My GC thought that our Thomasville cabinets were a very good product overall. He had no problems installing them. The ONLY negative things he said about them were:

1) Your shelves are held up with plastic shelf pins. (He suggested that once we're sure we want them in certain places, he could come in and brace them a little better.) Be sure, though, to use ALL of the shelf pins and don't miss one or you could have a shelf fall down.

2) Your sides are not solid good wood, most are particle board. However, they are good wood and solid where they need to be.

We had two different KD's at Home Debit. Both said that the Thomasville was considered their "top of the line", American Wood Mark was their bottom of the line, and KraftMaid was "near top". But as someone said in another thread, that could be because of incentives that they were getting to sell TV vs KM.

Overall, I'm happy with our Thomasville. I've got photos of the open cabinetry on page 5 of the photo album I've linked below, if you'd like to see the insides.

DonnaR/CA

Here is a link that might be useful: Donna's kitchen from start to finish

We had Thomasville cabinets from Home Depot in our old house. We were very pleased and thought they gave great value. I'd buy them again in a second. Great advice about using all the plastic pins, though. We had a shelf fall in the middle of the night and scare the bejeezus out of us after a plumber took out and "replaced" one of the shelves when he was doing some work.

We just had out Thomasville installed a few weeks ago, and are quite happy with them. The plastic shelf pins that we got have a metal thing that runs through them. Is that the same ones you said broke on yours, jebtb?

We love our Kraftmaid but mainly picked it as I fell in love with our door style and didn't really look at anything else. I commented about the incentives. I never found HD or Lowes helpful and we bought ours through Just Cabinets as Washington Checkbooks rated them slightly cheaper.

I just looked and our pins are metal, but I can imagine you can't go buy metal ones vs. using the plastic ones if that is a concern.

I can say our KM is not junk and we are very happy with them. (I'm sure some people had bad luck and theirs are junk but that happens with any big mass producer with any product).

Get what you like and make sure to pay by credit card just to protect yourself in case you have a problem.

And, with KM, I would upgrade the sink base (in case water gets to it) to plywood sides as well as any cabinets with exposed sides but those not exposed (interior cabinets) go with the particle board - no one will know and we've had no problems. Our doors are solid wood (we drilled through them for the knobs).

I can't speak to Thomasville but I probably would have considered them too if I hadn't been so determined with this one door style.

What bothers me about Thomasville is that it is exclusive to Home Depot and KraftMaid can be purchased from other retailers. This is not to say that Thomasville is a bad product it only means that you will not be able to shop around for a better price. I also wonder who actually makes the Thomasville line. The fact that you can only purchase the line through HD causes me to believe that Thomasville licensed their name out. Maybe a different line from the same manufacturer would be just as good or better for less money beacuse you wouldn't me paying for the famous name. Just something to think about.

The KD we dealt with at HD told us that Kraftmaid were "better" based on her experience. She had fewer problems with Kraftmaid and when she did the company stood behind them. I think her opinion was strictly based on what she has seen in her particular store with her customers.

don't know thomasville, but happy with KM at our house. because ours are outlet specials, one cabinet was missing the shelf and shelf pins. we were able to choose from a wide selection of metal and plastic shelf pins in the hardware aisle of our local HD. this was a new display i am sure, because i looked for those little pins a few years ago and they didn't have them. they come in bags of 10 or so and they are pretty cheap. you could just replace the plastic with metal if you like thomasville...
the plastic pins are a problem though...we also had a shelf collapse, not in the kitchen, but on a different piece of furniture. good luck kren

MasterBrand is the parent company of Thomasville. At Lowe's the same exact cabinets are sold under the Diamond brand.

I do not know anything about Thomasville, but we do have KraftMaid Cabinets. We purchased them in the summer 2006 through a local cabinet shop, not through a big box retailer. We did upgrade to all plywood construction and the pins are metal, except the clip pins on the shelves in the tall cabinets - those are plastic. We are happy with the construction, the finish and the look. Overall the quality of ours is good and I consider myself fairly picky about the details.

You will read complaints about the quality of KraftMaid cabinets (construction, finish, service) from others on this forum though. After following these KraftMaid quality discussions on the board for quite a while, DH and I can't help but think that there may be a different spec for the mass production of cabinets for the big box retailers at Kraftmaid than for their other independent distributors. Or that the sheer volume of production required for the big box orders causes the factory to go too fast and "short" the quality control on those production runs. It sure seems that the people with major complaints about KraftMaid on this board, purchased them through a big box retailer. OTOH, it could be just the percentages of problems are the same but the numbers sold through big box stores are so much bigger, that the number of complaints heard from that segment of the market are larger.

I'm not sure this helps!! Just what I've been thinking. We like our KraftMaid cabinets very much. -Kim

RE: "After following these KraftMaid quality discussions on the board for quite a while, DH and I can't help but think that there may be a different spec for the mass production of cabinets for the big box retailers at Kraftmaid than for their other independent distributors. Or that the sheer volume of production required for the big box orders causes the factory to go too fast and "short" the quality control on those production runs. It sure seems that the people with major complaints about KraftMaid on this board, purchased them through a big box retailer."

Several years ago I met an executive from a company that made stuff you'd buy at hardware or big-box stores. He said that he couldn't do business with the big-box guys because (this is an exact quote) 'they won't let you earn a profit'. He wouldnÂt do business with them because they wanted him to cut the price; he said the only way to do that and still make a profit was by cutting the quality. His company was founded on quality, so he wouldnÂt do it.

If the supplier/manufacturer wants access to the big distribution company, they must have a way to manufacture their products for less, or ship 'junk'. Take a close look at the quality of ceramic bath fixtures sold at the big-box stores. High-end manufacturers selling top-of-the-line designs for a big discount? Why would they do that? They do it because they can unload the stuff that comes out of the mold incorrectly. A lot of it has flaws, some only Âcosmetic (e.g. the front of a sink that has a bulge) and some actually functional (e.g. a toilet that doesnÂt sit correctly on the floor). Many of these problems are subtle, so you donÂt notice until the thing is installed. YouÂre a ÂDIYSÂer, so you think you did something wrong when it starts to leak. Or youÂre so sick of the project you live with the Âwavy sink because you canÂt bear to reinstall a good one. If you look carefully, you can see the poor quality in floor models on display at some stores!!!! So, in this sense, at least for some products at the big box stores, you get what you pay for. Be really careful to inspect before you install, and be ready to spend lots of time and energy complaining like crazy to get the quality you expect from the name brand company. At some point, it makes sense to spend an extra % to get shipment from a small distributor whose existence depends on having a stellar reputation in their market area. IÂm not in the business, but IÂve had/seen/heard about lots of REALLY frustrating experiences. I'm thinking I'll get my new cabinets from the local lumber guy rather than the HD or Lowes in my town.

The Thomasvilles were bought 2011, and the KraftMaids were bought 2003. I should have asked more questions instead of assuming that the 2011 edges would be veneered like the 2003 ones had been veneered. The 2011 edges either were painted -- in the case of two of the wall cabinets -- or left raw on the base cabinet. To make things even worse, instead of the toe-kick board capping the ends on the base cabinet, it was set into the ends, leaving the ends' raw edges exposed. What KraftMaids are like now, I can't say, but I can say that I'm disappointed with the Thomasvilles.
Now to Home Depot: Please do not take your Home Depot Kichen Designer's word that what you want is what got ordered. Because the Thomasvilles would be going in a bathroom, we asked for and were assured that we would be getting all-plywood construction. One piece out of 5 had plywood ends. Everything else, including the base, had "Furniture Board" ends and backs, the Thomasville term for chipboard. Because the contractor would be arriving soon and because of the complications of making a return and reordering, oil-based urethane on raw surfaces has been the solution. When you order from Home Depot and if you want all plywood construction, there will be separate lines on your HD Special Services Customer Invoice with "PLYWOOD" spelled out. If those "PLYWOOD" entries are not there, you're getting the default "Furniture Board"/chipboard unless you get the misorder corrected.

We just had our Thomasville cabinets installed today. Our cabinets are maple, with solid maple, raised panel doors. We chose Thomasville over KM because TV had some features that KM did not offer. We wanted solid wood full overlay doors, all plywood boxes, quiet close doors, and heavy duty drawer glides. Some of these things were upgrades. We liked that we had many options to customize, so we got exactly what we wanted. I am happy with them so far. Ask me again in a few months when I have had a chance to use them for a while.

Our cabinet have labels on them that say they were made in Arthur, IL

We put a KM vanity from HD in our bathroom a couple of years ago. The doors are slab maple. I don't remember making a solid vs. veneer decision, but I just looked at them and they look solid to me. The vanity isn't used as heavily as a frequently used kitchen cabinet, but we're happy. They look nice and function well. We have soft close doors and drawers. We went with KM because the designer at HD said KM was the top of their line and I think she said Thomasville came in second.

Do not buy Kraftmaid, we did and I regret it. They shipped each cabinet and all doors separately. Colors didn't match and installing and adjusting all the doors is time consuming. They offered a few measly bucks for our "troubles" and cabinets still look like crap. Haven't bought a Kraftmaid cabinet since and life is good!

Hi livlafluv84. Thanks for the useful post. Lots of great info.

What's your take on HD pushing TV over KM? Are there special incentives there? Our KD is steering us in that direction, and seems hesitant to layout/quote both manufacturers. Seems like good value, as they're offering the tiered discount plus an additional 15% off for TV. Is the difference in finish worth paying for with KM. We're going with white/gray simple shaker cabinets. What's your opinion on APC? Worth springing for, for all the cabinets?

I don't think there are incentives to sell one brand over another anymore... I believe all the associates are paid hourly but have sales goals. It good be just his/her preference... A colleague of my mind always sold one of the lower price brands as he wanted to give the client the best deal (least expensive option) to ensure the sale vs quoting the higher priced brands in fear that the customer might fixate on the higher price and not buy at all. Or if youve given a budget, he/she may know that KM is going to be more expensive and they don't want to lose the sale.

If TV is having promos, KM should, too, plus the tiered discount. In my opinion, yes it is worth paying the difference, esp. for the painted finish. KM has their Deveron shaker door, which is their lowest priced shaker full overlay door. You can price it both maple wood and their new evercore material which is not solid wood, but a MDF door and thus less expensive but w/ all the standard features of KM.

Five yrs ago, I would have insisted on APC, but w/ Euro brands and IKEA not being APC, I'm convinced this doesn't make or break your cabinets once installed properly. For the sink base, both KM and TV offer cabinets w/ a liner at the bottom in case of leaks. KM takes it a step further and the sides of their sink base cabinet is made of a different material (can't think of the name)... Core guard or something, so I'd do this for the sink cabinet. For any exposed sides of your cabinets, I'd do a flush plywood end in both lines...this flushes the sides of the faceframe with the side of the cabinet box. Standard construction for the other cabinets are fine.

If you're not in a rush to order your cabinets, order a sample door from each line in your finish and then you can decide which you prefer. I just found that I prefer the sheen of the KM paint, which also seems thicker if that makes any sense vs the more flat paint of TV. Also go on both websites and compare their specs.

Again, these are my opinions.... There is nothing flat out wrong w/ TV, ESP if budget is the driving force.

TV(Diamond, Schrock, Kemper, all the same) has better paint, IMHO. Shiny paint is old school, and a dated look today when consumers are demanding almost dead flat matte surfaces in everything. It's not any more difficult to clean, and is just as durable. Plus, TV has more upgrades and specialty items available. The factory only charges 5% for an APC upgrade, or, at least to dealers they only charge 5%. Box stores tend to tack on 20%. They introduced no charge extended stiles and custom depths, and a whole host of NC customizations. Don't know if the box stores got that package or not, but again, dealers did. Deals often offer a better deal on the front end, with no ''rebate'' flim flam, and with more experienced designers as well. That's the biggest variable at a box store, and it's a complete crapshoot as to whom you get to work with. Some are great. Some just completed the silly online TV training and don't have a clue as to how to even properly begin a design in 2020.

I prefer "old school."

We chose Kraftmaid through Lowes and are very happy with them so far.

Thomasville cabinetry,Studio 1904,and Martha Stewart living cabinetry are made by Masterbrand (parent company) - Thomasville cabinetry is the main line,studio 1904 is the economically price pointed line with 13 of their most popular door styles....studio 1904 is excellent quality just like the main thomasville cabinetry line,the ONLY reason why studio 1904 by thimasville cabinetry is priced in a lower price range,is because studio 1904 does not have every cabinetry color option,cabinetry sizes, or additional specialty cabinetry. That being said- kraftmaid and Thomasville are like Pepsi and coke! They are competitors, they both have excellent quality and customization options. They are both quality cabinetry...they differences are that kraftmaid is sold more places, and a well known cabinetry name, where as thomasville cabinetry is newer yo the game and only sold at home depot. Thomasville also has solid wood backing on wall cabinets rather than the thin panel veneer in the back like kraftmaid,.....thomasvilles solid panel door is NOT veneer! Just for future refrence. The solid wood back on the wall cabinets may or may not mean anything for cabinetry buyers,but for informations sake I will tell you the benifit of it incase they suit your lifesetyle, Thomasville solid back wall cabinetry will be a pain for installers because they are square which means your cabinets won't come out of square and your doors will never go "arye"/crooked a few months or years down the road from the cab boxes being out of square. They also have a higher weight load ,lifetime warranty etc. No bias just facts

Hi livlafluv,

I am trying to choose between Decora and Kraftmaid. Do you have an opinion as to which is the
better quality? You also referred to higher-end cabinet lines in your
post. Which are the best cabinet lines?

Beth

I recently purchased Kraftmaid through Lowes. Excellent customer service from both Lowes and Kraftmaid. Had one minor hairline crack and they immediately sent out a new door. Had an oven shelf slightly damaged in shipping (entirely repairable) and they immediately sent a new one. All cabinets came as ordered and were carefully packed. I chose Kraftmaid over others because I like the slightly deeper upper drawer and the options available.

Homedepot told me that Thomasville is the same as Diamond (Lowes brand) which has terrible reviews. I was told KM is a better cabinet.

We had some KM cabinets installed about six months ago and they've been great. White paint over maple, iirc.

Empty your kitchen is beautiful. Glad you had a good experience with Kraftmaid My experience has been awful. I haven't had a kitchen since April 22 due to KraftMaid's inability to send me drawers, refrigerator panel, doors, millwork and end panels with an acceptable painted finish. I ordered through Lowe's. I just received 17 replacement pieces-40% of the replacements have to be replaced again. I am now working through Lowe's executive customer service to resolve issues. The paint finishes have dents, bubbles, dings, cracking at seams, millwork marks. Their quality control is non existent. This has caused me thousands over budget.

Perhaps expectations of a high end product would be best met with an actual high end product, not a mid grade product from a box store. Discernment of the last 5% of details that costs that 95% extra for a better product is poorly matched with the 5% budget.

You are such a nice person Sophie. in your mind the middle class doesn't deserve better

Roflmao.

Joshuasamah Wow! That's all I have to say after reading several comments aimed at you. Anyway I just received my KM order and am also quite upset at the quality control of the items they have sent me (not to mention most of them also seem dirty with smudges and stuff that can be wiped off). We have had a cracked cabinet face, numerous doors with finish issues/bad quality, items sent in the wrong glaze and my biggest issue is that the cabinet face paint does not match the door. This issue is biggest for my large cove (curved) hood. I was in tears the other day. We ordered Dove White with Cocoa glaze - love the color of the door because I didn't want anything too creamy. Had the KM rep and the HD Customer order specialist at my house Thursday after we installed more of the kitchen. Apparently the KM rep says that only the doors and trim where there are grooves get the glaze. The doors appear to be an offwhite/ivory with a chocolate color glaze in the grooves. The cabinet faces are mixed, some are bright white and some are more like the color of the door. The rep told us the ones the color of the door are wrong and they should all be bright white - which is ridiculous. He actually wants to replace the boxes that aren't bright white (and we would prefer the opposite). At least he hasn't given me a hard time about replacing other items/doors. This leads me to the hood, the large curved area on three sides where there isn't trim is bright white while the lower area where the trim is looks just like I thought it should like the door, off white/ivory. We also have this issue with a tall end panel with extended stile ordered for the side of the refrigerator, it is bright white. The other doors adjacent butt against it and are off white/ivory so the contrast is very noticeable. Also problematic on wall oven cabinet where you don't really have doors covering parts of it. I'm not sure what they are going to do, but when I was in the store the other day reviewing the colors of the sample kitchen installed in-store they got the store manager involved and he agreed that there should not be such a contrast. I was so upset I told them that if Kraftmaid can't work this out I'm ready to rip the kitchen out and go with a different color that isn't so noticeably different from one area of cabinet to another! What I want them to do is to make all areas look the color of the door. They try to tell me that the flat surfaces don't take the glaze, which is BS because if that's the case then my tall utility cabinet with a 5ft door and an inner flat raised panel of about 4ftx1ft wouldn't have taken the glaze so well. The worst part is I thought I had done a lot of research trying to decide on which cabinet manufacturer to use. Didn't originally plan on using Kraftmaid but then when we decided on a private installer contractor rather than a Kitchen company and the cabinets they used, so we opted to go for the Kraftmaid estimate I had gotten (after I read how good of a cabinet they made, and a good friend of mine had installed them last year, and my parents have had them for 18 years- and they have utilized the lifetime warranty recently). I had also gotten estimates from other semi-custom lines and custom. This was by no means a cheap option at 51k for cabinets and I am very disappointed. I knew they weren't custom but definitely didn't think I would encounter issues this bad. I don't know how they can afford to keep sending customers replacement items for bad quality control leaving their warehouses.

KM doesn't glaze the sides or the frame. It's right there in the spec book. You received exactly what is in writing that they promise to send. This is your cabinet seller's failing for not discussing it properly with you, and then having you sign in acknowledgement. The remedy at this point is applied doors to the exposed cabinet sides, which should have been ordered in the first place, at your expense. A better remedy is to ditch the glazing as the rep is suggesting. It's always a problem because people don't have the correct expectations for it to vary by quite a bit. And it's horribly dated.

Maavernon, I feel for you. I am still working through Lowe's to resolve the issues. Kraftmaid quality control on finishes is non-existent. I hope you are able to get this taken care of quickly and enjoy your new kitchen. I found working with Lowe' executive customer service much easier than Kraftmaid.

Ps. Nothing is outdated if you love it.

Emptym your kitchen is beautiful! What is the countertop?

Sophie- first of all the rep never suggested I ditch the glaze. Second, I did order replacement doors for all end panels where it was possible. My issue comes in where it is not possible to place a door or trim kit on end panel, and some areas where you can get an overlay it still isn't glazed. My friend has these cabinets with the same glaze on a different color and she does not have any of the issues that my cabinets have, they all appear to be the same color, no matter which part they are. So yes my expectations are high. Third KM has acknowledged that certain areas would look better/should be glazed and are considering sending someone to adjust the color. Fourth you are such a see you next Tuesday for how you respond to people. I'm pretty sure most do not appreciate your down right rude comments. You make antagonizing comments rather than give advice.

I thought I'd throw in my experience with KM after just finishing my kitchen remodel. For the most part, I would not recommend them. I bought mine through Lowes - I purchased Dove White painted finish over maple - basic shaker style. I payed extra for furniture ends for the sides of the cabinets that were seen.

There were several areas that were disappointing to me. The first was the finish - it is very inconsistent. The fronts of the doors are smooth, yet the sides of the doors are rough. Second, the finished sides and panels I received are not a true painted finish. They are a white foil veneer that sort of match in color to the Dove White. When I asked my Lowe's designer about the sides during the planning process - he said the sides matched the doors. This is not true. Apparently this foil finish side is standard for KM. The refrigerator panel especially has foil sides and a weird plastic laminate over the front 3/4" edge. The painted finish is easy to clean - the foil finish has a different texture and I hope over time won't stain and will be easy to clean and won't start to peel off. I am extremely disappointed at this misinformation. I didn't want to spend the extra money for end panels and would have been happy with basic painted sides finished the same as the cabinet fronts and doors. I could have paid significantly less at Ikea if I wanted a foil finish cabinet.

I am very surprised that a cabinet manufacturer would not use the same painted finish on the panel as they use on the doors. It is a very cheap cop out to me. The third issue I have is that I had a few cabinets needed to be reordered because of manufacturing issues or they were fabricated to the wrong size. I though they would have given priority to existing customers, but I still had to wait 3-4 weeks for them to be remade and delivered which held up my project. Overall I wish that I had chosen another manufacturer due to these issues.

As an update to my situation, Kraftmaid is willing to offer us several options to remedy our situation. We are still negotiating the final resolution. The Kraftmaid rep seems to be fighting for us and to make us happy, so crossing our fingers that it all works out satisfactorily.

maavernon, would you mind sharing what the outcome was? I was considering KM, til I got to this thread....

Beth09 kraftmaid is replacing our entire kitchen. They are taking back everything that was ordered in dove white with cocoa glaze and reordering canvas with cocoa glaze. I saw my friends kitchen in that canvas glaze color and everything looked to be the same color. So while I'm happy with their resolution we are waiting another 4 weeks for new cabinets ( on top of the hold time of a month to figure it out). Bottom line just don't order dove white w/ cocoa glaze.

Thanks so much for letting me (and others) know what happened. I really, really hope all is well with the next order!

I had Thomasville cabinetry installed in my laundry room and I could not believe how cheap and useless the tabs were for shelves inside cabinet. The doors have to be removed in order to slide shelves in. This is absolutely ridiculous as shelving heights can change, depending on products and items that you store. I called Home Depot where they were purchased and salesperson agreed that you alway had to remove doors when changing shelving heights. Very frustrating impractical.

Beth, I've had KM from Home Depot for 5+ years and had a wonderful experience with the company and my cabinets are still in excellent shape.

TV is just a name that HD aquired from the real Thomasville furniture Co in order to create a backing for that brand. It is supposed to be their higher end cabinetry, but in all reality they are almost the same. KM is fine more midline. I would focus on Construction and your budget.

Thomasville is produced by Masterbrand, and is the same cabinets as Diamond, Kemper, and Schrock. They come out of the same factory, and just get different labels. They are all a good semi custom cabinet choice, and I prefer them above KM because of their finishes, better packaging, and more responsive customer service. To say that one is "above" the other would be incorrect. They occupy virtually the same niche as both are mid grade semi custom cabinets. Dealers usually have more experience and do a better job designing in them than a box store.

Both have "junior" lines that have fewer choices and lesser specs. This is important to know, because you could be comparing a junior line quote to a full semi custom line quote, and be talking different levels of quality without realizing it.

livlafluv84

It's been a few years since you wrote:

KM just released a painted evercore slab door that is not susceptible to
contracting and expanding and is less expensive than doing a maple
painted slab door. I'll be using this in a white painted finish w/
Cherry Husk slab door base cabinets, and I'm leaning toward the veneered
slab.

I am debating using the Evercore vs maple for my painted bath vanity.

How is your Evercore holding up after 3 years?

Thanks!

I love the look of my Thomasville cabinetry in my laundry room. My complaint originally was that the doors had to be removed in order to change the height of shelves; hopefully they corrected this. I have custom wood ones in my kitchen but I have to say, the Thomasvile ones are far more durable as my custom ones have chipped.

I appreciate the long rant! LOL

Thank you for sharing your experience and product knowledge. I am working with Home Depot for my kitchen remodel. The HD kitchen designer claimed TV being the most expensive. I mentioned I didn't want top of the line but not the lease expensive. She said KM is middle of the road. I found all of your tips extremely helpful. I will be showing up with my notes. LOL

Thank you again. Congrats on your home purchase! I'm a realtor with nearly 28 years experience in Oregon. How's your kitchen coming along?

Do NOT use Home Depot or Thomasville. Home Depot forgot my toekick drawers despite being asked if she included them 5 different times. She said they were ordered. When my cabinets came in there were no drawers. I immediately went back to HD and the same designer lied and said my cabinets were too heavy for the drawers- i had pictures ftom the website with my ordered configuration. 2nd problem is Thomasville - they have shipped defective product 4 times now. Their shipper lost 1 shipment for a week and today they never showed up with the 4th attempt to give me usable cabinets. Even with a specialist agent from Thomasville I can't get this resolved. I ordered the cabinets 8 months ago. I could have special ordered cabinets for the same amount of money and had my kitchen back together by now. RUN to anyone else although I've been told Lowe's is even worse.

Carole I love your laundry room cabinets from TV. What’s the name of your cabinet door style?