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| So this marble lover is finally able to embrace the granite countertop thing. After a year of searching I came across a beautiful granite called Titanium Black. As I posted earlier (but can't find), I am wondering if anyone has info about and/or experience with this stone?
My layout includes an island that is 117in x 37.5in. There will be a 13.5in overhang along the back for stools and an 8in overhang on the two sides. My fabricator, who is very reputable, says I do not need any supports for the larger overhang. I have questioned them on two occasions and they keep telling me it is fine to do this and that they do these overhangs often. This is NOT what I have read here. Also, they showed me a thin 6in line along the top of one of the slabs and said it was a "crack". They are planning to start using the granite for the island an inch below where the crack ends. Again, they have a very good reputation, I have seen there work and have also read good reviews about them on this site. So to all the granite experts, what do you think? Thanks so much for your help! |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by azstoneconsulting (My Page) on Sun, Mar 21, 10 at 19:49
| Your Fabricator - however reputable - IS WRONG!!!! The rule of 6 & 10 is very clear - depending on whether you are using Remember that: IF you are using 3CM stone ANY unsupported span of This iS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE - yet Bonehead after Bonehead STILL insists Do it right NOW - rather than doing it OVER the SECOND TIME..... it's your choice - NOT your reputable Fabricator's hth kevin |
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| Thanks Kevin! That is what I have always read here and I am so glad you set me straight. I guess that was what my gut was telling me, even thought they assured me TWICE. I think we will go with wooden corbels that we will put in ourselves after they do the install. If I remember correctly the formula to use is: overhang-stone thickness (so 13.5 in overhang - 3cm granite = 10.5 in wooden corbles). Does that sound about right? Also, what do you think about using the cracked slab. They will throw out the cracked top part and starting using the stone from an inch below where the crack ended. I am not sure if this granite (Titanium Black) is particularly fragile or not. Have you heard of it? Thanks :) |
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- Posted by azstoneconsulting (My Page) on Mon, Mar 22, 10 at 13:41
| Using a slab that's been cracked from handling can be done - you just have to avoid the cracked areas and either NOT use them - or have the ability (as a Fabricator) to repair and re-enforce the cracks.. it can be done - but it's a PITA and should only be done as a last resort... Check out the Tyler Morris Corbel Wizard - My rule of 6 & 10 is there too... as far as the corbels for your project - anything bugger that 3 1/2 inches Spacing should be NO MORE THAN 16 inches apart IF you want optimum support Oh yeah - Titanium Black IS pretty brittle stuff - once it's in your house - I Enjoy!!!! hth kevin |
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- Posted by annkathryn (My Page) on Mon, Mar 22, 10 at 15:21
| Are counterbalance plates equivalent to rods? For overhangs of 6+ inches, would rods be sufficient to support the granite? |
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- Posted by azstoneconsulting (My Page) on Mon, Mar 22, 10 at 16:16
| Rods are NOT ANYWHERE NEAR the equivalent of counterbalance plates when it comes to supporting an overhang ... the counterbalance plates are DEFINITELY the way to go!!!!!! Counterbalance plates are 3/8" thick and come in two lengths - 9 3/4" i wrote an article in this subject for Stone Business Magazine - a re-print of remember that rods are usually much smaller dimensionally - in 3CM - most guys here is a quick tutorial on "RODDING"...... The use of "rodding" has been embraced by many Fabricators to gain As far using the rods in lieu of corbels or counterbalance plates - I would Anyways - Rods are inserted into the back side of the stone running along FYI - The examples shown here are for a 3CM thick stone application - IF you are doing 2CM First - the 1/4" x 1/2" steel is ready to be "set" into the slot that's been cut just like so........
"Flowing" Epoxy is mixed up and poured into the slot after it has been cleaned out and like this....
The rodding steel is set down into the slot so that the 1/2" dimension will be up
The steel rod is then pushed down into the wet epoxy so that the glue encapsulates the
Excess glue is scraped off the back side of the stone so that when it dries,
thus endeth the lesson!!! HA! hth kevin |
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- Posted by annkathryn (My Page) on Mon, Mar 22, 10 at 19:05
| Wow! Thanks so much for the lesson, Kevin. I had a fabricator tell me that an 8" overhang (2cm granite) would be ok with rods, but it looks like I'd better insist on corbels or counterbalance plates. |
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- Posted by needsometips08 (My Page) on Mon, Mar 22, 10 at 19:11
| Oh, so that's what those lines on the back of my granite are! |
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| Can't thank you enough Kevin for sharing all that good info ya got floating around in that head of yours! :) |
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| Rods will only add strength when the are in tension, hence they would be used when spanning an unsupported area. You could use them on an overhang if you installed them in the top surface. That may not be the look you are seeking though. |
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- Posted by azstoneconsulting (My Page) on Tue, Mar 23, 10 at 2:05
| Rubyvine - thanks for the kind words - I'm glad to be able to help.... Sreeb- This will not work - as it is NOT approved by MIA as a suitable method. The first time you apply a dead load to the overhang without any corbels I have been doing this for over 25 years - you can either do it right - or hth kevin |
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- Posted by riverspots (My Page) on Tue, Mar 23, 10 at 7:19
| My fabricator was also suggesting I needed less support than I felt comfortable with. For my situation, an 11 ft island with overhangs going around the corner, they thought 5 corbels would do it. I've put in 9, though a few of them were partially for looks. But it is an overhang, afterall, and exactly where folks are going to lean and I'd rather prevent cracks than worry about getting them fixed. |
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- Posted by azstoneconsulting (My Page) on Tue, Mar 23, 10 at 9:13
| Riverspots- Now THAT'S what I'm TALKIN ABOUT!!!!! If more people would look at the issue of overhangs the way you do, HA! kevin |
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| So what can you do after your granite has already been installed? Install a corbel underneath? Is there any low-profile corbel or other solution that won't show as much? I have a "boxed in" island approx. 60" long with a 15" overhang on the back for stools -- so the granite overhang is supported on each end by the ends of the island, but spans about 50" in the middle (15" deep) without support. After reading this thread, I'm thinking some extra support under the overhang is needed. |
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| petepiel-I think corbels are the only option once granite has been installed, but Kevin would know best. I checked out the corbles on the Tyler Morris web site and there were some really plain/low profile corbels there. Good luck!! |
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- Posted by benjayva (benjaymusgrove@verizon.net) on Tue, Jun 15, 10 at 14:50
| Bumping this for those of us in this time of our renov...awesome info |
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- Posted by marjoriest (My Page) on Thu, Jun 24, 10 at 8:11
| We are planning to put in a small peninsula with counter height stool/chairs for my children to sit at for snacks and homework advice while I cook. (I am tired or running from the kitchen to the dining room to explain algebra!) My KD said that a 9 inch overhang should be enough and the granite fabricator suggests 2-3 5-7" corbels. Would any other support be necessary? |
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| Not to steal your thread, but I wonder if I am doing this correctly also. My overhang will be 12 1/2" x 48" on the penisula and we are adding 3 corbels 2" wide, 10" tall and 7 5/8" deep. That leaves 4.8" of unsupported granite, we are using 2mm. Would I gain anything by go to a deeper corbel or is it overkill if I am under the 6" limit with 2mm. |
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| bump |
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