If we had gone to the local courthouse and checked for court cases on our first cabinet maker, we never would have hired him. He had a clear record at the BBB and the contractors board, but not at the courthouse. Expensive lesson to learn.

Also be sure to see a recent kitchen similar to yours that he has done.

Good luck.

Well...ask to see his work, and talk to him about custom shapes and sizes if that's important to you. If he's buying the doors and drawer faces does that mean that he's restricted to standard sizes? If so, he might make good cabinets, but they're not completely custom. My cabinetmaker said that he could build anything that I could draw sufficiently well, or had a photo out of, if it was made out of wood (i.e., there was an extra charge for any special hardware he had to buy to make it work). He made all of my doors and drawer faces, and had them custom finished, but they're slab. That was my request, so I don't know that he makes or buys the kind of fancy door you have in your other thread.

If you don't need that level of customization, or if his face supplier can accommodate whatever size and shape you need, this isn't an issue.

It sounds like his product is quality. The best way to be sure is to talk to references, and see his finished and installed work.

I am awaiting delivery of my Crown Point cabinets this month. I can not say enough about how great the process has been so far.

I liked them so much, that we switched to CP from another cabinet company even after paying a four figure design fee our first kitchen designer. If you want I can upload a photo of our sample Crown Point Door vs a Signature door to see the difference. The CP doors are 1" thick.

I would consider touring the factory and pricing out your kitchen with CP first. If they are out of your price range then you at least can compare their quality/price vs the competitors.

In order to get the lowest price in your quote, start with square (not beaded) inset, stain, and a standard door. The numerous changes that I made to my design saved us thousands, improved storage, and we got exactly all the features/ upgrades we wanted.

Here's a silly thing to ask the cab guy... I ordered custom cabinets for my last house, and the bottoms of the cabinets were only made of 1/4" material. I was told on this forum and by him that that was okay (and it did hold up... wider cabinets had a middle brace), but when I went to screw in my undercab lights (w/ 1/2" screws, since most cabinet bottoms are 3/4") the screws came up thru the bottom of the cab. They had to be sawed off and new false bottoms put in to cover the holes.

Silly thing... I never thought to ask about how thick the bottom of his cabinets were. Doors are solid wood... everything was dovetailed.. high quality. That just always struck me as odd. Who knew?

If he's local, he should have many local references you can call or, even better, go see in person. That way you can judge not only the quality of the cabinets, but the quality of the service. I used a local cabinet maker and he was happy to give us recent references as well as references from jobs he had done years ago. Good luck!

Thanks for the answers -- I especially like the comment about checking the size of the cabinet bottoms. I'm pretty sure he said 3/4" all around, but it's worth double-checking. I don't think we're interested in starting a-fresh with YA new vendor like CP...

Debs -- how could you have found court cases against your vendor?

plllog -- he claimed that he could do anything, which tells me that his door / drawer-head supplier has an awful lot of flexibility. We don't have anything too crazy going on so it shouldn't be a problem in any case.

Thanks again!

Here are some good craftsmanship guidelines:

Case Components
�" thick plywood sides, tops and bottoms, with natural birch or maple interior

Front Frames
�" thick solid wood with 2" stiles and rails. Blind mortise and tenon joints. Face frames are doweled or pocket screwed

Shelves
�" thick birch plywood with edge band
Drawer boxes 4 sided �" maple dovetail drawer boxes
Drawer slides KV full extension side mount, Blum under mount tandem or Blum under mount motion. Hinges and drawer slides guaranteed for life

Finish
Interior has 2 coats sealer and 2 coats clear finish. Exterior is finished with hand-applied stains, paints and/or glazes and 2 final top coats.

Senator13 -- thanks, those specs all sound very familiar, except for the exterior finish. He has a finishing machine of some kind -- what questions should I be asking about his finishing process?

If he is good he will make the whole case out of 3/4" sheet goods. Incidentally, for true 32mm construction ( frameless ), veneer core plywood is not the right material. Mdf or particle board core is. Plywood is never flat and not consistent in thickness throughout the entire sheet as a result the 3mm reveals between doors and drawer fronts will always be imperfect.

As for finishing, if its a kitchen, he should be using conversion varnish and not pre-cat lacquer.

Cabmanct - could you elaborate? I wasn't aware that mdf was better for frameless construction...

My only suggestion is to be certain he's built the type of cabinets you want... frameless Euro-style, right?

We hired a cabinetmaker who'd done beautiful framed full-inset cabinetry and lots of traditional stuff. He built us a frameless vanity and wall cabinet for our master bath, and they're both falling apart. He just didn't understand the loads on a different type of cabinet, I think.

I would ask the cabinet guys for references for three previous clients who had purchased an entire kitchen going back 2 years or more. Then go to see those and find out how they held up. Look at door condition, finish condition, joints and general construction. See if screws are coming through anywhere or coming loose.

For me, the only way to tell the quality is over time and with use. Most things look good as potential and when new.

I went with Plain & Fancy cabinets not after seeing their demo kitchen or even because they were used on This Old House. I went with them because the finish I wanted looked great in a house our contractor had done 5 years before. You can judge from the condition of the rest of the house as to whether or not they are getting hard wear. If they are, and still look good, you know you're ok.

My 2 cents.

You asked how I could find court cases. I went to the courthouse of the county his business is in. Our courthouse keeps the last three years on their computer for public access. I did a search using the company name and the owner name. The staff also pulled the actual files for me to look at. There were 8 cases, many were unpaid bills, but a couple were cabinet customers. Much more enlightening than than his clean record at the BBB and the Contractors Board.

staceyneil -- thanks.. Actually, we're not married either way to the idea of framed or frameless... we just don't like inset (or mullions). So we're considering frameless with this guy because that's what he primarily does, and framed (full overlay) with the others because that's what they do. I know about the space tradeoff; I just can't get myself that wrapped up about it either way.

debs3 -- thanks for the tip; I will look it up.

Sorry for the delay
Frameless cabs are European in origin which means they are metric ( US & England are the only Imperial holdouts left on the planet ). All your modern hardware ( hinges & slides )are designed in metric around the 32mm system. True frameless cabs are all in increments of 32mm, so a base cab would be 768mm ( 24 increments of 32mm ) This makes drawer and door sizes easy, as you could have a 6,6,6,6 or a 5,6,6,7 or an 8,8,8 or a 5 drawer ( 5 x32 ) & a 19 door ( 19 x 32 ). This is all very exact. The reveals on euro cabs are usually 3mm between doors and drawer fronts. When you place two cabs together, they need to have a shared 3mm reveal, so in actuality they only have 1.5mm each of a reveal. Where is this going?
Veneer core plywood has never been nor will ever be flat or have uniform thickness (3/4" ply can go from 11/16 to 23/32 throughout the sheet ). So, you need these crazy exact reveals you dont have a square face frame to hide an out of square box so all your door and drawer front reveals dont line up. It can look horrible.
Mdf and pb have a bad name but they are flat and consistent in thickness. They are the superior substrate anyone who tells you different ask to see a true frameless cab made from ply and check the reveals.

Absolutely agree with cabmanct.. If he cannot spray conversion varnish - walk/run. otherwise you will be sorry in a couple of years especially if you ever drip water.... we were.

CabMan -- if I follow you, the problem would be that you'd see gaps between the cabs. And I thought that when you put two cabs next to one another, you would flatten out those gaps by screwing the cabs together. And then I thought you'd adjust the doors and drawers to make the reveals even.

Am I missing something?

Sorry, the reveals I am talking about are between the doors and drawer fronts. The reveal should be no more than 3mm between doors/drawer fronts, anything else looks hinkey. The gaps need to be consistently 3mm all over, vertically and horizontally, plumb and level for all your door and drawer reveals. The only way to get this level of accuracy is by having a square box to mount the doors/drawer fronts to. You can't make a square box out of plywood, you can only make a square box out of a man made material, such as mdf or pb.
Hope this helps

Hey NYSteve, we're neighbors. Well, Rockland County neighbors, at least.

I don't know of YFD, but we used Belmonte & Sablich from Garnerville. Too bad we found them after we already ordered the main part of our kitchen, because we might have had him do the whole thing.
He did our island and it is stunning. The price was fabulous. AND they are so super easy to work with.
in fact, we liked him so much that we had him make a huge wall of built-ins in the family room. They look like they have always been in the house.

I would recommend them highly. Everything that everyone says above, they do. Oh, and go frameless. Why lose that much interior space?

John Belmonte from Belmonte & Sablich - 845-429-3101.
Tell him it was from Melinda Koss.

Steve

Lots of good advice here -

I would definitely view cabs that have been installed for awhile as rocco recommended -

Also, I would find out where the cabinet maker purchases the majority of his wood and contact them direct ask - How long they have been in business w/cabinetmaker, does he have a LOC (line of credit), does he pay his bills in a timely fashion. I would expect an established cabinet maker to have a decent LOC w/most frequented vendors, if he can't produce proof of that i would have some concern

Ask if he ever uses helper or subs & you can contact them to see if he is a good business man.

I would also inquire what his expected payment schedule is. It seems that varies widely & is largely accepted that anyone asking for full price prior to making cabinets is a big NO up front. I feel a good/fair is 1/3 up front, 1/3 half way through & 1/3 upon delivery
I have used an master cabinet maker in Garrison NY - incredible work - both residential & commercial - built much of the now defunct SONY studios on 8th ave in NYC