Hi there - i've been obsessively researching undercab lighting myself. The top contenders via forum, friend and electrician advice are either the xenon strip lights - 120 volt, so not transformer needed. They can go on a dimmer. The other option are the T4 microflorescents, much cooler, nice color, but no dimmer options. Both are from pegasus - i'll stick a link below.

I'm sure other folks will come on and share their experience, I just had to share because your post could have been mine!

OK.... I can't figure out links below - the link i added is for the xenon - hotter, but dimmable.

Here is the link for microflorescents - much cooler, no dimmer...http://www.pegasusassociates.com/MicrofluorescentT4.html

Once other thing - I think we'll go with xenon because 1 - we have one 12" cabinet with 11" of space after trim - the microflorescents don't have a fixture that small and 2 - it seems that the xenon is easier to buy when you're planning on hardwiring - i won't have to buy connectors or anything to make it work - just the wire my electrician already has. I emailed him today and he was very happy with our choice...

Here is a link that might be useful: pegasus xenon 120 volt

I have xenon and it does not get hot at all. I am very happy with them. I have some flourescent can lights in my kitchen (to conform to California's rules). I don't like their color and they are dim at first and then brighten up in a few minutes. I know some people like them but I wouldn't put them in if I could help it.

I'm using Wac Lighting's xenon light bars for undercab, above cab and in cab lighting. They are all on dimmers and don't overheat. I love the warm color they put out.

Here is a link that might be useful: Wac's Xenon Light Bar

Thank you all for the responses. I will check out the Wac and Pegasus xenon lights. Any other comments and suggestions for others?

marthavila - can i ask where you got your wac lights from? and how much did you pay for them?

I don't have them in yet, but I chose based on a showroom installation. They're LED's that have a mix of colors so they average for a better overall color than mono. What I don't like about LED's is seeing the little dots reflected in polished stone. But I'm getting matte tile, so no little dots.

What I don't like about fluorescents is that there's generally a shadow between fixtures (i.e., between cabinets) that really bugs me. It doesn't bother most people.

This is another really great option...

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.outwatercatalogs.com/2008_Master/lg_display.cfm?page_number=631

We just put in the T4 with the rotating shield from Pegasus.
I like them very much because you can rotate the shield towards the backsplash and have little visible "light bulb glare" on the counter. Or you can rotate the shield and have all the light on the counter. They get warm but not hot.
{{!gwi}}

{{!gwi}}

Make absolutely sure you must have them dimmable. That was my biggest requirement, so I searched all over for xenons that would be "hidden" behind my 7/8" light rail. (I ended up with Kichler.) Here's the kicker .... I NEVER dim them. I have dimmers on every light in my house and use them quite often. But when the undercabs are on, they're always on full blast. I should have gone with fluorescent to save $$ and reduced heat. I don't mind that they get warm, but some pantry items I have in the upper cabs don't like it!

After a lot of research, we went with Alkco Aris LED lights. They get installed tomorrow, so I'll have to wait to tell you more. They weren't cheap, but they are very thin

Thank you everyone for your feedback thus far! It's been helpful and I have more options to look at now.

iris16,
I'm assuming your T4 is fluorescent, right? Does it make a humming noise or flicker when it's on? I've heard that fluorescent lights do that but don't know if it's true. Also, are they hard wire lights or plug in?

smilingjudy,
I guess I shouldn't be obsessed about having my lights on dimmers either then? =) I have dimmers throughout my house so I just assumed I would need them in my kitchen too!

overlyoptimistic, I'm interested in hearing how your installation went? Also, do you know if the Aris LED lights can be used with a dimmer switch?

I have halogen puck lights...I like the pucks but they do get warm...I haven't noticed them being hot.

As to being dimmable...I use the dimmer all the time! Sometimes they're on full, but most often they're not. I've also dimmed them very low at night for "atmosphere"!

Two things I do hate, though..and it's not the lights

(1) My interior cabinet lights are controlled by the same switch as my undercabinet lights...which means if one's on, they're both on. I said something to my KD about it, but she assured me it would be fine...well it's not!

(2) On my cooktop run, all the undercabinet lights are controlled by one switch...which means I can't have one side on & the other off..they're both on or both off! I prep almost exclusively on one side and would rather not have the lights on the other end of the run be on if they're not needed.

So, separate those lights!

Fluorescent tube size goes from T2 to T4, T5, T6, T8, T10, T12 etc.
Multiplying by 1/8" give you the diameter.

They Don'T "make a humming noise or flicker".
Years ago they did; they are now mature technology.

T4 is often used in kitchens because it is slim enough and costs less than T2.
T5 also.
They can be either hard wire or plug in.

Fluorescents give more light per watt consumed, and less heat per watt consumed.
More lumen than Xenon, Halogen or other bulbs of the Incandescent family, and correspondingly less heat.
Light is measured in lumen.

You can buy bulbs with different types of light (warm-yellowish, cool white, natural-sunlight, etc, etc). Fluorescent tube bulbs.

The letter combination T- followed by a number can mean a halogen plug size, too. Not just a fluorescent tube diameter.

HTH
-david

I have Sea Gull halogen lights--I don't remember what they're called exactly (because it was two years ago), but the wire is run down the underside of the cabinets and the little lights are literally stuck into the wire to make a connection. Very annoying because at any one time a few are loose and you have to push them back in. Neat because you can have as many or as few as you like. I wouldn't suggest this type for that annoyance--but I do like the color the halogen puts off (I have a HUGE aversion to the white light of flourescent...always have...no idea why!!) and although they're warm, they haven't melted Oreos or the butter on the first shelf as some have mentioned.

I do like the dimmer because I enjoy leaving them on half strength after I've cleaned the kitchen at night...makes the soapstone look all smooth and buttery...yum!!

:)
Sarah

stpindell - me again - i just wanted to add that if we weren't constricted by the size of the fixtures, i would go for the T4 florescents. someone posted a pic of them on a question I asked on another forum, the color looks great - i'll link it below (you'll see how clueless I am!) I just have a 12" wide wall cab by itself and the microflorescents don't come come in the right width! I like the idea of them throwing off less heat!

Here is a link that might be useful: My undercab question!

We went with our builder's suggestion of xenon lights (not in yet). Supposedly they don't get as hot as the halogens. They have a hi/low switch directly on each light (seperate from the on/off switch on the wall). I like to use the undercabinet lights for ambiance so will leave them on "low" but can just reach up & flip it to "high" whenever/wherever I'm working if I want more light.

Just F.Y.I. and to help put it into context:
-- since halogens are the hottest of the incandescent family, then hey for sure the next variation will be "not as hot as" halogens.

The comparison is meaningless, although used everywhere.

: - )

HTH.

Thank you everyone for your feedback...Still haven't decided.

I found a xenon light bar that is suppose to be low voltage. Has anyone heard of this option? Also, does it make it less "hot" since it's low voltage?

overlyoptimistic,

How did your Alkco Aris LED lights installation go? Do you like them? Did you put on a dimmer? Do they get hot when you have them on for a while? Do you have a pictures?

Sorry for all the questions - just interested in seeing how it turned out. =)

Sorry for not posting sooner. I don't get check the forums every day (gasp, I know). I just snapped some photos and I'll upload them tomorrow.

We love the Alkco LED lights. Not hot at all. We don't currently have them on a dimmer, although we might do that eventually. The color is fantastic-- nice warm, soft light.

overlyoptimistic,

Thank you! Also, where did you buy them at? I tried to google and didn't find anything.

We have LED undercabinet lights and they're great task lighting. They are a very cleanly cold light(no warmth ie yellow or pink at all) which I like, but others might run screaming from(too clinical.) I get plenty of "warmth" from my overhead recessed lights and pendants.

laxsupermom,

Which brand of LED lights do you have? Is it the hockey puck or the light bar style? Where did you buy them from? Do they got hot when you have them on too long? Are they on a dimmer? Any chance you have pictures of them?

Here are some photos

We purchased them from a local electrical supply house. Alkco's website gave me the name of the local representative. The local rep is just a wholesaler and gave me the name of a couple local distributor. I also got the number of two other electrical supply places that sold Alkco-- I called three to get quotes-- which ranged A LOT. The longer versions (41") were about $250 and the shorter light was about $150. That includes the connectors and junction boxes.

I haven't installed the light skirt yet.

If you order the Alkco, you need to order a junction box and a connector. These are visible on the second picture. The junction box is the small white box behind the plugmold. The connector goes between the junction box and the light, and can connect to either end. I purchased 3 6" connectors and now realize that one of the lights needs a 12" connector. I hadn't thought that through.

Let me know if you have other questions.

By far Xenon is the better light to go with. The quality of the lights is better to live with. Our fixtures have 2 settings and we have never changed them. They were expensive to install but totally worth it. The electrician recommended them. Good luck!
Carol

stpindell, sorry I don't check back every day. To answer your questions....
My lights are flurescent t4. They don't make a hum or flicker. We chose the "warmer" color bulbs. They are hard wired. My DH did it without too much difficulty.

They are Portfolio 24" LED strip lights. I don't think they make them anymore. Portfolio only has the pucks or the squarish ones in stores now. I had resigned myself to getting xenon as a second choice because of the price of the LED's, but found them clearanced at Lowe's last year.

The only kind I will have (and have had in three kitchens) are kind of cheap and goofy, but I really like them because they're incandescent. I don't know their official name but you can get them at Home Depot. They are a sealed unit of little tiny Christmas tree type lights. You just screw them on underneath, and they can be plugged in or hardwired, whichever you prefer. They cast a really nice warm glow and they don't get hot. You must put them under the lip of the front of the cabinet, facing towards the back, because if you place them so you can actually see the lights it looks like a movie marquis.

I wouldn't have anything else.

We just had T-5 fluorescents installed under our cabinets and they put out a very clean, white light that is a great task light - unfortunately, they are not dimmable, which was the one thing we were very clear with the electrician about - we wanted dimmable, and we still do! These are just way too bright and clincial looking - so I'm going to ask about Xenon. That sounds like the best bet. The electrian loves LED, as do some of you - but the example he showed us seemed way to white-blue to me. Overlyoptimistic - yours do look much warmer than what I've seen, and than my fluorescents. I'll ask him about those too.

Thanks all!

We went with Seagull 24V lighting. It's the same system mentioned by sarahandbray above. Kichler makes an identical system. Benefits: Very flexible(easy to add/remove lights after you see how the area looks, very low profile, and dimmable. I was concerned about the heat issue. Although the bulbs get warm, I haven't found that you feel the heat without touching the bulbs.
The switches are all programmable on the dimmers: you can program the "ramp up" and "ramp down" speed, as well as program "moods," where it will alter the brightness to prest levels based on your needs(ie nightlight mode vs. cooking mode vs. entertaining mode.)

Thanks for all the responses!

debandmer,
Your lights look great. I will definitely have to look into them! I'm assuming since it's a 24v then you needed a transformer installed, right?

Does anyone have any thoughts on low voltage vs. regular for undercabinet lights? Some of the low voltage light bars now have individual transformers built in each of them. My DH thinks it's just one more thing that can break and go wrong. Thoughts?

Correct. I essentially have three different circuits: Crown, undercab, and island. They each have their own transformer. PS- My electrician(brother) recommended frosted bulbs to give less glare off the granite, but I don't really notice a difference.....Good luck with your decision.

momorichel - LED's are usually available in both "normal" (cool) white and "warm" white. The normal white is the bluish white that many people don't like. The warm white comes close to incandescant light in color.

Thanks, Glenster - but now that I think about it, we saw botht the "normal" and the "warm" - and the warm didn't seem quite warm enough to me. Again, maybe that was the particular brand, or maybe I need to give it another chance. Meanwhile, they are EXPENSIVE. I know they are low-energy usage and you never have to replace them - but it's a big layout for us right this minute. However, if anyone is a real fan and wants to talk me into it, I'm listening!

Low voltage will require a transformer and they are often more expensive if they are dimmable where virtually any hard wired line voltage unit will be dimmable (save flourescent).

These Xenon units from Amertac were $25 each (including the bulb):

This is at night with no overheads on and the camera flash off. For some they might not throw enough light (you can get 2 or 3 bulb units) but my Mom finds them great and they are on dimmers and don't get too hot to touch the metal casing.

Electrician thought they were well made and we spent $150 to light 2 sides of the "L". They are pretty much all inclusive you use the plug in chord to link the units if you direct wire them.

caryscott,
Your lights look great and I love the price! I can't tell from the picture where they are installed under the cabinets. Are they installed up against the light valance?

What is standard?

I posted this on another thread about Juno lighting, but am asking here as well since this thread seems more active - Do most people cover the entire length of the undercabinet with the lighting bar? That's what the electrian did with our fluorescents, and it seems like overkill to me...

On Cary's pix and other posted here, it looks like you spaced your light bars along the bottom, rather than filling the whole undercab. I admit it looks a little more clean and "professional" with the undercab covered like that - but that's not necessarily our needs. Thoughts?

p.s. Cary: your mom's kitchen is looking really good! Nice work, I bet she's very appreciative, and I know you did it on an admirable budget too. Congratulations.

Am I correct that undercabinet lighting must go in with cabinet installation vs. something to consider later? I'm getting estimates for cabinets now, and forgot to ask about adding lighting during installation.

Anyone else have any thoughts on these AmerTac's at Lowe's?

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=283327-207-XC335KWLUS&lpage=none

I picked up a few today at Lowes and, in store, they are actually UtiliTech brand, but the SKU and the look of them is the same as the web.

Haven't installed them yet. If I was to have to switch to mail order at this point, it might delay some things though.

stpindell,

They are not up against the rail - if I recall he pretty much centered them (front to back). Not sure what standard is but with these the bulb is set in a recessed reflective cavity so it spreads out evenly front to back. If the light is just projecting down (and not out) as it does with some product you would want them more forward.

momorichel,

You can see in this pic how in the reflection on the backsplash the light broadens out as it lowers (I hope):

That's very kind, we are nearly done and not too over budget - seems like the money should have gone further but not a lot of sweat equity in this one.

lexluthor,

That's the exact product in my pictures (except my Mom's are white and just the singles). I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop but I actually had two electricians look at them and both thought they were fine. They are line voltage so they aren't as energy efficient as some but because of the design you don't need nearly as many either (or as many bulbs). They have all the same advantages of other Xenon product (whiter more natural light, brighter, longer bulb life, cooler running temp).

www.slimfluorescent.com

Slim T4 fluorescent and T5 fluorescent light fixtures are thinnest linkable fluorescent luminaries on the market today. They are the light of choice for designers and architects for tight-space lighting applications.

Each package includes: 1) Ribbed acrylic cover 2) 6' plug-in power cord 3) End-to-end connector 4) 2 mounting clips 5) 6" flexible inter-connector 6) Long-life fluorescent lamp - Choice: Warm-White, Cool-White, Day Light, Blue, Green, Red, Ultra-Violet

Here is a link that might be useful: T4 & T5 Slim Fluorescent Lamps on SALE

I had the low voltage xenon lite installed when we did the kitchen about 3 years ago. They are all controlled by a master dimmer that I had mounted into the wall---like any wall switch. They work great, never have had one burn out and I can adjust the light from "super sunny to a faraway star" (LOL) Love em and they dont get near as hot as a halogen, and last 5 times as long about 10,000 hours if on full bright which they never are. There is a little transformer that comes with the lites to step the voltage down to 12 volts--it is hidden in the false bottoms of the cabinets. All 9 lites are puck lites and you can aim them --ie tilt. To get the best effect of the light on your backsplash (DO NOT mount them close to the backsplash) I had a neighbor do that and it didnt show off the backsplash at all and He ended up redoing it.

Gary

What color of light is recommended for under cabinet lighting?