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A Lot Of Livin' In This Kitchen

John Liu
13 years ago

The best cook I know lives in this kitchen. I wanted to show you some pictures because it has some interesting features. Also, she is thinking about a facelift, so I'm interested in any ideas you all might have.

The kitchen is a little complicated, so I'll explain the layout via some pictures.

Looking west, from the dining room. On the left of the picture, beyond the photo's edge, is a desk and full-height glass-front stemware cabinet. On the left part of the photo, you see the kitchen's seating area, used for breakfast, small meals, and hanging out. In the middle, at the far (west) end of the kitchen, is a door to the backyard (not visible), the refrigerator, and the commercial Wolf six-burner range. To the right of that is a sink, an old Wedgewood range with four burners, griddle, two ovens, and two broilers, and the butcher block on casters. To the far right, just beyond the photo's edge, is another sink and an ''L'' of counter.

This is the seating area, surrounded by windows and cookbook shelves. This is a possible use for those low windows out there.

This is looking east, standing in front of the Wedgewood range and looking back toward the dining room. You see the eating area, desk, stemware cabinet, and part of the counter ''L'' with (out of view) the second sink and dishwasher.

Detail of the Wedgewood range, butcher block, and first sink.

West end of the kitchen with refrigerator and Wolf range. Door to the backyard is to the left of the refrigerator.

Detail of the second sink area, this is facing north-east. All of the uppers are glass-fronted.

The stub of wall between the backyard door and the eating area is used for hanging pot storage. The cookbook shelves wrap around to this wall. Her pots are mostly French copper and old All-Clad. I did some copper polishing on this visit, after taking this picture.

So that's the kitchen. She is thinking about replacing the tile counters with butcher block, replacing the square tile backsplash with white subways, and getting some new sinks, including one deep enough for her stockpots. She is happy with her appliances and cabinets. The budget doesn't extend to major work anyway.

I suggested undercabinet lighting for all the uppers, wall mounting the faucets, adding a sprayer at the wash-up sink. Her counters are 36.5'' high, she and her husband are fairly tall. I was thinking that raising the counters 1.5'' could allow pull-out bread boards. She'll sometimes wish for more counterspace (yes, I know, she's not really wanting for same).

Some context. This is in a modest house in Los Angeles. They are big-hearted, gregarious, unassuming Boston Irish Jewish transplants. She entertains frequently, dinner parties 1-2x week, sometimes large ones. Given the climate, some of their cooking is done outdoors, where there is a smoker, grill, refrigerator, and four-burner Jade range. My friends are in their early 70's, act like they're in their 50's, have a zillion friends, kids both natural and defacto (SWMBO is one of the latter), and are longtime foodies. As I've mentioned, she is the best cook I know, but her son went to culinary school and dinners are often a multi-cook affair. Her decorating style is sort of antique-y clutter, but every piece has a story.

I hope these pictures were interesting, and if you have ideas for her facelift, can you suggest them?

Comments (127)

  • marthavila
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My thought is that those images are, in fact, most dangerous in the eyes of those who don't think about the history and just absorb the stereotype along with the feelings of nostaligia.

    Dretutz, no problem. Not even a reason to apologize! You were merely speaking your mind on an always-sensitive topic. As Boxerpups and Dee850 have admired your courage to do so, so do I. Oftentimes, including a few instances on this very forum, I've felt compelled to step out and take an unpopular or provocative position on something. That's not an easy thing to do! Truth is, I feel I know exactly where you were coming from in your initial post. Problem is, other than Johnliu, perhaps, who among us can know why the person who has collected such memorabilia proudly displays it in the first place? Especially within the context of an internet forum, where we are not in direct dialogue with that person, I hesitate to form an absolute judgment and conclusion as to his/her motivations.

    Again, thanks for your consciousness and sensitivity. It is my prayer that your daughter never grows up having to hear that she is a "darling little pickaninny" and that you, her mom, never has to deal with such an ugly insult ever again.

    Peace and light

  • rosie
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I love the look of the foodstuffs behind the glass doors--so much we have that on our current pantry wall.

    Long ago, we put marine hinges on our less-used cabinets after losing a couple plates in, I think, the Whittier quake. They worked well. I couldn't use them on the cabs holding canned and other foodstuffs etc over my work counter because I'd removed the doors for open storage. (Guess the era: cabs painted sunshine yellow, insides gray blue, plants hanging everywhere :) In any case, if she gets new counters, it might be a good idea to keep the canned goods behind those latches. It might save a broken foot someday too.

  • laughablemoments
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This kitchen brings back fond memories of my grandparents' house. Lots of love, tons of good food, great times with relatives (about 30 of us for dinner every Sunday). At grandma's, she had an owl collection. I would count them for fun as a little girl. I think it topped 100. I wouldn't want to dust around it all now, but as a child I thought the collection was grand.

    On a practicality and thrift note: Have they considered laminate (formica, wilsonart) for the backsplashes? We have this, and I've seen it done in several other kitchens. It's simple, inexpensive, and a dream to keep clean. No toothbrushes required! With all the visual activity, I'd make it neutral so it didn't compete with the displays. I like the large granite tile idea, simply pick a laminate that coordinates with it.

    Do they ever prep sitting down? Whenever grandma had a big job to do, snipping beans, or peeling potatoes, for example, she'd take a big bowl of what she was working on and sit at the table to do it. I'm thinking they might like a work area that they could sit at comfortably, especially as they continue to get older.
    I had to clip the picture of the table area with all the books under the windows. I love it! I could happily sit there and work for hours. What a great spot. : )

  • beckysharp Reinstate SW Unconditionally
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh, I love the story of the flooring party!

    I think zinc would be grand, terrific that it's an option.

    Becky

  • caryscott
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It's a very evocative room. Have to say I wouldn't like to see most granites in it - seems like it would be sort of anachronistic.

    Erasure is a form of denial. Ripped from the context of its' owner and her history it is impossible to know what these objects mean to her or her family. I appreciate someone taking note of them as I didn't (a fact of which I am not particularly proud but a fact all the same) and I think that expressing personal discomfort in forums like this, as long as one doesn't project ones reactions onto someone else (which wasn't, for the most part, the case here), enriches the on-line environment.

    Look forward to seeing the slightly refreshed version of this kitchen down the line.

  • beachpea3
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Johnliu...Thank you for sharing this warm and inviting gem with us. This kitchen makes me smile! I can see it with zinc countertops. I know the patina would appeal to your friend. ( My grandmother's kitchen had zinc counters and beadboard backsplashes....) Like your ideas about the lighting and the deep sink. I am closer to your friend's age and would love to have both in my antique kitchen. Check out some of the sinks that have the cutting board accessory.

    To refer to some of the other posts above: I would agree that this kitchen's cook knows where every necessary tool lives. After 50+/- years one just does! However, I am mindful that in 15-20 years that may not be the case. In the meantime John's friend will have many years of fun in this kitchen with such an extended circle of friends and family to cook with and for! Cheers!!

  • dianalo
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I noticed the "black" memorabilia, but my thought was that anyone who is actually racist would not be displaying anything even remotely from African American culture. They'd probably cloak their spaces in red, white and blue and keep far away from anything racial. You might see a Union Jack, but that would be the only clue. I am sure we have seen racists' kitchens here without knowing the owner's "philosophy" which was not expressed through decor.

    I assumed the person knew history and had some sort of connection. If not personal, then an academic reason. Perhaps they just collected everything to do with a time period. I don't think that cleansing whole time periods and only keeping the fun parts serves anyone's best interest. Anyone with half a brain can see that the representations are caricatures, even if people back then didn't. No one is buying those stereotypes now.
    We hear people talk about the "good old days" and lament about how awful things are now. They fondly recall poodle skirts, diners and drive ins and forget that era and before had segregation and women were second class citizens.
    I appreciate the architecture and design of the 40s, yet I am glad I did not live through that era myself.
    More people are enlightened today than ever before and hopefully, our kids and grandkids will see an even smarter world. I had hoped when our president got elected it signaled a more open minded population, yet the backlash has been horrible. It was a big step for our country, but it has many more to go.

  • Stacey Collins
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Regarding latches that behave as you've described: our sailboat has latches that fit the bill. They are push-buttons.. when you push in the knob it frees the latch and sort of pops the cabinet open a smidge for you. The button is flush when closed, popped out when open (the white plastic part is behind the door face.) Those may be an option. There are also many other types of boat latches, all of which have positive latching mechanisms since obviously on a sailboat the cabinet door needs to be firmly latched shut :)

  • kaysd
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    John, as soon as someone mentioned SS counters, I was thinking zinc, as it has many of the same benefits, but is warmer and less modern looking.

  • marcolo
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    There are some cool pictures of zinc countertops at Willow Decor (see link below). There are supposedly some health concerns about zinc countertops, but I've already started in on my Saturday Gruener and can't rally to search for them.

    Oh, if Casey suggests doing something to support the cabs, I would do it. 'Cause Casey said so.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Willow Decor Purdy Zinc Countertops

  • desertsteph
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "those are her precious memories"

    yep - to be enjoyed by her, her family and friends as long as possible.

    a new big sink and a sprayer would be great!

    do you think she'd like soapstone? from some I've seen on this board, it looks like it'd 'fit in' there. It wouldn't look intrusive. I've not seen it IRL myself.

    while I like the tile in the 'L.A.' pic, I'd want to get her away from the cleaning of grout. especially since she mentioned that! time is better spent - cooking.

    on the cabinets latches - have you looked thru Lee Valley (online or paper catalog)? they'll send you / her a free catalog or even both of you.

    you could print out some pics like the one posted here and make her a folder to look thru.

  • edie_g
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Stainless steel counters would be easy to care for, withstand hot pots, be light enough to be placed on older cabs, and not compete with her decor. It's not as light in color as white, but light enough for aging eyes. It can look industrial, but she has enough warmth to balance that.

    The stages sink and a commercial-type faucet with sprayer are great ideas. A SS sink in a SS counter can be very practical without any seams.

    Does she love subway tile? Replacing the 4 x 4 with them doesn't change the fact that they're both tile and have grout. Why spend the $ unless you really want it. The other problem is that replacing one or two things makes everything else look old or dated by comparison.

    Painting the walls and/or cabinets would be a fresh look for the least amount of $.

    One thought about the latches: While it's good to think about earthquake safety, some of those latches are difficult to open, especially as people age and/or develop arthritis in their hands. It would be good if she could try them out in person.

  • northcarolina
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    How about roll-out shelves in the lower cabinets? My closest local big-box store (the blue one) has Rev-A-Shelf in stock now.

    Just a note -- we have laminate countertops, and I have been trying to kill them with hot pots and can't. They are still in good shape after 25+ years, except for chipping around the bottom edge where the installer didn't make them even with the substrate. Somebody posted once that the laminate being sold now isn't as thick/durable, but I don't know if that is really the case. Anyway, it's just an idea if she decides not to do wood near the sink and the other options aren't in the budget.

  • formerlyflorantha
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Johnliu, I wrote a long response but erased it. Tell your friend that a poster "of a certain age" was delighted to learn about someone who does dinner parties and owns a cabinet full of stemware.

    What's in those breadboxes?

  • jakkom
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    >>Somebody posted once that the laminate being sold now isn't as thick/durable, but I don't know if that is really the case.>>

    It's true. Bigger $$$ for the laminate companies when they upsell the more durable, scratchproof laminates as a higher-end product.

    Many granites would have too much of a 'modern' look for her kitchen, but some would work. It looks like she gets enough light to use Absolute Black or Black Galaxy, and those are often available at a good price. Cheaper, I think, than soapstone which needs oiling.

    I agree your friend should be there to try out the knobs. Many are just way too small and/or awkward with wet/greasy or arthritic fingers. Rosie's comment about marine latches reminded me that long ago when I was a kid (ahem) we had some cabinets which opened that way, but they had handles so were very easy to grip.

    I Googled and one company calls them Hoosier latches. The price is breathtaking, so you might be able to find them somewhere else. But the link below will show you what they look like.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Hoosier Cabinet Latches

  • live_wire_oak
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You mentioned that she has 3 ovens, with one being outside. If she rarely uses that fabulous Wolf, it would really free up a lot of kitchen space to relocate it. Maybe also outside? You could make the counter in that corner into an L shape and locate a roll out butcher block cart under it.

    You also mentioned the fact that most meals take place in the dining room rather than at the kitchen table. I really can't get a good sense of the clearances in the kitchen without an overhead diagram, but what if you were to eliminate that kitchen table in favor of an island type storage structure with some seating? And/or replace the current table with a very small bistro set for 2?

    Those are two functional changes that could enhance the kitchen at a low cost. As far as the other changes that have been discussed, the one suggestion that stood out to me as far as improving some of the sensation of clutter would be to create niches into that backsplash. That could give her smaller more organized areas for display of her collectibles or food prep items. And, you're in Cali, which means you don't have to worry too much about creating cold pockets in the exterior walls! The suggestion to group the like items together to cut down on the visual clutter would be a good one. She wouldn't have to get rid of any of her objects, just decide what went with what and where it would be best displayed.

    I know you asked about latches that would contain the collections during an earthquake, but remember the fact that your dealing with folks in their 70's here, and grasping some of those latches could prove to be a problem in the future. I think that earthquake "clay" to keep the collectibles firmly attached to their shelves would be a better choice in this instance. I also agree with obscuring a couple of the glass front cabinet. I do think a beautiful shirred fabric on the doors would be right in line with the rest of the kitchen.

    As far as the counter material goes, zinc is more expensive than stainlessm, and you can't have an integrated sink (unless you spend a fortune!) like you can with stainless. I think the stainless for the wet areas (with a marine edge and integrated drain board) would add the proper utility and looks to a kitchen focused on producing food. Look for a metal fabricator in an industrial area to get better quotes rather than the foo foo kitchen stores. I might even go ahead and do sheet stainless as the backsplash too. It's easy to keep clean, and it reflects light---which is very important to aging eyes. (Absolutely add in under counter lighting also.) I wouldn't raise the counter, as that would make clearances to the uppers problematic. If a higher prep space is desired, then use thicker cutting boards (cut from the leftover butcher block) to raise specific areas.

  • beckysharp Reinstate SW Unconditionally
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My parents had simple wood blocks on the kitchen cabinets, stained to match the cabinetry, in their retirement house to keep them closed. Easy for them to manage, and held things closed well and easily. Cheap, too.

    Last April I installed some of the after-market cabinet roll-out drawers from The Container Store for my mother. I just checked quickly and didn't see the same brand there any more, the link is below. They were very easy to install, and more importantly for my mother, rolled out very smoothly and quite sturdy.

    Becky

    Here is a link that might be useful: Rollout drawers

  • lavender_lass
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I just have to ask...what's with all the toasters, over the pot rack?

    The cookbook storage is great...and how wonderful, to have cookbooks, signed by Julia Child!

    While you can tell this is a kitchen full of well-loved items and collections, it might be a good idea, to mention that although most of the items fit the 'vintage/nostalgic' look...some are no longer the most appropriate to put on display. Maybe a few new pieces (good excuse to visit the local thrift/antique stores) to go with the new countertops and wall color.

    When everything comes down to clean and paint, rearrange and edit a few things (if only for PC reasons) and find some great Jadite pieces, for example, to replace them :)

  • pinch_me
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    lavender_lass, If it's 3, it's a collection.

  • John Liu
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    As this thread is rapidly closing on 100 follow-ups, where I think (?) threads max out, I wanted to thank everyone who has given their thoughts, reactions, suggestions, and comments. I do mean everyone.

    This has been a thought-provoking and memory-evoking thread for me. I've been reminded of, or introduced to, issues that don't normally get much attention from me. Aging gracefully. Aging exuberantly! The role and place of things. The power of images, and the emotions they call from each of us. The importance of this woman in my life, and now my childrens' lives. The 10 years during which SWMBO and I were privileged to be weekly visitors, helpers, and extended family in her kitchen. How much has changed since, and how much, gratefully, remains the same.

    I was surprised to see this thread get so much interest. Hers is far from the grandest kitchen on the KF. I think most of you discerned something of the passion and the person behind that kitchen and the welter of objects within, both functional and not. Those reflect my friend, and won't be swept aside until life takes her, but they can be evolved and improved, as can we all.

    Your suggestions - all of them - were, and are, very, very appreciated by me. Thank you.

  • marthavila
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you, John, for posting one of the more interesting and lively threads I've ever had the pleasure of seeing on the KF. Of course, that's largely because you have also posted photos of the one of the most interesting and lively kitchens ever on the KF. Only a very special person could have built such a special kitchen over the years! It's been quite the delight to be a voyeur of some aspects her life and of her kitchen culture (as described by you) these past few days and I can't wait to see what happens next with this kitchen -- possibly as a result of all the wonderful feedback you have elicited on her behalf.

    BTW, threads die off at 150 posts. So, this thread has many more contributions to go before it's! :-)

  • petra_gw
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, what an interesting thread, and an equally interesting kitchen! I am so surprised - and impressed - how spotless everything appears to be. I keep our kitchen completely uncluttered in part because I am not an enthusiastic cleaner, so the less stuff I have sitting around, the less extra cleaning there is to do. :o)

    But that aside, this kitchen has so much personality and it looks very homey and comfortable. Some of the kitchens I've seen on here are so stunning and glamorous, I would be afraid to sit down in them. This kitchen looks inviting, I can imagine sitting at the cozy table in the book nook and having a cup of coffee and great conversation.

    Considering the kitchen, I would LOVE to see the rest of the house. :o)

  • pinch_me
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh, Yes! Do you think we could see more???

  • sabjimata
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am a fan of this kitchen but also am wondering how anyone actually cooks in it with all the collections on the countertop.Instead of changing out the sink, I would focus on changing out the faucet. I love the old school tile and second that, but would also add some stainless steel counter for practical reasons.

    Personally, I would get rid of the eat in table and replace it with a moveable island that could double as an eating/work space.

  • Claudia77
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh my Heavens! What a happy kitchen! I would love to sit with her and have a cup of coffee and a lovely chat and look around at all her memories. This kitchen generated a LOT of comments - it certainly is not boring!

    I don't think she should get butcher block counters - they will get burned and cracked. Either stick with another kind of tile or get another hard surface: granite, Corian, Silestone, etc. I've had the same white tile counter tops for the past 18 years. I love that I can clean my counter top with bleach and I know it's CLEAN!!! I never have to worry about what I put on them. This cook is always cooking, very busy, shares her kitchen, she doesn't need to be worrying about which counter top she can put hot items on....all of her counter tops should "work."

    I agree she should get a moving butcher-block island.

    Thank you for posting this lovely kitchen - full of personality - probably many of these items have happy stories linked to them that are probably a comfort to her.

  • rosie
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Good quality Formica is a wonderful possibility, as is stainless. I've had old kitchens with both and loved them both. Personally, linoleum's still on my list. I just now realized for the first time that my old gray-marbled counter and backsplash would probably have been more twice as old as I was then, although I just saw it as in amazingly good shape for something so old and tacky. :) Now, I really admire it.

    Regarding simplifying the style, heaven forfend, not that I worry that'll happen. As with others, of so many wonderful (and much-loved) kitchens shared on this forum, this one especially invites me to come sit and chat. I just know I'd be welcome--as would my grand-MIL's old, old toaster. It spent WW2 in Europe, was in the badly damaged home she and family survived to return to after fleeing the Nazis, and is still working though she's long gone now.

  • kaismom
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Someone mentioned sailboat latches... That is brilliant!

    We have a sailboat and nothing flies out of the cupboards when people fly about in a gale storms. we have the kind of latches where there is a hole cut out of the front and which is attached to the latch. There are several different types of latches. Go ask at the marina stores or find boatwrights that work on boats. This, however, may not be a cheap solution if you are paying a boatwright.

  • pinch_me
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    NOTHING replaces a kitchen table. NOTHING. A wheeled island is not condusive to coffee and conversation. I have this lady's kitchen. I based my entire remodel on fitting my round oak table into it. I had the ghastly eat at counter/bar/peninsula. I did the happy dance the day I ripped it out.

    Why does she need a table on wheels? I didn't find that question in the original post.

    Direct quote from the original post:
    "She is thinking about replacing the tile counters with butcher block, replacing the square tile backsplash with white subways, and getting some new sinks, including one deep enough for her stockpots. She is happy with her appliances and cabinets. The budget doesn't extend to major work anyway."

    Has no one ever seen the type of butcher block table she has? I saw one exactly like it for $75. Hesitated, went back and it was gone! Just like that. Gone. If you've never used one you don't know what you're missing. Butcher block is meant to be cut upon. It's intended to have cut marks on it. You can set a hot skillet on it. It's WOOD. Butcher block would work for her. She doesn't want a granite/island/peninsula lights/stainless everything appliances. She doesn't want what 99% of the people on this forum have. She has a kitchen that works for her. She has a kitchen she likes. She doesn't want what everyone else has. There has been a lot of feedback on this post but most of it doesn't apply to what SHE wants.

  • marcolo
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Try some more fiber, pinch me.

    The lady wants more countertop. The table by the stove is not the kitchen table. It was set up to serve for St Paddy's Day. It's a good spot for a moveable island. Deal.

  • desertsteph
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "I don't see anything derogatory about her love of black memorabilia. So WHAT!"

    I don't either. I 'spect these things hold memories of a loved one for her.

    John - check out that zinc idea. there was a thread in the past few days re:zinc countertop and health issues. if not on KF, check small homes or decorating.

  • vinesandroses
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I read a lot of slave narratives in school and must be more sensitive to social injustice than most so yes I find the black memorablila insensitive at best, and can certainly see how others would find it offensive. To me this is a cross between hoarders and a stall at the antique mall. My suggestions are: ditch the politicaly incorrect kchotkies (sp?) and the eighties dried flower wreath (a real dust and grease catcher). Switch from dark green paint to mint. Cull the cookbooks down to ten or so favorites and then use the extra shelf space for the collections. This would lead to clean spare lines and easier clean-up. Another aside - don't know why but shamrock stuff makes me cringe - I've spent some time in Ireland and it's not what you see over there at all.

  • ci_lantro
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bump out the lower cabinets where possible so she can have deeper counter tops. That will give her more work space & help calm down the visual clutter. The current tile contributes to the clutter so something like stainless or zinc (my choice) would help calm things too.

    The surface will be darker than what she has now so undercab lights will be needed.

    Would not raise the countertops because of clearance issues with the top cabs. But, looking at the bottom cabs, it looks like there is enough room to accomodate pull out bread boards with only a bit of alteration...plenty easy to accomplish while the countertops are removed.

    Love your idea of a wall mounted faucet. I don't think it would be very expensive to switch. A sink w/ an integrated back would be cool. This is the type I'm talking about; I had one in an apt. but w/ no drainboard.

    {{gwi:1731050}}

    BTW, I love the kitchen. And, I'd like to remind people that we're tagging along with a guest in that kitchen. The owner did not come here and post the pictures. This is a kitchen in a private home, not a public space.

    Thanks, John, for showing us around this kitchen. It really is charming and a real treat to see.

  • kathec
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Cool! It reminds me of Julia Child's kitchen. New surfaces would certainly give the kitchen a new lease on life. I think butcher block and subway tile would fit nicely with everything they have. They are also easy on the wallet if you go with IKEA or Lumber Liquidators BB and classic white subways from Lowes. I've read that D shaped sinks provide more area front to back than traditional rectangular sinks.

    It might not be a bad idea to explore whether a pot filler is possible. While not necessary, it might be a luxury worth splurging for. Heavy pots of water are hard to carry at any age.

  • pinch_me
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    " She'll sometimes wish for more counterspace (yes, I know, she's not really wanting for same)."

  • iona46
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would give my right arm for that kitchen and everything in it exactly like it is!! No matter what gets changed in there, I hope everything goes back in it exactly like it is now. You couldn't reproduce a kitchen like that if you tried! It's a real classic!

  • marcolo
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    " She'll sometimes wish for more counterspace (yes, I know, she's not really wanting for same)."

  • lavender_lass
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Pinch me- I agree with you about the kitchen table :)

    Marcolo- Play nice!

  • onedogedie
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Great kitchen. Thanks for sharing it. Love all her stuff. Maybe she should just empty out and clean and move in again. Just shake it up and make it feel different. Subway tile isn't needed in this kitchen. It has all the vintage cred needed.

  • desertsteph
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "My suggestions are: ditch the politicaly incorrect kchotkies (sp?) and the eighties dried flower wreath (a real dust and grease catcher). Switch from dark green paint to mint. Cull the cookbooks down to ten or so favorites and then use the extra shelf space for the collections. This would lead to clean spare lines and easier clean-up. Another aside - don't know why but shamrock stuff makes me cringe - I've spent some time in Ireland and it's not what you see over there at all."

    Then it'd be YOUR kitchen, not hers.

  • desertsteph
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "It might not be a bad idea to explore whether a pot filler is possible. ...
    Heavy pots of water are hard to carry at any age."


    that crossed my mind also as something that might make things easier for her. I don't cook enough to need one, but she sure does!

  • farmgirlinky
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the especially thoughtful comments from dretutz, marthavila, and dianalo. Whole Lot of Livin' (and History) in This Kitchen for sure! I find myself thinking about my favorite cookbook, Out of Kentucky Kitchens, by Marion Flexner -- there aren't many recipes in the book that I would reproduce and serve in my adult life as a Connecticut Yankee, but the book makes me think of home, with the bitter and sweet pangs that are associated with the word. My grandmother's copy of the book came eventually to me, and was food-spattered and dog-eared, and had on its cover a drawing of an older kerchiefed black woman turning a ham on a spit in the yard. A more recent edition of the book, given to me by my father, has a photograph of a perfect bunch of flowers on a table. The history of many of the recipes in the book -- that the creation of this divine food was hard work, and that these dishes were often invented and produced by black women -- is thus obscured. I am not arguing in favor of images that perpetuate the image of black people as a servant class. But I'll say this in defense of Johnliu's friend: my (beloved) grandparents truly were bigoted, and their kitchen contained not a trace of the sorts of artifacts that distressed dretutz. The sensibilities behind the images or lack thereof are the thing.

    Years ago I gave my much-loved early edition of Out of Kentucky Kitchens to an African American friend who collects Mammy genre artifacts. I wanted the book to live with someone who understands that the word "nostalgia" has in its roots the words for pain associated with the past. I apologize in advance if this post causes pain to anyone.
    Lynn

  • John Liu
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I received an email from my friend. She's brined and smoked a pork rack for dinner tomorrow. Sigh, sure wish I could be there.

    A nibble she told me to try out: take a raw egg yolk, place it on some wax paper and half-freeze it, mold the half-frozen yolk into a ball; batter it with an egg wash and I can't remember if seasoning or bread crumbs are also used (but I'd try some salted panko); deep fry.

  • natschultz
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I like and dislike this kitchen - too much stuff to see it's beauty. First, I would not replace all the counters with butcher block - it's too much upkeep as a primary counter, especially next to the sinks. I would actually replace the table with a tall butcher block island and stools that pull under. I would actually keep the countertop tiles, but put a bright, retro tile backsplash on the wall - then the white counters will be a neutral resting place for the eye.

    I would build a custom cabinet above the fridge for sure.

    Most importantly - replace the clear glass in the cabinets in the main cooking area (fridge / sink stove area) with frosted glass - it is just way too busy seeing all the stuff inside - your eye has no place to rest. Perhaps try that frosted film to see if a frosted look works first.

    And, this might sound crazy, but I'd paint the cabinets matte black. Seriously, it would both ground, calm and modernize the space all at once. With so much natural light and glass it will not be too dark. Also, the reason the white counters look bad now is because they clash with the off-white cabinets. Get new hardware for the uppers(handles, not the nice latches /cup pulls). Paint the inside of the uppers an accent color that matches the new backsplash. The stuff just looks so busy on a white background. (The backs of my living room cabinets are painted a deep red and it actually makes the room seem much bigger because they recede into the distance, and all the books and nick-knacks form a cohesive picture, not like a bunch of random items shouting out at you).

    You can actually paint the outside of the upper cabinets in the dishwasher / table area a light color (coral would look nice with the green walls) and the inside matte black - the "clutter" will then look like a row of aged paintings. Chiarascuro.

    Also, I'd replace that hunky butcher block next to the stove with a sleek modern butcher block unit with stainless steel shelves underneath. Too much wasted space with that nifty antique butcherblock.

    And yes, add under-cabinet lighting!

  • elizpiz
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What a fascinating kitchen and a great post. Loved reading all of the comments here this morning. I don't have anything clever to add to the great suggestions that have been made, but am curious, John if you have bounced any of these ideas off her.

    I know an elderly couple (80 and 78), both in great health and full of life, who recently moved from their multi level - huge - home to a custom built one level bungalow. She is a collector of porcelain and has what is probably a priceless collection. The new home accommodates all of her treasures, but culled down and in a way that is more manageable and reflects the realities of their age. Your friend clearly loves all of those bits and pieces, accumulated through the years, but may in fact be ready to move on a bit.

    I'm sure we would all love to hear the outcome of this wonderful kitchen tale. Thanks for sharing.

    Eliz

  • pinch_me
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Marcolo- Play nice!

    That is impossible for some people. I've read other comments by Marcolo on the gardenweb forums. It's a pattern. I guess if someone doesn't think just like you, you just keep putting your PMS hostilities on them.

  • jakkom
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    johnliu, one thing to be aware of, as the suggestions keep rolling in - we discovered this with my 82-yr old MIL.

    The ability to discern contrast drops drastically as you age. By your 80's, you can only discern HALF the contrast you did when you were 40.

    IOW, think of the world in shades of gray, like a B&W photo. Now reduce the contrast, so that the shades of gray begin to run into one another.

    That's what happens with your eyesight as you age. Above I suggested Absolute Black granite/granite tiles as a possibility, but it might actually create a problem for her in the long run. She is accustomed to those white counters and thus everything on placed on it is a 'higher contrast'.

    Whatever changes she makes, the lighting is going to be crucial to helping her be happy with the changes.

    Thank you again for showing us this wonderful kitchen. It is so good to see something different and uniquely personal.

  • aliris19
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lynn in KY - your post raised goosebumps and itchy tears in my eyes. Somehow it encompasses what's complicated about making the slightest peep about changing this kitchen. It is steeped in the life of this woman. Johnliu - would she even welcome any suggestions from another about changing it? It just looks codified to me, even if there is an internal desire, even need to change it, I don't think there is a suggestion that could be made by another to the creator of that space that could possibly sit well. To me I see it and I wouldn't hesitate a ghost of a whisper of suggestion until I'd heard the owner stand up in a room and say "My name is xyz and I am a hoarder". Even if she wants to change it, she didn't get there except by digging a long, furrowed behavioral rut. I know, I've been there; am there. It's hard to change and deep down inside, you don't want to, really. You may love the look of those clean lines and you can collect all the inspirational pictures you want to, but keeping counters clear is a deeply ingrained thing. Detaching from politically incorrect tchakas would be like doing a bone marrow transplant on a healthy patient: unethical.

    So I agree that counter tile is a major change-worthy mistake and it sounds like she does as well. The comment about contrast and color and old-age seems very smart to me, as do suggestions about incremental counter-depth improvements like deeper overhang and cutouts. (ditto a pot filler for an aging gourmet mass-chef). But mandating the loss of the butcherblock or any of the umpteen toasters (that's *art*, guys!) or any of the time-sensitive cultural shockers strewn about -- it just makes me cringe to think of even mentioning their removal. I don't know this lady and maybe she'd be fine to hear the suggestions. But when I envision the owners of kitchens like this that I have known (I can think of several), there is not a one of them I have known who would not be mortally wounded to hear the suggestion to remove any of the tchakas. Politically incorrect tchakas == best cook == this kitchen == soul. You just can't go messing with the fibre of a person's existence without messing a person up. I'm guessing that stuff has really deep roots, just as Lynn references.

    Johnliu, much as you no doubt are beloved by this patron-cook, I'd tread lightly when it comes time to make suggestions. Stick to the pragmatic (e.g., light counter, deeper overhang) and stay away from the essence (i.e., "nostalgic" artifacts).

    And I'm glad you have the photos just as an archive for yourself if nothing else. Thanks for sharing. Makes me heartsick for certain beloved best-cooks of my own acquaintance.

  • farmgirlinky
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi, aliris,
    to me the collections in this kitchen don't rise to the definition of a hoarding syndrome, because it doesn't seem uncontrolled -- when you look at these photographs, the collections are well-edited -- more density than some might like, but that's a matter of personal taste and willingness to dust regularly, while hoarding syndrome is something else again. I agree with your recommendations for johnliu and the suggestions he might make to his friend after discerning just what the itch is that she is trying to scratch: the point is, this kitchen works, the proof is literally in the pudding. And I loved your invocation of medical ethics in deciding what to recommend, and agree with "primum non nocere" -- first, do no harm.
    Lynn

  • drbeanie2000
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Okay, I found this thread that's over a year old, by looking for something else - which I can't even remember.

    Was there a follow-up thread? What happened?

    bean