter fridge, maybe microwave) by the banquette. No overheads, so the basement is more open but you don't lose the storage.

    The kitchen has lots of light, island seating and a few comfy chairs (maybe a small ottoman) by the fireplace. Just a few ideas... {{!gwi}}From Kitchen plans

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago

    As for the porch, could you add it to the back...accessed through the living room and possibly the master bedroom? That would be really nice and leave your deck open for BBQ, sunny seating, etc.

    Maybe add a narrow deck from the porch around the top right of the house (avoiding the trees) to tie it in with the deck?

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks Lavender I was hoping that you would chime in. I always love your ideas and this one is no exception. I love that the kitchen turned into cozy nook. We really are not formal dining kind of people so this would be used daily for sure. So you think get rid of the built ins around the fireplace? I was thinking of having them done in same cabinetry as kitchen. This picture is when it was for sale and before I white washed the brick.

  • bbtrix
    9 years ago

    Love it! So glad Lavender is back! Love the screen porch idea with connecting narrow deck. Is that doable? My DH and I were just discussing the various ways to add one on or convert a deck. We also own a construction company, but just retired last fall and are slowly winding down. Since you're doing siding and the roof, now would be a great time to consider it. I have a friend with a screen porch on the corner of her house and is connected to multi-level decks and around the house - very conducive to the traffic flow. And hate to lose a tree.

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago

    Oh, I like the built-ins! Why ever get rid of good storage? You could match them to the kitchen cabinets or even have the island or snack area (by stairs) a complementary color or wood. So many possibilities...

    White washed brick fireplace, wood floors, great cabinetry...add lots of windows and new appliances....what's not to love? That would pretty much be my dream kitchen!

    Thanks Bbtrix :)

  • bbtrix
    9 years ago

    Don't you think you could still do the built-ins with cozy chairs in front? I really like that look with the hearth and it adds storage. Where do you watch TV, in the living room? Is the fireplace 2-sided to LR?

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    That's what I'm hoping for Lavender and bbtrix you guys are bringing my dream to light:) Yes fireplace is two sided as shown. We watch tv mostly in basement but also have a tv above fireplace right now on hearth side. If we go this route we can put tv in living room if necessary. So since you guys are the ones that have been helping me soo much should we just make the decision to run with it and try to hone in on layout? I'm getting excited! Where are you bbtrix in the Midwest if you don't mind me asking?

  • bbtrix
    9 years ago

    In Illinois near St.Louis. Where are you? I love your property. It's what we're looking for, a great location to either build or renovate great bones. We need to decide soon befor DH's body wears out;)

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks bbtrix. We are in Michigan right outside of Grand Rapids. Main reason we bought the house, it's country but 10 minutes we can be in downtown. Yep, that's what I'd call this house a "fixer" but with good bones and great light. I hope you find one too. I think it's more fun to renovate then to build new my dh would disagree I bet. Thanks again for all your help.

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago

    I think the TV in the living room is a great idea! People will be in the kitchen for so many other reasons...and it's nice to have a place to watch a movie or sports, without going downstairs.

    Have you seen the cover of Country Sampler's Prairie magazine? The chair looks a lot like the one you posted on the other thread...and it has a white fireplace! It even has a little ottoman :)

    There's a table too...but I would rather have the island with banquette, given your space. It's so wonderful to have a fireplace right in the kitchen. I have tons of pictures, but most of them are from old magazines and not online.

    Let me see if I can find this cover picture online....

    Found it! {{!gwi}}From Kitchen tables and vintage kitchens

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Yep, Lavender that's the feel I want. I grew up in a big ol drafty farmhouse and I've been fortunate to live in some really nice houses but that feeling is what I want. This is an antique counter that I'm thinking of using for an island if possible. I hope it's still available by the time we decide. We are on the same page I think :).

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago

    Beautiful :)

  • jennifer132
    9 years ago

    Knowing that you are able to move windows/doors, I would definitely build around LLs design and switch the kitchen to the current hearth room. I really like keeping a door out to that lovely backyard, through a screened porch and decks. You keep the half-bath and mud room entrance. And the light and wonderful views of that property! Look forward to watching your progress.
    Jennifer

  • greenhaven
    9 years ago

    I am so glad I cracked open this thread! Layout is not my forte, but I got curious when you mentioned on threepinktrees' thread that your layouts were similar.

    I love your space and your property! And I am in SW Michigan, Baroda. Maybe an hour and half? Always nice to meet fellow Michiganders! We are brand-new to the state and are going to love it.

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Jennifer thanks for the encouragement. I'm sure I will have a ton more questions along the way.

    Greenhaven welcome to the Mitten! Michigan gets a bad rap sometimes when people think that it's all like Detroit. Every time when living out of state the Pure Michigan commercials would come on and I would tear up so I knew it was time to come back "home". The west side is just beautiful. Have you made it up this way yet or farther?

  • greenhaven
    9 years ago

    I have only been as far north as South Haven, and that only to go the Menards. ;o)

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Well if you ever have a chance to come up north it is gorgeous. Let me know if you need any info. Menards does have some nice stuff sometimes :)

  • Jillius
    9 years ago

    I've had this pinned forever:

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-M3XGl3uTuEI/T4LZzj_8jwI/AAAAAAAAGCI/EtfFRbv8fjs/s1600/sasha-seymour-kitchen-brass-white.jpg

    The nice thing about what they did there (aside from the skylight and general beauty) is they ran the kitchen counter around/through the fireplace. I think it makes the fireplace seem less random and more like a true part of the kitchen. Also, doing this would enable you consider making one leg of your L-shaped kitchen be on the fireplace wall, instead of having both legs on window walls. Then you could keep the full length of the window next to the deck door unchanged (not shortened to fit counters under it), which would mean more light, more view, etc.

    It would also be my preference to have the kitchen L-shape seemingly facing/highlighting/grouped around the view of the outdoors instead of seeming to face the fireplace/seating area. I love fireplace for warmth and ambiance, but it's not as interesting as looking at wildlife and children and stuff outdoors, and you get a feeling a spaciousness when looking through windows that you don't get when looking at brick.

  • bbtrix
    9 years ago

    I grew up in Chicago, but somehow had the soul of a country gal. My girl friends and I ventured to Wisconsin as often as we could and crossed over to upper Michigan. Love the north woods. We also spent much time crossing into Michigan from the south. Love both states and Lake Michigan. Illinois, right now, it's a meh!

    I think your plan is on a roll. How could it not with it's bones. Have you chosen your appliances - have dimensions? Is one sink good for you or do you see a cleanup and a prep? That was a big decision for me. Sink and DW on island or not? I love the antique counter, so I would guess that would rule out plumbing?

  • Texas_Gem
    9 years ago

    lavender- thank you SOO much for posting that layout. It is exactly what I was trying to convey.

    I almost exclusively post from my cell phone and so far, I have yet to find a decent app that let's me draw a floor plan.

    Anyone have any suggestions? Of course I probably shouldn't get an app like that since the reason I post from my phone is usually quick 5 minute breaks between taking care of the kids. ;)

    Anyway, OP, you have a GREAT space to work with, and so many options. I can't wait to see how it turns out!

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Jillius-
    Thanks and good points. I have that picture pinned as well. I did already plan on leaving builtins around fireplace anyways so that may in deed be the easiest. Now then, would you turn the island? Or leave as LL suggested? I wish I could draw it but on my ipad I don't an app. I need to find one, anybody know of a good one?

    Bbtrix-
    Chicago is our absolute favorite city. How lucky to have grown up there. Lake Michigan is a beauty; just as beautiful as the Gulf of Mexico I just left except no sharks and a tad bit colder;).

    Haven't chose appliances yet so before I was thinking with space limitations I would have to do 36" range but now I could maybe do separate cooktop/wall ovens? Probably not seeing that I would like to leave as much window space as possible. I'm a big light person so the more the better for me.

    One sink really doesn't bother me too much as long as it's a big one but a prep sink would probably be very convenient I've never had one. Last kitchen sink was in large island and as long as the island is deep enough I would do it again if I had too.

    The antique counter was something I saw and thought it was beautiful, my husband thinks I'm nuts. He's definitely not into repurposing, he would prefer to have it built new. He thinks old looks old, probably doesn't bode well for me :) That counter also had no drawers and if I've learned anything here it's to have as many as possible so it may be out.

    What do you think? And thanks for helping too.

    Texas-
    When you hear of an app let me know and thanks for the support.

    So if I were to do an L like Jillius suggested with big island the range would be on back wall and sink in island? Then maybe do a window on each side of range kind of like this?

    I'm going to get out my old school graph paper and see what I can come up with. I'll be back with questions I'm sure. Thanks again everybody, this is fun!

  • greenhaven
    9 years ago

    bbtrix said: "Love both states and Lake Michigan. Illinois, right now, it's a meh!"

    I agree, for the most part! We had a dream home overlooking 3000 acres of prairie, but the rest of Illinois absolutely pales in comparison to Michigan. It reminds me a LOT of Wisconsin, another great state.

    As for your layout, in the spirit of keeping it on-topic, while the idea of seating flanking the fireplace is appealing, if you are going to keep built-ins or put counters/cabs there the chairs just will not do, since that ends up putting them in your work space.

    I would opt, instead, to build your 'L' around the fireplace and "top" wall if you are truly going to incorporate the fireplace directly into your kitchen and work space.

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Green-
    I'm thinking that I love what LL posted above because yes the fireplace has builtins that I will keep and have made to match cabinetry. I don't feel as if I can get any working space out of them. So essentially I would have a one wall kitchen. I hope you can understand what I'm saying.

    Do you think it would be better to orient the island toward the fireplace or toward the now kitchen?

    Thanks again

  • bpath
    9 years ago

    Oh, I've been enjoying this thread and the state-talk. I love all three states!

    Now, about the fireplace, while Jillius' pic is intriguing, once the fireplace is that integrated it's less useful or even visible when you're standing up and working. I like Lavender's where, even with the built ins, you could sit at the island and turn a bit to enjoy the fire. This has the added benefit of distracting people from any cooking mess or how much wine you poured into the sauce;)

  • bbtrix
    9 years ago

    You might get a tad more space if you turn the island 90 degrees and put the range on the deck wall with the two windows like your inspiration picture. I think that would balance the room, fireplace on one end and range statement on the opposite, and give you a slightly longer island. This would give you views in all directions. One of the reasons I asked about one or two sinks is because I agonizingly went through this decision and chose only one massive one, but then again it's only the two of us - and we always battle for sink time. Consider your style of cooking and how you place things when you can or bring in fresh veggies. I need contiguous counter space to spread out with the fridge and water nearby. I moved my sink from under the window to the island so I'll be able to do my initial prepping at the island talking with DH at island or look out our large front window. I'll then take one pivot behind to my very large prep area next to the stove and still have my window and birds to watch.

    So, if you turn the island and move the range, you'll have more isle space for traffic to the fridge and more room for hearth side chairs. You could either orient a DW and sink on the fridge wall (with large window) or the island, or both.

    Masking tape will help visualize the space today. Do you have any large boxes? Also, don't forget about the screen porch/4seasons room. Is there any chance of it being included? I wouldn't worry about chairs in front of the hearth built-ins, I would see the built-ins holding books, collectables, and less used items in the drawers/cabinets. Oh, and the wall over the newly opened staircase, what a space to display art! It will be a joy to hang at your banquette, island or sit next to the fire.

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Bbtrix-

    Thanks again and yes I love your sink set-up. One big honkin sink and I think I would be a happy girl. I am kind of a space hog when I cook. I need wide open space because I too like to spread out. So one sink in island with dw and 48" aisles?

    So you would face island to fireplace with back to range? I think that's what your saying.

    I was thinking about the back wall putting the two big windows I have together so that wall would be essentially all windows. Then the wall with the patio door could be reworked.

    Would one wall and massive island of all drawers be enough? I'm off to find some leftover moving boxes and get experimenting :).

    Thanks again

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago

    First, another range with windows on each side...
    {{gwi:1422638}}From Kitchen tables and vintage kitchens

    The reason I have the island that way...is so that the prep sink works with the range. When you said you have 3 children, who like to help....and the future possibility of little ones wanting to help...a prep sink sounded like a good idea!

    That's why I also put a sink over by the banquette, with the under counter fridge, for a nice little snack area. Both are intended to keep helpers in the snack area, the clean up area and at the island...but not invading your main work area.

    If it's just going to be you and your husband for some years, you may want to change the layout.

    As for the built-ins, on each side of the fireplace...I thought they were for books and display. I always need more storage and I would love to have a place for large cookbooks, as well as smaller books just for reading in front of the fire. Another reason to keep those chairs to curl up in.

    My mom used to live in Illinois (she graduated from U of I) but she moved to eastern Washington because she missed the mountains! Although we're five miles from Idaho, we can't see them from my house, but we do have some pretty hills...if you climb one, then you can see the mountains :) {{gwi:325130}}From Lavender's Garden

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    So pretty Ll. Our daughter has always wanted a horse and this house has stables in the pole barn so we will see. My dad always referred to them as "hay burners". It always makes me calm looking at them though:).

    That picture I have always loved and have it saved. I've got my blue painters tape out right now and trying it out. This way is approx 7 ft from fp, 4x9 island and 4ft from range wall(patio wall). My dh just walked through and doesn't think that 7 ft would be enough for chairs in front of fireplace.

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Chair granted it's a big one?

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Here it is flip-flopped with back wall being fridge, range and sink still in island but rotated. Still 7 ft from fp, 48" aisles and island is now 6' x 5' 1/2".

    Opinions?

    I'm starting to think that either I have to center everything in the room and the fireplace just becomes in an accent but you really can't sit and enjoy it or I don't know what to do?

    This is the frustrating part but at least it's just painters tape :)

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago

    LOL That's what my husband calls them! I say they're little Hoovers out eating all our pasture, as quickly as possible. But, they sure are cute...and very sweet :)

    A 4' x 9' island is really big. Are you planning to have the prep sink...or is that the size of the CL find, you have pictured above?

    I would say if you do not put a stool at the end of the island, then it might work. I'd probably want 8'...just to have plenty of room to pass through. However, I think a smaller chair would be more in scale with the space. Maybe a good excuse to do some shopping? LOL

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    So maybe then a 3' x 9' island then that would leave 8' to the fireplace. And that's to the hearth that sticks out 18" so I could sneak them off to the side even and get more room. Yes the furniture will all go and new will be purchased....darn ;).

    Is 3' too shallow to have your main sink in? I'll have to do some digging.

    Thanks again Ll.

  • christina222_gw
    9 years ago

    How about the range directly opposite the fireplace with windows on each side and the main sink on the other wall, window above, prep sink (if desired) on the island? Or did you already try that and I missed it? If you put the main sink and dishwasher on the perimeter you can make the island a bit smaller to allow for chairs by the fireplace.

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Good point Christina. I haven't tried that yet. I'll draw that out. Thank you.

  • bbtrix
    9 years ago

    My island is 52" x 8'. We had to reduce it to accommodate the walnut. That gives us a good amount of workspace and overhang. If you put your main sink in the island you'll want it at least 40" to allow for seating. We chose 42" for our aisle between stove and island. We kept moving the pieces until it felt right for two to move around. I wanted to be able to pivot. We used 44" for our other aisle. Is DH opposed to losing space around the hearth?

    LL, beautiful! My brother lives in Salmon, ID. I've never visited (So hard to get to), but the pix are breathtaking.

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    No dh isn't opposed he's just worried that if were right on top of it, it might feel wired I guess. Every picture that I see with a fp they are either raised completely to eye level or you're able to have seating around them.

    I didn't have any boxes tall enough so I'm going to do that tomorrow then see how it feels standing behind the island so to speak. It always helps me get a sense of the space. So aisles don't have to be 48" that's good to know I don't know why I thought that they did. If I could end up with an island as nice as yours I would be beyond thrilled :)

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago

    Salmon, Idaho...I don't know where that is but it sounds nice!

    The island could turn 90 degrees...but the fridge probably won't work on the other wall, if you have the door outside. I mean, you could make it fit, but the fridge will be blocking your view of the door..and a bit of the banquette.

    However, if you don't plan to have an under counter fridge, you might want to make the large fridge more accessible to everyone. What do you plan to have? Do you need a freezer? Would that be downstairs or in the mudroom? Do you want a big range or do you need a wall oven?

    I just drew a basic layout (popular right now) with fridge and range across from prep sink and clean up on the other wall. Make sure you know how you want to use the space and adjust the layout, accordingly :)

    Oh, and if you want stools on the opposite side, I believe an island should be 3 1/2' across...and most walkways are 3 1/2' to 4' depending on access to appliances, etc.

  • Jillius
    9 years ago

    I just randomly came across this picture while looking for stuff for my own kitchen, and I immediately thought of you:

    http://st.houzz.com/simgs/00b152bb0d75118e_4-4145/-kitchen.jpg

    I like how it's open on either side of the fireplace -- it's both interesting and adds a feeling of spaciousness and togetherness with the living room while still maintaining separation. I don't know about anybody else, but I like open concepts in theory, but I always find it odd when it looks like someone just built a kitchen in a corner of another room. Things that make the rooms open to each while still making them feel separate (as in this picture) are somewhat of a holy grail for me.

    I also think it's clever (in the picture) how they kept the colors/finishes of the fireplace consistent with the kitchen colors/finishes. It makes the fireplace look intentional and like it belongs there (and less like you built your kitchen in a family room).

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    So my gwebbers suggestions won't work so no back to drawing board. I've started new thread if you care to be so generous with your time again :(. Aghhhhh.......

  • debrak2008
    9 years ago

    I don't see your new thread....what is it called?

  • bluerdgddrs
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Gwebbers suggestions can't happen.

    Thanks!!

  • cindallas
    9 years ago

    Just thought I'd link the new thread so others won't have to hunt for it ....

    Here is a link that might be useful: New thread

Sponsored
EA Home Design
Average rating: 5 out of 5 stars69 Reviews
Loudoun County's Trusted Kitchen & Bath Designers | Best of Houzz