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Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

Posted by mudworm (My Page) on
Thu, Mar 17, 11 at 15:19

I know... undermount is more popular these days -- it allows continuous flow in granite, and is easy to wipe stuff off, etc. But then I also read about how gunk might (although not always) build up at the seam depending on the reveal, and how the granite edge might get chipped, etc.

Do people all stay away from drop-in sinks when using solid/stone countertops such as granite? I personally do not consider them ugly, but on the other hand, I've never owned a granite countertop. But we WILL use granite in our remodeled kitchen . Here are the pros and cons I see with drop in sinks (without having researched thoroughly into sinks):

Pros:
- Easier installation, thus lower cost
- No chipped edges
- Easy to replace in case of the need

Cons:
- visible on the granite surface, thus disrupting the flow
- gunk may build up at the seam along the edge
- they tend to look less elegant (? not sure on this one)

Anyhow, for those people who do have drop in sinks on solid stone countertop, do you regret? And could you please post pictures? Thank you!




Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

Never understood the so-called "gunk" issue with undermount. I think plllog first used that word to describe the caulking and such, not moss or lichen growing there. I've had two undermount sinks and never saw anything build up under the seam. I've had overmount, though, and enjoyed the long hideous poop of silicone caulk staring at me around the rim, which attracts dirt and resists cleaning until it gradually rips away. Drop in made it much harder to clean my countertops, too, as an added feature.


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

I have one undermount and one drop in. I can't say it was for any of the reasons you cited, it was just because I saw this large, lovely Kohler Cape Dory enamel sink at a liquidators auction for a steal and bought it. So far, I haven't regretted it, and it's appropriate for the look of the scullery area it is in. I do think the undermounts look more elegant with stone countertops generally., with that nice thick edge of stone surrounding the sink and nothing interupting the flow, as you say. The gunk issue is six of one, half dozen of the other...you can get gunk in the undermounts sink seam too with a zero or positive reveal.

IMO anyway, I wouldn't put any old stainless drop-in in a gorgeous stone counter. I just think it would cheapen the look. But something with a bit of pizazz...if you like how it looks, sure. There's no reason not to. Can't send a pic yet....camera is broken, but I'll see if I can borrow my son's tonight!


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

We did a drop-in/self-rimming sink on granite in a previous house. It was a 1926 house and we wanted to try to keep it from looking too contemporary. Cabinets were shaker, appliances were white, white subway BS, ORB fixtures and faucet, Golden Wave granite.

I had put a Kohler Hartland sink in my single gal bungalow and DH really liked it when he moved in. So when we got to doing the kitchen in the new "us" house he really wanted to use the same sink. I was fine with it. It has a traditional look and worked well with the house.

Excuse the tiny pic: many PCs, cameras and hosting sites since 2003. This one I lifted from the MLS when it was recently for sale again. The folks we sold it to hadn't made any changes:

7th ave kitchen

Here is a link that might be useful: Kohler Hartland Sink


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

In my previous home we had an expensive ($1000+) deep triple SS sink drop in. When we remodeled, we decided to keep it with our new granite countertops. If the sink is special in it's own way, I would say it would be Ok, if not the undermount is the way to go.


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

I now have my 2ond under mount. Last house was a stainless under mount - granite and now a soapstone under mount - soapstone. I had neg reveal on both and no chipping, no gunk or any other problems.


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

I believe that most people with stone counters go with undermount sink - much more attractive and easier to wipe the counters right into the sink. Chipping and gunk are red herrings.


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

jakabedy - glad to read someone has had the Kohler heartland sink and likes it. It's at the top of my list for replacing the SS one in my new place.


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

desertsteph -

We LOVED the Kohler Hartland. It is solid and good-looking, particularly in a traditional kitchen. In my old bungalow I had it on white tile countertops, then in the other house we put it on the granite. I thought it was a little wierd at first to do a drop-in on granite, but DH loved it and it was very budget-friendly. Once it was in place, I liked it fine.

Oh, and we sold that house the day we put it on the market, so it couldn't have been too bad!


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

Has anyone used a black granite sink? Are there any black, solid surface sinks? Thanks!!


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

Krisall, Blanco Silgranit sinks are very popular on this board. Search for them and see what people have to say. They come in black, which seems to avoid the staining some people experience in the white ones.

As far as drop-ins go, I think vintage-y looking white enamel sinks are a whole other breed. My monstrosity was stainless steel.


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

I've sold a lot of counters in my career, but the popularity of stone counters has greatly increased in the last 5-10 years. Even during the economic downturn, granite has been THE choice for homeowners because of it's "name" recognition among the masses. Just in the last five years alone, I can say that there have only been two customers who ordered stone counters from me and used drop in sinks. One was a builder. He only wanted builder's grade everything and was only interested in being able to advertise "granite counters" and was not at all concerned about the utility of his choices. (You ought to have seen the awful cabinet layout!) Another top mount sink customer had an old cast iron sink that her grandmother used and it was a sentimental choice. I understood the choice, but unfortunately, her sink really should have been placed in a laundry room or other non visible spot in her home. It wasn't in the best shape, and none of her other choices for her kitchen supported the "patina" aesthetic that the sink had.

So, I'd have to say that 99.9% of all of my customers who chose stone counters chose to use an undermount sink. That's pretty much means that almost "nobody" does top mount sinks with stone.


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

Thanks everyone for the insights! Having read all the posts, I did get the message. Okay, I'll forget of a top mount (drop in) sink. One more item to check off the decision list.


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

I would like to add the third option - flush mount. neither under, nor over. it avoids the problems with either.


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

The granite installer I contacted told me that it would be much cheaper to use a drop in sink. He would be able to use pre-fabricated slabs instead of custom due to the placement of my sink.

I haven't seen any pictures of a drop in sink with granite but the savings is tempting. ~$700.


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

We put drop-in porcelain (I think?) sinks in the granite counter in our master bathroom. They look terrific and there is no trouble cleaning around them. That said, I am not a big fan of the drop-in cast iron sink in my kitchen; the lip is too high for a dish drainer to fit over, for one thing. Still, I don't think there's anything wrong with the look as long as the sink fits the room style.


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

"But then I also read about how gunk might (although not always) build up at the seam depending on the reveal,"

You have got to be kidding.

Stuff might buildup if you do not clean well, but it WILL be under the rim of the drop in sink.

I have taken hundreds of drop in sinks out over the years, and under either the sink rim (self rimming) or separate rim it is ALWAYS cruddy.

Water gets in, carries stuff with it, and grows all sorts of things.


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

Brickeyee, I was NOT kidding. I read it on the Internet (GW AAMOF), so it must be ture! .... right?

$700 difference, daggett? Oie... I'll dig out the drop-in option from the trash can and put it on the table again!

Well, actually, I've been thinking about our future sink for a few days. I'm now leaning towards a black Silgranit or Swanstone sink (see this thread on sinks types). I have been contemplating using black strips of granite in the front and in the back to make the framing (an idea I talked about in this thread) and to make the countertop look more interesting -- not to mention cut down the installation cost.

Oh, I should have asked in the first post! Anyone who has a drop-in sink you think that looks good in your kitchen, can you pleeeeease post photos?


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

Do you want to see our bathroom sinks? A completely different look than a kitchen but I'll take a pic if it'll help.


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

i agree that asking for a photo is a good thing to do.

In your first post you asked for photos too.

Drop ins have a fold in the sheet metal about 1/4" from the edge. This was to give it some strength and straightness, or else the sheet metal might warble and wave and not reflect light all in a straight line.

Blanco and others now make a "MicroEdge" drop in which is just 1mm thick flat steel, not folded. The sheet of steel is flat. I find the edge is a bit rough; I mean I can feel the cut 1mm sheet when I run my finger along the edge of the sink on the counter. In showrooms. I suppose that silicone is expected to be there, and that one will never feel the edge, but I doubt it because I wouldn't want silicone to bump up higher, not even by 0.1mm.

If I had it, I would file down the sharp edge/corner, just a bit, and sand it. A few minutes per side.

Ikea now has this too, on one or two of their sinks. In their case it's about 1.5mm thick and it tapers at the edge, and I believe it's sanded too, which makes it all much more "finished" i.e. better in my opinion, because fingers don't feel the cut edge.

These two makes are worth looking at. I think they resolve all of your concerns.

--

About the gunk: yes, underneath the stainless, in the dark and invisible to the occupant, is gunk. This is mold. Not a lot, but it is there. Actually, often there is a big mold colony there, but who cares, it'll never happen to you, now, will it?

You listed
"Pros:
- Easier installation, thus lower cost
- No chipped edges
- Easy to replace in case of the need
" I agree.

You listed
"Cons:
- visible on the granite surface, thus disrupting the flow
- gunk may build up at the seam along the edge
- they tend to look less elegant (? not sure on this one)
" As mentioned, there is gunk underneath the steel even if you clean the visible stuff. There may be none visible. It's not a big deal. During installation it is feasible to smoosh out silicone so that it covers the whole area and becomes then a "continuous adhesion layer" instead of a bead.

For the record, I'll write that the Cons you listed are all not big, if you find a sink that you think is elegant enough to be yours.

Hth


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Photos of any drop in sink are welcome!

Sure. Welcome photos of any nice looking drop in sink! Thank you.


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R2E: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

p.s. 1mm thickness is an approximation.

flat, not folded.


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

I have a Kohler white Brookfield and a white Mayfield in my laminate countertop--does that count? Doesn't bother me at all. I'm glad not to have to bend down another 2 inches to reach bottom and the white is a part of the room decor.

Here is a link that might be useful: drop in sink on laminate


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

Under the edge of every drop in sink (self rimming or not) there is ALWAYS a lot of crud.

I had a customer that insisted she could have "nothing under there" since she used a knife to clean under the edge of the trim ring on both sides (there were scratches to prove her claim).

She was abhorred when we removed the sink and trim rim during the demo to see what was still left.

A nice black line of crud.
At least with a correctly installed and caulked under-mount the sink is sealed tightly to the underside of the surface with only a small seam.

I have still seen the caulk itself be stained, but not nearly as much buildup of anything since the surface of the caulk can at least be cleaned (and it is not a very large line).


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

davidro1, thanks for the detailed post. You posted it while I was composing mine and I didn't see it right away. I should go to showrooms to check out the sinks and feel them under my fingers. Oh, did I ask for photos in my first post? Guess I was smarter than I thought. :)

Florantha, thanks for the photo! Looks like your remodeling is well underway (unless that was an old photo).

Brickeyee, thanks for the warning. I'll keep that in mind. I've also used knifes on my sinks and faucets to get in the tiniest seams.


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

Not really a drop in sink, but it is a top mount sink on stone (soapstone). I did the caulking this morning, so it finally looks halfway decent.

Don't have a problem with the dish drainer, as it sit over the dishwasher. The soapstone extends over the sink so it drains right in.

I was not considering stone specifically because I did not want to deal with installing an undermount sink (DH was against an undermount) so finding this one allowed me to get stone and keep DH happy too.


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

Macybaby,

Looks very nice. Thanks for posting the pic.


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R3E: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

Correction: with the MicroEdge sinks and flat edge Ikea sinks, i think that this applies: During installation it is feasible to smoosh out silicone so that it covers the whole area and becomes then a "continuous adhesion layer" instead of a bead.


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

I'm sorry I can't find a photo, but I had a drop-in sink on granite countertop in my previous home. It was a white Kohler Mayfield and I'm not sure exactly what kind of granite it was but it was gray/pinkish-brown/white. I really liked it for the 4 years I lived there. We bought the house with that set-up so it wasn't my decision, but I really had no trouble with maintenance and cleaning on the drop-in. I never noticed anything horrible around the rim, although I will admit that it was easy to miss dirt along the back edge if you didn't make the tiny effort required to look back there (ahem, DH).

I should say, I am no germophobe, and I really don't care if there's some sort of gunk beneath the sink lip that you'd never see unless you un-install the thing. But I had no visible crud problem, at least in those 4 years. My parents' have a drop-in that's been in place for about 30 years, also no problem. If it were going to save me $700, I'd probably install another one!


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

I live in a home that was originally built in the late 1800's and added on to periodically. I recently replaced the old formica with Granite Venitian Gold. The sink in the house is a 43" SS Elkay triple drop-in over 20 yrs old..they still make this sink which retails at over $2,000. I love the sink and didn't want to replace with a smaller one in order to have an undermount. Also didn't want to spend $2,000 just to have a new one and it would still be drop in. So I cleaned up the old one and dropped it in. I love it. No granite edges to chip with pots and pans. No problem with cleaning either. My new DCS gas SS stove is a drop in also, so it has the same look as the sink and fits in great with the older traditional look of the kitchen. I haven't had any luck posting pics, so I am unable to do so.

There are pros and cons to both...I believe that your kitchen should be what you like and what is functional.


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

I have attempted to attach a link to a pic of my drop-in sink on granite countertop. Hope this works.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee426/bdette728/024.jpg


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

the ikea sink is called Bredskar. In addition to the flat steel (tapered) on the top, inside the bowl it has a small radius in corners. Apparently that is "new" and harder to manufacture than the wider more rounded corners.

Here is a link that might be useful: one is 22


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not granite but...

like the Ikea sink mentioned my Mom used a deckless drop-in (hers is in laminate but you get the idea). I think this would be a great look on stone. Lots of new builds have drop-ins in stone because it is cheaper not to have the customized cut out for the sink. My Mom's kitchen is very ordinary but this remains one of those little details that made me glad we fussed.

Photobucket

Photobucket


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

Thanks everyone for more photos and inputs. It's good to know that drop-in sinks do not necessarily mean nasty gunk around the rim. Hmmm... so far, I have not seen a black silgranit/Swanstone sink, which is what I'm interested in right now. Hmmm...


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

It's easy to see a black silgranit/Swanstone sink.

Protection against gunk = A continuous adhesion of silicone under the sink rim.

A silgranit topmounted to the counter is good, imho.

If your sink were stainless, with the typical rim that has a little air space under it, I would tell you that
there IS gunk, but it is manageable.
There is gunk under the rim, but you may feel it's not a problem.
There is gunk under the rim, and it might (or not) feed a line of gunk around the outside edge. Or it might be the source of recurring gunk on the visible side. Which you may wipe off, clean off, scrape off, bleach off, or do whatever you may wish to do.


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

I didn't end up getting this sink, but really really love it. Sleek and modern and stunning. imo

Here is a link that might be useful: Blanco MicroEdge


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

How much does that Blanco cost, research queen? It's good looking.


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

I really like the Blanco microedge sinks too. I am contemplating the Precision line to put on the marble counter to protect the edges from any pots dinging it. I like the one research queen posted too but the sink is only 20" which is not large enough for a clean up sink..would be perfect for a prep sink though!


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R5E: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

brickeyee posted twice on Tuesday about gunk. There is non visible gunk in the air space under stainless steel rims that are folded (e.g. as in caryscott's post).

a flat plane under the rim might not ever have any gunk.
Silicone it continuously (microedge or flat edge silgranit sinks or ...).


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

Does anybody have any experience with (or have pictures of) the Franke Oceania "topmount"--it looks like it is inset into the counter. I guess it acts like an undermount, but installs like a drop-in like the Blanco micro-edge sinks.


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

"Protection against gunk = A continuous adhesion of silicone under the sink rim. "

It never lasts very long.


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

florantha, I don't remember the price, but it was expensive. I am in canada, and if I am remembering correctly it was somewhere in the $1500-$2000 range for a 30" (33"?). Hope I am not steering you wrong - I normally remember these details, but in this instance, I don't.

muskokascp, it comes in many sizes. here is the link to all the sizes it comes in. This is for the Precision line. They have other microedge sins as well - play around on the Blanco site to see what I mean.

Here is a link that might be useful: microedge sizes


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?41174-How-to-seal-kitchen-sink-to-countertop
a new thread started today at a plumbers' site, mentioning granite and overmount sinks (drop-in).

Here is a link that might be useful: How-to-seal-kitchen-sink-to-countertop


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

Macybaby,
I like your kitchen / sink! What sink is that? How high is that counter? Is it lower than normal or is the dishwasher higher?

Mudworm, I really think it depends on the style of your kitchen. If you have a sleek / modern kitchen then I'd go undermount. If you have a more traditional kitchen then a white drop-in looks good. To save on install (if it really does cost $700 for an undermount install) you can get a farmhouse sink and run a slab up to each side and a small strip along the back. Ceramic farmhouse sinks cost about $700, but you can get a really sleek stainless one for ~$400.


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

This is a drop-in sink that I put in my pantry. I purchased it at IKEA.Photobucket


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

There is a granite place just north of where I live that does the drop in sink in the granite. They say they've patented the process they use. I really like it--it has a really nice look and clean lines. They use what I would call a low edge profile stainless sink, then they basically grind (miter?) down the granite around the sink opening just enough so the lip of the sink is flush with the countertop. The overlap of the lip of the sink is about 1/2" and this is where the lip of the sink sits. Then they just drop it in, brace from below & caulk around edges. Doing a google search for the company, I found a link to the sink type--it's called a 'gravity sink'. Here's the majority of kitchen sink photos off their site. Hope this helps!

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

Mudworm,
Here's my anthracite (black) Silgranit sink. It has a slightly negative reveal, and I don't have a gunk problem. It's huge, I love it, and I would never go back to a drop-in or stainless.

Photobucket


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

natschultz: I really think it depends on the style of your kitchen. If you have a sleek / modern kitchen then I'd go undermount. If you have a more traditional kitchen then a white drop-in looks good.

I have a feeling that our house is somewhere in between -- not too contemporary and not traditional either. So far, I haven't been able to envision a farm house sink in our kitchen; otherwise, the problem would be solved.

mydreamhome: ...I found a link to the sink type--it's called a 'gravity sink'....

Thanks mydreamhome for posting the photos! I haven't seen a gravity sink in any store (yet). At this point, I have my mind set on a Silgranit (or similar) sink, and they rims all invariable look pretty thick. Guess those cannot be granite sinks.

warmfridg: Here's my anthracite (black) Silgranit sink...

Glad to hear that you love your Silgranit sink. You have the type I was looking into the other day. The undermount does make the countertop surface look so neat! Sounded like you disliked drop-in sinks with a passion. I think so far, I've only heard of one person on GW (by username mabeldingeldine) who has a top mount Silgranit sink (in this thread). Unfortunately, I have not seen a more complete photo of the sink.


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

Hi Mudworm. In response to your request for photos of my sink:
new sink

new sink

One reason I chose this particular sink is that in the future, I could install it as an undermount.

I'm sure people here are sick of my tiny-budgeted kitchen makeover, but if you want to see more photos I have some posted to flickr.

Here is a link that might be useful: more kitchen photos


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RE: Nobody does drop-in sink on stone countertop? Really?

mabeldingeldine, thanks sooooo much for taking and posting the photos!!! I really appreciate your help. That kitchen is full of living! Love it! That on-site supervisor is the best. :)

I think the drop in Silgranit sink looks just fine in your kitchen on that beautiful countertop. Currently, our kitchen has a SS sink on Laminate. But I think it has that "fold" that davidro1 was talking about, so I can still wipe things off into the sink. But the rims in the Silgranit sink (that I plan to get) look more abrupt, so I can see that my habit has to change if I want to do top mount. I feel more informed now. I just think about it more need to talk to the fabricator about the options.

Thanks everyone who provided inputs!


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