Brickeyee, I was NOT kidding. I read it on the Internet (GW AAMOF), so it must be ture! .... right?

$700 difference, daggett? Oie... I'll dig out the drop-in option from the trash can and put it on the table again!

Well, actually, I've been thinking about our future sink for a few days. I'm now leaning towards a black Silgranit or Swanstone sink (see this thread on sinks types). I have been contemplating using black strips of granite in the front and in the back to make the framing (an idea I talked about in this thread) and to make the countertop look more interesting -- not to mention cut down the installation cost.

Oh, I should have asked in the first post! Anyone who has a drop-in sink you think that looks good in your kitchen, can you pleeeeease post photos?

Do you want to see our bathroom sinks? A completely different look than a kitchen but I'll take a pic if it'll help.

i agree that asking for a photo is a good thing to do.

In your first post you asked for photos too.

Drop ins have a fold in the sheet metal about 1/4" from the edge. This was to give it some strength and straightness, or else the sheet metal might warble and wave and not reflect light all in a straight line.

Blanco and others now make a "MicroEdge" drop in which is just 1mm thick flat steel, not folded. The sheet of steel is flat. I find the edge is a bit rough; I mean I can feel the cut 1mm sheet when I run my finger along the edge of the sink on the counter. In showrooms. I suppose that silicone is expected to be there, and that one will never feel the edge, but I doubt it because I wouldn't want silicone to bump up higher, not even by 0.1mm.

If I had it, I would file down the sharp edge/corner, just a bit, and sand it. A few minutes per side.

Ikea now has this too, on one or two of their sinks. In their case it's about 1.5mm thick and it tapers at the edge, and I believe it's sanded too, which makes it all much more "finished" i.e. better in my opinion, because fingers don't feel the cut edge.

These two makes are worth looking at. I think they resolve all of your concerns.

--

About the gunk: yes, underneath the stainless, in the dark and invisible to the occupant, is gunk. This is mold. Not a lot, but it is there. Actually, often there is a big mold colony there, but who cares, it'll never happen to you, now, will it?

You listed
"Pros:
- Easier installation, thus lower cost
- No chipped edges
- Easy to replace in case of the need
" I agree.

You listed
"Cons:
- visible on the granite surface, thus disrupting the flow
- gunk may build up at the seam along the edge
- they tend to look less elegant (? not sure on this one)
" As mentioned, there is gunk underneath the steel even if you clean the visible stuff. There may be none visible. It's not a big deal. During installation it is feasible to smoosh out silicone so that it covers the whole area and becomes then a "continuous adhesion layer" instead of a bead.

For the record, I'll write that the Cons you listed are all not big, if you find a sink that you think is elegant enough to be yours.

Hth

Sure. Welcome photos of any nice looking drop in sink! Thank you.

p.s. 1mm thickness is an approximation.

flat, not folded.

I have a Kohler white Brookfield and a white Mayfield in my laminate countertop--does that count? Doesn't bother me at all. I'm glad not to have to bend down another 2 inches to reach bottom and the white is a part of the room decor.

Here is a link that might be useful: drop in sink on laminate

Under the edge of every drop in sink (self rimming or not) there is ALWAYS a lot of crud.

I had a customer that insisted she could have "nothing under there" since she used a knife to clean under the edge of the trim ring on both sides (there were scratches to prove her claim).

She was abhorred when we removed the sink and trim rim during the demo to see what was still left.

A nice black line of crud.
At least with a correctly installed and caulked under-mount the sink is sealed tightly to the underside of the surface with only a small seam.

I have still seen the caulk itself be stained, but not nearly as much buildup of anything since the surface of the caulk can at least be cleaned (and it is not a very large line).

davidro1, thanks for the detailed post. You posted it while I was composing mine and I didn't see it right away. I should go to showrooms to check out the sinks and feel them under my fingers. Oh, did I ask for photos in my first post? Guess I was smarter than I thought. :)

Florantha, thanks for the photo! Looks like your remodeling is well underway (unless that was an old photo).

Brickeyee, thanks for the warning. I'll keep that in mind. I've also used knifes on my sinks and faucets to get in the tiniest seams.

Not really a drop in sink, but it is a top mount sink on stone (soapstone). I did the caulking this morning, so it finally looks halfway decent.

Don't have a problem with the dish drainer, as it sit over the dishwasher. The soapstone extends over the sink so it drains right in.

I was not considering stone specifically because I did not want to deal with installing an undermount sink (DH was against an undermount) so finding this one allowed me to get stone and keep DH happy too.

Macybaby,

Looks very nice. Thanks for posting the pic.

Correction: with the MicroEdge sinks and flat edge Ikea sinks, i think that this applies: During installation it is feasible to smoosh out silicone so that it covers the whole area and becomes then a "continuous adhesion layer" instead of a bead.

I'm sorry I can't find a photo, but I had a drop-in sink on granite countertop in my previous home. It was a white Kohler Mayfield and I'm not sure exactly what kind of granite it was but it was gray/pinkish-brown/white. I really liked it for the 4 years I lived there. We bought the house with that set-up so it wasn't my decision, but I really had no trouble with maintenance and cleaning on the drop-in. I never noticed anything horrible around the rim, although I will admit that it was easy to miss dirt along the back edge if you didn't make the tiny effort required to look back there (ahem, DH).

I should say, I am no germophobe, and I really don't care if there's some sort of gunk beneath the sink lip that you'd never see unless you un-install the thing. But I had no visible crud problem, at least in those 4 years. My parents' have a drop-in that's been in place for about 30 years, also no problem. If it were going to save me $700, I'd probably install another one!

I live in a home that was originally built in the late 1800's and added on to periodically. I recently replaced the old formica with Granite Venitian Gold. The sink in the house is a 43" SS Elkay triple drop-in over 20 yrs old..they still make this sink which retails at over $2,000. I love the sink and didn't want to replace with a smaller one in order to have an undermount. Also didn't want to spend $2,000 just to have a new one and it would still be drop in. So I cleaned up the old one and dropped it in. I love it. No granite edges to chip with pots and pans. No problem with cleaning either. My new DCS gas SS stove is a drop in also, so it has the same look as the sink and fits in great with the older traditional look of the kitchen. I haven't had any luck posting pics, so I am unable to do so.

There are pros and cons to both...I believe that your kitchen should be what you like and what is functional.

I have attempted to attach a link to a pic of my drop-in sink on granite countertop. Hope this works.

Here is a link that might be useful:

the ikea sink is called Bredskar. In addition to the flat steel (tapered) on the top, inside the bowl it has a small radius in corners. Apparently that is "new" and harder to manufacture than the wider more rounded corners.

Here is a link that might be useful: one is 22

like the Ikea sink mentioned my Mom used a deckless drop-in (hers is in laminate but you get the idea). I think this would be a great look on stone. Lots of new builds have drop-ins in stone because it is cheaper not to have the customized cut out for the sink. My Mom's kitchen is very ordinary but this remains one of those little details that made me glad we fussed.

Thanks everyone for more photos and inputs. It's good to know that drop-in sinks do not necessarily mean nasty gunk around the rim. Hmmm... so far, I have not seen a black silgranit/Swanstone sink, which is what I'm interested in right now. Hmmm...

It's easy to see a black silgranit/Swanstone sink.

Protection against gunk = A continuous adhesion of silicone under the sink rim.

A silgranit topmounted to the counter is good, imho.

If your sink were stainless, with the typical rim that has a little air space under it, I would tell you that
there IS gunk, but it is manageable.
There is gunk under the rim, but you may feel it's not a problem.
There is gunk under the rim, and it might (or not) feed a line of gunk around the outside edge. Or it might be the source of recurring gunk on the visible side. Which you may wipe off, clean off, scrape off, bleach off, or do whatever you may wish to do.

I didn't end up getting this sink, but really really love it. Sleek and modern and stunning. imo

Here is a link that might be useful: Blanco MicroEdge

How much does that Blanco cost, research queen? It's good looking.

I really like the Blanco microedge sinks too. I am contemplating the Precision line to put on the marble counter to protect the edges from any pots dinging it. I like the one research queen posted too but the sink is only 20" which is not large enough for a clean up sink..would be perfect for a prep sink though!

brickeyee posted twice on Tuesday about gunk. There is non visible gunk in the air space under stainless steel rims that are folded (e.g. as in caryscott's post).

a flat plane under the rim might not ever have any gunk.
Silicone it continuously (microedge or flat edge silgranit sinks or ...).

Does anybody have any experience with (or have pictures of) the Franke Oceania "topmount"--it looks like it is inset into the counter. I guess it acts like an undermount, but installs like a drop-in like the Blanco micro-edge sinks.

"Protection against gunk = A continuous adhesion of silicone under the sink rim. "

It never lasts very long.

florantha, I don't remember the price, but it was expensive. I am in canada, and if I am remembering correctly it was somewhere in the $1500-$2000 range for a 30" (33"?). Hope I am not steering you wrong - I normally remember these details, but in this instance, I don't.

muskokascp, it comes in many sizes. here is the link to all the sizes it comes in. This is for the Precision line. They have other microedge sins as well - play around on the Blanco site to see what I mean.

Here is a link that might be useful: microedge sizes

http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?41174-How-to-seal-kitchen-sink-to-countertop
a new thread started today at a plumbers' site, mentioning granite and overmount sinks (drop-in).

Here is a link that might be useful: How-to-seal-kitchen-sink-to-countertop

Macybaby,
I like your kitchen / sink! What sink is that? How high is that counter? Is it lower than normal or is the dishwasher higher?

Mudworm, I really think it depends on the style of your kitchen. If you have a sleek / modern kitchen then I'd go undermount. If you have a more traditional kitchen then a white drop-in looks good. To save on install (if it really does cost $700 for an undermount install) you can get a farmhouse sink and run a slab up to each side and a small strip along the back. Ceramic farmhouse sinks cost about $700, but you can get a really sleek stainless one for ~$400.

There is a granite place just north of where I live that does the drop in sink in the granite. They say they've patented the process they use. I really like it--it has a really nice look and clean lines. They use what I would call a low edge profile stainless sink, then they basically grind (miter?) down the granite around the sink opening just enough so the lip of the sink is flush with the countertop. The overlap of the lip of the sink is about 1/2" and this is where the lip of the sink sits. Then they just drop it in, brace from below & caulk around edges. Doing a google search for the company, I found a link to the sink type--it's called a 'gravity sink'. Here's the majority of kitchen sink photos off their site. Hope this helps!

Mudworm,
Here's my anthracite (black) Silgranit sink. It has a slightly negative reveal, and I don't have a gunk problem. It's huge, I love it, and I would never go back to a drop-in or stainless.

natschultz: I really think it depends on the style of your kitchen. If you have a sleek / modern kitchen then I'd go undermount. If you have a more traditional kitchen then a white drop-in looks good.

I have a feeling that our house is somewhere in between -- not too contemporary and not traditional either. So far, I haven't been able to envision a farm house sink in our kitchen; otherwise, the problem would be solved.

mydreamhome: ...I found a link to the sink type--it's called a 'gravity sink'....

Thanks mydreamhome for posting the photos! I haven't seen a gravity sink in any store (yet). At this point, I have my mind set on a Silgranit (or similar) sink, and they rims all invariable look pretty thick. Guess those cannot be granite sinks.

warmfridg: Here's my anthracite (black) Silgranit sink...

Glad to hear that you love your Silgranit sink. You have the type I was looking into the other day. The undermount does make the countertop surface look so neat! Sounded like you disliked drop-in sinks with a passion. I think so far, I've only heard of one person on GW (by username mabeldingeldine) who has a top mount Silgranit sink (in this thread). Unfortunately, I have not seen a more complete photo of the sink.

Hi Mudworm. In response to your request for photos of my sink:

One reason I chose this particular sink is that in the future, I could install it as an undermount.

I'm sure people here are sick of my tiny-budgeted kitchen makeover, but if you want to see more photos I have some posted to flickr.

Here is a link that might be useful: more kitchen photos

mabeldingeldine, thanks sooooo much for taking and posting the photos!!! I really appreciate your help. That kitchen is full of living! Love it! That on-site supervisor is the best. :)

I think the drop in Silgranit sink looks just fine in your kitchen on that beautiful countertop. Currently, our kitchen has a SS sink on Laminate. But I think it has that "fold" that davidro1 was talking about, so I can still wipe things off into the sink. But the rims in the Silgranit sink (that I plan to get) look more abrupt, so I can see that my habit has to change if I want to do top mount. I feel more informed now. I just think about it more need to talk to the fabricator about the options.

Thanks everyone who provided inputs!

We are having a Quartz countertop pit in. I have been looking at undermount sinks. The dimensions are usually about 20inch width and our counter is only 23 inches in width so it is doubtful that it will fit. This is something we never considered. I had heard you should never put an over mount on Quartz. Seeing your pictures has made me realize it can still look good. Thank you.

Macybaby- I love the sink! :)

Everyone has their own preferences, but I would much rather have the white sink like Macybaby's than any of the under mounts. It looks more vintage and it makes a statement.

Under mount sinks are probably far more practical, but just not my style.

And these seem very popular...and probably not nearly as practical as an under mount sink.

Also, for a vintage look...check out this link MamaGoose posted on another thread. Love that last picture...what a sink :)

http://www.finehomebuilding.com/pdf/IH013044.pdf

I am a fabricator.

This is my experience. Drop-in sinks have a dirt trap at the joint between the countertop and the sink. As many noted there is usually some nasty stuff under the sink flange when a drop is sink is removed.

An undermount sink can also have a dirt trap depending on the sink and the skill of the fabricator. Any place the countertop overhangs the sink is a potential trap. This trap gets a LOT bigger if the radius on the corner formed by the vertical sink wall and the top flange is large. Most undermounts have a very small radius to minimize the trap area. (the larger radius is the reason it is a bad idea to undermount a drop-in sink.)

A quality fabricator will minimize the overhang of the countertop with respect to the sink opening. SS and composite sinks are manufactured to very tight tolerances such that a 1/16" overhang is adequate which leaves very little space for a dirt trap. Cast iron sinks require a larger overhang to insure the countertop covers all of the sink.

Some fabricators will install sinks with a cutout larger than the sink there-by revealing the top flange of the sink (a "reveal"). unfortunately this creates another area to clean and exposes the caulk joint between the countertop and the sink. This exposed area also takes a beating over time.

Thank you for responding. We have been so confused as to weather or not we have room for an undermount. We have plenty of room side to side but only a little over 22 inches of open space fro front to back under the sink. We are seriously considering an Elkay sink with full dimensions of 32inches by 181/2 . The sink supply store said it should fit. We have also on line looked at a sink from Loews called Superior Sink. But other than the description on line we can find no information on the company. I had thought finding the right countertop was going to be difficult, however this sink search is quite intense!

I just wanted to add I've had both. My undermount did collect gunk. It was gross, you just couldn't see it. I had to scrape it with a toothpick. I'd like to avoid that this time, I'm not sure about reveal and will have to look into it more and what is best to avoid that issue. I still prefer undermount to drop in, the caulk failed eventually on every drop in I've had and looked grungy.

My mother has a huge white drop-in on her granite kitchen counter. It's ok but I'm not a fan of it when she could have a sleek and less cluttered look with an undermount.
"gunk"....good grief, how much longer is this going to come up? This was a concern 13 years ago on GW when we remodeled our kitchen. I can tell you after 13 years, it's NOT AN ISSUE. I guess if you ever cleaned your sink it would be sooner or later. I don't clean that area often and when I do, there is no "gunk". I do remember "gunk" around the edge of a drop-in tho. I do have a few chips around the edge of the sink. No chips around the edges of the bathroom undermount sinks.

I suggested a Silgranite sink to my sister in law several years ago. I was there last month and asked her if she still liked her sink. She said "absolutely!". She has a black one. All she has to do to maintain the deep black coloring is every so often she wipes it with orange oil. You can use other oils.

Well we finally decided to place the order for an Elkay undermount and hope it fits. I really like it because it has a low divider between the two bowls which pretty much gives you the best of both worlds. You can also get a cutting board that sits on the reveal. Now of course a new debate begins as to wether or not a reveal is the way to go. Why did I ever think picking out a stainless steel sink would be easy.

We are finally ridding ourselves of the ugliest kitchen on the planet (no lie) and we are getting cabinets and granite Santa Cecilia counters from Lowe's. Originally we thought about the undermount sink, in stainless (everyone is doing this) and then in white. Many friends complained of SS losing its luster, showing spots, denting, etc.

Last week a friend of ours showed us her undermount sink's white finish was rubbing off near the drain from scouring/cleaning/whatever (not sure of the material, brand, or grade). So I decided to break trend and threw out the idea to my hubby about an overmounted sink, since we tend to be hard on things around here! I went online and found a cast iron Kohler Hartland sink. At first he was apprehensive until he saw the sink! It is stunning. Our house in Burbank, CA was built in 1939. Like another poster said, we do not want to go too contemporary. So we feel the elegant contours of this sink will mesh well with the overall style of our house. I think this issue of gunk is going to come up anywhere there is water and bacteria (sink, toilet, etc.) - it is the nature of the beast. Yes we will lose the ability to "wipe and go" that we'd have with the undermount (same as our existing God awful ugly tile we've endured for 28 years). But the sink and the faucet we selected will be pristine against the backdrop of the granite. I am not sure at this point if I want my new sink in white or bone. There is something very sweet about that slightly off-white tint of bone. My only concern, other than the demonic gunk, is the heaviness of the cast iron. I asked a guy in the cabinet department yesterday if it was too heavy. He said between the granite itself and the plywood underneath the granite, that it is sufficient to support the cast iron sink.

We can still change our minds, as we are not ordering the cabinets until our demo is done which will be within the next 2 weeks. Best to take accurate measures after everything is out. More lag time but worth it hopefully. For this reason, no pictures to share, other than stock photos.

I have all drop-in sinks in my new built (will be done within a month). 10 sinks from Kohler, cast iron kitchen, ss for laundry.

I'm glad to see this thread has revived. We are looking at replacing our formica countertops with some kind of stone, but I would love to keep my sinks. Both are overmount Franke sinks in stainless steel and in really good condition. It didn't occur to me that we might not be able to reuse them until I talked to a countertop company at the Home Show yesterday and she recommended against drop in sinks. I don't think we could afford to replace the sinks with anything of a comparable quality and I am concerned about that – especially since an undermount sink would be more difficult to replace later on. Also, we are not replacing our cabinets and I'm concerned that I would have to go with a much smaller sink in an undermount. Thoughts?

If you aren't opposed to undermount, just want to keep your existing sinks, couldn't they be undermounted? A lot of top mount sinks can be.

Maybe. That is definitely something we need to look into.

It was just about a year ago that I was agonizing about replacing our Formica counter tops. After reading so many negatives about granite and Quartz I was seriously thinking of just going with Formica again. I was as you are, happy with the over mount stainless sink we had. Then there were the pro and cons undermount vs overmount. OK so we bi.t the bullet and went with Quartz.......we love it. No problems with chips etc. We went with an Elkay undermount stainless sink. We love it. It is every bit as large as our old sink. I don't know why an undermount would be smaller. Our old one was a double sink and we liked that, however, our new one is a double with a low divider so you have the benefits of both a larger sink and a double sink. It took a lot of reading and agonizing and help from this site. It was all worth it!!! Good luck to you and I hope you will be as pleased with the end result as we are!!!

Thanks! We just spent some quality time staring at our sinks and decided that we were just fine with them as top mount sinks over whatever material we end up going with. The rim is relatively small on both of them and we like the sinks enough that we are fine keeping them. We partly needed to remind ourselves that we are making decisions for ourselves and not for perceived resale value!

As a Realtor,Investor for 26 yrs despite what people say, I prefer top mount due to the chips and when you want to change on sink. A good installer and higher end sink won't have a big lip. They're fairly flat these days. Also, stone can also change colors around the sink due to the constant wet or water on the edge I've found. I prefer it over undermount having it both ways over the years. Proper installation and you won't have build up around seam

@Jenna - as a realtor, perhaps you should have noticed the age of this thread, and so, not resurrected it. In any case, I disagree with everything you wrote.

Jenna:

Chips in stone around sinks are predominantly determined by the sink edge profile. Cheap fabricators use a sharp pencil edge that chips easily. There are rare stones that suffer from water damage at sinks. An undermount sink can be changed nearly as quickly as a top mount; sometimes faster.