I don't know about code here, but I have 18" between cabs and counter and stacked cabs, but had to do without the crown. (I don't miss it but many people think a kitchen looks incomplete without it.) You could have crown, but then you sacrifice cab height. Then there's the type of single door that has panels to make it look sort of like a stacked cab, which could work, as less space is lost with no doubling up on the box exteriors.

Here are my stacked cabs (before splash was finished) with 8' ceiling:

Do you mean stacking shorter cabinets on top of standard 30" cabinets, or do you mean ceiling high cabinets?

Check out this discussion below.

Here is a link that might be useful: cabinet heights

my understanding was the "industry norm" is 18 inches between counter and cabinet, but not CODE. I certainly could be wrong, but that's how my KD explained it. FWIW, we opted for 17 inches in order to accommodate what we wanted - we had 19 inches in the old kitchen and I don't even notice the difference.

nosoccermom, I was referring to one cabinet over another. And in our discussion I was entertaining small cabinets with glass. I knew there wouldn't be much practical storage space in them but I was searching for a way to add interest and personality to the space. I will take time to read the page you linked - Thanks for attaching.

fouramblues, I like your cabinets & will copy the pic to show her. I especially like how you did your hood. Before even starting w/ a KD I debated for some time about a chimney hood vs mantel vs under-cab, and I think an understated under cab is how I should go.

This post was edited by amck on Fri, Apr 11, 14 at 11:46

You can do it, but you don't want to use 30" cabinets for the lowers. You want to use 27" cabinets, with 12" on top (no mullioned glass, as it's too small for that) or 24" with 15"'s on top, but neither are ideal proportions. That leaves you 3" for crown. The latter is a bit top heavy, but it does give you enough room for mullioned glass. It's all about the appropriate scale, and 30's with 12's is a bit off in scale, plus it leaves no room for crown. The ideal proportions are 2/3 and 1/3 to 3/4 to 1/4. Thirds is better, but you can't always achieve that.

I'm glad the pic helps amck. FYI, mine are 15" over 27", so I've got a nice proportion but no crown. Below is a link to one of many houzz pics of the single door made to look like a transom.

Here is a link that might be useful: [Single door transom look[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/laurelhurst-kitchen-traditional-kitchen-seattle-phvw-vp~242080)

Don't forget if you want a valance (light rail) at the bottom of your cabinets to add it in the measurements. In our new build the code is 18" of space as well. We brought our cabinets down to the 18" and will be adding the valance after the inspection.

fouramblues, your kitchen is gorgeous!!! I would never have guessed your ceiling is 8 ft., nor did I notice you have no crown. Don't point it out and no one will be the wiser. :)

Ask for the specific code citation and please report it here before this thread creates a panic.

Could she mean the NKBA guidelines?

Ask for the specific code citation and please report it here before this thread creates a panic. A perusal of the 'net suggests there are some cities in Canada with such codes, but nothing in the US.

Could she mean the NKBA guidelines?

Aww, thanks, linelle! I've been enjoying my new kitchen for over a year and a half now, and feel rather guilty that I haven't done a finished kitchen post yet. Actually, it's still not 100% finished, but is finished enough for pics!

We run into 18" being "code" next to the cooking surface. There is no line in the national code but inspectors use mfg spec for cooking appliances -all show 18". Some inspectors count light rail, some don't (so often installed after inspection)

I sure didn't mean to cause a panic. I don't know specifics but KD & GC recounted an instance when a kitchen didn't meet code because of 1/2" of additional light rail, which is why they've become such sticklers. I live in NH.

I am curious about the code as well. I specifically requested that my height be 15 inches but I still wanted only a 1 foot open space above so my uppers are actually 32 inch uppers.

I like the cabinets being lowered because I can reach everything on every shelf without a step stool.

While there are national and even international codes that are the basis for most local code, it is the local code that counts and those vary. So some places may have a general 18" limit.

It also happens that sometimes code has something specific like 18" by cooking surfaces and KDs and contractors remember it as something general that keeps them out of trouble.

When you figure your cabinet sizes, remember to allow for the fact that your 8' ceiling may not be exactly 8' everywhere. During installation we found that our ceiling was actually 95" instead of 96" in part of our kitchen. We had 42" uppers (the same height that fouram's 27 plus 15 total) and were planning on a minimal 3/4" molding strip which went with our home's modern style and the bottom of the lighting rail being at 17" over our counter top.

We would have been willing to shorten the toe kick to put the countertop at 35" to make up for that, but the low spot included the dishwasher location and that could have limited future dishwasher choices. And that was also the area where we wanted to put the Kitchenaid mixer. Fortunately, we didn't have any code issue with going less than 18" and we were able to figure out how to work with the 7' 11" height. Also our rangetop is on the island so there was no issue of uppers next to burners.

I think "code" and "standard" are used mistakenly, interchangeably. They're not.

I have 19" between my counter and uppers, to accommodate some light rail. On top of my normal, 30" cabinets I've stuck normal, 12" tall cabinets. Done. Stacked cabinets. I'm even putting glass in those upper uppers, even though I'll probably never, ever put anything in them. I just liked the look.

If she was discussing it with you, why didn't she mention this "code" at that time?

Love the idea of that transom door! I'm assuming it would be much more cost effective than two cupboards, and you would gain more useful and flexible storage space.

I ran into the same code issue when my son was renovating his kitchen after a flood. (I designed it for him). In his case, in Alberta, Canada, the code was cupboards within x amount of distance from the stove had to 18" above the counter. For the rest of the kitchen, the code did not apply. So, I am sure this will vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Here, in BC, Canada, there is no such code (Or there wasn't 7 years ago when we renovated).

I thought the 18" suggested distance pertained to all the "stuff" you need to have under the upper cab when you are working. Stuff being blender, mixer, coffeemaker, etc. at times when countertop space is at a premium and they are being moved around. I will measure my mixer in the AM because now I am curious.

Your kitchen designer sounds like a person who does not see all roads leading to home meaning there are many different ways to achieve the same goal... Most semi custom cabinet companies that are limited to be more Henry Ford like in production do not offer the 12" high cabinets in each 3" width from 9" to 36" or wider. They tend to offer them for the sizes used over the appliances which use them the most. So 30, 33, and 36" would be commonly needed.

Your kitchen plan normally has a lot of other widths used that are not those sizes. The companies that have the stacked cabinets pre made are generally 42" or higher. I have 5 cabinets lines I offer. 3 of the 5 do not have stacked cabinets in the book.... One of the 3 has 12" high cabinets starting 12" wide but does not have a corner cabinet less then 30" high.... They happen to offer custom cabinets on a quote by quote basis which is why I like them. But you should see my point...

Your kitchen designer should have explained better the reason why they did not offer you what you were looking for. It is either they feel a 27" under a 12" with a 3" crown over that is not a good use of space or.... they do not have a company they can do it at all or for the price they are planning to present to you.... That discussion would have been much more meaning full....

I can for example use a stacked cabinet that is 42" having 2 open compartments, with Showplace and shrink it 3" if you want the molding as most would... I can also with them as was suggested above just build the door with a glass panel in the top section of it. They are # 4 out of my 5 as 5 being the highest price in general....

18" is the general rule of thumb for recommended clearance to the countertop. 15" is considered as low as you should go and 21" is pushing the upper side of reasonability for most projects...

The codes as noted above are concerned with being able to set fire to combustible wood cabinets having appliances that generate heat under them...

You should be able to do what you are looking for. You just have to decide what look you like, crown or no crown, and find who can offer it to you at a price you can afford...

davidindc, thank you for giving some perspective on this. I am quick to defer to professionals, like the KD w/ more than a decade of experience, because she deals with codes and construction on a daily basis. But I did not take into account that she might be planning my layout using only the brands her firm carries.

We had not given a specific budget ceiling, instead asking her to come up with her best ideas to bring function and a refreshed and personalized look to our kitchen. DH told her that if her plan proved beyond what we were able to do we could work to scale down, rather than limit her creativity..

After seeing the transom doors and fouramblues' stacked cabinets I am becoming more convinced that I do not have to settle for the same cabinet configuration I presently have just because I have 8' ceilings.

I think there has to be an optimum size for the cabinet door for the transom look. They usually look too small, like little glass peep holes marching around the ceiling. They hold one small item that can't be seen very clearly, so I don't find it a very good way to display a collection. I would ask to see photos of real kitchens with the windows lighted before I decided on that style.