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schorert_gw

Fun read! Grout help! careless contractors and a lawsuit?

schorert
9 years ago

We had, what we thought was a simple tile backsplash project, we hired a local professional tile company who hired a subcontractor. Mis-measuring of area resulted in one day stretching into two weekends.
On Saturday number two the tile guy showed up 3.5hours late. They set to work finishing the subway tile, then grouted the subway tile and a framed stone detail above the stove. I came in about this point and discovered that they had grouted the subway tile and stone in grey...not grey on subway and tan on detail. I was furious and the contractor ensured me he would fix it. I left and came back an hour later, the gray was gone and he was finishing the tan. All the grey he had removed was now on the floor behind our brand new Capital range. on the cabinets and all over the back of the stove. the stove top and door (out from the wall 8") was covered with a blanket.
The contractor climbed up on the brand new quartz countertop and started trying to clean the back of the stove, and stove enclosure, from above. He spoke to his friend in portugeuse and announced "we need to move the stove so I can clean back there".
I went to see and observed that our new hardwood floors, in front of the stove, were not protected in any way, there was dry and wet grout on the floor, and footprints to indicate he had been walking in it (scratched). it was obvious that moving the stove out further would damage the floors more. I was furious at this point...told the subcontractor to leave.
He starts packing up his things. he uncovers the stove and takes all of his things out to the car. He comes back and furiously begins cleaning the floor, he's almost done when i go to inspect....the oven door on our capital is hanging off of one hinge, the door is dented, the top of the stove has grout dripped on it. I LOST it. I called the sub into the kitchen to look at the damage, he becomes angry, threatening, pointing his finger in my face telling me "you did this, you're a f*cking liar". I took out my phone to snap a photo and he told me "don't take a f-ing picture of that f-ing stove". I told the guy to leave or I was calling the cops. (it is obvious to me know that they tried to move the stove by lifting it by it's handle, when the door broke, they simply threw a blanket over it and left it in place, his intention was to remove the blanket, roll the stove back and leave).
The contractor came and looked and said "we'll buy you a new stove, we'll eat the tile job, we'll fix the floors". They have since rescinded this offer and are now offering to have the stove repaired. My wife says she is entitled to a brand new stove, since she had a new stove when they arrived. the grout in stone detail is now, 48 hours later, shrinking and cracking! I say the grout needs to be removed and replaced, the company wants to simply cover it with more grout.
For the first time in my life I've sought the advice of an attorney and feel that instead of letting the contractor cobble together a repair that leaves nobody satisfied.
Does anyone have an opinion on the stability of cracked grout and adding more grout as a remedy?

Comments (26)

  • lisadlu
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow. It's sad there are so many incompetent workers out there. I would not feel comfortable adding more grout to cracked grout. It should be removed and redone properly. Something must be wrong with the grout to begin with to crack so quickly so I'm wondering if they mixed the grout correctly? You are on the right side of this debacle so stick to your guns in a polite, civilized way. Document everything. Good luck!

  • jellytoast
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If a company came into my home and thoroughly hacked it up as your tile company did, I would not allow them to add more of anything onto their already messed up application.

    I would contact the state contractor licensing board as well as their bonding company. Do they have liability insurance?

  • schorert
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    the grout was definitely not mixed correctly, it was too wet and it sagged. I am collecting pricing on fixing the floors, a new stove, and having the stone mosaic removed and re-done.
    ALL of this problem would have been avoided if the contractor provided HIS subcontractor with an actual plan.
    The absolute WORST part was, first thing, the assistant fills his nasty old mortar bucket (COVERED on the outside with hardened cement) in our BRAND NEW SHAW SINK to fill it...he lifted it out of the sink and put it down on our BRAND NEW CAMBRIA COUNTERTOP! who the F*CK DOES that!!?? I'm SCREAMING across the house and he doesn't speak a word of english.

    Some contractors are SO good, they have a checklist to follow...they have a checklist when they finish, and they stand with you and go over it..."this is what I'm here to do, this is what I did to protect your cabinets, this is how I finished....

  • jellytoast
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    When you say that you hired a "local professional tile company" do you mean that you went through a tile store?

  • ardcp
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    oh this is so awful! it makes me want to diy everything!
    i hope you are able to recover all the costs you will encure fixing this guy's mess:)

  • Vertise
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sorry to laugh at your saga but it sounds like you got Hollyspring's infamous bargain basement toothless illegal working out of the back of his rusted pickup ... clueless. And intended to be a good deal for no one other than his employer.

    Never sign a contract where they can sub the job out. Really.

    Sometimes a letter from a lawyer to spell things out for them is all that's needed.

    Hope all is restored to your satisfaction, as it should be. Have to wonder about some of these guys, lol.

  • renov8r
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That is so scary that workers could be that careless, stupid and rude.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    schorert:

    If they make another 3 Stooges movie, at least you've written the screenplay.

  • OOTM_Mom
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    O.M.G.

    I feel so damn lucky. We've had some issues, but nothing remotely in this solar system.

    I sincerely hope you get swift and just resolution.

  • crl_
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'd be crying or yelling. Or, really, probably alternating between the two. So sorry! I hope all is resolved to your satisfaction quickly!

  • jerzeegirl
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would never allow a sub to do tile work. Tiling and carpentry are the two trades where I want the guy whose name is on the truck doing the work. Having a good tiler is like having a good hair stylist - you stick with that person because you know what he or she is capable of. Tiling is an art and has to be done by a craftsperson. I found the best tiler in my area - thanks to BillV - and I would never even think of using anyone else.

    That being said, you are doing exactly what you should be doing. Get estimates for all the repairs that need to be done and, since you already have an attorney, get him/her to write a demand letter. That should scare the pants off of him.

    Since there is the possibility that your contractor will not pay the sub, the sub might try to lien you so keep an eye out for that. I guess it would depend on how crazy he is.

  • jellytoast
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    There are plenty of competent tile setters working for contractors. It's unrealistic to think that someone who is that good is not eventually going to want to make a better living by employing other people.

    Jerzeegirl, your strategy may work for small jobs, but when you have a lot of tile to lay or a lot of carpentry to be done on a job, you are going to have other people doing the work in addition to, or besides, the guy with his name on the truck.

    If you hire a GC, would you rather he do the tile work or that he sub it out to an actual tile setter?

    All that said, I agree that I would never agree to hire someone to do tile work if I didn't know the reputation of the person in charge of the installation. There are plenty of tile stores around here that advertise ridiculously stupid prices for installation. "TILE ... $1.99 per square foot INSTALLED!!" Yeah, right. Blow and go.

  • PRO
    Cabot & Rowe
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Protecting the customers home, keeping tools neat and clean, and the right materials costs money. So does insurance, taxes, and continuing education....

    This is what separates the fly-by-nighters from those of us who have been around for 30 years.

  • jerzeegirl
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    True, jellytoast, my tile guy does have an assistant who is his apprentice - that's how it works in tile - the master tiler and his apprentice who learns on the job. These guys are capable of doing large residential jobs and they do beautiful work. The good guys are out there, you just have to do a lot of research to find them.

  • StoneTech
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I know "Houston Remodeler" quite well and, occasionally work with him. Paul is absolutely "Stellar" in his work and, anyone in that general area (Houston) would do well to contact him for your project.

  • bicyclegirl1
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am so sorry to read this. Can it get anymore scary with who's out there doing work? Houstonremodler couldn't have said it better. As mentioned, you're doing everything you need to do. Document, document, document! Please let us know the outcome. Hopefully we'll be seeing an amazing reveal soon. Best of luck.

  • jellytoast
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "I know "Houston Remodeler" quite well and, occasionally work with him. Paul is absolutely "Stellar" in his work and, anyone in that general area (Houston) would do well to contact him for your project."

    Isn't this advertising?

  • jerzeegirl
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    More like a recommendation. Not advertising.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    jellytoast:

    Ssssssshhhh.

  • jellytoast
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "More like a recommendation. Not advertising."

    Did someone here ask for a recommendation?

  • schorert
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In my town, there is one major flooring/tile company.
    The sub LOOKED professional with a shrinkwrapped truck that advertised his home iimprovement services...flooring and tile.

    My wife sent him a series of photos monday morning and outlined her conditions for any remedy...floors, stove, and stonework (floors and tile will be completed by a different contractor.).
    At that time the company broke off contact with us and do not return calls or emails. I have contacted my attorney to ask for a referral to someone who can assist with this type of litigation.

  • ajc71
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am not sure what state you are in but in Massachusetts there is a law called 93A (unfair and deceptive business practice).....and if you are a legitimate business that is the last notice you want to receive via certified mail, and will do anything you can to remedy the situation. If the court rules in your favor the negligent party is responsible for your attorney fees and could also be required to pay for 3 times the damage.

    I would think this type of law is available in most states and any good attorney can take care of this for you

    Of course if the "company" you hired is not really a company, and just a couple guys working out of a pick up truck with no license, insurance etc....you will not have much luck going legal with this

  • mxdoto
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Signed up just to respond to ur post. The post I first saw had photo and specifically asked about sanded vs unsanded grout. I hope u didnt go w the cheapest bid! Wide grout joints require sanded grout. You can get away w unsanded if done right but will still have hairline cracks where grout meets tile. Either way joints that large must be done in stges. Good tile guy knows this. Ironically wide joints are generally a sign of bad (cheap) tile job. You or tile guy could have undone everything w water when you first noticed it was wrong. Even cleaning stove when grot was fresh no problem. Too bad, subs always scare me. No one trains anymore.Everything has been dumbed down or "home depoted". Loose the wide joints when u fix....looks cheap, yet wwon't be. Good luck recovering anything. You might think about a lein against contractor.

  • bicyclegirl1
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    schorert, what happened with your kitchen? I'd like to hear if an atty had to get involved or what the remedy was...if there was one. I hope you were able to get everything fixed back to new & you're happy w/ the kitchen.

  • sjhockeyfan325
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You might think about a lein against contractor

    What does this mean?

  • bicyclegirl1
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    sjhockeyfan, I think mxdoto means to put a lein on the contractors property....if he has any. But, I don't believe you can do that unless you won a lawsuit against them & they haven't paid you. I'm not a lawyer, so not 100% sure & it could be different in each state.