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AngieDIY, rococogurl, breezy et all: faucet for Precis Cascade?

Posted by SparklingWater (My Page) on
Fri, May 17, 13 at 11:38

This is the sink I am purchasing for our remodel Blanco 519452:
Blanco Silgranite II Precis Cascade photo 441525_PRE_CASC_CD_WB_zps801822fd.jpg

I read many GW posts and Attic mag on how to select a faucet to minimize splash (key for me) and maximize function. Here's how I figure it with this Precis Cascade 18 1/8" by 23 3/4" sink:

Standard 24" counter top, minimum 3" CT surround all edges.

Here's my calculations (taken from AngieDIY's guidelines):

1. Front sink cabinet width is 3/4" so 18 1/8" width+6/8"=18 7/8" width from front sink base at a minimum to rear edge of sink.

2. Rear edge of sink from front sink base is 24"-18 7/8"=5 1/8" left for typical deck mount of faucet. Back splash 3/8" tile and 1/8" thin set=4/8". Thus minimal rear edge of sink will be 5 1/8"-4/8"=4 5/8" from typical back splash.

3. Adjustments due to CT: this puzzles me. I understand 3" surround of a sink is minimum needed to avoid risk of granite/marble cracking. A 24" deep counter top-6" (front and rear) is 18" sink width maximum (the Precis Cascade is 18 1/8"). If 3" of CT is dedicated to front, then 18 1/8" for sink width itself, that leaves 2 7/8" for the rear deck only. Obviously something not quite right here.

4. Precis Cascade's drain is center rear 4 3/4" from rear of sink. I'd like to hit the drain/GD or just in front of it to minimize splash. Given depth of deck at about 3" maximum, centering typical 1 3/8" faucet hole would place faucet 1 5/8" from rear edge of sink (2 8/8" -1 3/8" =1 5/8").

For water to hit in vicinity of drain or just in front, it's 4 6/8" drain to sink rear + 1 5/8" CT deck placement =6 3/8" reach to center of drain. That's a very short distance in faucet reach (smallest reach I've looked at is 7 1/2").

The Precis Cascade 519452 under-mount will mean 8 7/8" depth for the main sink (19 1/4"), with a sink connecting 3/4" raised lip, then 6 1/2" depth to smaller 7 1/2" sink length. Spout height selection strikes me as optimally in 8" range to minimize splash and should be a narrow (not splayed) spout head.

Height of faucet for transitional kitchen with 18" in adjacent cabinets and 24" over the sink cabinet proportion wise suggests a tight reach goose neck or 90 degree faucet. I'm thinking stainless, satin nickel or brushed finish due to close proximity to range on same side.

Would you check my numbers and weigh in on these faucets and offer comments on above and alternatives? I'm thinking tried and true good quality faucets: Blanco (due to same manufacturer as sink so tested), Hansgrohe, Grohe and possibly Kohler. Pull down/out, great magnet (like newer style of magnet within the neck to minimize hanging spout), water conservation minimum of 1.8 but I prefer 2.2 gpm, brass base, minimal plastics, reach 7.5 to 8" or so max due to rear mounting constraints, height 16" max, spout height in 8" range.

Thank you for reviewing my math. I've visited stores, touched, played with, discussed, checked reach, color (stainless or brushed). Hours spent, no firm decision, time is passing. I'm stuck on faucets for this Blanco Precis Cascade sink.

Blanco Alta in satin:more modern than desired but shown by Blanco with this sink- reach 8" spout height 6 1/8", faucet heigh 8 3/8" (limiting factor for me):

 photo 441486_ALTA_SS-640_zps9d54855b.jpg

Blanco Grace II: new Blanco model, haven't been able to see in person at dealers, traditional in style but 8 1/2" reach and 8 18" spout height (thinking splashing); height 16 1/8":

 photo 441495_GRAC_PD_SN_TD_zps7c092de9.jpg

BLANCO ACCLAIM™ with pullout spray-sleek, height of 14 5/8" (short for above sink cab at 24") and 7 1/2" but 12 3/4" spout height (definite splash):

 photo 440516_ACCL_ST_zpsa9895e0f.jpg

Hansgrohe Talis S HighArc Model : 83/4" reach, 8 7/8" spout height, 16 1/4" height. Nice choice, but concerned about splashing given sink depth.

 photo images_zpsa80f0edf.jpeg


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: AngieDIY, rococogurl, breezy et all: faucet for Precis Cascad

I understand 3" surround of a sink is minimum needed to avoid risk of granite/marble cracking. A 24" deep counter top... Obviously something not quite right here.

Most countertops are 25.5", which allows for 1.5" overhang in front.

Other than that, on first read, your math looks correct. I will try to go over it more carefully later.

The dimensions you gave for the sink -- are they the outside dimensions, including the flange of the sink? (And same question for the drain location.)


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RE: AngieDIY, rococogurl, breezy et all: faucet for Precis Cascad

Well, since you called me out, I feel the "requirement" that the water stream land in the sink drain to be nonsense based IME. I own two different silgranit sinks with the Hansgrohe Talis S High Arc pulldown at each.

Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos

My cleanup sink, the silgranit Precis super single, is 9.5" deep and is undermounted with 4cm marble. The water stream does not land in the drain. No splashing for me at all unless I turn an object horizontally under the stream while the water pressure is on high. That is operator error, not a sink-faucet ratio issue.

My prep sink is the silgranit Performa single bowl measuring 9" deep, undermounted and inset in my black walnut counter measuring a thickness of 5/8" at the sink. Because my faucet thankfully directs the water more frontwards than straight down, the water lands well forward of the drain on this small sink by about 2". Again, no splashing at all other than operator error.

I've mentioned this before, but I find splashing occurs more often when I have the spray head pulled out slightly and aimed at the GD when running it. To avoid splashing, I direct the water a couple of inches to one side or the other of the drain when the GD is engaged. When the water hits the GD flange directly, watch out!

Thinking back to my old kitchen with oddly-shaped Kohler cast iron sink and cheap Delta facuet that directed the water no where near the drain, I had no splashing in that setup either.


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RE: AngieDIY, rococogurl, breezy et all: faucet for Precis Cascad

Thanks to you both. Angie overall dimensions are 28 3/4" x 181/8" platform inside 27 1/2" by 15 3/4". Brb out with daughter.


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RE: AngieDIY, rococogurl, breezy et all: faucet for Precis Cascad

Okay, I looked up the sink on the Bianco website. The center of the drain is located 4.75 from the INSIDE edge of the bowl.

Here is my calculation for the overall install.
-I agree with your #1. However, you calculated (as you noted) the MINIMUM distance. This does not leave any room for mounting clips under the sink. You can indeed install it that way if you use a SinkSetter.
-I agree with your #2. However, if you leave room for clips as discussed above, you will have a bit less rear deckspace left. (The actual amount of countertop showing will be 1-1/8" larger than your calculation because of the part covering the sink flange.)
Let's say for now that you use a SinkSetter, and so you mount the sink with only 1/4" between the cabinet and the sink flange. Then I think the amount of rear deck showing would be 25.5 (CT size)-1.5(overhang)-3/4(cab thickness)-1/4(space to sink flange)-18.125 (sink size)-1/2"(backsplash)+1.125(countertop covering rear flange=5.5" of deckspace showing between rear of sink bowl and the BS.
-I addressed your #3 already -- the countertop will be 25.5"
-In your #4, you don't need to subtract off the 1-3/8", because the reach of a faucet is specified from the center of the mounting hole. Let's say, for the moment, that you choose to center the faucet in the rear deckspace that shows, and let's say you use a Sinksetter. From the calculation above, the amount of rear deckspace showing will be 5.5". The distance from the mounting hole to the drain hole will be 5.5/2+4.75=7.5"
Moreover, the drain is 3.5" in diameter, so the distance from the center of faucet mounting hole to front edge of drain will be something like 7.5+1.5 =9". (Of course, the water will not go straight down, but will probably come forward a bit.)

My conclusion is that you will be okay with just getting a faucet with a smallish reach, but you don't need to strive for the minimum possible to meet your goals.


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RE: AngieDIY, rococogurl, breezy et all: faucet for Precis Cascad

Oh, you all are just too good! I get it (can't believe I forgot CT width as 25.5"). I just finalized the sink order, as well as the Sink Setter PW104P, which had been my plan all along. Thanks for double checking the math with a great explanation, Angie_DIY. I hope this helps others in the same boat.

breezygirl, I owe you a lot of thanks for showing and explaining the details of your kitchen and for me, faucets choice. I've looked at quite a few faucets, and kept returning to the Hansgrohe Talis S. I appreciate your taking time to explain steps taken to avoid water splashing. Quite sure I will call in this faucet order tomorrow.

In the end, it paid off to go to kitchen and hardware centers and spend the time seeing and going over the faucets on differing occasions.

HVAC with MUA soon (:/) and electric. I am truly relieved to have the sink, sink setter and probable faucet choice made so as to be on hand for our fabricator when need be.

GW is the best. So helpful a site. Thanks.


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RE: AngieDIY, rococogurl, breezy et all: faucet for Precis Cascad

My suggestions are based on best practice and, of course, there must be variations to allow for sinks with different drain placements etc. Also, faucets may/may not splash due to variable factors including interior restrictors and water pressure.

For me, idea is to get a good sink/faucet match and accommodate your faucet needs. I work ONLY from spec sheets because there are variables. This is super important with faucets.

I also feel that a sink should be pulled as far forward in the cabinet as possible. I know the stone folks like to have a thicker neck in front but the farther front the more comfortable the sink will be as a rule. Less leaning in. Also, not all counters have an overhang. Some can be flush with face of cabinets. So the cabinet carcass depth is a key measurement to let you know how much space there will be in back.

Here's the sink spec sheet and my math. If GW is still blocking photobucket uploads, this post which would be easy to see will turn into a series.

 photo scan0001_zpsea6f60fa.jpg

* Drain center is 4-3/4" from the inside back. Add 1-3/8" to allow for the exterior back rim of the sink which faucet must clear. That comes to 6-1/8." (Outside sink rim is 2-5/8" wider overall than inside).

* With setback and variation in faucet stem thicknesses, I add 2-1/2" to 3" for faucet placement on the deck. That comes to 8-5/8" to 9" and suggests the optimum range for the faucet projection. But this can be adjusted on the deck and also depends on how far forward the 18-1/8" sink actually will sit on the cabinet frame. The leeway is something between 5 and 6 inches, which should be sufficient. I would verify this with the counter installer.

The Blanco Grace II seems to be the most compatible faucet to me. The projection is 8-1/2" and there is a slight tilt forward on the tip so I'd try to scooch it back maybe another half inch if possible but it looks good. It's a pull down and has dual spray which seems super for cleaning the side compartment. It appears (no indication on the spec sheet so I'd inquire) that the lever opens sideways as no back to front arc is shown -- avoids clearance issue if faucet sits close to back wall. It's a tall faucet with 8-1/8" from the spout to the sink deck. I'd verify that 8" is sufficient for working room white the faucet is docked. I'd also check the length of the hose (not given on this page).

Here is a link that might be useful: Blanco Faucets

This post was edited by rococogurl on Fri, May 17, 13 at 17:37


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RE: AngieDIY, rococogurl, breezy et all: faucet for Precis Cascad

Blanco Acclaim -- pretty faucet. 7-1/2" projection and the spout is straight down. So it would likely be easy to center. Even though it's shorter than the Grace II it has 4 more inches of working room between the spout and the deck. It is a pull out -- so the spout sits approximately under the wrist when you grab it to mvoe it around. Some people love pull outs. My preference is a pull down for this sink, especially with the sidecar -- otherwise to turn the spout forward to rinse down the sink you need to use 2 hands sometimes.

 photo scan0002_zps6cddf7e1.jpg

Hansgrohe Talis - Another beauty and popular here. 8-3/4" projection, which is in the zone. BUT the spout is angled forward and the water will be several inches forward of the projection. Good working space with 8" inches. Dual spray. Slightly less flow rate at 1.5 gpm than the other two which I believe are over 2 gpm.

 photo scan0003_zps85cafcd0.jpg

I couldn't look at the additional faucet as there are two which
look almost identical and one is a pull out and one is not. But this is probably tmi anyway.


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RE: AngieDIY, rococogurl, breezy et all: faucet for Precis Cascad

Thank you for your time, detailed explanations and writing on diagram and comments, rococogurl. The Blanco Grace II is new, and a very lovely faucet with proper specs and look for our new kitchen. I better understand an angled spout adding to projection of water and had not thought about such.

I will do further investigation into these two faucets. Typically I like to stay with a manufacturer when buying such a combo, as their field tests should match sinks to faucets. Not saying they do, but ideally they should.

I put a note into Blanco about the Grace II faucet with the new Precis Cascade sink. Let's see what Blanco has to offer in advise/answer.

Thank you for taking the time to help me, and I will do due diligence as much as feasible.


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RE: AngieDIY, rococogurl, breezy et all: faucet for Precis Cascad

I think you have a very smart approach sparkling. If you have time to share what Blanco replies I'd certainly be interested to hear their comments.


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RE: AngieDIY, rococogurl, breezy et all: faucet for Precis Cascad

I have a blanco cascade sink. I originally thought I wanted to land the stream as a drain bullseye but read splash occurs when the stream hits uneven surfaces such as the disposer flaps and to get junk to go into the disposer, mount so stream is forward of the drain.
My faucet is -8 inches center to center. Waterstone 5500.
I think I would have used the 5400 which is -11 inches. It would bring the faucet 2 inches further forward. We mounted ours center to the drain- so it lands in front of the drain
Bottom line-don't worry about landing in the drain

Cryptic from iPhone.


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RE: AngieDIY, rococogurl, breezy et all: faucet for Precis Cascad

Thanks for your information, a2gemini. Your kitchen is wonderfully done. I appreciate everyones advice that water landing in the drain is not essential, and perhaps not even desirable.


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