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ni_2006

distance between upper cabs and base cabs

ni_2006
16 years ago

Our distance etween the floor and the ceiling is 89.5 (quite low!!). The KD mentioned that he can get us we can go with 36 inch uppers and a 1 inch molding so that we can go all the way to the ceiling. He mentioned that we can have 16 inches between the upper and base cabinets, and don't need 18 inches. We are getting frameless cabinets and will have undercabinet lighting.

Is 16 inches enough space? My gut feeling tells me tht we should we just go for 30 inch uppers, with a bigger crown, and 18 inches beween the upper and base cabs. Any opinions?

Comments (23)

  • dmank
    16 years ago

    I personally don't like the 'cramped' feeling of just 16". My cab maker messed up and made my cabinets too high initially with just 17" in between. I hated it and he fixed the problem.

    In fact, I now have 20" between. We have no windows in our kitchen, so it does help open it up.

    My husband and I are also tall.

    But, my husband thinks the cabs are too tall!!

    I think it's just a matter of opinion. One of my design books does say 16" is fine.

  • fran1523
    16 years ago

    I only have 14 1/2" of space between uppers and lowers. This was a 1970's kitchen and I only had new doors put on instead of replacing the cabinets. I also have under cabinet lights but no trim in front of them. Actually it doesn't bother me, and I don't find that it looks cramped; However, you might want to check on the height of your counter top appliances such as coffee pots. I use a mini 5-cup pot so it doesn't matter.
    '

  • quantumkitten
    16 years ago

    Countertop appliance height is an obvious concern. Another issue is whether you will want to hang things in your backsplash area. I invested in a backsplash rail system, but had to forgo some of the options offered for it that are too tall for even my standard 18" of space. Also, a couple of my longer-handled utensils are too long to hang from the rails. I wouldn't have wanted more than 18" of space, as that would have placed the cabinets too high for 5'5" me, but I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't want much less than 18" either, as I think that starts to be limiting in terms of space for countertop and hanging items. If you know you won't be using anything that needs more than 16" of clearance, then 16" should be fine. I don't think it would look weird or anything. Just be sure to think about everything you'll want to have on the countertop and in the backsplash area, and plan accordingly.

  • paul_ma
    16 years ago

    ni,

    My ceilings are like yours. My old kitchen had a soffit besides! And about 14" between counter and uppers. (No more)

    I was trying to go with 36", but that would reduce the space below 18". I ended up going with 33" uppers. At that I have a max of perhaps 3" (maybe a bit more) between my cabs and the ceiling.

    One thing to consider. You can't just take 89.5 - 36 - 36 = 17.5. Most likely neither your floor nor your ceiling is quite level, but your cabinets need to be. So the height you have to work with is between the highest point of the floor and the lowest point of the ceiling. In my case this lost me about 1.5". (And this isn't an old house.)

    Also, if you want undercabinet lights then you will want a light rail, which will cost you another 1.5 or 2".

    Also, consider how you want to handle the transition between your cabs and the ceiling. If they are very close, then variations in the gap will be quite visible. Mine is visible if you look hard, but not terribly obvious. Its harder if you want crown molding. It can't be scribed to the ceiling. You will need a vertical piece behind it so that the variation can be taken at the bottom of the molding rather than the top.

    Luckily my cabs were available in 3" increments.

  • igloochic
    16 years ago

    We have 15 here (rental) and I hate it. It's just too low. FOr instance the knife block is almost touching the upper cabinets (longer knife handles). It feels cramped when you're doing dishes (under the cabinets and pulled out just a bit but not enough). I'm going to raise them up at least 2 inches when we redo this kitchen, and raise the cabinet over the sink even higher (I have about 8 to work with on top).

    In our real kitchen I went with 19" which gives a nice clearance. I wanted the height because I have extra deep uppers (not way extra but 15" verses the usual 12") and didn't want a wine bottle to feel cramped if t was on the counter. (We drink enough wine to worry about that kind of thing).

    If I were you I'd take as much height between as possible. :)

  • kas81057
    16 years ago

    i've had it both ways and would go for more, but i also think it is workable at 16"

    my original kitchen was enclosed and dark and having little space btwn uppers and counters added to the "darkness"

    my new kitchen is open and light and now i have 18" of space btwn uppers and counter which i love

    i think it depends on the "openness" of the room and the color of your cabs and if the space will then be liveable. If I had had a light colored cabinet with open space and the shorter distance I may have been ok with it; it was more of all things combined.

    I do know that the upper portion of my cabinets are basically unused/non functional since i need to pull out a stool to get them.

    During our reno we ended up with a deeper soffit to move all pipes to and i had to make the cabinets shorter to keep the extra distance btwn the cabs and counters; something we wanted because of what we had before, but not sure that it was absolutely necessary.
    But i will add, my undercounter lighting is halogen and i am glad for the distance since i have already sustained a significant burn in just brushing against the light so if you are doing the same, the greater distance the better.

  • raehelen
    16 years ago

    I think the advantage of having more counter space and not feeling cramped would outweigh the extra 6" in your cabinets. That's not really enough to get much more useable storage space, and IF you want undercabinet lights, 16" is just not gonna be enough room. Dealing with appliances on counters is an everyday occurance, and you could be cursing under your breath each time you try to squeeze the coffee maker out, or scorch the bottom with your toaster oven... or...., but you'll never miss not having the extra 6" in your cupboards, and this way you can also have a decent sized crown molding on top too!

  • friedajune
    16 years ago

    I feel the opposite of Raehelen! (sorry Raehelen, but that's what these forums are for..). I think you WILL miss the 6" of storage - it doesn't sound like much, but it is. You can NEVER have too much storage, believe me. As to the appliances, why don't you measure your countertop appliances and see how tall they are. The coffeemaker and toaster will likely fit easily. Perhaps a mixer wont' fit, but a lot of people don't like those out on the counter anyway.

    Also, in my area at least, the realtors want to see the taller cabinets, as they believe they are a selling point in listing the home.

    Also 30" cabs may make it difficult for you to fit some taller items like tall glasses, vases, cereal boxes, etc.

    Finally, I personally am not a fan of a lot of molding. I know that's just my taste, but it's my $.02. And the molding is very pricey, especially considering it's just decorative and doesn't add utility to the kitchen. I prefer for a kitchen a smaller molding. In my last kitchen, I had 8' ceilings and 42" cabinets, and small molding. So you can see that I valued the cabinet storage over the space between counter and upper cabs. In my current kitchen I have 9' ceilings, cabs to the ceiling, and 18" between counters and upper cabs, with 2" of the 18 taken by the undercab lighting and light strip. HTH.

  • cpanther95
    16 years ago

    Do most of you generally hike up the uppers an inch if you are putting in a light rail molding to keep the 18" spacing?

  • chefkev
    16 years ago

    Another vote for at least 18". I'm only 5'8" and I feel the 16" makes it harder to see what your doing and makes it feel cramped on top of not being able to fit some appliances and storage items.

  • lmarletto
    16 years ago

    Our ceiling is 91" and we will have 18" between uppers and counter. I think much less than that would make an already squatty space seem squattier. I wouldn't want more because I think it would make the uppers too high for me. (I'm 5'4".) We will have 15" under the microwave shelf, but that's one 27" wide cab at the end of a frig pantry run.

    Too bad you can't get 33" uppers. I thought they were pretty common these days. That would allow a narrower crown, which would probably be more in proportion to your room height, and give you a bit more flexibility in positioning your shelves.

  • napagirl
    16 years ago

    One thing to remember, you can gain a lot more storage simply by adding another shelf to each cabinet, thereby eliminating empty space above the items that are on the shelf. I did this many years ago when I had new cabs built over the penninsula. Lost 6" x 8', and everything that came out, went back in.

    Totally agree with chefkev - 18", especially if you're tall (or wearing heels).

  • paul_ma
    16 years ago

    cpanther95,

    My spacing is 18 1/4" to the cabinet, 17" to the light rail.

    I don't have experience yet as to how good that is. But I am certain I will be happy because it is a lot more than I had before.

  • muscat
    16 years ago

    I'd sacrifice cabinet space for working counter top height. I had 16" of space before, and I went to 18". I love it.

    If you have to go with 16" of countertop height, do you have room for (and can your cabinet maker provide) deeper lowers, so that you have more counter space that is not under the cabinets?

  • celticmoon
    16 years ago

    My perimeter was 16 (14.5 with light rail) and I really really, really disliked it. So much so that I ripped out the wall cabinets flanking the range entirely, and raised another run to 25 (23.5 with rail) -my short friends hate that. And ripped out yet another upper along the last run to open up part of the baking center visually. And I still dislike working at that run where it is still 16/14.5.

    So um, I guess I'd vote for 18 over 16. Or more.

  • ni_2006
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    I will have a lot of storage space and can go with 30 inch wall cabinets. I do think that having 5 or 6 inches of crown molding will look a bit cheesy for my low ceilings, but I would rather have that than going with 36 inch wall cabinets and ending up with a narrow space between the base and wall cabinets.

    Unfortunately the cabinets we have selected don't have 33 inch wall cabinets. I will talk to the KD and see if we could switch to a different brand that has 33 inch wall cabinets for a similar price.

    Do any of you have 30 inch wall cabs that go all the way to the ceiling with 5-6 inches of crown molding? Can you please share some pictures?

    Thanks!!

  • raehelen
    16 years ago

    Kitchen crown molding is often done in two pieces (not just one angled piece as 'regular' crown molding can be. So, there will be a 'flat L shaped piece' that is attached to your cabinets that is perpendicular to the ceiling -same plane as your cabinet, then the angled piece gets attached to that flat piece, so that the actual angled crown doesn't have to be 5-6", it can be 3-4" if you prefer. This allows for the angled piece to be moved up and down on the flat piece to fit the irregularities in most ceilings.

    Clear as mud? :>)

  • bmorepanic
    16 years ago

    If you put 2.5 inch light rail on the bottom and 3 inch crown on the top, with 30" cabinets the spacing between the countertop and the bottom of the light rail will be approximately 19".

    What paul_ma said about it varying from point to point around the room is very true. If it were my kitchen, I'd wait until the new room was prepped and the base cabinet install level line was drawn before final choice. You can always get a little more molding at the last minute to "use up" the inch by extending the top rail...

    I don't care for narrowed gaps between cabinet and countertop. I would rather have the working room. If I am ever lucky enough to have a large kitchen, the uppers will be set with 22-24" gap.

  • ni_2006
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    I really like the idea of having a light rail at the bottom of the wall cabinet to hide the undercabinet light. Please forgive my ignorance, but does the light rail come already attached to the wall cabinet, or does it come separately and require the installer to attach it?

  • hmsweethm
    16 years ago

    ni 2006 -- as to your question about whether cabinets come with the light rail: It depends on who is making your cabinets. For many cabinet companies, it is an option. My advise to you is to make sure you resolve that issue as you are designing your kitchen and cabinets, and not afterward, like we did.

    While we love our finished kitchen, our cabinet maker messed up and didn't account for our undercabinet lighting, which was mentioned in our contract and everything. The electrician installed the lighting like he was supposed to, but we are still fighting with the cabinet maker to install a rail to hide the lighting. We just want a simple inch-and-a-quarter plain rail around the bottom of the cabinets to hide the lights (that's how much they show). We may end up doing it ourselves. Our cabinets are 18 inches above our counter, so an inch and a quarter won't be so much to take away from that, although I would have preferred that it would be that much space after the light rail. It was one of a million details in our house remodel that I didn't pay enough attention to, and now here we are, but I think it's going to be okay.

    So bottom line is, decide on that now, before it is too late and you are left with few choices. Make sure everyone is on board: cabinet maker/company, electrician, etc.

  • hmsweethm
    16 years ago

    Oh, something else: I have noticed that some cabinets manage to hide the lighting without having a separate and attached light rail. The cabinet maker can design them so that the sides of the cabinets and the doors in front come down far enough to hide them (I'm not explaining this right). What I mean is that the in those kinds of cabinets, the bottom of the cabinets is recessed in from the sides and fronts, enough to hide the lights. Can anyone explain this better?

    But again, it is a decision best made before you order cabinets.

  • ni_2006
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    I now understand what a light rail molding is. For those of who got the light rail molding installed later (vs. those whose cabinets were already designed with them), are you able to see the seam where the light rails attaches to the cabinets? Do you have any pictures, by any chance?

  • brunosonio
    16 years ago

    16" is a tad too short. Measure your appliances such as your blender and your large mixer, any canisters or olive oil bottles, or anything else you might want to put under there, even temporarily while you cook. You'll find at least 17" is preferable. That one inch can make all the difference.

    Our ceilings are that low also...are your cabinets custom or semi-custom so you can tailor exactly how tall you want your uppers? I think we went with 28 or 29 inch uppers, which allowed us a 1 inch light rail and the clearance between upper and lowers.

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