In every brand I carry slab doors are veneer on MDF. Only my two hit end custom brands offer a true rift cut and both are that way.
There wikk be variable od banded with tape, banded with solid wood -1/16 or 1/8. In one case the wood is applied before the veneer so the edge is not exposed (actually my semi custom brand)
I could get the hi end folks to make a solid wood door, with a disclainer for warpage, and likely with battens on the back. I would not recommend it.

Veneer is the best way for slabs, and the only real way to get bookmatching grain across the whole installation. It's pretty much the standard for all European cabinets. They would be horrified that someone wanted to use a precious resource like solid rift sawn wood for the cabinet doors.

BTW, if you could choose to go solid wood, it would be composed of several different boards and thus could be "stripey". It would also need a batten across the back that can interfere with the interior storage space. And it would be a lot more expensive without any real return for that money spent.

My drawer fronts from Scherrs are solid QS oak. The few doors we have are as well and they do have battens on the back.

Thanks. Very helpful. I guess I will learn to like the banded edge look.

Here's another thread on this topic. I went with rift oak book matched vertical grain. I was completely opposed to the veneer and MDF, but after reading and seeing other cabinets, I think it is fine for us.

Here is a link that might be useful: Previous post on rift oak veneer

Drawer fronts are held straight by the sides and bottom pieces, so they can be solid. Doors have no support to hold them against warping unless you use battens, so veneer is a superior construction method if you want plain slab doors. Even battens can't completely prevent warping, and they can cause splitting.

I fail to understand the knee-jerk prejudice against veneer ... the base layer is selected for strength and stability, the veneer is selected for appearance. It's been in use since the Egyptians, and used on some incredible pieces.

Here is a link that might be useful: Veneered cabinet

BTW- you really do not want to mix solid drawers with veneer doors if you can help it. The difference in stain color (particularly light colors) and aging can be very apparent with rift cut. Besides if you get veneer you can have the grain matched (vertical is safer BTW)

The "knee jerk" reaction is pretty understandable if you think about it. Consumers are looking for some way to determine if they are getting a good product. The process is fraught with perils, both perceived and real. "Can I trust this dealer?"

Consumers are not immersed in the ins and outs of materials and construction so rely on anecdotal evidence and suggestions. Even may KD's knowledge is limited to the mfg sales pitch. There will even be honest disagreement between "informed" pros.

People look for easy answers, for a few details that will tell them if something is good. Perfectly understandable and it leads to...."solid wood is good" "particle board is junk" "dovetail drawers are a must" and so on. Every now and then I get someone who wants the box sides made from solid wood. Unfortunately there are very few, if any, details that are telling by themselves.

Mfg's and many KD's do not help. Sales tactics often cater to fear instead of solid information.
Then there is the consumer preference in what they want to be told, how they want to buy things. The adage "sell the sizzle and not the steak" exists because it works more often than not. Technical info makes a lot of folks eyes glaze over.

In the long run it is up to the pros- to be accurately informed themselves and find ways to get the information to consumers without putting them to sleep.

That can be risky though. I know I have lost sales by telling the truth that did not jive with someone's preconceived ideas or what "the other guy" said. Lost one this month. "we like the other brand better". I know beyond a shadow they are mistaken but so be it. Really hope the reason is they like the other guy better, then it is a better choice.

Hollysprings you are so right! That whole mentality contributed to the housing collapse in 2008. People believing that their homes were worth twice what they paid 2 years prior and then pulling cash out of the false equity. Of course the banks didn't help by lending to anybody who could fog a mirror.

Have a delightful old dining room set (table, china cabinet, server. 'bar' cabinet a made with spectacular crotch mahogany veneers, with solid mahogany (yep, Cuban mahogany, that old) for the solid pieces and veneer substrates.

It largest weakness is the French polish (shellac) on the whole thing.

It is all to easily damaged by daily use without pads and tablecloths.

About once a year I do a quick pass and touch up the French polish.

I am glad that Hollysprings was clear that her post wasn't directed at me, because then I might have had a knee jerk reaction to it. And, that wouldn't have been pretty.

In my particular circumstance, I specifically discussed with the owner of the cabinet company concerns about warping, our particular cabinets, the humidity control that we have on our HVAC system and how we would be keeping door sizes down and use battens in certain instances. I particularly dislike the banded edge look. I did not think that is what I was getting. Apparently, I am correct that some people do have rift sawn doors that are solid, but it seems like there are good reasons to stay away from doing so. Had I known that the doors were going to be veneers, I would have focused on the thickness of the veneer and dealt with my concerns about the edges.

And, for anyone keeping track, I have fine veneer furniture, it just doesn't happen to have banded edges.

Have a great evening, Frogster

This post was edited by frogster on Sat, Jun 1, 13 at 21:35

Frogster- as indicated earlier veneer is a good idea- however there are several ways to deal with the edges, banding being the least desirable albeit common. Sounds like under the circumstances you might be able to prevail for an alternative.

Even if they are purchasing doors elsewhere the other options are available, including doors where the veneer is applied after a wood edging, but that does involve extended lead times.

The reaction to veneer is not knee-jerk. It is based on solid experience and a desire to avoid a product failure in the future. Solid can take a bump, veneer will lift. The edge treatment with iron on banding is more fragile than solid wood. Kitchen cabs are used every day by a range of family members and a realistic home owner needs to plan for ordinary use. Veneer cabinet grade ply with an inlaid solid edge in a 'v' cut with matched shaper knives could be a quality option.

We chose not to go with veneer because we are really hard on things, and the veneer cabinets we installed 4 years ago are getting thrashed. We have real life experience with veneer cabs, and it's not pretty.

I would use them in a non-family house, but not one with kids. I don't say that because some cabinet manufacturer convinced me, or a KD convinced me. I say that because I've seen it firsthand.

I had a veneered TV cart that was still in surprisingly good shape when I sent it to the runnage sale after a few decades- despite the fact that my 3 girls liked to repurpose it as a fire truck, taxi, choo choo train- no chips, some dents, a magic marker stain.

I built veneer slab cabinetry (edge banded)for the primary bath in 1994-still fine. There is a bit of a bow in the doors though. I was younger and still in the "plywood is best" camp. I would not use ply now.

I have veneer slab doors and veneered tops from Showplace in the office. It gets a bit more abuse than the rest of the studio- granite samples, tools from service calls, banged with door samples, crazed designer scrambling to gather things to head to an appt., and clients kids -it's fine. (These have solid wood edge with face veneer applied last)

The office was done 2 yrs ago- when Showplace did away went from solid wood slabs to veneer. That was done because of the high percent of replacements on the solid doors. They discussed it extensively with dealers who were split 50/50. Some said "I have customers who ask for solid wood". There was talk of having both in the end they dropped " all wood".

There are those that are done well and some not so good.

Everyone I talked to told me to get veneer instead of solid. So I did. The edge banding on the walnut cabinet is noticeable and looks terrible. It's a long white line along the edge of the doors. I am thinking about going with solid doors with our next rift cut white oak project. Plus, if we go solid we can stain a different color down the road.

I'd recommend veneer too but like others, don't care for the edge banding used in European-style cabinetry. 1/8" thick, solid wood edging with the veneer applied over looks much better and is in no danger of peeling off. It can also survive a significant impact on the corner without showing the mdf underneath.

I don't believe any standard cabinet shop will offer the above. A genuine custom shop should be able to do it but it would certainly cost a lot more than stock doors from a cabinet door supplier.

I wish I could locate the original study but I've been informed that the Smithsonian determined that veneered furniture has a longer lifespan than solid wood furniture. Too many people think of Sauder when they think about veneer. Think Rhulman instead to understand the value of veneer.

Veneered furniture can be stripped and re-stained without a problem. I do it all the time on pianos, altars and other pieces of veneered furniture. Damaged veneer is not much harder to repair than solid wood for someone with the right skills.

There is good veneer and bad veneer just like everything else. Quality of the piece is not only a function of the veneer itself, but of the substrate that the veneer is glued to. There are junk substrates and good substrates, you get what you pay for. In the old days lumber core plywood was used, got a piece in the shop right now, and they are usually higher quality. Now days most of the flat pack stuff is made from low end MDF and doesn't last long. There are many reasons for that. Substrate is poor, joinery is poor, and the veneer is lower quality, and most of all poor workmanship. I'm not in total agreement with MDF doors. Frame and panel doesn't require MDF, it is all solid wood (and plywood in some cases), and that method of construction has been used for hundreds of years.

If your cabinets were built with solid veneer, there is no reason those edges should be "white". They should have been stained and finished to blend in. Sounds to me they used veneer with some kind of backer, or it is the glue line showing.

Veneered furniture has been found in the Pyramids, so it's nothing new. Veneer comes in various cuts (less expensive first); rotary, flat sliced, quarter sliced, and riff (rift) sliced. If you are using white oak because you want the flakes, quarter sliced is the way to go, riff gives less flakes.

Al F.

Let me know if you're hiring!

I'm tired of the "rat race" and it sounds like you have a great time in your shop!

I'm having a hard time visualizing what edge banding looks like, the good and the bad. Can someone post a photo?

Gee, I don't know Select, your are used to the cushy CA lifestyle. 15 deg this morning, snow on the ground, partly cloudy, birds singing (snow birds ya know). It is supposed to break the freezing point sometime today though.
Can you handle that?

Can we discuss "telecommuting" ??? haha

Probably why most of the educators teaching any of the sciences at universities are foreign born is because they well work for 25% less of the pay.

Does that make them smarter?

@Select- Are you suggesting (gasp) "phoning it in"? ;-)

I agree with @Al's assessment veneer can be done well or poorly. Rift sawn is more stable than plain or flat sawn wood, so the warp factor is less of a risk.

@River, I think Select wants me to get a 3D printer, so he can send the work over the internet and make plastic stuff. NOT IN THIS SHOP!

@River...

"phone it in" indeed!

Do you live under a rock? I'd be TEXTING it in...

I'm trying to keep up with the trends...

Correct me if I am wrong - but solid wood slab doors are not necessarily made from one piece of wood. They can be made from boards that are glued together to make a slab, right?

Correct. In fact, they are almost invariably made up from multiple boards glued together. It's more stable than a single, wide board. It's also more expensive to purchase wide slabs for making 18" wide panels and most people aren't willing to pay for that markup.

This thread is the epitome of consumers and designers that are ignorant of what they are purchasing or selling.Not all but some.

@jerzeegirl-Arrghh! @Altare Design, LLC- We are getting way into the tall grass here. What you posted is generally correct; the caveat is that if wood is PROPERLY dried and handled, you can use wide slabs without any warping or cupping. This technique was advocated and used by Milo Fulton. a custom furniture maker from Medina, Ohio.

@Al- I need to get me one of them 3d printers....it'd be a lot easier than what I am doing this week; sanding back to bare wood a double staircase.

@Select-I used to bite my thumb at texters...drives me crazy...until my phone went dead one afternoon. Now I use it some, but don't count me all in.

Speaking of texting. ;)

Why do some people talk to the phone so it can create an unintelligible text, and send it to you? You are then supposed to read it and reply to the text.

Why not cut out the middle steps and just talk to each other?

Gee Al F.

Do you mean like... actually TALK to someone? How old school!!!

What's next? beating on hollow logs? smoke signals? then I guess we'd "move ahead" to carrier pigeons for REALLY long distance communication!

Ever get the feeling that as a civilization, in our obsession to move forward... we've gotten our directions mixed up?

Hollow logs, smoke signals. Great! I knew someday I'd get to use that Morris Code I learned a long time ago. I'll get started brushing up on it.

Ha ha! What a bunch of crusty curmudgeons....my kinda guys!

We have rift sawn veneers on our basement cabinets and they look fine, I wouldn't trust them to hold in a high traffic area. I know this is an old thread, but I'm wondering if anyone could clue me in to what is "good solid cabinetry." I get the warping of solid wood etc... For those of us at the mercy of our contractors and retailers, what do we even ask for!?