What's the sill height of the nook windows? Are they high enough so that you can put the island up against them?

How about the pony wall to the family room?

If it's all high enough, could you put counters all around the perimeter, with a shallow bar at the pony wall?

The nook windows are not high enough (yet). So we will have to replace the center one with smaller higher window to acommodate. This seems to work with nice seating near window, but more input would be great.

We thought of putting cabinets on pony wall. Other with our model have done this. It give great storage, but justs makes the whole space seem more cramped and not open like we are hoping for.

I will try to post some pictures soon.

We really like the idea of island to get people to hang in kitchen, but not right where sink and fridge are. Now at party people crowd the peninsula.

Thanks for the input,
Victor

Having the new peninsula terminate against the middle window of the nook just bothers me for some reason...

Rather than 4 stools, how about turning the nook into a big window seat?

A nice built-in settee would be cool and functional, and probably the most efficient use of the space around the new island.

I'm not really sure what you will gain by having an "island". I don't really think it works in your situation and what you're proposing isn't really an island. It's more of a peninsula. If you are looking for your kitchen to be "more open", I agree with rob, why not put some built in banquette seating into the bay area and that would move the table out of the center of the room. I think that would help provide the roominess you are looking for.

I had almost the exact same layout -- so much that I was wondering if we were in the same tract! until I saw differences (you have smaller door to DR where my pantry is, my LR/FR isn't sunken, etc). I'm taking out the peninsula and putting an island into the kitchen. It's going to be 39" wide x 78" long (long side paralleling sink/window wall), with an overhang at the end further from the range. My kitchen is 14' x 10', which is very close to yours in size. I'm not doing too much with the half-octagon-shaped breakfast nook, although I always wondered how built in seating would look.

I am not one of the layout gurus on this forum, but am speaking only as one who's been planning to kill off that peninsula for 15 years. I don't like having to sail all the way around to get from the breakfast nook to the kitchen. To be perfectly honest, I don't see the benefit in substituting one peninsula for another -- you still have to sail around, and the odd triangles at the wall end of the peninsula will end up as wasted space.

Could you fit in an L shaped island with the long end paralleling the sink/window wall as the working end (put in your sink, range if you like that look, etc) and the shorter end pointing into the breakfast nook as the entertaining end (maybe at a bar height to keep things interesting)? Does that make sense?

Rob and malhgold,

Yes I was not sure, but when you sit there and try it does not seem so bad to have island (peninsula) at window. We will replace window and out shorter (higher one in) then you can look out while sitting? Still not 100% sold but I like it.

I have tried to get my wife to think about built in seating with storage at windows. Some others with our plan have done this. I guess the problem is that no one but family ever sits there. When entertaining they can never lure any one to that space.

At first we tried small island in middle of nook with seating on three sides, but this did not seem right either. KD suggested island go to window. We might revisit the small island idea, but it does seem to be floating out there.

One big problem getting rid of old peninsula solves is we can move dishwasher to where it was. The old location is hated by all who have this model.

bluekitobsessed, glad to know someone else is playing with idea. I really hope to make it work. I will have to layout and drawup the L shaped idea. I am trying to think of some countertop shape to put on Island to make it work. We like island because when entertaining people never sit a nook table. Not sure why. They just crowd small kitchen area. That said we like eating in there as family.

You can all see why I can to you for guidance. Just when I finally get her to go for kitchen, we are stuck at layout.

I will post some pictures now.

Thanks,
Victor

All: Here are some pictures of the current kitchen. I have some tape to show island cabinets and granite overhang. Also old table and chairs to show how islnd might fit in space with seating. White tape line would be straight counter work are side of island. I might just build an island out of 1x1's and cardboard and buy some cheap stools to see what works.

View of nook area from arched doorway. Contractor said we can open up this door way to be much bigger:

View from sunken family room over pony wall (I am standing on chair):

Sort of overhead view (standing on pony wall):

Overhead from other side (Standing on existing peninsula):

View from other side of kitchen:

Hope this (along with layout) helps you get some idea of existing space. Please help us figure out this island thing. Or throw out any other ideas. We have been thining about this kitchen for 5 years now. Contractor is here doing a bathroom and I hope to figure out kitchen before he goes off to anoter job and it is months before I can get him back.

Thank you so much,
Victor

How about something like this...

{{!gwi}}

You could make a bigger circle on the end or a fancy shape or round both ends for eating and put a wine/beverage fridge on the outside to attract your guests. A bilevel counter may also encourage guests to gather where they can "lean" and has the advantage of hiding the kitchen a bit from both the family room and dining room.

You could even put a prep sink in the island which you could use as a giant icebucket if need be.

I would also then switch your sink (with the DW) and stove. I know that would put the stove under the window but if code allows it you would have better food flow as well and access for cleanup for the few times you eat in the dining room would be better as well. If the current stove location is on an outside wall, you could add a window if you were to move the sink there.

I like this shape! Would there be enough room for 4 bar stools with backs? Specially with rounded part now facing near fridge door. Maybe a rounded rect on end near fridge and room for a chair at the other end would make seating for 4 work?

What is that angle? Could I get this with Kraftmaid cabinets? I will defiantly consider this.

Switching sink is interesting. I think I tried and wife vetoed. I will ask. I do agree with having more counter near that dining room doorway for cleanup etc.

This forum is awesome.

You have almost the same kitchen as my sister. Her doorway to the dining room is a little different and she put in corner windows. We have worked and worked to change her layout because of the same issue...Too many people trying to gather in her workspace, but she likes the dinette area for family meals. It's even better for fitting more people for a meal like Thanksgiving, since her dining room is smaller.

I will post for you several renderings of various things we tried, just in case something appeals to you or gives you a new idea. Some, I think, are a little weird, but we had to try. Our better ones were plans that required taking down the wall between the kitchen and dining room (not shown here), but we decided the dining room had to stay, as is. It's a very tough space to arrange differently. We finally decided that without moving walls and getting into something too major, and so as not to lose too much counter or storage space, sticking with the peninsula was best, but moving the sink to face the family room, hoping to keep visitors on the opposite side at the raised counter.

Best wishes.

Wow she does have very similar. We thought of some of these, but not others. There are 400+ home in our 80's community. I guess 1/4 are like ours. The only remodels we really like, functionally, are those that push out the back wall. We started there, but that was adding 30K+ to kitchen just for 8ft out! The dining room is at front of house and open to living room and front door, so getting rid of the wall between kitchen and dining room does not look that nice. One guy did it and put big island where that wall is, but you see it right when you come in front door.

We are hoping to not have to settle with the peninsula and table in nook, but we might get all the way back there.

With peninsula gone it make kitchen look like one big space. With it there it is just nice little kitchen and a cute little nook.

Do you think it is worth trying an interior designer or something (not sure of cost)? We have already given HD KD $100.

Keep the ideas coming; I know someone has solved this or can help keep me from stressing over it too much.

Thanks again!

loves2cook4six,

Did you do these renderings? Or a Pro? How much? What software is that?

Thx

Wow, that's a hard one. To re-state: the deepest part of the existing kitchen is about ten feet.

i think i would choose to kill off the wall ovens for a range and kill the peninsula completely. Perhaps complete part of the pony wall so that it contained two 30-36" wide x 12" deep full height storage cabinets.

I might play with doing a tall counterheight "table" that was counter that started on the pony wall and the arc'd out over a leg or two for a combination extra counter and table space.

You could use 30" deep counters in the main kitchen (at ref walls) to gain some storage room.

Tweaking Rhome's first rendering, I would look at making the angled bay into a box bay and wrapping the corner with cabinets. Take out the pony wall or extend counter over it and overhang the counter into the sunken room side. With the step down, you'd then have approximate bar height counter .

A box bay would make more efficient use of the space (there's several sq ft of lost floor space because the angles make it near unusable. And, I think it would 'feel' a lot bigger. And, depending on how the bay is currently roofed, it might not be all that expensive? (Assuming the bay comes up underneath the roof eave...)

LOL, I did mine in photoshop. I am sure you are asking rhome410 what software she used.

I must say I like the idea of 30" deep cabs for extra storage - how could I have forgotten that? - we have them and LOVE them.

It was rhome410, sorry. Wow lots of suggestions. Just wondering if some pro (other that HD KD) could help (cost?) or will that just add more confusion and time to process.

I like the input I am getting here. Lots to consider.

My wife asked about "Squaring" the bay, but I thought it would be big cost, like pushing out wall. I will try to draw something up to make sure I understand.

So 30" deep all around? Doesn't that make kitchen seem smaller? We are looking for storage though.

Not sure about taking out pony wall since it goes down to sunken family room. Or maybe I do not quite understand sugestion. I am mostly visual so I might need "Try" draw up some ideas and look on paper.

Loves246's idea is pretty close to what I was trying to articulate -- maybe extend it a little further into the kitchen itself, and feel free to play around with counter heights.

In my area Lowe's will do a design for free; HD will charge $100 for the design (rebated if you buy their cabinets). I opted for a highly recommended KD, which was pricier but worth it.

I understand that the cost of adding a few feet on to any room is almost never worth it -- no matter how sensible it looks on paper.

You know if you took out the pony wall you could put steps down into the family room and it would open up the whole area even more and make the family room more inviting for your guests who would then still feel part of the action.

My wife also sugessted steps there, but it makes island hard and now we are planning a small desk on the other side of wall for kids and homework, phone, etc.

Here are quick plans that show what I think ci_lantro is talking about. Am I right?

Nook with Bay flattened:

Nook with Bay Squared:

The roof is just overhang and does not seem much to change. The kitchen part of house is only one story (valted in nook).

Would this cost much. Seems like if you change an outside wall then you pay same as pushing out more? With island in nook we would have to change big window anyway, but that is not the same as changing wall.

Would this give us more to work with? The squared option might give room for different shape (T, L, etc?) island that would work and seat four?

How much is a "pricier" KD to just help with layout? I am willing to go that way if I thought I could get good ideas.

My software is Chief Architect. It is the pro version of Better Homes and Gardens design softwares (Home Designer, Interior Designer, etc.), which will do about the same for you, in terms of floor plans and 3D renderings. I've seen them available at Costco, on Amazon, and, I think, at places like Office Depot.

Below is the link to their listing of software. If you click on "Compare Products" from the list on the left side of the page, there is a chart so you can choose the best one for you.

Here is a link that might be useful: BH&G design software descriptions

Squared off like your second rendering, Victor.

And I was thinking of bringing base cabinets around the corner where the dishwasher is and along under the windows in the bay. (If you put cabinets there, I don't think you'll have to worry about matching any flooring since the cabs will cover up the new area. Then hook a peninsula onto the end of the new cabs right where the pony wall is.

You were discussing changing one window in the angled bay anyway so that's why I suggested boxing the bay.

Sounds like if you box it that you don't have to re-roof the bay. That's good. All that is left to figure out is the floor. If you have a slab, then you just have to dig out & pour more cement for the box. If you have a wood frame floor, then you just square up the cantilever.

If you're dealing with brick exterior, then it's a bit more of a problem. Vinyl or wood siding is easy to fill in the new.

I don't think it would be anywhere near as expensive as an addition would be.

So we would have cabinets along the pony wall with no island or peninsula. Would this leave room for eating for four (at table maybe). I will have KD draw this up so we can see it.

I still hope to fit island for entertaining, etc.

OK, while I was camping with kids over the weekend, my wife mocked up an island that she thought fit well into the kitchen nook when the existing peninsula is gone. She even bought some stools (hopefully we can return them) to test the setup.

We both think this works and fits out needs and desire. We are trying to live with it for a couple days and see what we think. It is a little hard since the doorway into area will be more open and the peninsula will be gone.

I like it so far, I wanted to get any input from the forum to see what might not work. I am not sure how much overhang you can have with granite. Any other problems?

Here are pictures and new Layout with some quick dimensions.

Four Stools look to fit with three on one side and one on angled edge:

Sortof overhead view:

Some other views:
Peninsula will be gone, builtin fridge, and more space at arched doorway.

Here is New Layout:
Does this work? Not perfect, but?

I would ditch the angled edge, and just square it off.
I don't think it's gaining you anything...
Especially once you stick the stool there, poking out into the space it leaves.
I'd rather square off the corner and slide the stool under the overhang.

But, since you've got the mock-up there, can you try pulling it away from the window 24" and cutting off the pointy end.
This would give you a 5' long island with 2 stools on the family room side and one at each end. Plus you'd still be gaining more cabinet space than you're losing by removing the peninsula.

Personally, I love the look of the rendering that rhome did that wraps the cabinetry around the nook. I love open kitchens and understand the desire of informal island eating. Those are the two motivators that are driving my kitchen design. Perhaps there is a way you could tweak the island in that layout to accomodate an overhang?

I will try the shorted island tonight. Funny we started with a short island but KD suggested the big on against window and wife went with it.

Would there be enough room for a stool with back on the window side? If so it would work. and help cut down overhang on other side.

If our kitchen was as big as the one rhome was designing for I would really consider cabinets at bay windows, but I think it would make ours seem smaller.