Gourmet food and food tech sites are not very interested in the Advantium.

I did find the discussion attached on modernist egullet.com. Excerpts:

--I think in the end, if you are willing to learn to cook a bit differently (or stick to things it has pre-programmed, of which there are a fair number), this can work out. On the other hand, if you aren't, it is going to end up just a very expensive microwave (but hey, the stainless interior is pretty cool! :-O )

--When my friends remodeled their kitchen 3 years ago, (all electric home) they were talked into an Advantium oven by the contractor.
After 4 months they had it taken out and a combination convection/microwave made by Panasonic installed instead.

They found it was difficult to clean, had hot spots so that parts of a dish were overcooked and other parts undercooked and the same problem with cookies, some would be burnt while others were barely baked. When I used it while visiting that Christmas, I found that it was not as efficient as my Sharp countertop combination oven (that I had taken with me as we had a lot of food to prepare and knew the size of their oven was not enough for all of it.)

--I opted for the Dacor (Panasonic) convection microhood. It gives me a second oven for the rare times I need it. Inside is SS and is easily cleaned with a spray of 409. Cooks the same as the big oven. I like to combination methods (30% microwave plus convection heat). Cooked a boness leg of Lamp (2.5lbs) to med in 20 minutes...nice and crusted on the outside too.

Not sure if the Advantium is a "better" system but I didnt need to learn another way to cook.

-- FWIW, I think convection is more intuitive. People can just think of it as baking. Since the Advantium uses radient cooking, this requires an adjustment in thinking.

Here is a link that might be useful: Egullet.com discusses Advantium

Interesting as I always thought I wanted an advantium. I feel the same way about convection, in that it is a whole different cooking system. So many say convection is the way to go but you have to recalculate every recipe. I have yet to see a recipe that shows show to use a convection.

What are you thoughts on convection cooking?

I really need to google sous vide as I keep seeing it mentioned but have no clue what it means.

On thing Modernist Cuisine says about microwaves raises an interesting question about the Advantium. It is based on the physics of the waves.

They don't heat very small items at all. They will not melt small cubes of cheese, while it liquifies larger ones.

They only penetrate a couple of centimeters into large objects. The center of a roast can only be heated "by the slow process of conduction." Anyone with a microwave can confirm that they are not any faster at boiling water, for this very reason.

It's worth reading Vol 2, pp182-191 if you're curious.

Here is a link that might be useful: Modernist Cuisine on Amazon

This post was edited by downtowner on Tue, May 6, 14 at 17:03

I have a Gaggenau combi-steam and an Advantium, as well as a regular Gaggenau oven. All took some learning. For the reasons you state--having to learn the whole new way of thinking about cooking--was worth the bother to me for the combi-steam, but since I sort of lost my need for speed at about the time the Advantium was installed, I haven't put the effort into that. I do, however, sometimes have a good use for the speed feature, and have learned to approximate what I want done by drawing analogies to the size and density of something on one of the programs.

I haven't had any issues with even cooking on the convection oven settings. There are things that do better on convection only heating, however, that's the same across all three ovens. I'm not a 1950's style cook (taking your meaning), but I do make pots of stuff. Stews, braises, and casseroles such as lasagna or the occasional kugel. I find anything that's meant to cook in a pot or dish does fine in convection only, but things that cook in the air often do better with directed heat, unless they're small like cookies or hors d'ouevre. I haven't tried baking in the Advantium, but it's my convection oven of choice for heating up lots of small things that you might find on a "passed hot apps" tray. It does a great job. Usually these things were originally cooked in the big oven on big trays, however.

Is it for gourmet cooking? Probably not, if you're excluding things like braises, which are the opposite of sous vide in that they're also low and slow, but are meant to cook the ingredients to the fullest, rather than barely cooking them at all. I wouldn't agree with that definition of "gourmet", especially considering things like sour cherry duck legs, which are really amazing. I do agree that it is not a Modernist thing to do, however.

I have tried the chicken in the Advantium speedcook thing, to try it. It's edible, but has a microwaved taste to it. I wouldn't use it for baking potatoes, either, unless really pressed for time. But I might use it to bake potatoes for potato salad, since I prefer baked to boiled, and the flavor is fine. Intermediate cooking can be done quickly in it to good advantage.

Just like a countertop microwave or convection oven, the Advantium is a tool, like a food processor, more than a cooker like a Gaggenau oven. It really is meant more for harried families and people who live in vehicles (boats, motorhomes, etc.). Mine functions well for me and serves a lot of my needs. So far (touch wood and tell the fairies), in four years of regular use, mine hasn't had a problem. I'm sorry yours expensively crapped out on you.

I'm not into modernist cuisine, but I think one of the primary things any serious cook cares about is control. I've always viewed microwaves and advantiums as purpose-built tools. Great for reheating, thawing, or maybe cooking a pizza. But not really in the same category as a stove or oven in terms of versatility and control.

debrak,

The answer for the speed advantage of forced convection ovens is: it depends.

MC (2, 108ff) says they speed drying, rather than cooking. They reduce drag and move the boundary layer deeper. Food releases humidity when heated, and this humidity slows down the heating process. Blowing air on this, allows the food to cook faster. "Convection baking is faster, but often only slightly." It speeds up the cooking the most with thin foods like bacon, according to MC.

I find with my Gaggenau ovens with convection that I can't predict when it will speed cooking up. Sometimes things cook in 30% less time than the recipe, but some of that is more accurate and consistent temperature, I believe.

According to MC, the inaccuracy and variability of oven thermostats and temperatures, the irregular pattern of temperature because of their geometry and degree of cleanliness of the oven, and our inability to control humidity, and that most of the humidity comes from food so that big batches actually cook faster -- all this makes oven cooking very far from scientific and controllable.

It doesn't bother me much. I guess I'm used to it. But it's interesting.

I would love to get a Gaggenau combi steam oven, just because it seems so interesting to control the wet bulb temperature. But for low temp steaming, sous vide has better control. For regular steaming, I can use a large pot or pressure cooker. For convection cooking and broiling/grilling I'm well covered. So the only practical need I have is for somewhat more convenient steam cooking from 140-212 degrees F. So I actually have a much greater practical need for a good microwave once I ditch the Advantium.

The Advantium lets you control the amount of microwave power and the oven temperature when cooking. A Sharp (or GE) convection microwave will NOT allow you to control either. The temperature/microwave settings are fixed.

I don't GE has designed any appliances for Modernist Cooking. More like Modern Family cooking.

LOL! Rococogurl, that is SO true!

Downtowner, I think maybe I'm missing your point. If what you were say is that with all the devices you're using you can save money by not replacing the Advantium with another, then, yes, absolutely, you don't have a need for the features so why pay for them? You're absolutely right. And, having one, I can assure you that there isn't anything you could do in the combi-steam that you can't do in your kitchen as it stands, except the "regenerate" setting, but you could probably even figure out a way to create the right circumstances in your regular oven.

For me the advantage that makes the combi-steam worth every single penny for the appliance, trenching the slab to get plumbing to it, all the special cabinet considerations, etc., is that I HATE steaming on the stove, and I hate blanching almost as much. I had just about come to terms with using a microwave for steaming when doing all the different vegetables for a salad broke my favorite Pyrex pot. Recently, I steamed nine quarts of root vegetables for a dish and it was no effort and little time. And I can blanch veg in no time. It's the prep that's the work. My mother is jealous. :)

It's nothing that anyone needs who is willing to bother with steaming, blanching and poaching the old fashioned way.

You said, "..all this makes oven cooking very far from scientific and controllable." And? Cooking is an art, not a science. If you understand the science behind it, it can inform your art, but I'd rather eat a simple meal made by a mom who can cook than from a scientist who can explain foams, gels and powders but doesn't know how to make them nutritious or tasty. :) The trick is to have the former art and be able to enhance it with all the the Modernist tricks. Can you get a perfect sous vide in even the most accurate oven? No. It's worth getting the proper controler. Can you make really fabulous food in a crappy oven? Yup.

Reading this thread makes me really sad that I have to sell my new never installed older model gaggenau combi-steam oven on the Baltimore craigslist now since I can no longer fit it into my kitchen remodel. Hoping some sous vide aficionado or modernist cuisine artist will be able to use it!