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lovlilynne

Already blew my cabinet budget, WWYD?

lovlilynne
15 years ago

Hi - after many months of agonizing on how to best utilize my kitchen space, I finally came up with a design that, while is a 3-way compromise, I feel gives me the best options without the $100k+ budget I would need to do otherwise. In my mind, I wanted to keep the total cost to $50k or less. I had $10k in mind for the cabinets (after doing research about low-end to high-end and knowing that the super-high end was out of the question).

Soooo, a little over a week ago I met with a KD to flesh out my design, and after minimal tweaking, we have come up with a plan that I love. Unfortunately, she has come up with a price tag that is $3494 over my budget.

One of the cost factors is that I have chosen a painted finish - this adds a 15% to the cabinets and moldings. I have been drawn to the painted cabinets (biscotti), I believe, because my current cabinetry is that dark colonial stain, and all my wood work is dark.

The other item that is coming in a lot more expensive than I thought is the soapstone CT - her quote is 5633 without a backsplash, and that doesn't count the "buffet" area that will cost me another ~$900 for a butcher block top. I'm not really willing to compromise on the SS - to me this is one of the details that will make the reno worth it.

So, my question is this - a) would you take this design and get prices from another vendor? Or is the ethical thing to do to go to another KD with my original drawings and start the process over again? I'd like to just price out apples to apples to make sure that I'm getting the best deal that I can.

My second question (oh, I didn't say I had two? Sorry!), what would you start cutting to come to your budget? I have glass in one of the uppers that I could skip, I was thinking of changing the finish of the cabinets - the "muslin" that comes standard is also a very light wood. I also thought of going for more of an Arts&Crafts look with a mission oak stain - that is back to a darker wood, but would look sharp, I think, with the SS, and I have a lot of oak furniture (claw pedistal table, chairs, china cabinet, etc.) that would "go" with the mission style. But, I'm not sure if that would make a $3k difference.

Finally, you are probably wondering - what are you worried about if your overall budget is $50k - 3k should still fit in and give you a very nice reno. Did I mention we are taking down a load-bearing wall? As well as a non-load bearing wall. And, the $13.5k does not include the installation of the cabinets. I am closing in a slider to a single patio door, and refinishing existing HW floors as well as adding them to kitchen and hallway, so there is a lot more I have to get done for 50k. Luckily, I will only be replacing my refriderator for now (but, of course, I want a CD/FD! $$$).

I'm attaching pictures of the KD so you can get a sense of the look/feel I am going for an if you can suggest any alternatives for budget cutting.

I've also attached a link to share of photos of current kitchen (so you can see dark cabinets/wood).

Thanks,

Lynne

[IMG]http://i42.tinypic.com/2wmnj1z.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i39.tinypic.com/2lu9xmp.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i44.tinypic.com/2wg9f2h.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/j6h8vq.jpg[/IMG]

share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=8AbM2rZm0ZMmlY

Comments (39)

  • lovlilynne
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sorry, I used the wrong link for the pictures, I will try again:




    And PS - I already asked to have the sink bump out taken out as it adds to the cost (so it is not included in estimate.)

  • caryscott
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Where is the KD from? I gather she is associated with a particular cabinet line. I think it makes sense to look at how you will have to modify your order to meet your budget with her line as well as shop around to see if you can get more of what you want with other lines available in your area. The line she represents may turn out to be the best value for your dollar but you won't know until you look. Tell her the truth, she should have some ideas about what compromises could be made to bring the price closer to what you can afford (which in the end you may need to reconsider).

  • palimpsest
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, I think it would be unethical to take the work of one kitchen designer and price it out at another kitchen place.

    It would be fine to take your original sketches and start over as it were.

    I am surprised the KD gave you a hard copy of the design she did. Most places will not give you a hard copy until you place a deposit.

    In essence she designed your kitchen and you didn't pay her for it. (I am assuming you did not pay a consultation fee, but she will make her fee out of the upcharge if you purchase the kitchen through her: if you paid a design fee, I apologize.)

    I would discuss with her what else you could do to lower the price. Sometimes the price is the price. I was shocked to get an estimate for something I designed recently, so I shopped other companies, who came in at the same prices.

  • lululemon
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't think it is unethical to take the first KD's design to another fabricator to get a quote, but I do think you might be losing a valuable resource by doing that. If you want another quote you can take your original ideas (or slightly modified ideas from the first design) and see what a second or even third designer/fabricator can come up with. You may like their ideas even more.

    I also believe, however, that you owe the original KD the chance to modify to fit your budget if she can. Tell her the truth - after all what's the worst that can happen? If she can't meet your budget, and another quote for similar work does, then your choice is easy and you can rest easy that you gave the first KD every chance.

    And one other thing - try to get the soapstone yourself. Every person along the way adds to the markup on the products they sell no matter what they tell you. Even if they are just passing along their costs it is still money you could save by dealing with the stone yard yourself.

  • palimpsest
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    lululemon,

    The reason that it is unethical because the designer's stock in trade is "ideas". Design is an intangible thing, but taking various ideas and turning it into something that works does require some skills. (Many non-pro's on GW have the skills naturally, but this is a unique group).

    One would never get away for free with an hour's appointment with a lawyer, or a psychotherapist, in which you just talk,,,but people do this to people in the design trades without batting an eye. I am not scolding...but KDs make their living on commissions from sold designs. I am sure this particular KD has plenty of consultations who find out prices and then never commit, she is already working for free there--but to take her work and hand it to someone else...thats just not right, sorry.

  • lovlilynne
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Great follow ups already, thanks.

    Just some clarifications - the KD works for Bradco Supply (www.bradcosupply.com), which says it deals with several cabinet lines, but KD really only ever talked about KraftMaid, so that is what was quoted.

    I have already told KD that I need to bring the $ down, and she did run the price again *without* the painted finish and with plywood cabinets only on the exposed ends. She left all the extras inside the cabinets. This same layout in a standard finish with plywood sides only on the exposed end cabinets comes to $11,402.33 including tax and delivery.

    Soooo, still $1402.33 over my budget, and with the color/finish compromise that I'm not sure I can live with. Also, not sure I should go for the plywood cabinets ONLY on the exposed ends?

    Also, KD did not actually give me cabinet numbers, exact sizes, etc. - it's not an order sheet, but more of a drawing. Yes, I do know most of the dimensions from asking about it, and yes, I could probably figure out the #s from the KM specs book, but I wouldn't do that.

    I really do want to work with her - she's been great, and I don't think she's ripping me off at all, I just want all that I want for the budget that I have :-) Don't we all!

  • lovlilynne
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Palimpsest- I get what you are saying, and I agree that it's wrong to take someone elses work and hand it to someone else. But, in this case, I actually came to her with the basic layout - I knew what style and color of cabinets I wanted, and I knew what flooring and countertops I wanted. KD just put it in her design tool and fit the pieces together. She did tweak it a bit (gave me a pantry cabinet that I hadn't thought would fit), but where does my design end and hers begin?

    All these kitchen places - Home Depot, Lowes, etc. offer a free design service. They know that the person can walk away at anypoint and KD might have hours and hours into the design, but it's just part of the cost of doing business.

    That all said, I think if I do go to another supplier I will just go in with my original drawings. It will be tedious to go through the measuring and design again, but I guess that's the price I will have to pay to compare prices.

    I'm still not sure how I get an apples to apples comparison if I don't have the same or very similar design in the end.

    Lynne

  • palimpsest
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The glass doors add in a geometric fashion to the pricing: the doors are more expensive and then the matching interior is more expensive, and I believe they are also automatically plywood upgrade which is more expensive.

    Many will tell you that you need the plywood upgrade, I think you could do without it except on the exposed ends.

    If you are doing interior bells and whistles could you leave some of them out and add them in later? Also, a standard depth sink base instead of 27" will save on the cabinet And the countertop fabrication.

    As for a backsplash, if you do a painted finish --beadboard painted to match could be a great inexpensive backsplash.

    What you are finding out is that unfortunately, when you start doing structural work, 50K isn't a ton of money :(
    People on some of these forums say that you can do a great kitchen renovation for $3000 and call people who have some pretty realistic budgets idiots for spending too much, etc. but the reality of it is, an all new kitchen is expensive.

  • palimpsest
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Home Depot and Lowe's employees also get paid a salary of some sort and have other responsibilities at the store. They also do not really do project management once the order is placed, and quite honestly, as a designer who has done a couple of kitchens ordered through Home Depot or Lowe's, I have picked up what would have been ordering mistakes in every one. If my homeowner's had gone by themselves, it wouldnt have been the right order.

    And yes, the free design service has really cut into the business of people who are not big box stores. They Do provide a valuable service for people who have no other options, but some times you get what you pay for.

    If you went in to her with a design, I think you can feel ok about taking the design elsewhere. Like I said, I was not scolding, but explaining why it is a grey area.

  • danielle00
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would definitely get this priced out from other people. I had soapstone prices that ranged from 4200 to 6700. Wide variation in cabinet prices too. If you like your KD and her product, have her match the prices you get elsewhere.

  • kitchenredo2
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You mention that you are doing additional work - removing a load bearing wall, removing a non-load bearing wall, closing in a slider, refinishing HW floors, and adding HW to the kitchen and a hall. You are very wise to be concerned about budget and trying to get your cabinet cost down is a smart way to do this.

    I speak from experience. We are doing the kitchen in addition to other renovations and a very small addition. Our house is older (1959) and we had a budget for similar things that you are doing - we removed 2 load bearing walls, will be adding additional HW to the kitchen (the new kitchen space is the old master bedroom (hardwood) and the old master bath (linoleum)). Everything was hunky-dory until we did demolition.

    The two load-bearing walls - they hadn't realized that one was load bearing, so the cost increased. When they added the addition and opened up the roof/ceiling, they realized the addition added by the PO in the 1980's was not done correctly - they didn't properly match the roofs (we don't know why, this is just one of many mysteries) so it wasn't to code and we had to do it correctly and bring it to code, so the cost increased.

    We discovered that the master bedroom floor is one inch lower than the floors in the rest of the house (another mystery). This became an issue b/c this room was now open to what will be the living space and the two different heights meet (this we will solve with a transition piece - I think that is what it is called).

    The wall that was taken down between the old living room and the old kitchen that is to become the new living area, the floor in the old kitchen is lower than the floor in the old living room. Turns out when they replaced floor joists for termite damage for some unknown reason they shaved the joists and this made them lower than in the other room. This had to be fixed by jacking up the floor and placing shims under it so the two floors are now even. And the cost increased.

    I could go on, but I think you get an idea. You never really know your budget until you start demolition and see what is really going on. I had a budget for my cabinets and was pretty close. I also ordered the cabinets before some of the unknown budget increases, so I am now trying to see what I can do to keep the cost close to my original numbers. The scary part is that I did have a generous reserve that is now almost gone thanks to the mysteries we uncovered (dare I say I hope all have been found....).

    If I had to do it again...... I don't know. Due to timelines and schedules there is an order and I never would have known about some of the issues until after the cabinets were ordered. We are not planning on moving and keeping this kitchen till the kids send us to the old folk's home (or the funny farm, which is a better probability if this renovation isn't over soon). There are some things I don't want to replace, cabinets is one. Add to that counter tops (I too have been seduced by SS, but it isn't very budget friendly at this time and may have to go with granite).

    Some ways I cut cabinets costs: I purchased a Rev-A-Shelf mixer lift and the Pull-Out trash cans on my own and I will install them (or my contractor will). This saved me a ton of $$ - by buying and installing the mixer lift on my own I am saving over $500 and the trash cans I am saving over $400. I eliminated the tray dividers in the cabinet above the DO for a savings of over $300. I will also purchase these on my own and install them for much less. I eliminated the pull out drawer for under the sink and will add it later if I find I need it.

    I would explain again to your KD that you would like the same kitchen priced in the other cabinet lines she represents. Perhaps there is another door/finish you would be open to. As my experience has taught me, and palimpsest mentioned, $50K IS NOT a lot of money when you make structural changes. And the one area you can't cut costs (or corners) is with structural issues.

    I would talk with the contractor and ask about possible problems (he won't be able to tell everything) and give you an idea of the cost of possible changes in scope/change orders to the project (a worst case/best case scenario). And make sure he looks in the attic/basement to get the best idea of what is going on in your house. Ask if he wants to poke some holes in the walls you are removing to get a better idea of what he will encounter.

    Good luck - let us know how it goes.

  • bellamay
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    additional point...hopefully you understand that soapstone is pourous and if you have a family it may not be the best choice for you in the long run. We have clients who installed soapstone in various applications and have had negative feedback from most of them concerning waterspotting, foodstains etc. Secondly in a kitchen remodel your cabinets should be the big ticket item. Going with Kraftmaid may be a bad choice....using a lumberyard/homestore to spec cabinets it a somewhat low budget way to go.

  • joepyeweed
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You could save a ton of money if you gave up the soapstone counter and chose a laminate instead. They do make laminates that give a similar look.

    I know its a big sacrifice, but you could probably save enough money to keep the sink bump out.

    Its easier to upgrade the countertop later, than anything else.

  • palimpsest
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    True soapstone is not porous and doesn't stain. If you don't oil it, it does not oxidize as fast and it is a finish that acquires a patina. If you oil it a lot at the beginning it gets very dark because the oxidation process is accelerated. It is a very durable surface but does not look as slick and pristine as granite or quartz, it is definitely more "organic" looking. However, there are a lot of myths about soapstone and there have been various threads on here discussing it. They make woodburning stoves out of it so you can put anything on it, temperature wise.

  • morton5
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think it is worth going to another designer just to get some new ideas. In the current plan, I think that having the sink so far from your range will make for a messy floor. I would swap the positions of the fridge and the range. Also, with your range on an exterior wall, you will be easily able to vent to the outside.

  • pharaoh
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If you like everything else about the KD, and the SS is overbudget, get everything except the SS from her. Handle the counters on your own. Get a supplier and a fabricator. You should be able to come in within your budget.

  • msgreatdeals
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm having the same problem trying to decide on cabinets. The first company is in town. They have been in business since 1946. They have done mostly tract homes I think. The last 5 houses we lived in, they did the cabinets. They are very good and hold up very well. I have a quote of $10,000 and that includes installing them as well. Maple. I got a quote from Wellborn Cherry for $13,500. Merrilat? for $14,000. Last two don't install. Going to try Kraftmaid Venicia next week and that's it!!! I like the big companies because they have tons of choices.

  • weissman
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'll offer a different perspective - splurge - in the long run $3K is not that much over budget and you'll get what you want and enjoy it for a long time without feeling that you compromised. I do agree with the others about buying your soapstone on your own. You're most likely paying the KD a markup for it.

  • Buehl
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We had the same problem w/our cabinets....so, where did we cut costs?

    First, I changed my door style...I went from the most expensive to one of the least expensive. BUT, the drawer fronts & door frames were identical in both styles so I was OK with the change (not thrilled, but OK). Most of my cabinets are drawers anyway, so I got the basic look I wanted. [The main difference b/w the door styles was the center panel...the expensive one had a raised center panel, the less expensive had a flat center panel...but the frames were the same in both styles.]

    Next, we eliminated the BS for now.

    Then, we eliminated the majority of decorative door end panels. The only ones we kept were on the back of the mini-peninsula b/c one of the cabinets was facing there w/doors & a plain panel on the back of the other cabinet would look funny, if not ridiculous. (Our Pet Center cabinet was turned 90o so it open from the back of the peninsula.)

    We also eliminated furniture base, eliminated the Bread Box insert (saved >$300!), and did NOT get our glass for the glass doors & shelves from the cabinet company. We also switched to a stock cabinet for our PR instead of the semi-custom we originally planned on. There were a couple of other things here & there. In the end, we brought our cabinet + BS price down by well over $5,000 (overall we cut out over $7,000...but that included non-cabinet & non-BS reductions as well.)

    To decide what you can do to cut costs, I recommend asking yourself the following questions:

    (1) What is not that important to me and doesn't add functionality? [Candidate for elimination altogether]

    (2) What can I do at a later date? [Candidate for deferring until a later date]

    (3) What can't be done at a later date and I can't live without? [Candidate for keeping and doing now]

  • Maria410
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have to add to what kitchenredo2 says. You will probably need more than 50K in the end. I am spending about 40K on the reno., granite counter, and cabinets. I purchased a small number of stained wood cabinets through a building supplier -- all plywood -- that cost $4.5K so the rest of my costs are construction (materials are included in that number). I took out a non-load bearing wall, removed two ceilings (kitchen and dining room) and the old plaster kitchen walls. Once we had the walls out we learned that the plumbing was not up to code (why would it be in a 1920s home) so I had 2K extra for plumbing that was not anticipated. Do you have a budget for contingencies. People here recommend at least 20%. That is a good number.

    There are usually a lot of things you can do to reduce the cost of the cabinets. If you don't want to change things such as painted wood then my advice is to wait and save more money to get what you want. As anyone can tell you doing a renovation takes a lot more than money (time, energy, stress, etc.) and getting what you really want in the end is very important.

  • venice_2008
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I find it frustrating and indeed woeful when a KD company does not listen to a client and try to find a way to make it work. I hope this is not the case for you.

    With respect to your countertops, this is definitely one area where I would take the specs and get quotes from elsewhere. In my case, my KD worked with only one supplier for each type of material (two, in the case of stone), and their estimates for our various surfaces were shockingly high. Now, I had done a lot of research, so I knew and questioned this, but I think many others simply don't know, so the KD company "gets away" with it. And, I put that in brackets, b/c I genuinely believe there's no evil motive here; I just think they stick with the easy route, and if in the main clients seem OK with it, then there is no motivation to do otherwise.

    In terms of cutting the costs associated with cabinets, not sure if someone has already mentioned this, but doing wider cabinets instead of a couple of smaller ones will cost less, as well as be more functional. And, getting rid of all interior fittings, like cutlery dividers. These can be bought later. Then, there are knobs and pulls -- could look into what she has budgeted for these, and see if you could do better by shopping online. Finally, your mouldings look high. A simpler profile might shave some $$.

    And I would echo those who say don't give up on your painted finish. It sounds like you'd be v. unhappy if you did.

  • bbtondo
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lynne
    Interesting thread. Boy do I remember how I agonized over budget and cuts. I tend to agree with Weissman. In my case I could have gotten a kitchen with some things cut for $40,000 that I liked, or get everything I wanted with no cuts for $50,000. I went with the $50,000. $10,000 is a lot of $$, but I am very glad that I got everything I wanted. The way I justified it for me was this: I'm "pushing 50" and this is my first kitchen renovation that I've ever done. I waited 25 years of marriage to do this. It was a big splurge, believe me! I figured if I don't get what I want now, when will I? I decided to have this kitchen be my first mid-life crisis.

    Anyhow, that was just my thought process. I know everyone is in different situations. DH and I have no kiddies, we both work, etc.

    Can't wait to see what you decide! Good luck!

    Barb

  • ajs_1010
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We're doing a new kitchen on a budget and so I assumed the only way we could afford to do it was with Big Box store cabinets. In fact, we're having them done custom,(Quartersawn mission oak) and our carpenter beat the Big Box prices. Our contractor says this often happens...because they can build to fit rather than having installers spend alot of time custom fitting standard sizes. We gave him him our basic design and worked out the details ourselves and had enough left to pay for the soapstone counters. I'd explore a bit further.

  • PRO
    modern life interiors
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A simple practical solution would be to take the design and price it out with different sources. If the price comes in lower with someone else ask the original kitchen designer to match the price.

    Remember compare apples to apples only.

    This is not about right or wrong or feeling guilty. It is about money and that's it!

    Trust me your kd is also thinking about money and commission. it is a business. It has nothing to do with anything.

    you are a free agent until you make your final decision on paper.

    It doesn't matter what other people think. it is your money and you have to be happy with your decision.

    I wish you the best of luck.

  • kpaquette
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Our kitchen is pretty small so we were limited as to layout options - that said, we went to a chi chi cabinet store that offered 3 lines of cabs and met with their KD. We had her price the medium and high end options - and they were both crazy expensive. She gave us no drawings (for the very reasons mentioned above) but we decided to shop around to compare prices.

    We went to 2 more places, one being HD, and we ended up buying our cabinets there (Thomasville.) In the end the price difference was so great (and this is a summerhouse for us) we couldn't justify the higher end choices. We got the top of the line Thomasville with every bell and whistle and our cabinets came out to 13K. Compared to 20k for the medium line at the first place - I'm not sure if they're apples to apples but it seemed pretty close (all plywood frames, maple doors) and so in our eyes, not worth the extra $$.

    So, I would definitely shop around - take your sketches, see what a new KD has for ideas.

  • palimpsest
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    As I review what the OP said about working with the kitchen designer, it sounds like you worked out the design beforehand and the kitchen designer plugged it in with the available cabinets, with some tweaking. Is that how it worked out?

    One of the responsibilities of a KD, or any designer, is to take the homeowner's wishes and give them something Better than the HO could do on their own. Anybody can cut and paste in design software. I hope she did more than this. Are you going to get some bang for your buck? I have never ended up with a kitchen design that was a rehash of the original plan that the HO came in with. If thats all I did, they wouldnt need me.

    The other thing is that you are already starting out overbudget...have you accounted for the ~20% you will go over in addition?

    One thing you may want to look at is Paperstone or Clipstone countertops in black. Definitely not soapstone but could give you a similar look.

  • shoregirl_veggie
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lovelylynn,
    I've haven't yet offered advice to anyone on this forum, since I didn't think I had the experience to do so. However, I'm going thru a similar situation as you right now. We're also using Bradco and have recently had to cut scope from our kitchen reno to save money.
    I agree with other posters that you should get soapstone quotes from fabricators. We're doing granite and not working thru Bradco for that.
    Our project also involves removing walls. We're doing a small bumpout to allow for a table and small mudroom. The cabinet/granite costs are a much smaller portion of the budget than the other costs (mason, electrician, contractor, etc.)
    Our project as originally planned, called for upgrades to a bathroom and foyer, also. Working with our contractor, we de-scoped those projects to cut the budget. These projects are 'stand-alone' and can be done at a later time.
    Our contractor also asked us to get a separate installation price from Bradco-- he expects that he can save us money there. You might want to consider this, if you haven't already.
    If you take your original design to homedepot, you can probably get a feel for the price difference, if that's all you're looking for. Adding the mouldings and the corbels really adds to the cost, so don't forget to really compare apples to apples.
    I agree with others that you shouldn't compromise on the painted cabinets. I'd rather hold off on the backsplash for a year or so.
    Good luck on your reno.

  • lovlilynne
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow! Great responses, thank you so much for all your thoughtful input.

    Kitchenredo2 - I definite will keep in mind that we may find other issues. When we did what I call our mini kitchen facelift in 1994, we found a rotted sill :-(

    bellamay - I have read the exact opposite about soapstone, that it's very NON porous and VERY family friendly due to the "rough" look. Also, can you say more about why you think KraftMaid is a bad choice?

    Morton5 - I thought about putting the stove in the place of the Refrigerator, but rejected it for a couple reasons. One is that I wouldn't have much counter space next to the stove. In my current kitchen, it's jammed next to a corner and on the right I have 15", and I really would like to have a workspace next to the stove. I use the peninsula that I have, which is in front of the stove, so I have to transport cutting board with cut veggies, meat, etc. from the peninsula to stove. The other reason is that with the refrigerator in the other location, you would come down the stairs looking at a wall - which felt like it would be more boxed in. Final comment - there are no dimensions on the drawing, and I realized that I didn't give any - the main kitchen space is 10' wide and ~9'long. That means that nothing is more than 4' away from each other - or about 3 steps.

    Weissman- thanks for your perspective, I will keep it in mind!

    buehl - thanks for all the tips - I am such a 'T' decision maker (if you ever have done the Myers-Briggs type indicator) = Thinker, and you gave me some great ways to think it through. I definitely can live without the bump out and glass as they don't add any functionality. I can defer a lot of the inside extras.

    Maria410 - yes, my budget SS has a 20% contingency factor. When the contractor comes back with all the other costs, it will automatically figure out the 20% and I'll have to see if I still come in under 50k.

    Venice - do you see anywhere in my design where I could fit in wider cabinets? Due to the configuration, I do not. The only place might be where I have the "buffet" -- it's currently got a 36"w then 24" drawers then 36". The space is so small, that there are no good stretches. But, it's a good tip.

    bbtondo - thanks for your perspective! I have done 2 previous kitchen "facelifts" - mostly decor, but not a complete tear-down. I don't want to use up my mid-life crisis card on this project, but I am in the same boat that this is my forever home, I have a good 10+ years left of kids around, and I want to enjoy cooking and living in this new space. I am not planning on doing it again - the next step will be to spruce up for a sale and that's it!

    ajs - I asked our contractor about custom, but he had nothing. He referred me to current KD. I guess I'm not sure how to go about it, but I definitely going to pursue that as well as big box when I get other prices.

    There definitely is a consensus to 1) do the SS price on my own, and 2) get another price or two on the design.

    I am going to touch base with the contractor to find out when I'll get his estimate. If for some reason all the other work come in 10k or under - I can afford it all - not likely, though.

  • ajs_1010
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    lovlilynne...what part of the world do you live in? My custom guy travels around alot.....if you're close, I could recommend him.

  • danielle00
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    soapstone is completely non-porous. It has a high talc content so it is soft, but it will not stain and it is completely heat-resistant.

    I got really tired of people telling me it is porous-- it is quite the opposite. If you get a harder variety it is also very low maintenance.

  • kpaquette
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    X2 to danielle's response.

    Definitely get prices for soapstone directly from the manufacturer - someone on here recently was quoted more than $100/sq ft installed, when the price from Dorado or Teixeira is more in the $80 range (depending on which stone you choose.) We got ours from Teixeira and they deliver, and depending on where you live will also do the fabrication. In my case the NJ branch travels to RI, where the house is, and I only pay $500 for their two trips (for templating and installation) - and they were still way cheaper than some of the stone I saw offered by kitchen design places. And since my stone was on sale, also cheaper than Dorado.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Teixeira

  • lovlilynne
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ok, dumb question - Buehl, if you are still reading - I cannot figure out what BS stands for (besides the usual :-) Can someone tell me?

  • melanie1422
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Backsplash?

  • olga_d
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Add me as another vote to price the counters on your own. Since the KD would still be doing the cabinets you would get the diagrams for them to use as a basis for the counters. Plus they normally template once the cabs are installed anyway.

    This is what we did - found a counter place on our own (granite in our case). The price was significantly better and I believe the quality of the install was as well.

  • lovlilynne
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi - posting an update - Contractor finally got me his estimate. His cost + cabinets + counter tops (I found a better price at Teixeira) + 20% contingency is under my 50k target.

    I'm debating getting other estimates. I know I should, but I know it will take me weeks. I contacted another contractor, but we can't meet until a week from Friday! Another one called me, he was supposed to call me back this week, and still hasn't. I should probably at least go to Lowe's and get another quote on the cabinets . . . I just want to get it started so that (maybe) it will be done by end of summer . . .

  • alice462
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Has your contractor given you any references to call? When we were "interviewing" GC's, I asked for a list from each -- the one that got the list to me in a timely fashion, i.e. within a few days, ended up being the one who got the job - after calling references on their list and getting glowing reports. This was actually a good indication of how they have handled our entire project -- in a timely and professional manner throughout. Ask for references -- a good, confident GC should be happy to provide those.

    Finding a cabinet maker -- I looked at cabinets "out of the box" for weeks and could not find a style or finish that worked for me. I started calling folks who I knew had done reno's w/in the last five years to ask "would you mind telling me where you got your cabinets?" Sometimes they would say "do you know so and so, they did kitchen, addition, etc". I just called people and introduced myself - most were happy to share this info. and through this "referral" system I found a local cabinet maker (who I didn't know and never would have found on my own - GC was so impressed with his work that has since used him on other jobs) who gave me what I dreamed about (not without compromise along the way) within my budget constraints.

    Soapstone -- have it, love it, priced it on my own and saved significantly. Our variety is "softer" and although we have only been using our kitchen for about a month, I have chips in several edges, especially around the sink. At first I was heartbroken and then reminded myself that we chose this and marble for the "patinas" they would develop over time -- now I use a sharpie to hide them and move on. We are having so much fun cooking in this kitchen together that a nick or two is worth it!

  • karena_2009
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think it might be better to order your own design software and lay out your kitchen yourself. I went to a certified kitchen and bath designer and paid $2,000 for her design, which was crap, plus she had this attitude. I tried to get advice on cabinet colors and she was very unhelpful and would make statements like: "I know you are excited about your kitchen, but that's like putting the horse before the cart". She was very stuck in her ways. I didn't have enough space for my spices, she made very impractical and costly renovation choices (moving a 23-inch wall only to rebuild it four inches over).

    Going to several small cabinet companies drove me crazy because their design process is less than transparent. A lot of them refused to share the cost of a 36-inch super lazy susan up front, a key component to my design. What I'm finding is that the more you are involved with the project, the better you can contain the costs.

    It appears that Better Homes & Gardens has a relatively inexpensive software package that will even let you look at colors.

    I totally understand the pull for the painted cabinets. I am drawn to them as you are.

    Good luck!

  • lovlilynne
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi - good input Alice and Karena, definitely gave me a way to think about it.

    Alice - this contractor has done other work for us (not as big) and also did my brother's kitchen. I will ask for some references, but basically I know him and trust him. He recommended KD, and I've got a good rapport with her. I trust her also, but do feel a little bit if I don't shop around I may regret it. Yesterday I found out that Lowe's and HD is having a sale on KM cabinets (through this forum - yeah!), and I have emailed KD to see if I can take advantage of any of that. If she throws me a bone, I will just go with her and contractor - you both made me see that I should be ok w/it.

    Karena - I tried one of those design programs. I got a trial version and put in one of my proposed designs. I almost jumped out of a window. It's so frustrating. And, they never have all the options you want. I cannot complain one bit about my experience with KD and admire what she has done on the tool.

    Alice, I went out to see your kitchen in the finished kitchen slideshow, but it's not there :-( Where can I see pictures?

  • karena_2009
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lovlilynne,

    I'm sure you'll figure it out. Oddly enough, I have had the best experience so far with the sales associate at Lowe's. She, by far, was the most organized, up front, and actually interviewed me to get a sense for how I planned to use the kitchen. I understand about the software package; there can be a ramp-up time involved. Lowes does have a good deal on Kraftmaid right now. I've had my kitchen priced in both Schuler and Kraftmaid. I still like the Schuler paint finish the best. Schuler and Medallion are the same brand.

    It definitely does pay to shop around.

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