When we did our remodel I was told the same thing - cabinets then floor. Our GC immediately talked us out of it. If you ever remodel again and decide to change the kitchen you'll never get the floors to match. Also, the cost of that extra flooring is usually a couple of hundred dollars since cabinets aren't that deep.

Our contractor said that wood floor goes in first (which is what we did) but tile goes in after the cabinets.

Hello Stonitsch,

My brother-in-law is a commercial flooring contractor - one of the largest in New Jersey.

The floors are always, always, always the last to be installed. When the floors are in place, the people are ready to move in or the business is ready to stage its grand opening. You do not want any worker men walking on your floors!

Please wait to install the floors last of all. When your floors are installed, you're ready to start cooking!

You can do it either way; it's really personal preference. Floor first was the preference of most contractors we talked to (and most GWers), but if you want to do cabinets first, you just have to be sure to put plywood underneath them that is the same thickness as the flooring. (So you still have to pick your flooring first, either way, or at least stay with flooring that is the same thickness.) You may also have some seams that need to be covered up if you do the flooring second---that was one big reason we did the floor first (ours is actually marmoleum), since we really didn't like that look.

Generally, floor first is better if you might ever change the cabinets or configuration (and if you think the floor will outlive the rest of the kitchen, it's good for it to be under everything so cabinets could be replaced). Cabinets first is better if your flooring is expensive and you would rather save the cost of putting it under the cabinets by going the plywood route. If you do floors first, a good contractor should be carefully covering your floors so they won't be damaged while other work is being done, so that's not really an issue.

(Oh, I missed the last bit about radiant floor heat...I would do the floors first for sure in that situation, since I think there's more potential for cabinetry to be damaged while that work is being done than for flooring to be damaged by cabinetry installation. Also, with heat under the floors, it's far less likely that someone might swap them out in a few years for aesthetic reasons, I suspect.)

My vote is for floors first.
If you ever change anything out dishwasher etc, it is on the same plane, if you move cabinets or whatever. This is speaking from a ceramic tile standpoint. Laminate or any thin surface, it would not matter either way.

If you put the floors in first it will be easier to level and install base cabinets.

We did floors first in the bathrooms (with tile) AND the kitchen (with hardwood), per the GC in both cases (different GC's). They both then covered the floors in carefully taped down cardboard and tarps while all the other work was being done, so I don't think that "you don't want workmen walking on your floors" should be the deciding factor. That is easily mitigated. We did not take up the tarp covering until the last piece of work was done.

As a HO, it would bother me to move cabs in a reno and have to replace the floor as well, if the floor was otherwise just fine.

Probably depends on the flooring and how it is run but I really doubt if you are changing the cabs you are really going to want the to keep the flooring - seems very unlikely to me unless floor is run throughout that level of the home. Floors wear harder than cabinets - if the cabs are shot you can bet the floors have seen better days (this is yet another argument for cabs first as getting worn floors out if you are keeping cabs is a more difficult if they are laid under the cabs). Remember to account for your flooring height when putting in the cabs if you opt for cabs first. 6 of one half a dozen of the other.

We're putting down a site-built oak floor. First. Then cabs. Reasons are the same as the ones given here.

We did floors first - same reasons as above.

Thanks for the responses!!

Question - - if I put the floor in first, what happens if later I want to change the floor? If the floor is under the cabinets already, what do they do?

Thanks,
Pat

If you are going over the old floor, nothing it goes up to the cabinets.

If you are ripping out the old floor, same thing up to the cabinets.

I would never remove cabinets to change floor covering, short of a structural defect.

The old floor simply remains under the cabinets.

Our pre-finished red oak floor was installed first for all of the reasons mentioned above. Cardboard was laid down to protect the floor till the end of the reno. However, it wasn't enough.

Stonitsch - sounds like you're installing ceramic, so you won't have the headache we did. But, let me share the situation so Breezygirl and any others can be on alert:

1) Pray you have a plumber who installs your refrigerator, sink or dishwasher correctly the first time. Ours didn't tighten the water connection to our fridge so it leaked. But, the leak wasn't detected for 4-5 days. So, the fridge had to be pulled out (plumber did this hastily without glides) which caused scratched areas needing to be replaced in addition to the wood under the fridge and two cabinet stacks.

2) Make sure workers check the wheels on dollies for any tiny rocks or debris before wheeling anything into the kitchen even if there's cardboard or tarp down. In our case, when the floor had been repaired and the fridge moved back into place, some sort of debris on the dolly wheels made new scratches and indents through the cardboard (!) all the way from one end of the kitchen where the fridge was stored where it was installed.

Why pay for materials, time and labor to install flooring where the cabs are going? Use material to build the area under the cabs to the height of the new floor. Especially important if you are ever going to repair or replace the dishwasher. then have the floor put in. The chances that you are ever going to remodel, change the layout and keep the old floor are virtually nil. There are no real reasons to do otherwise unless you happen to have some very, very unique situation such as cabinets on legs where you can see underneath.

We did cabinets first. We will not pick our flooring until we see the granite and cabinets together. (Same for backsplash).

Real hardwood flooring and cabinetry without planned shoe molding: floors first, because otherwise you need a very skilled floor installer to be able to install right up to the cabinets without needing ugly molding to hide the cut edges.

Lino, vinyl flooring: floors last, because often you will run sheet goods right up the toekick for ease of sweeping.

Floating/engineered wood: floors last, because these floors need flexing room.

In general, I think it's advantageous to the homeowner to have the floors done first -- it's more likely a flooring guy will ding the cabinets than that a finish carpenter will ding the floors. And a quality wooden floor will easily outlast two cabinet cycles, so you will indeed want coverage when/if you change the layout in 20 years.

---> To protect floors, always use masonite board covered with rosin paper (unless you're aiming for some quick patina!).

kbmboston - - you hit the nail on the head as to why I was told to wait and pick out the floor last. We are leaning towards crema bordeaux granite, which is a busy pattern and know we will go with a simple backsplash (picked out AFTER the granite will be installed). It is impossible to get a real sample of crema as it varies all over the slab so I thought waiting to pick out the floor would be best.

I can see both ways - doing first and waiting - but the floor guy want to do the floors first for many reasons -

One more headache!!! What else is new!!!!!!

You can do it either way. Some say they don't want to pay for the finished materials under the cabinets. However, with cabinets in first, floor installation is more difficult (extra and more complex cuts, being extra careful around cabinets, etc.). This extra effort may very well cost you at least as much in installation costs as what the extra materials would have cost you...maybe even more.

Pros of floor first:

• Flooring is the same throughout the room and if anything changes you don't have to worry about trying to find matching materials later. If you bought extra of the original, it may or may not be enough for any changes.

Flooring is under all appliances. This is especially important of appliances like ranges & refrigerators that you can see under from a distance.
Installation is easier
You will not need shoe (quarter round) molding to hide any imperfections of installation or damage to cabinet toekicks (You can still have the molding if you like the look or to reduce shoe scuffs, but it's not needed if you don't want it.)
With a tile floor, water damage to the floor can be minimized if there's a leak under a sink, DW, or refrigerator. If the water gets underneath the tile, there may still be damage, but there will always be damage if there's just plywood under the cabinets/appliances. (And water spreads, so it may not just damage the flooring under the affected cabinet or appliance. Also, I'm not certain, but I suspect hardwood floors will weather water better than plywood...can someone weigh in on that?)
Free standing appliances (DW, range, refrigerator) are installed on the flooring so it's easy to move/remove/replace them if needed
Appliances installed in an "alcove" will not become trapped.

Cons of flooring first:

• If you change the flooring later, you will still have the flooring underneath the cabinets....but....so what? Just remove the flooring up to the cabinets and then install the flooring up to the cabinets.

  Actually, this probably doesn't belong as a "con" b/c no matter what you do, flooring first or last, it's the same thing if you change the flooring later.

  One note about this "con"...unless you're installing vinyl or similar, what are the chances you'll replace your floor later? Barring extensive damage (like fire or flood), both tile and wood floors will most likely outlast your cabinets! (Tile & stone are very durable & long lasting and wood can be refinished many times.)

Pros of installing cabinets first:

• Don't have to pay for extra materials to go under the cabinets

With hardwood, it may cost less to repair water damage under a cabinet or appliance b/c you'll be replacing plywood with plywood

Cons of cabinets first:

• Installation may cost more b/c of the more complex cuts and the # of cuts needed.

More likely to damage cabinets during installation than if flooring is first. (If installers do damage the cabinets, be sure they either repair the...

We are currently doing a kitchen remodel and because the tile was laid after the old custom cabinets which were installed in '82 (new cabinets do not come in the same width), we have to have the tile floor replaced. Otherwise, we would have to fix gaps with bits of similar tile, which would be very noticeable and not attractive.

We both wish the original owners had had the floor installed first because we hadn't planned on replacing it and it's not really in our budget. But, it will have to be done. Plus, we've been having issues with the stove not being level which, the contractor said, is because of the missing tile floor beneath. So, from personal experience, a big vote for floors first.

Floors first. This applies in all rooms not only kitchens. Bathrooms, bedrooms etc.

Contractors will give you reasons why it is better to have cabs first. They save on material!

I WISH I would have done the cabinets first! Haven't seen this reason listed yet, but here's my two cents:

Our dog LOVES to pee in the kitchen. I swear, I can leave her outside for a half hour, and she'll come in and pee right in the kitchen. Grrr... good thing we love her... Anyway, we finally resorted to using puppy pads but occasionally she misses. Over the course of the last few years since we remodeled our kitchen, there have been quite a few times that the pee has run down the grout lines and under the cabinets. Now, no matter what we do, we can't seem to get rid of the smell from under the cabinets, even tho the rest of the floor is fine. Sigh...

Even if you had put down plywood instead of tile, the pee would have been absorbed into the plywood and you would still have the odor! In fact, your cabinets may very well have absorbed some of the liquid + odor.

Once the liquid hit the floor, it would have spread...it would not have needed grout lines to spread.

Having suffered through a major slab leak with cabinets that were installed BEFORE flooring, I replace floors first when the cabinets and walls were demolished. As one cabinet builder explained--why have cabinets sitting on plywood or on a slab where water could build up before we noticed a leak. With stone under the cabinets, we have a level plane and water leak will be more more noticable if it happens behind the DW or refrigerator.

Floor first. I'm seriously annoyed because I'm having to replace the entire downstairs floor just because the previous owner tiled with cabinets in place and we're about one box short on extras of the now-discontinued tile.

Beuhl makes a great point in her first graph in first post. With cabs in first, wood floor installer has to be good. Extra cuts means more money and likely you'll end up near the same cost. Plus, then you don't have the advantage of floors under the cabs.

I'm planning on my new site-built oak floor lasting decades. That's why I'm paying more up front.

Either way you go:
Buy extra tile.
Buy extra tile.
Buy extra tile.

At least one full box if you can.

Even if you run it under the cabinets, tile can gouge, it only takes one drop of a heavy pot.

I honestly can't say it enough. The previous owners of our house laid tile to sell. They put the same tile in the kitchen, powder room and laundry room. It's a pretty decent, neutral tile, but they only left 6 tiles. Yup. That's it. We're changing the cabinet layout and obviously the tile did not run under the cabinets. The tile has now been discontinued and 6 tiles wasn't enough to work with so after only 3 years we're having to rip it out. I hope nothing major happens in the other two rooms.

Such great replies. Soft floors should be last, because the cabinets will sink into them. Hard floors, either, but with radiant heat, I'd do the floor first, but I'm not sure I'd want the plumbing heating up the floor under the cabinets and refrigerator.

Floors first and do the whole floor, not just the parts not to be covered by cabinets. During our kitchen reno, we had to deal with patching in and staining the hardwood floor in areas not previously finished before the cabinets could be installed to ensure all flooring was level, and finished where needed. This was such a headache, with time required for staining, sanding, etc. DD kept the same cabinet footprint when renovating her kitchen, but still had patching/staining issues with her hardwood because new cabinets don't fit exactly as the old ones.

THANKS ALL - - think the overall concensus is FLOORS first so this weekend will pick out the ceramic!!

I with the consensus - thru experience. Our tile floor went in last, a total of 1 1/4" above the subfloor. When the dishwasher died, I had to demo it to get it out. Then a superhuman effort (literally several hours) to coax the new one in - and then there was almost no clearance to adjust the legs etc.! Now the counters are being replaced, and we are keeping the cabinets. I am going to pull all the cabinets and lay down OSB to as close as possible to the floor level (maybe leave 1/8 t0 1/4" so the toes still are just below the grout. I hope that does the trick, cause the new counters are granite....

Also, we do have a floating floor under the cabinets (Marmoleum Click tile). Might be different for other types of flooring, but that's been fine (and was recommended by the dealer).

We used wood floors, they went in first. We wanted the height on the cabinets and I didn't want a bunch of floor installers (site finished) around my new cabinets. For us, it was never a question.

We did leave the final finish layer until after everything was done and the floors were covered the entire time.

The cabinets we ripped out were NOT over the tile, they were on the subfloor. I think it might be hard to get it level if its on a tile if the tile has any sort of uneven surface to it? But I'm not an expert on that.

My opinion is if you ever rip out your new cabinets for a future remodel, I'm guessing you will be tired of the floor by then too but I've not been through that.

A very smart KD told me that you have about 30 or so choices for cabinet colors, roughly 100 for stone counters, and probably 1,000 for tile floor. So you CHOOSE them in that order if you can - cabinet, counter, floor. The thing is, once you choose one - then your choices in the others are diminished. So you don't want to buy anything until you've choosen everything. Does that make sense? CHOOSE cabinets first, but INSTALL the floor first.

I understand everyones “opinion” on what to do but that is not the question. Does anyone have an actual technical, sure thing, by the book answer on what HAS to be done??

This thread is 7 + years old. Why don't you start a new thread with your specific circumstance and ask a question. You are still going to get 100 opinions, though. This is not science. The right answer is the one that the person you're paying to do the work says is right.