Are you referring to the 216 trim for the housing/cans??

We have 8' ceilings and putting in 5" Juno IC20R housings/cans. Juno tech said could use 3 different trims with these cans: 206, 207, or 216. We ended up with the 206. There are differences-both 206 and 207 take 50 watt max-the 206 is par30 about 3 3/4" wide and the 207 is par 20 about 2 1/2" wide. If I remember think the 216 has a lens covering which makes it suitable for wet places like the bathroom but can take 75 watt max par 30. HTH and hasn't confused you more!!

Could call Juno tech 1-800-367-5866. The guy I talked to was very helpful.

Sorry to hijack -

Chris - what do par20 and par30 mean?

Thx

Sorry Chris - I see that you answered my question in your first post. It's the bulb diameter. So a follow-up question: is there an advantage to the par30 over the par20? Does the larger one spread the light more? Is it cheaper and/or more available?

Thx again.

Then is par30 or par20 better for a kitchen?

Juno tech guy recommended the 206 for us which is what DH is installing as I post this. This is also what remodelfla got for her kitchen. Her post "put me out of my misery and tell me which cans to get" (something like that) was very helpful to me in my decision. The larger one does spread more light because the diameter is bigger. Don't know about price of the different bulbs. We ordered everything from an electrical supply store in Rochester, NY so I could actually see the different trims, sizes, etc. Bulbs were $4.50 each. We got the ones recommended by the store manager-50PAR30LN/H/FL 120V 50W QTZ ME 120V clear lamp 35DEG 14109 Eiko.

Guess it would depend on the size of your kitchen. We are putting in 9 cans-already have a recessed light over the sink. Kitchen opens to DR that has hanging light fixture over the DR table. Our kitchen measures 14 x 13.

Chris -- make sure to post pictures, pretty please?

If all goes well, later today I will post pictures.

Putting in 9 cans with the wheat haze/white trim ring. DH just tested all the cans which are hanging from the ceiling and all lights work. I'm off to the gym and book club so will check back later!!

Chris,

Do you have 8' ceiling?

I was told not to buy the deep cone 206 because it wouldn't be enough light.

First, thank you Chris for your helpful info. I think I am finally starting to understand the different options. Can't wait to see your pics!

Just thought I'd mention that The Great Indoors seems to have decent prices on Juno cans, especially the 5" housing: IC20R is $13.59 (although I might be looking at the wrong thing - there's so many of these dang things - really confusing). The 206WHZ-WH (deep cone wheat haze alzak reflector with white trim ring) is $46.74, about the same as Laner. They are having a 15% off sale right now, although they always seem to have lighting on sale. I've only looked at their website and the selection is limited there, but I know you can special order from them if you have one of these stores near you. Anyway, here it the link to their recessed can selection

Here is a link that might be useful: Great Indoors recessed lighting

My problem is figuring out what to buy for 8' ceiling kitchen and I am wondering why Chris was told to buy 206 and I was told not to buy 206. (Is your ceiling height not 8 ft, Chris?)

Honeysucklevine-Our ceiling height is few inches shy of 8'. When I got home DH had all the cans in and oh my-blinded by the light!! Good thing we're putting in a dimmer. The bulbs you can get for the 206 can be long neck halogen floods (ours) or short neck. Guy at the electrical supply store recommended the long neck as bulb sits lower and gives off more light. On the bulb pkg. there is a diagram that shows diameter/distance in feet for the light that the bulb gives off. For instance with 8' ceiling-flood like mine will cover 5' diameter at the bottom or floor-from the bulb to the counter at about 4.5 feet-will just say 5'-the bulb covers 4' diameter which is why DH spaced the cans 44" apart. There is certainly more than enough light in my kitchen with the 50 watt bulbs. HTH.

pudgybaby-Those prices sound pretty good. laner.com wanted $22.61 each in pkg. of 6 or $26.08 each for less than pkgs. of 6 for the IC20R. galesburgelectric.com wanted $16.98 each plus shipping for the IC20R. We ended up paying $24.43 each from the store-no shipping charge. The 206WHZ-WH trim from the store was $45.50 each. laner.com had them for $46.01 each for 6 or $49.44 each. Think galesburgelectric price was $39.46 each but I have so many prices, model numbers on this piece of paper I can't be sure about this last price on the 206 from galesburg.

I am posting some pics but not completely finished yet. DH has to wait for the ceiling to dry before putting in the wheat haze trim with the white outer ring. I'll post complete pictures when the ceiling is done. Hope this gives you some idea and is helpful.

Juno provides templates for you.

our version of pendant lights!!!

it will look so much better when the wheat haze trim is in

this shows that the long neck bulb sits lower in the housing giving off more light.

We were worried that we wouldn't have enough light but I have to tell you that was not the case for us. All in all, think Juno tech and electric supply store manager and even others on this forum and in lighting forum were very helpful.

When I talked to Juno they told me to get 216 for 8' ceilings and they told you to get 206? Makes me nervous to pull the trigger.

Should I just buy the 216s and pray? (biting my nails)

Here's some pics to help.

{{!gwi}}
This is the 206 deep cone reflector trim-can use long neck or short neck bulbs so can make adjustments. Disregard the black inside trim-mine is wheat haze which has been recommended here and on lighting as the go to trim-disappears into the ceiling??

{{!gwi}}
This is the 216 enclosed trim. If you look closely you can't see up into the trim due to the lens.

{{!gwi}}
This is the 207 cone reflector trim. It has in this picture a silvery interior trim.

I talked to 2 different guys at juno as I was confused like you. One guy recommended the 206, another the 216. Steve at laner recommended the 206 or 207 for kitchen-216 good for bathroom. Manager at store recommended the 206. remodelfla got the 206 and in her post think she said that's what she was advised to get-she also talked to juno tech.

Only you can decide what you like best and what is going to work for you. You may want to try to find remodelfal's post-it had pics from other posters and lots of good advice. Thread was called something like "put me out of my misery and tell me what cans to get."

Hope this has helped and not confused you even more. Who would think lighting could be such a PITA!!!!! I had a pounding headache over this part of the kitchen remodel.

Did you happen to hear from any of those people why 216 is enclosed? (pros/cons)

I did not know 216 was enclosed. I don't like heat so this might be good or bad.

Like you I heard 206 from one juno guy and 216 from another juno guy.

It's enclosed to keep moisture out. That's why it's good for bathrooms. Guess it's just a matter of style preference when all is said and done. Do you have any stores close to you that have the junos on display?? That may be the best way to decide. Closest ones to us were in Fredonia and Rochester so a bit of a drive but it was worth the extra aggravation to be happy with my decision. Another reason I decided to go with the 206 instead of the 216 was that I was paying $$ for that wheat haze trim and I wanted to be able to see it!

No, there are none on display where I live.

That's a really good point about being able to see the wheat haze.

Now, did anyone tell you that 206 would be too dim? (Juno guy said that to me.) Still is worrying me, actually.

I noticed that Laner doesn't carry the 216 so it made me wonder if that is a trim that isn't commonly used.

My DH is in the construction business and he thinks that the 5" cans with 50 watt bulbs will be plenty of light. He put in 9 of them. With the 216 you can use a 75 wattPAR30 bulb so in theory that would be more light but then you have the lens enclosure so I really don't know. The guy from laner said they don't carry the 216 because it's not a popular order but he did say he could get it for me. Initially I was leaning towards the 216s also but changed my mind and went with the 206. But that's my style preference.

If you use the long neck bulbs instead of the short neck with the 206 the bulb sits further down almost even with the bottom of the can so it sheds more light. The only other lighting I have in my kitchen is the recessed one over the sink. Guess it depends on how much light you want to have.

How about posting this on the lighting forum??

I just tried calling Juno customer service, but they are closed for the day. I will call tomorrow morning and ask the difference between the 206 and 216 trims and light output.

Chris: Your lights look fantastic! I wonder if they will be even brighter once you get the reflectors in? Thanks for letting us know that you're getting lots of light at 44" spacing - that helps! My ceilings will also be just shy of 8 feet (right now they are just under 7.5 feet - ugh).

Honeysucklevine: did the Juno guy ask you how many lights you would have in your kitchen and how big it is? Maybe that's the difference - you need more wattage because you have fewer lights? Just guessing.

Not to confuse the issue, but I am also wondering about the 204 trim, which according to the spec sheet takes a 50W par30 bulb. Is this like the 206 but not deep cone so it can't take a long neck bulb? I will ask Juno, but if anyone knows, please fill me in.

pudgybaby-Think you're right. I didn't check that one out at the store but it appears from the juno site that the 204 is a shallower cone than the 206-it's described as a downlight trim. Don't know if you could use both long and short neck bulbs in the 204?? It will be interesting to hear what juno tech tells you-maybe we'll get a 3rd recommendation!! Please let us know what you find out. It's too late for me to make any changes but it will be good info for others who haven't decided yet. It's nice of you to say the lights look fantastic but the trims aren't in yet and the ceiling needs to be repaired and repainted.

Right now DH only has one of the recessed cans on in the kitchen and it's pretty bright in there. Will probably post finished pics in a few days.

Forgot- the reason I was posting now is that I looked up the specs for the IC20R. It states that trims 215 and 216 are wet location approved for covered ceiling applications WHEN USED WITH OUTDOOR RATED LAMPS.

It is still worrying me that Juno guy told me 206 would be too dim.

Juno guys and I did not discuss number of cans at all, just 206 vs 216. They didn't mention 204.

I posted already in the lighting forum but so far responses are "are you in california" and "halogens are not green and may become scarce later." Nothing about 216 trim yet.

Well, I called Juno, and I don't know if this is going to help or not, but the tech (who I didn't think was all that helpful) said the 216 is more universal in that it can take more lightbulbs.

He told me that there is NO LENS over the 216 trim, but it sure looks like there is in the pics, although maybe the problem is that they are showing a white reflector. The 'enclosed' on the 216 means at the top of the reflector. he said you can't see up into it, but I'm not sure what that means.

Finally, he said that the difference between the 204, 206, 216, etc trims is personal preference and the light bulbs they take, and find a showroom to look at them. I'm not sure I am going to be able to find a showroom with the various styles, but I am going to try Friday.

I did a google image search for one of the 216 alzak trims. I am linking one although of course they could have the wrong photo, but it does not appear to have a lens. It really wouldn't make sense to have a lens over an alzak reflector, would it?

Here is a link that might be useful: pic of 216c-wh?

Just got off the phone with Phil from juno tech. He said trim choice is a matter of personal preference. Most popular 206 and 207. The beam spread on the 206 will be wider than on the 207-206 50WPAR30 vs. 207 50WPAR20-therefore more light with 206 than 207. 204 no option for long neck or short neck bulbs but takes same 50WPAR30 as the 206 so amount of light should be same. The 204 has a shorter area than the 206's deep cone so bulb sits like a long neck would in the 206. Lastly, the 216's enclosure is way up by the socket-moisture lock-used most often in wet locations-don't have to use outdoor rated lamps if installing in a non wet location. 216 is not a deep cone like the 206 so no long neck v. short neck options for bulbs.

Steven Dorst at laner.com told me on 3/3 that he had 15 of the 216WHZ-WH trims $31.50 each-don't know about shipping charges. They don't normally sell this trim but could get more from juno if needed. Have to go to http://www.laner.com/specord.htm if you want to special order the 216 from laner.

Jeremy Klapp at galesburelctric sent me a e-mail pricing the 216WHZ-WH
at $39.88 each plus shipping.

From this what I have learned is that the 206 suits me best as I like having the option to do long or short neck bulbs with this trim's deep cone-reflects more. The 216 is a nice choice also-cone isn't as deep as the 206 but you can use 75WmaxPAR30 so more light?? The 207-out of the running for me as beam spread less-therefore less light than the 206. The 204 may work fine-beam spread same as 206-just not as deep cone as the 206 so no long vs. short neck bulb option.

Only negative to the 206WHZ-WH is that it's the most expensive of the trims!! Prices I got ranged from $63.95, $39.46, $39.88, $31.50, and $45.50 that we paid but got the IC20R cheapest so maybe spent under $100 more buying from the electric supply store but no shipping charges and an actual store to see the displays and a go to place if there were problems with the order, etc.

honeysucklevine-If you decide on the 216 think you will be happy-I hope!! If you are afraid your kitchen is too dark maybe the 216 is for you. Ours should be totally up and running by the end of the week and I can post back to let you know how the light is-will post pics too. Let us know what you decide!!

Awesome summary, Chris. Thanks!

Chris, thanks for posting that info that you found it at Laner and the price.

I decided to go ahead and buy the 216s and pray. I got a quote from Laner that was $45.68. Too high. They did price match a competitor and I bought it from them. Hopefully it will all work out.

Honeysucklelevine - we too are considering the Juno 216 reflector/trims for 5" cans in our 8' kitchen ceiling. Are yours installed yet? If so, how are they? One thing that is giving me pause is that the Juno customer service guy explained to me that the 216's require long-necked bulbs, or alternatively, the shorter-necked bulbs will sit high in the 216 cone and thereby not have as good beam spread. Or alternatively, I can buy and install a socket extender in each 216 can and then use the shorter-necked bulbs. Just wondering if this has been an issue for you, and whether you are satisfied with the 216's. TIA.

Honeysucklelevine - we too are considering the Juno 216 reflector/trims for 5" cans in our 8' kitchen ceiling. Are yours installed yet? If so, how are they? One thing that is giving me pause is that the Juno customer service guy explained to me that the 216's require long-necked bulbs, or alternatively, the shorter-necked bulbs will sit high in the 216 cone and thereby not have as good beam spread. Or alternatively, I can buy and install a socket extender in each 216 can and then use the shorter-necked bulbs. Just wondering if this has been an issue for you, and whether you are satisfied with the 216's. TIA.