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sail_away

Granite Installed---Problem with Seam?

sail_away
10 years ago

Yesterday our Black Pearl granite was installed. The fabrication of the countertops is great---the inside and outside curves/corners are uniform and fit well, the sink installation is perfect. The one problem area is the seam.

I'm sorry I don't have a picture, but the only camera I have is on my aging flip phone, which takes terrible photos and, also, I don't know how to get a picture off of the phone anyway. The seam itself is nice and tight, not very wide. They used the Gorilla clamps on it and seemed to put a lot of work into the seam, but, in the end, it's clearly visible from across the room. The seam also feels a little rougher than I think it should.

One of the reasons I'm so disappointed is that the main reason we chose to buy from these guys is because of the great seams in the various granite countertops in their showroom. None of the seams there looked like ours.

We have Black Pearl granite, which I thought would be easier to disguise the seam since it's dark and doesn't have a lot of movement to match up. They did use a color-matched substance in the seam, but there is a very visible gray line the length of the seam. Unfortunately, it's in a very obvious location, too.

I wonder if the reason for the problem seam is the fact that the piece was a bit too long so the guy took it outside and ground off the edge so it would fit. Maybe the two pieces, as fabricated in the shop, would have fit together better and been more smooth? If that's the case, I would have gladly waited another week or two for the final piece if they had taken it back to the shop and gotten it smoothed out so it fit better.

Because it's a tight seam, I'm not sure if I should pursue this further, yet I'm not happy with being able to see it from across the room. We asked the installer if there was anything else he could do, and he said that was it---he did say to call the shop if we wanted to.

Based on my description (sorry again that there are no pictures), do you think there's anything else that can be done to, first, disguise the seam so it's not so visible and, second, smooth it out a little more?

Comments (56)

  • jerzeegirl
    10 years ago

    I wonder if they can apply some enhancer or Tenax Ager to the seam to make it darker? Is your granite polished or honed?

  • PRO
    Salmon Falls Cabinetry
    10 years ago

    If it is a nice clean install, I would really wonder if they tried to field dress that seam. It's a big no no. They usually cut the part where the backsplash is. If it took them a few minutes or so, then that is what I would hazard to guess they did. If you saw them clamping a board to the granite, it's 50/50 they field dressed the seam. It really is unlikely they did. I would tend to go towards the wrong color epoxy or something was up with the edge in the first place. Dark usually shows most flaws more than say white for example.

  • sail_away
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I don't know exactly what ''field dress'' means. The seam is on the short end of an L-shaped counter. The smaller piece is seamed with the larger piece of granite on the right, and on the left it butts up against wooden cabinetry that extends from floor to ceiling. Thus, it is important that the left side remain scribed closely to the cabinet, since there will be no backsplash there---there is just a bead of clear silicone where the cabinet wall meets the countertop. That is why I think that they may have taken it off the seam side rather than the side butting up against the cabinet. I also don't think they would (or did) take it off the edge bordering the cabinet because that would have affected the finished edge that extends beyond the countertop at that end. It is still perfectly smooth and polished, and the portion of that edge that butts up to the cabinet seems very straight. (The full length cabinet is actually a surround that encloses our refrigerator, with a full-depth cabinet above.)

    I hope I'm explaining this clearly.

  • sail_away
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Jerzeegirl, The granite is polished. Would an enhancer or the Tenex Ager work if a sealant has already been applied? For that matter, if they try to do something with the seam, will it affect the sealant that was applied? I sure don't want to make a bad situation worse.

  • jerzeegirl
    10 years ago

    Ager is a sealer too, so I don't know how it would react on another sealer. It might not be feasible.

    The best solution might be to have them remove the top part of the epoxy seam and replace it with a darker color epoxy . They wouldn't have to remove the whole seam - just enough to add the new color epoxy on top of the old one.

    I know that some people have used Sharpies to darken a seam but that just seems so wrong to me.

  • sail_away
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I didn't realize they could remove part of the epoxy. That does sound like the most feasible suggestion so far. I'm not going to try anything myself until I've spoken with them and see what they can/will do to try to fix this.

  • suzanne_sl
    10 years ago

    As to roughness: I recall that when we were signing our contract, there was an optional upcharge (smallish amount) to make seams super smooth if necessary. We ended up with no seams, so it didn't apply, but I remember the description. He said that occasionally the two ends of granite don't come together perfectly, so they can sand (?) the meeting place until it's perfect and then seal where they'd been sanding. With any luck, that all that's needed.

  • jerzeegirl
    10 years ago

    I just had a thought. When epoxy is mixed for a granite seam, the installer mixes colorants to get just the right color that matches the granite. I wonder if the installer can mix up a batch of black colorant and apply it to the seam and recolor it (without have to add more epoxy). That would be the simplest solution if they can do it.

    But seriously, the best thing to do would be to call the granite people and be honest - tell them you want the seam darkened because it sticks out like a sore thumb. There's a way to do it - let them figure out how.

  • sail_away
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Yes, I'm thinking it's worth calling about. DH is out of town right now, but I'll talk with him when he gets back, then call them. I want to ask him what he observed while they were installing the granite. I have bad asthma, and when they started mixing the epoxy with the colorant I had to leave the room, so I didn't see everything they were doing.

    Based on how good the fabrication and installation (except for one seam) was, I'm hopeful they will be willing and able to improve what we have now.

  • Vertise
    10 years ago

    Unpolished stone is lighter. I wonder if the gray line you are seeing is that, where the epoxy doesn't quite make it to the top or if it is clear. I would think they would have sanded that edge very smooth after grinding.

    I know what you mean about trying to be so careful about things, like taking note of the seams in the store for good craftsmanship. I think you should bring that up and let them know you are not happy with it being so obvious. If they are able to get them that good to acquire sales, then yours should be too!

    This post was edited by snookums2 on Wed, Apr 10, 13 at 10:27

  • PRO
    Granite City Services
    10 years ago

    I am a fabricator:

    if the piece was long (which happens occasionally) good install guys can trim it in the field. However, grinding the seam would always be the last resort due to the aforementioned superiority of seam faces processed in the fab shop.

    The seam should only have been ground on site if the other end of the piece was exposed and finished.

    In a high end shop the seam face will not only be cut on an expensive ($50 - $100,000) bridge saw but the sawn seam face will often be dressed further if the part is going on a CNC subsequent to sawing.

    Bottom line is your seam should not be easily visible from across the room. A good seam isn't noticable unless looked for except in the instance where a grain transition at the seam highlights it.

    It is possible to change the color of a seam after install and the fabricator should be willing to do this if asked.

  • sail_away
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Oldryder, Thanks for adding your comments. I spoke with DH this evening, and we agreed I would call the fabricators tomorrow. I really hate complaining, but we agreed we need to give them a call and see what they can do.

    You say they can change the color of the seam after installation, and I hope that will take care of the problem. However, Black Pearl is not uniformly black---I would call it a mottled mixture of black, gray, and a little bit of tan (although, of course, it reads black from a distance). So if the seam color is changed to a uniform black, I think it would still be very obvious. Is it possible to color it in such a way that it's not all one solid color, but allows for variation in color? I'm thinking of what someone described doing with a black permanent marker to fix the seam in his granite and make it fairly invisible.

    It's a shame the piece was just a bit too long, because, judging from the rest of their work, I think if they had put it together without having to shorten it, it would have probably looked much better. I really hope they can salvage the seam.

  • jerzeegirl
    10 years ago

    My black pearl seam was a uniform color but it was mixed in a way that it was really unnoticeable. The predominant color is black (actually since it was honed they used a soft black color). Let us know how it turns out.

  • sail_away
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I called the fabricators' shop, and they are going to send someone out. However, they said that they are backed up with work and probably can't get out for 2-3 weeks. I don't mind waiting, but I hope the 2-3 weeks isn't a reflection of the fact that they aren't taking my concern seriously. (Maybe I did too good of a job telling them what a good job they did otherwise.) After I made the call, i started feeling insecure and wondering whether I'm asking them to come out unnecessarily. As I've said repeatedly, the seam is nice and tight, but I don't like that I can see it from across the room. I could understand being able to see the seam, if there was a lot of movement in the granite, but there's not.

    So, to anyone who is reading this, can you see the seams in your granite from 10-12 feet away? Or, if you have had a lot of experience with granite, could a seam that can be seen from across the room be considered okay?

  • sudaki
    10 years ago

    Just read through this thread and it describes my recent experience! I am having someone come out Friday to look at a poor seam in granite installed
    last Friday. My other interactions with this shop - sales consultant, templating and fabrication have been excellent so I am hopeful that they will be able to correct the seam. In addition to a color difference there is very slight lippage, worse midseam than on the front of the counter. Is that correctable once the counter is installed and sealed? My granite is costa Esmeralda (which I love!)

  • Vertise
    10 years ago

    I don't think you are being picky. You paid a whole lot of money for this. It should be (near) perfection. Like the showroom.

    Put it aside. Don't worry about it anymore. It sounds like the company delivers good craftsmanship, so I think they will want to correct it.

  • sail_away
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Sudaki, Your issues sound worse than mine---I'm so sorry. I hope they can fix it for you in a way you're happy with. Either way, though, we're not happy with things as they are now. Hopefully some of the more experienced people here will comment on your question. Let us know how things work out.

    Thanks, snookums, for the reassurance. I don't mind standing up for myself when I KNOW something can be done better, but I don't want to turn into a difficult customer whom it's impossible to please. I honestly don't know if this is the best they can do---that's why I'm asking others who are reading this to tell me if their seams are visible from 10-12 feet away.

    If others report that their seams aren't visible from across the room, that would make me feel more confident about asking someone to come out and consider what can be done to improve it. The guy at the shop did mention that "not all granites seam as well as others," which has me a bit concerned that either my dissatisfaction is unreasonable or that they will be unable/unwilling to improve it.

  • sudaki
    10 years ago

    Hoping that this isn't thread hijacking but think that it goes with the intent to know what is a reasonable expectation in granite seam quality. (Desiring to be an informed but not difficult client :-)!)

    Here are some photos of my granite seam. It is hard to see the height difference in the photo - but it definitely catches the sponge as I am cleaning)

    I think that the templater/fabricator did an excellent job of matching the flow but am unhappy with the seam color and roughness.

    Any thoughts?

    sail-away - I agree with your decision to have someone come look at your granite. In my mind I want to be able to give this shop as high a recommendation as possible and not settle with something that is less than their best.

  • mark_rachel
    10 years ago

    Sail away- do you have a pic? I was really nervous about our seam, but it came out great. I wouldn't settle for anything else. They need to at least fix the color. Same thing with sudaki.

  • sail_away
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Sorry--Don't have a photo, but I can say it looks a lot like Sudaki's, except my granite is darker (Black Pearl) and the seam is gray. I don't think there's any lippage, though, although the seam is rougher than I expected, based on what I've seen elsewhere and in their showroom.

    I hope they can do something with the seam without taking too drastic measures, although I'm a bit worried since the installers seemed to work really hard on the seam, including using a torch on it, to get it right. Hopefully, whoever they send out to look at it will have other ideas.

  • sudaki
    10 years ago

    Just a follow up and an encouragement to sail-away to politely persist in having your granite seam fixed. The template guy came out yesterday and was able to scrape out the light/rough parts of the seam, mix a darker epoxy, then fill and polish the seam. It is much better.... Not perfect, but smoother and much less noticeable. We will happily move on. Wishing sail-away an equally satisfactory result.

  • Vertise
    10 years ago

    Can we see?

  • sudaki
    10 years ago

    My much improved granite seam!


  • Vertise
    10 years ago

    That is much better! You're right, they sure did do well with the flow.

  • PRO
    Granite City Services
    10 years ago

    " Is it possible to color it in such a way that it's not all one solid color, but allows for variation in color? "

    matching the color of a variable stone across a seam is unrealistic. A solid color is whats done even in very high end application and the visibility of a lighter or darker color is somewhat subjective. The installer will color match in a way that meets his best judgement (and, remember, he does this hundreds of times per year). However, sometimes the homeowner see's the seam color and wants lighter or darker. thats OK. asking for a varied color seam is not realistic.

  • mic111
    10 years ago

    You can actually match your seam much better with colored permanent markers. One granite installer did that for me one time with a black permanent marker and I was amazed how it disappeared before my eyes. The trick is to look for spots where there is the same color on both sides and then join them up with the same color. Very lightly. No heavy marks.

    Here is a link that might be useful: some colored markers

  • mark_rachel
    10 years ago

    " Is it possible to color it in such a way that it's not all one solid color, but allows for variation in color? "
    "matching the color of a variable stone across a seam is unrealistic. A solid color is whats done even in very high end application and the visibility of a lighter or darker color is somewhat subjective. The installer will color match in a way that meets his best judgement (and, remember, he does this hundreds of times per year). However, sometimes the homeowner see's the seam color and wants lighter or darker. thats OK. asking for a varied color seam is not realistic."

    .....this is not true at all. My seam is made of a few different colors. I've seen this in a few installs in my area.

  • mark_rachel
    10 years ago

    Here is my seam at a distance.

  • MrsShayne
    10 years ago

    I knew my kitchen layout required a seam so I was pretty nervous. I also picked one of the cheapest granite guys ��" LOL. At the end of the day, a seam is a seam and itâÂÂs there. Some are better than others. Without seeing yours, I canâÂÂt be sure if itâÂÂs an âÂÂacceptableâ seam. My granite is very busy and where the seam is, the character of the granite runs in different directions. Yes, I know the seam is there but I think my granite is SO busy that itâÂÂs not an eye sore. I give it a B-⦠The color of the seam is a little light in my opinion but IâÂÂm not taking a maker to it. I think with your type of granite the seam should not be very noticeable. IâÂÂm sure when the granite was taken outside and âÂÂgrounded offâ it wasnâÂÂt done perfect. When granite fabrication takes place, the fabricator should line up the granite where the seam is to ensure a perfect fit. IâÂÂm sure this was done with your granite but once the granite was modified, well, you know the rest. . I think a small part of your issue could be that you know the seam is there and youâÂÂre drawn to it (so you constantly think itâÂÂs noticeable).

    I didnâÂÂt read all the comments so I may have missed this but- Did you granite guy say anything? Did you mention your thoughts to him?

  • sail_away
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    A lot has been going on here, besides our work on our kitchen (health issues, etc.) so I lost track
    of this thread for a while. First, congratulations,
    Sudakii, on getting your seam fixed to your
    satisfaction.

    Thanks for the comments and answers to my questions. I was concerned that, initially, the first
    person I spoke with seemed unenthused about my request that someone come out and
    take a look to see what they could do. However,
    we were finally able to borrow a
    camera and email them a couple photos of our seam. After that, we got a call from
    someone else who apologized for the way it turned
    out and said they would send someone
    else out who should be able to fix it to our satisfaction. Unfortunately, due to scheduling
    difficulties, we have to wait a couple weeks.I'm hoping they can get ours to look as good
    as yours, teachertile.

    Since we now have photos, I'm going to try to attach them to this post---my first attempt,
    so we will see how it goes. The photos are very washed out and the granite appears much
    lighter than it is. We have Black Pearl, which is primarily black (not as much color variation
    as teachertile's granite)---in fact, from a distance it just looks black.


  • MrsShayne
    10 years ago

    Yay! You got photos! I can see your concern with the seam and I think you have a valid reason to be upset. It's good that someone is coming out soon. I still don't understand how a fabricator/granite guy can fix this issue, now that it's installed ??? Even though Sudaki's looks amazing after being touched up... I still find it hard to believe a true fix is possible without having to replace the slab. Your issue is the seam is very uneven making it stand out. It should have smooth edges that line up evenly... I'll admit my seam close up starts off perfect, close together-barely there, but then widens towards the end, making it more noticble. I didn't say anything because I went with the cheapest guy but I think someone who knows what they are doing could probably make it look better (Sudaki is proof that it can be better) but I still find it hard to believe a seam Like yours can be truly fixed without removing and reinstalling.. Maybe some small touch ups will make a world of difference ? Keep us posted!

  • badgergal
    10 years ago

    I also agree that your seam does not look very good. I am hoping that maybe the guy just did not know how to fill the seam with a straight, smooth line. (I know I sometimes have trouble neatly caulking things that need to be caulked.
    I have verde peacock granite which is similar in that it presents itself has almost black. If you need to show you granite person what a good seam on a dark granite looks like then show him this one.

  • sail_away
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I hope that they can repair it and make it acceptable---the last person I spoke with by phone (who had seen the photos) was confident they could fix it wtih a repair. Of course, it's probably her job to sound confident. I will let you know how things turn out. I am encouraged that she was so apologetic that they didn't get it right the first time. Also, as I mentioned earlier, I have seen their work in the showroom, and every one of the seams was perfect---you really had to work to find the seams. We shall see though, .

  • annkh_nd
    10 years ago

    Great news, Sail! I'm pleased that you have a fabricator who cared about the quality of his work, had the skills to do it right - and wanted to make you happy. May we all be so fortunate!

  • sail_away
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Annkh, Yes--it is a great relief. I didn't reveal one important element of this whole thing. We went through a company that contracted with the fabricators for the granite installation. We chose to do so because this company had a showroom where we could see firsthand the quality of the fabrication and installation. Much to my surprise, when we went to sign the contract, DH had agreed to pay IN FULL at that time. I wanted to protest, but they had stayed open late Friday afternoon to accommodate our schedules, DH had agreed to those terms previously, and the company has been in business for more than 30 years, with a very good reputation. However, a couple weeks later, when the granite guy came out to template the counter tops, he mentioned that the company with the showroom was now out of business and that we were lucky to be one of the last people they did business with. When we signed the contract and paid 100%, I asked whom we would contact if we had any problems or dissatisfaction with the granite installation, and the showroom guy said, "Contact me. We will followup and make sure our customers are 100% satisfied." I immediately thought, "Uh-oh."

    So, when we had a problem I was really, really worried---since we had no leverage (i.e., withholding final payment). Thankfully, we came out okay. Lesson learned.

  • sudaki
    10 years ago

    So glad for you that you are now happy with the granite seam! ...... And given your most recent posting I can see why you were doubly concerned. Black pearl looks like a striking granite.. Enjoy your beautiful countertop.

  • badgergal
    10 years ago

    Glad to hear you got an acceptable resolution for the bad seam. Hope that's the last of your remodel problems. Looking forward to your reveal.

  • Nancy Mee
    10 years ago

    Hi, glad to hear your situation has been resolved. Would you mind looking at my seam in Ubatuba installed 4 weeks ago. I'm not happy at all but have been trying to be okay with it. I finally called the fabricator, and they will be out next week.

    How does my pic compare to what your seam looked like? There is a 1/2 chunk glued back in at the angle:(

    Thanks for your time.

  • MrsShayne
    10 years ago

    OMG -Jane! You did the right thing by contacting the fab. You have every right to be upset. That is NOT acceptable in any way, shape, or form. I have never seen someone use a "chunk" of granite like that. The seam is also quite large. Again, not acceptable. They either need to replace and fix both pieces or give you a full refund. I don't see how someone could fix this seam by touching it up (especially with the chunk) but who knows, maybe it's possible. I can't believe that until I see it. Good luck. Let us know what happens.

  • gregg2597
    10 years ago

    I feel for all of you. I didn't finish reading all the postings but we just had installed black honed granite and it looks and feels great, except for the dam line, hahaha. Its more like a groove and I just wanted it to feel flat. I told the company give me some of the epoxy you used and Ill finish it with a razor edge, Iam sure that will work in my case.
    Gregg

    Here is a link that might be useful: my web site

  • bsp0418
    10 years ago

    i own a granites shop, and looking at the pictures and the complaints, the common problem imho, is that they used only the two part epoxy and colored that to seam the pieces together. We will you a rapid edge 2 part penetrating epoxy and a simple base color of the rock to seam, carve the excess close to the surface out, go back and fill and color match with a knife grade epoxy (tends to not give off the hazy glow of most seams) and surface polish if needed. Most shops will say never touch the surface, thats old news. there are tools now to shine seams so they are un noticeable.
    we also start the tiniest bevel on the seams edge with 1000 pad up to buff to get rid of the grey rocky look on the edge of the seam.

    If you were my customer and unhappy with the seam, it wouldnt be a problem for me to make a second attempt at getting it right.

  • bsp0418
    10 years ago

    Also, how large is your island? i personally have never had to or wanted to seam an island

  • peachy605
    9 years ago

    Hi,

    We had a raised bar that we cut out and "attached" to our existing counter to make it a one level penninsula. The granite guy did a great job since a couple of other folks refused to reuse the granite from the raised bar and said the only safe way to do this would be to replace the entire slab.

    In any case I am very happy with the end result and am aware that it an extremely large seam but yet I feel he could have done a better job with the seam. It seems uneven and a bit too thick. I know I went with the cheapest quote so I don't really feel like going back to him asking him to fix but was hoping there's something I can do (maybe use a sharpie?) to make it look better?

    Any suggestions?

  • peachy605
    9 years ago

    One more picture of the entire area..

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    9 years ago

    peachy605:

    You could try the Sharpie idea in an inconspicuous area. Have some acetone ready in case you don't like your results. If you do and the seam seems low, fill it with super glue and spray it with catalyst. It will harden instantly and you can scrape it flush with a razor blade.

  • peachy605
    9 years ago

    Thank you Trebruchet!
    So I did try the Sharpie once I got home from work (DH thought I was being OCD) and I think if anything at least it blends it better. The seam however to me is still visible. Maybe because I know there is a seam?
    I've attached a pic after using the Sharpie on one side of the seam. Can you tell where the seam is?

    {{!gwi}}

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    9 years ago

    I'm not seeing a picture.

  • peachy605
    9 years ago

    For some reason it didn't attach the first time. What's wierd is the color of the raised bar granite is slightly different from the counters. They are from the original installation the builder did. We bought a spec home else I would never had the raised bar in the first place!

  • jellytoast
    9 years ago

    I can't see the actual seam in the picture so I can't see where the Sharpie made a difference. Maybe that's something you can see better close up. I can tell where the seam is, though, because the pieces are somewhat different colors, and that is more noticeable on the right side in your picture.