I am opening a bottle of wine. It's Friday. It's 5:50. I may drink the whole thing before my husband gets home.

I don't have any answers but from one small experience where I got burned by a siding installer I would say that the laws definately need to be changed. Probably a lot of different laws.

See if you can find a lawyer who will take your case on a contingency basis - then it won't cost you anything unless you win the case. You'll get an honest assessment of your chances - a lawyer won't take the case unless he thinks you've got a pretty good chance of winning.

Worst case you could still do small-claims court. Won't give you enough in return, but in my state you could at least get $5K back if you won.

Now the bad part is even if you go to court and win it doesn't necessarily mean you will see any of the money either. You can put liens on his house etc. and serve with a court order, but ...

weissman-

I was told by a lawyer today (that was very polite,professional, and helpful) that a contingency fee would not be the best way to go, becuase they would get 1/3 of whatever I potentially would win, therefore cutting my reno funds by 1/3. Can you sue for more than what it will cost to do the job?

Here is a link that might be useful: the thread I forgot to link to above...

Amberley,
Can I come over and bring a bottle of wine to share? Part of our saga is listed in the Just Things Started To Look Up.... post in the building a home forum.
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/build/msg0415482028493.html?8
Our plan is to sue our contractor once our house finally gets built. We don't have the time, energy or money to try and tackle it right now.
I'm sorry for your situation, good luck.

A reputable, professional contractor will carry liability insurance.
Many of the less-expensive, less-professional ones don't.

If the contractor you hired does not carry liability insurance (and if you don't know, he probably doesn't), then the odds are minimal that he even has the money to pay damages, assuming you win. So what's the point in suing?

If he does carry liability insurance, then you've still got an uphill battle -- but at least there's a chance you'll come out whole. Of course, then you're taking on the insurance company. (Would they settle quickly or pull out the legal war chest?)

Have you carefully read the provisions in your own homeowner's policy? There may be something in there that will help... (DON'T call and ask -- they'll count that as an unmerited claim. READ the policy first.)

sweeby-

I am fairly certain that he was insured. I know for a fact that he currently is. I need to call the Maryland Home Improvement Commission on Monday to double check. I know I can't involve my homeowners as the work was done without a permit (I know, I know, we know better now, but were were naive new homeowners then).

Have you contacted the Registrar of Contractors for your state? Ours here does keep a fund that can be tapped if a registered contractor fails in his duties. That would be my first move....

Amberley I'll give you both sides of it....I sued a contractor on a contingency basis several years ago. Actually "sue" is a generous word...the attorney wrote a letter discussing my options to the company and we received a check in a week. The attorney was a very good guy and instead of taking his percentage, he charged me an hourly rate instead (his idea not mine). So for around a grand I recieved $10,000 to fix the errors (flooring contractor).

I remember my last conversation with that flooring contractor..."We'd like to offer you a new carpet for the living room as an appology" My answer "why? Did you burn a hole in the one already there or just spill a bucket of blood?" Heh heh oh those were the days....

Fast forward...we own a contracting company and were sued for a LOT of money. It cost us $700,000 to defend the suit and we won, but did not recover the money spent for defence. Some states you can, some you can't and in some businesses, it's even harder.

I'd search a bit harder for an attorney after you head to the MHIC office and see what you find out. Part of their decision will be based on the value of making the lawsuit. I mean...if the guys worth nothing...there's no value in trying, for either you or the attorney.

lightlystarched-

We are in the process right now of filing a complaint with MHIC (Maryland Home Improvement Commission). At some point they will send someone out to the house from the county inspectors office to check on the complaint, determine if it is valid, and make a decision as to whether we have a claim with "the guaranty fund". The max we can get from this fund is $15k, and frm what I have been told, this is hard to do.

ehoops- read your thread. How awful!! If you are at all close you can sure share a bottle (or 2 or 3) of wine! We are in Baltimore.

Well, yes, a lawyer will take 1/3 off the top on a contingency suit, but if you lose you won't be out anything. The other way, you'll be out tens of thousands, even if you lose. I'm not an expert, but I believe that depending on the type of case, you can include legal fees in the amount you're suing for. In some cases you can also sue for punitive damages.

By the way, have you talked to the contractor? He might be just as happy to turn it over to his insurance than get involved in legal action or risk losing his license.

I have been warnedby an attorney-friend about how much the guy is worth. He just bought a brand new house in July- so hopefully we might be able to tap into that???? Also, one thing that could be in our favor is he works for my dad's company. He may not want to have his wages garnished and his job jeopardized (he has been there 15-20 years).

weissman-
I haven't talked to the contractor yet- I want to know exactly what I am looking at before I even give him a headsup as to what I am planning to do. The situation is also complicated by the fact that my Dad brings him his paycheck. As far as his license is concerned, I think that the MHIC determines that, not any suit that is brought against him.

igloo-

Sending a letter or two is a good idea, I just would be surprised if it would work (we aren't talking about this guy's pocket change). $700,000!!!!! Holy crap! How on earth did you survive that??? It makes me feel so petty...but it really does effect out lives pretty substantially.

You may be limited in your recourse against the contractor by the fact that you didn't pull any permits for the job as well as the considerable amount of time that has passed since competion of the project. If those two factors don't eliminate the possibility of a suit, then the best case scenario would involve several years of litigation at considerable up front expense from you. No attorney would take this case on a contingency basis unless they were very new or very hungry, and neither type will be ones that you'd want to handle it. If the contractor doesn't have insurance, then he'd be free to declare bankruptcy and move on to another business. If he does have insurance, then the company will fight longer, harder, and with deeper pockets than any individual can hope to have.

All in all, I think it's best to drink your wine tonight and then get on with the issues at hand by actually having a conversation with this contractor before you go any further with any speculation that isn't doing you any good and only getting your emotions revved up.

Amberley,
Unfortunately I'm in California but I'll raise a glass to both our situations and hope we all make it through and the other guys get what they deserve.

ehoops, Altho you are not now in the mood to pursue your problem legally, it is important to contact an attorney asap. Each state has a statute of limitations within which time legal action must be filed. The clock starts ticking, in most instances, when you knew or should have known there was a problem. It is important to protect your right to sue.
It shouldn't cost you anything to have a first meeting. To be safe, I'd suggest you contact two lawyers to make sure you are getting good advice.
Live wire oak- I respectfully disagree that a hungry lawyer couldn't or wouldn't do the job well. There are a lot of hungry lawyers out there and not due to lack of fine educations, experience, good minds and competent skills. My son is one of them. He has, on occasion, taken cases which were refused by others. He makes lemonade out of lemons. He is very dedicated if he takes a case. And, I'm proud to say he has brought five cases to the Illinois Supreme Court.
Re the wine- I'll bring the reds!

I'm a little reluctant to weigh in on this thread because I sue contractors for a living (my business card says "construction defect and other law"). I'm making general comments without advising any specific person in any state on any particular situation (how's that for a YMMV disclaimer?):
1. I must emphasize that litigation should be for people who do not have any alternative. The courts should be used by the guy whose uphill neighbor's backyard wiped out his whole house, not by the person whose contractor painted the widget dusk blue instead of slate blue. Being in a lawsuit can be a PITA. If you have another alternative -- work it out with the contractor (most contractors will repaint the widget when they know that the alternative is a lawsuit), swallow the loss, get $5K back in small claims, etc. -- do not sue.
2. I do take cases on contingency but unless it's about $50-100K (depending on lots of intangibles) it's not worth my while, particularly if I think the contractor will cross-complain (see comment #4).
3. You can view the contingency as a glass one-third empty, or two-thirds full: recovering 2/3 of what you should get is not as good as getting 100% but it's better than getting zero. Cases usually settle, and the odds of anyone getting 100% of what they want are very, very slim.
4. Every lawsuit has 2 sides, and many contractors (I used to, and still sometimes do, defend them) have their own horror stories about the excessively fussy/indecisive/etc. homeowner. If he thinks you owe him money, he will cross-complain (sue you back).
5. 80% of contractors are honest guys seeking a day's pay for a day's work (10% are the dregs of society, and 10% are too smart to be contractors, so they declare themselves developers). They want to make customers happy. They will try 2 or 3 or more times to repaint the widget. The remaining 20% create 80% of my work. Presume that your contractor is in the 80% and TRY, TRY, TRY to work with him. It is almost always better than the alternative (see comment #1).
6. Sometimes it is worth it to pay a lawyer for 5-10 hours' worth of time to write a strongly worded letter or two, before filing a case. Sometimes the strongly worded letter gets the contractor out to repaint the widget. Sometimes it doesn't.
7. If you have a complete abandonment of the job -- he took your deposit and ran off -- the state license board can help. In my state due to perpetual budget crises they don't act on much else. Your state may vary.
8. Attorneys approach cases vastly differently when there is insurance/no insurance.
Good luck!

Blue...my favorite line...

"10% are too smart to be contractors, so they declare themselves developers"

LMAO as a LONG time banker, and the wife of a "contractor" (oil and gas not houses) that killed me...it's perfectly true. Only add to that the "design builders" who are in the top 1% of that 10%).

I needed that chuckle today heh heh thank you!

Amberley I wanted to share both sides because, as Blue put it, there are sometimes two sides to the story. I know your story and don't believe that's the case, even if you did make a few mistakes (not permitting...bad girl) but on the other side, contractors in all fields often have customers who cause as many problems as clients have bad contractors :) How did we survive...we drank a lot :oP We just cut back on quality! And it was the company we own, verses our own pockets, which makes it somewhat easier, but rest assured, that money came out of our pockets, but worse yet, it came out of our employees pockets because it killed bonuses for a couple of years. Not being paid at all though, would have put us under to the tune of well...a lot more than we paid those attorneys.

THe stress of that suit (which given the size of our company, is actually relative to your issue as well) was tough. We only spent a year or so on it, but it was really a very hard year for DH and while I knew he'd survive it any way it came out, he took it hard. It's hard to know that if you lose something like this others suffer, so you just have to fight, but in your case, if you fight, you will lose in one way or another. You lose a few brain cells (as lynne points out) but it's still worth it sometimes. What's right is right, and sometimes you have to make that clear, even when it hurts!

I'd try for the letter first if you can manage that...it is a good way to start.

Amberley--I think the situation is greatly complicated by the the fact that this person works for your father. It would be entirely believable for him to claim, whether true or not, that he was in a bad situation because you are the boss's daughter, that he was under duress to do work he didn't really want to do, under pressure to bend the rules regarding permitting and the plbg venting issues, to say that he had fully informed you of the venting issues...

IOW's, I think it would be wise to give a lot of thought to and to be prepared for him to countersue. May be a road that you don't want to travel.

Amberley - I'm so sorry your going through this. If there are code violations in your electrical wiring, you have some very real safety concerns that must be addressed.

If talking to the contractor doesn't work, I hope you do find a lawyer that can help you.

In the meantime, please make sure to have at least one working smoke detector on each level of your house.

busymom- we have been told by our the owner of our electrician's company that we are in no immediate danger for the wiring. It is an over-time issue. He told me we do not need to worry about a fire in the very short term. We did have our box changed out to a larger one (and went from 100 to 200 amp service) with was the greater concern.
We do have all working smoke detectors that are hardwired with a battery backup.

ci_lantro- It does complicate the situation with this guy being an employee of my Dad's company. I am hoping that he wouldn't lie about the situation, because I am fairly certain he could lose his job (not my Dad's words or decision, but his boss). What could he actually countersue me for? We paid him what we said we would and have the cancelled checks and the contract to prove that.

igloo- I appreciate your persepcetive. I wouldn;t call myself a "problem" customer. I didn't make changes to the plan/materials at all, I was respectful and tolerent of the workers, and I did not become abrasive even when the project wasn't finished before my second son was born.

I agree about the letter. We are meeting with an attorney on Monday to discuss the possibilities. I don't want to contact this guy until I have a game plan and I know what I need to have in place.

live_wire_oak- I am not sure where we stand with the permit situation, but I do know that we are well within the time limits. The law says that we may file suit within 3 years of the discovery of the problem or when we should have discovered the problem. We knew from the getgo that we had shoddy workmanship issues (new walls not plumb, doors not level, crappy plastic trim, unlevel floor,etc.) We just chalked this up to "you get what you pay for".

We did not, however realize that we had major code issues (and major safety issues) until more recently. We had a contractor out last summer who told us that our electrial box was illegal (way overloaded). We had that fixed last month. Several weeks ago is when we discovered the problems with the venting when the tub wouldn't drain and we got sewer gas belching out of the shower drain.

I also don't feel like I am speculating at this point, as I have had a number of contractors out to assess the problem, and all are in agreement as to what needs to be done (which ain't cheap!). Also, since I have now spoken with 2 attorney friends and 2 other attorneys, I think I have an idea as to what scenarios are possible.

blue- thanks for leaving your thoughts.

1. As far as painting the widgets, I feel we are well past that and into much more serious territory. This isn't about how it "looks". If that were the only problem, I wouldn't consider pursuing this.
3. I agree that 2/3 is better than nothing. And I am aware that even if I win, actually getting hte money is a whole other bags of beans.
4. I don't think he could argue, truthfully that is, that I was a "problem" homeowner. And I can prove that I don't owe him any money, so hopefully he can't go that route either.
5. I truly don't think that this guy is in the 80%. When you say try to work with him, do you mean let him back in my house??? That scares me. Or do you mean try to reach an agreement out of court?
6.I agree about the letter, as I said above that this seems to be a logical first step. But I really don't want this guy back in my house....
7. He did not abandon the job, so I don't have that issue.
8. As I said in a previous post, I am double checking on the insurance on Monday. I am pretty sure he had it at that time.

Thanks again for your insight blue- you have a unique persepective on this that is very insightful.

ehoops- I ended up going through a bottle and a half! Went across the street and had a nice evening with my two attorney neighbors. Thankfully, no hangover this morning....

Oh Amberley...I do want to make sure I wasn't giving you the impression that "you" were a problem customer...I just wanted to share that perspective for anyone reading this thread...you always want to look at your actions when making a decision about going to court with anyone...just to see both sides of the story, because you want to be prepared just in case :)

I know your case, and actually felt it more personally...when I was pregnant with DS we had some quick remodeling done...a wall was built in our master bedroom to make a future walk in closet (15x10 was the goal). I had eclampsia and the baby was taken 7 weeks early. He was just a tiny guy (3lbs 15oz) and we both ended up staying at the hospital for a few weeks. While I was gone, the contractor at the time decided to move that wall a bit more over (15x12) so that he wouldn't have to move a heat register. This might have been easier on his part, but on my part...it means I have a wall in my master that tucks right up to a window with no gap on the wall side. I'll be able to disquise that with drapes, but it ticks me off every time I look at that stupid wall.

You know, one thing I did think about, and just wanted to ask if you'd considered....does this guy do what he did for you for your dad's company? I ask this because I wonder if there would be ramifications from the suit on your dad...ie his workers are shotty (and I know your job was) or if he's doing something entirely different at "work" so it won't matter? (I just don't remember if you've said what he does for dad).

Amberley, I don't know anything about your situation and I hope you weren't offended about the color of the widgets analogy. I was trying to leave a general post that reflects possible/typical issues (the PITA factor, the cross-complaint, etc) and the thinking of an atty in this field. From the little that I've seen, you may be well out of the repainting the widgets area; as I noted before, the legal system should help people who have no alternative (to use an analogy, the system will usually help someone who's been seriously injured, but for a fender-bender, it's hardly worth it). I don't want to give legal advice over the internet to someone in another state so my message may be too general for your specific situation. The one piece of good news I see here is that IF he had insurance, collecting on a judgment/settlement is relatively easy -- the insurance company pays.

Again, good luck!

And to another poster, some of us work on contingency for a lot of different reasons, not just because we are hungry or new. I've been practicing nearly 20 years, I'm picky about what I choose to take on, and I like to think that I'm very good at what I do (I'm paying for the kitchen remodel out of a large settlement). I like working for people, not institutions, and most of my clients are middle class homeowners who can't afford the hourly rate up front.

I have sued a contractor. Actually it was a swimming pool contractor and it was very difficult. He had a lot of money and brought a total of 18 lawyers to a scheduled mediation. Unfortunately we were jerked around for almost 2 years before his insurance companies (yes 2 different insurance companies) settled for much less than it cost to repair and some portions of our problem can never be resolved. A little info on what he did wrong --
1. Installed a pool that was 8 feet longer than contracted ( I know sounds great but really messed up the plan for the entire yard, the difference in a 20 x 40 pool and a 20 x 48 pool is alot of money to heat, fill, and maintain and takes it out of standard sized into commercial sizes for everything).
2. Totally destroyed all existing vegetation in our yard - even trees and plants located many feet from the pool. We had to have a tree service remove 3 large old oaks he killed because of his carelessness. Had the pool been the proper size and his construction crews not placed debris and spilled concrete around some areas they would have lived.
3. Pool had a leak under the pavement from day 1 - he claimed it was ground water.
4. Stamped, stained BOMANITE concrete surround was not done to industry standard, no control joints, sawcuts or rebar. Not consistent in thickness, stamping not complete, color totally inconsistent. We did find out in court discovery that neither the contractor or his employees had ever had any training from Bomanite, Bomanite was supposed to be the best in the industry and only use trained professionals with licensed materials etc. -- Total lie.

In short we spent 2 years and had to defend ourselves in a countersuit because we were holding back the 10% completion payment (he wouldn't complete the work) It cost us dearly in frustration and cash. We did recoup probably 20% but it will eventually cost us much more ( 3x what we recovered ). Part of our problem was that each of the insurance companies fought among themselves to see who owed who what. I think the only one happy in the end was the attorney. BTW, our contract guaranteed no leaks or mechanical problems for one year, he would have them repaired. We offered him the option to correct all these problems but he wouldn't, he said it would cost him too much money!

My advice, get an attorney to write a harsh letter, but if he doesn't have insurance or lots of cash, you may have a hard time collecting money and no amount of money can compensate for the frustration.

Amberely:

I didn't see any link in your original post, so I don't know all the facts. But to add to what blue has suggested, I too practice law (although not construction defect), and I'm in California so it might be different in Maryland (and I can't give legal advice for Maryland!), but here, if you have a written contract that mandates attorney fees, California makes it reciprocal (meaning if the contractor says I get attorney fees if you don't pay me, the homeowner will also get fees for a lawsuit even if the contract doesn't say that--it can't be one-sided) So you wouldn't have to worry about the attorney taking 1/3, the fees would be added to your damages. Also, I believe contractors have to post construction bonds to ensure their work gets finished--you can make a claim on the bond. When you next talk to your attorney, ask if those issues apply where you are. Every state is different.

Carla in Sac

Hi all-

We have been crazy running around coming up with a game plan as to how to solve this problem, hence my not posting a follow-up.

Thanks so much to all of you who offered advice. It was extremely helpful, as usual for the kitchens forum! We have retained an attorney, and are going to file a complaint with the MHIC (Maryland Home Improvement Commission). Once that is processed, the contractor will receive notice that his liscence is suspended until the hearing and judgement, which unfortunately won't be for 1-1 1/2 years. At that time, a judge will determine how much to award us from the Guaranty Fund (a max of 15k). He will also determine how much money is required in total to fix the problems, and will most likely hand down an "excess deficiency judgment" which we can then take to circuit court and at least attempt to collect the balance (if he refuses to pay).

The attorney that we found is well versed in these types of cases, and used to be a contractor, so he "speaks the language", and understood the code violations without needing a third party. He also has several contractors and home inspectors that he recommended to come out to give estimates as well.

As far as actually fixing the problem, we are going to get the home inspector's opinion on whether we need to address the issues (or some of the issues, especially electrical) now, or if we can wait until the trial. Because we will have to tear out the whole thing to fix it, it does open up some possibilities with the plumbing for the kitchen- which I am still hoping to continue with since we have to wait so long for a trial date.

Oh, one really annoying thing about this is that all the contractor has to do to get his liscence back is to pay back the $15k to the Guaranty Fund. That's it. Ridiculous.

Anyway, thanks again to all you great GWers- maybe now I can go back to being TKO and actually get my floor plan squared away!!

I'm a bit curious about this - you file a complaint and they automatically suspend his license for 1 1/2 years until the hearing. To be honest, that doesn't exactly sound fair to contractors. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty and what's to prevent someone from filing a spurious complaint against someone they don't like? It seems like they're depriving a contractor of his ability to earn a living for 1 1/2 years without due process - I can understand suspending his license AFTER the hearing.

Amberley - what I don't understand is why you feel bad about the guy maybe losing his job. Shouldn't he feel bad about doing a bad job for his boss' daughter? Anyway, his employment with your Dad and his work for you are really two separate issues. Whether they garnish his wages or not, it's ALL his problem, not yours.

weissman-

From what I understand, I file the complaint, they send out a housing inspector to look at the work to confirm that the complaint is valid, then they send the contractor notification of the complaint (by whom, for what, etc) and then they suspend his liscence until the hearing determines the outcome. In the meantime, based on the MHIC inspector, they could file criminal charges (I am not at all sure what this is based on, as I am not included in the process, or even notified of the outcome) based on the code violations that are present.

jill- I do not at all feel badly for this guy in any way. The only reason that I want him to keep his job, is that I know I will be able to get his wages garnished if I know where he is. I am also hoping that if he wants to keep his job, or at least have a good relationship with his superiors, he will agree to pay me whatever the judge rules on. I agree that his emplpyment at my Dad's company and the work that he did at my home are two separate issues. I just hate that my Dad is in a tough spot.

Hopefully the kitchen project will go much smoother...especially since we plan to do a lot DIY and GC the rest.

Amberley, I just got caught up on your situation. Sounds like things are at least moving in the right direction, that must be somewhat of a relief. Maybe now you can downsize from a bottle and a half to just one bottle of wine.
I joked with my friends and family, before we made the projected 9 month move into our trailer, that by the time it was all said and done they might have to commit me to the Funny Farm or AA. Thankfully, despite our nightmare build, 20 months in the trailer, and no end in sight- I haven't had to go to either. Although I will admit to drinking a bit more than I think I would have under normal circumstances, but who wouldn't. Anyway, best of luck and keep us posted.

weisman, what I find amazing is that the guy gets his license suspended (after the license bureau inspects the work) but then the contractor can get his license re-instated just by paying back the bureau the $15,000 they're out. So in the meantime, other homeowners are getting work done by this guy, even though the claim is at least validated by a third party inspector.

amberley - your most recent post makes a lot more sense - the fact that they send out an inspector who validates your claim and then they suspend his license - your original post made it sound like they would suspend his license just because you filed a complaint - this way makes a lot more sense.

I am wondering after all these many years, what happened??? I would love to hear an update. Hoping for only success. I would also love to hear if the consumers affairs helped or did you have to actually pursue a lawsuit. Tricky because you can't do both at the same time. Any update is much appreciated.