Smallhouse, no, they didn't smell at all. And I have one of those noses that doesn't miss a thing.

Maybe it is copier toner then. So weird. The idea that it's all the boxes in the shipment is even more mysterious. I hope you can strike an agreement you are happy with.

>Maybe it is copier toner then

Maybe, but that much toner would usually have a noticeable odor of its own.

It's not up to the buyer to say (or care) what was on the tiles. Their condition was unacceptable, the buyer could not bear the expense of the delaying the job. Plus, she had to expend a large amount of energy and time cleaning the tiles.

The dealer and the company should stand behind the product. This isn't budget stuff or seconds. A full refund is the right thing and the least they should do.

The FB post is a warning. I would not go social-media nuclear. Give them a chance to make the offer. But I wouldn't be shy about asking for a full refund in exchange for all the photos you took of the tile.

This post was edited by rococogurl on Thu, Mar 27, 14 at 23:54

Just a note from someone who experienced a fire.
The soot, if it were such, carries all kinds of chemicals from synthetics and things that burn. Bad stuff.

Restoration companies have something they clean with that neutralizes all that junk.

If it were copy toner, be aware that it is extremely flammable. Explosively flammable, actually. That and white-out. Go figure.

Do tell. How do they look on your wall?

I'm embarrassed to say that we had items that had been "cleaned" by the restoration company from our fire 11 yrs ago in a storage unit for the past 10 yrs. Example: my 33 yr old dds Jenny Lind high chair, 2 pack and plays that my 11 yr old twins used that I thought I might be able to donate, etc., my 25 yr. yr old dds crib,

Anyway to make a long story short...we thought that after this many years the odor would finally be gone. We just cleaned out the storage unit and all of these items still had the odor and had to be trashed.

So, if your tile has zero odor...it has not been in a fire. Those tiles would reek.

What in the world could it be?

Wow, I would be really concerned with what exactly that substance was. I hope they not only make this right but hopefully they can tell you what that substance was.

Also, I just saw your FB post. Is your profile pic your baby? What a cutie!!

That is awful about the tiles. But I wouldn't go all ballistic against Walker Zanger unless they decline to make it right. Mistakes happen even in the best of companies, but it is how mistakes are handled that separate the reputable ones from the slime. Actually, the place you bought from should be making things right by you, and dealing with WZ themselves.

For what it's worth, we ordered a significant amount of tile from Walker Zanger for our reno, and found them to be honorable and responsive to deal with.

Texas Gem, I'm getting more concerned about what the substance is and feel really annoyed with myself for not considering that more seriously before I plunged my hands into the stuff for 2 days. The ironic part is that the dealer gave me a bottle of tile cleaner and told me to use it in a well ventilated area because it stinks. I didn't end up using it because I was concerned about the chemicals.

Thanks for the compliment, the baby in the photo is my grandson. First grandchild and enjoying every second!

Sas95, that's good to know that you had a good experience with Walker Zanger. I had hoped that the dealer would follow through and get back to me. I brought one of the boxes by and they took a picture and said that they'd contact the company. They thanked me for my patience and handed me a bottle of tile cleaner. Then nothing. No feedback, email or phone call. I contacted them again yesterday and was promised that they'd call the company (again?) today. I'm hoping to find out something today.

Wow, I spent several hours on their website last night, and was so surprised to find your post this morning!

These are beautiful tiles, and I probably would have charged ahead into cleaning them too, just as you did, to salvage my project.

I don't know how companies make tiles like this in quantity, but the beautiful crackle detail looks similar to the crazing that results from the Raku pottery process. In that process, the fine ash from the firing process coats the ceramic pieces, and settles into the fine crazing in the glaze. This highlights the texture.

So, my guess is, the tiles were fired and then some clueless person packed them before cleaning them. I would be horrified too, after paying these prices, but I'm betting the substance is indeed some kind of ash/soot from the firing process, and probably not a harmful chemical.

The company should make this right for you, and/or respond to you, because they never should have shipped this way (of course!) I hope your installation is as beautiful as you had expected (I love the tiles.)

Mudhouse, thanks for the info. Your guess is as good as mine.

The merchant that I purchased these from never saw anything like this before, and they sell a lot of tile. Also, his wife makes her own line of tiles, so I'd assume that they'd be familiar with the process. Yet they were stumped. I asked if it was soot from the process and his answer was that it shouldn't be and was very doubtful that was the answer.

Still no answers, but I'll update once I learn anything.

Well, I still think you're on the right track, thinking the soot is from the crafting process. The merchant has probably never seen this before I think it's really rare for this kind of manufacturing/shipping snafu to get by the company (really, you should go buy a lottery ticket, with your luck!) :-)

Also, I think only a small percentage of the tiles on the market use a firing process designed to expose the glaze to ash, to darken the crackle. There are also many crackle tiles that don't have this "darkened" effect (meaning, the glaze is still crystal clear, afterward, with no antiquing of the tiny crazed lines.) It's just a different firing process depending on the desired end effect.

Congratulations on your first grandchild!

Why didn't the tile store inspect the shipment upon deliver? Isn't that the normal protocol?

Eve72, you're right, they should have. That's the other thing that I'm kicking myself for in this matter. I was so happy that the tiles were finally in, and it was late in the day when I picked them up. Normally I would have opened the boxes before I left.

So, according to Walker Zanger, it wasn't soot or smoke damage.

Smallhouse, you win the prize as you were the closest to guess correctly. They're saying that it was a stain, that's like an ink and is rubbed on for the crackle glaze.

I received both an email and phone call from WZ, almost simultaneously this afternoon. The person I spoke with offered me a $200 gift card. Then, when I wasn't thrilled with that, he offered to discount a future tile project. When I asked for more info about the 'stain' he laughed and said not to worry, that it washes off.

I responded back to the email, a marketing associate, and I've asked them to provide me with the MSDS sheet for the stain.

I've learned a very valuable lesson here. Inspect purchases before leaving the store and don't accept something in such deplorable condition simply because it's going to cost more time to send it back and start over. The man on the phone kept 'admiring my patience,' yet it was impatience that put me in this situation. I could have screamed. Almost did.

I really left myself in a vulnerable position with not a lot that I can do about this. My fault. Live and learn.

I am glad you are following up with finding out what the material was that you were handling all weekend. I think you may want to move this further up the chain. I don't think this is merely a "200.00 gift card or credit to spend more money on their product" type of problem they created. I would expect to hear that they were going to follow up to find out how and what happened and get back to you after that.

This post was edited by annalyn123 on Fri, Mar 28, 14 at 17:04

No, no. That doesn't sound legit at all. No customer should buy a brand new product and have to spend days cleaning it before use. That is ridiculous and I would go further up the chain for sure. You didn't get what you paid a pretty penny for, the end. You wouldn't accept a new car that had been driven through mud with the all the windows, trunk and hood open. Even if all the mud washed off, no one would think that was an acceptable business practice.

Late to the party but yowzers, don't that kind of stuff make you mad? Customer service went bye bye a while ago for most people, apparently.

You should figure out how many hours you spent cleaning the tile, multiply that times X and submit the amount to them. That is the amount I would expect to be discounted.

Unreal.

They seemed to have failed customer service 101, especially for a premium priced product. While mistakes do happen, and the tile store (and you) should have checked the shipment upon arrival, the situation does not seem to be handled very well at all.

I hope the dye used proves to be harmless -- I can't imagine it can be toxic if it was simply rubbed in.

BTW, keep the email; they acknowledged fault for the issue.

I'm truly sorry for your miseries. This is definitely one for the books here on GW.

Looking at the WZ example crackle tile a couple posts up, as well as you initial photos, it makes me wonder if the black could be dried "India Ink". India Ink is a fine soot (lampblack) mixed with water, to which a binding agent such as gelatin is added to make the ink more durable once dried. It is relatively inexpensive and is a stain (more commonly used in black and white pictures but other uses too). Just wondering...

I hope the mystery of your misery will be soon resolved by WZ who hopefully will make you whole for such Herculean effort to undo their manufacturing mistake.

Good luck.

You should post this link to walker zanger twitter and Facebook page, etc so the entire thread serves as caveat emptor to others. I am tempted to do the same though that may be violation of privacy of others here. I will wait a bit to see if others weigh in.

AJinNH, I just read through the whole thread kinda quickly so I may have missed this, but did you ever write to the head of the company?

I ask because I once emailed the head of a company on a much smaller matter, about a product that broke right away and I was disappointed in, and that I had taken back to the merchant who basically said "too bad". The reply I got was he asked for my address because he wanted to send a replacement and apologize, and wanted to know the store so their rep could address the issue. Although this was a smaller company, and a product from a luggage store, I was surprised and impressed.

Articles about effective complaining tell you to go to the top, and provide a solution that will satisfy you, i.e., don't beat around the bush.

And, as far as items in a fire smelling or not smelling--I think restoration companies also use some kind of ozone smoke/odor eaters to remove the smell. After my basement flooded, one of these was used to remove the lingering smells.

Anyway, I agree--they owe you more than $200.

So, are they saying, oh that black stuff? It's a stain for the crackle glaze. WTF?!! That black stuff that got all over your hands after you picked up one of their nasty tiles? Oh, hahahaha. Okay, here's $200 to make you forget all about it.

I would want all of my money back, including shipping/handling. Then I would give serious thought to the time you spent cleaning the tiles. Think about the amount that would make you feel not like an idiot.

Were you supposed to just install the tiles with all that stain on them? I'll bet it makes the grout look real good. Not!

I agree with others who have suggested that you might want to take this further up the chain. As a CEO or director, I would want to know about these types of issues with my product and service. Also, there is an old saying "don't take no from someone who doesn't have the power to say yes". You need someone who can authorize a serious win-win solution.

Good luck and thanks for sharing - we all learn from these types of experiences.

I'm on the board of directors for a large corporation for a subsidiary of theirs. You would not believe how thin margins are these days, $200 is probably all they can do. It boggles the mind how anyone is in business anymore. Many companies that we thought were wealthy beyond imagination are going bankrupt. Imported products are a nightmare and especially into the US market. I have felt for a long time what has been the upside of this? I am so sorry this happened to you. If it's any comfort, we are a trusting people and really we shouldn't have to keep checking and checking to be sure everything is ok before we leave the store. But sadly this is the world we live in post USA manufacturing era.

So what colors the crackle wouldn't have bled into the grout and colored that and messed up the install since it was all over the tiles?

Their offer is arrogant and not very smart business-wise. There is a right thing and they need to do it.

If companies don't understand that when they have a product fail, offering a discount for a consumer to purchase from them again is not a viable option. Unless a consumer is really dumb, which you aren't.

Have you tried calling another Walker Zanger distributor and innocently asking whether this is normal practice for these tiles? If you find that is not, then this is a product problem. If this is the way that ALL their crackle tile comes, then they should have a disclaimer!

Walker Zanger San Francisco
101 Henry Adams St #412, San Francisco, CA 94103
(415) 487-2130

I too am a great believer that social media may help you with this......it can create a lot of pressure on companies. You might think about leveraging that.

P.S. Gr8day: I do not believe that WZ tile has such a slim margin that the markup could barely allow for a $200 margin. Their tile is quite expensive and they have plenty of tile, like Ann Sachs, that is marked up well beyond most tile on the market. Not only that, but these days, if margins are that slim, then customer satisfaction should be of huge importance to them.

Okay, so I'm going to take a slightly different position here. If I understand it correctly, they sent you filthy tiles which you then proceeded to accept and clean. Now that you've gone through all the effort, are you content with the result - i.e. the tiles now look as you expected them to. If that's the case, then I agree that they owe you some kind of cash discount on your purchase - not a discount on a future purchase - but beyond that I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect any more. Clearly they could do more for you for goodwill but I'm not sure they're obligated to.

Had it happened to me, I would have rejected the tiles and demanded replacements or a full refund. I would not have wasted my time and effort cleaning them.

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.

Those of you who suggested that I take this further up the ladder have a good point. If I were the head of this company I'd want to know. I will do that on Monday.

I'm really not looking for something for nothing, or to be unduly harsh towards the people involved. But I have to admit that their responses so far have left me with my mouth open. The gentleman who called from WZ laughed through the entire conversation, and was making jokes. I'm sure he was just trying to lighten up the situation, but it had the opposite effect and I felt that he was minimizing the whole thing and it just ticked me off.

The tiles were installed yesterday. They look lovely. But, right now, every time I look at them I think of scrubbing that black stain off of all of them and how much time and effort it took both me and my husband to deal with the situation. And that someone had to KNOWINGLY put them like that into several boxes. Mistakes happen, but PLEASE, this didn't feel like an oops. Either someone was lazy or they left a job to someone who wasn't trained properly. It's really difficult for me to enjoy finally having the backsplash installed at the moment.

I'm not sure what would make me feel better about this company, but it hasn't happened yet. And, as I said before, I do own some responsibility in this for not sending them back right away. However, I paid for that with all of that scrubbing.

I have a feeling that a lot of people who might otherwise have done what I did, and left the store without opening the boxes, will not make the same mistake. Some comfort there.

"It boggles the mind how anyone is in business anymore. Many companies that we thought were wealthy beyond imagination are going bankrupt. Imported products are a nightmare and especially into the US market."

OK, in that case, even more reason that one should expect better customer service from US companies.

Ask to talk to someone higher up. Companies hire consultants for good money to tell them how they are doing and how they can improve. While you are not telling them how to run their company, you expect that they take your complaint seriously and compensate you for the time you spent scrubbing the tiles. So, laughing is hardly the right response.

200.00 for future tile work isn't going to cut it, especially since 200.00 at those prices doesn't get you very far. You'd have to add 1K to that for a future project. As an aside: Do you have any future tile work planned?

What do you think would be proper compensation, in addition to a proper apology?

The other question is whether you could sue in small claims court for the time it took you to clean the tiles. Call your local court and ask them.

AJ-

I'm so sorry for the run around that you are getting. They should discount this purchase not a future purchase--how much tile does one person need? (though maybe you could sell the credit to someone on this board who is going to order from them)

I'd love to see an installed picture! We have cygnus as well and are considering something over the range with pratt and larsen filigree tiles. Is that the filigree you were talking about? They are beautiful and I'm sure everything looks amazing!!!

Good luck!

ISSUE RESOLVED: I was contacted by the technical supervisor of Walker Zanger. This gentleman was sincerely apologetic about our experience with the tiles. He went out of his way to resolve the issue, including making sure that we get the MSDS information on the stain/ink. The information has to be translated into english, so it requires a lot of effort on his part to follow through with getting that to us, and I appreciate that effort. I feel that the company took this issue seriously and bent over backwards to make sure that we were happy with the resolution. They also reimbursed us a considerable portion of the purchase price as well as offered a discount on a future project. I feel much better about Walker Zanger as a company and will do business with them again. Mistakes happen and I feel that they handled this properly and that customer satisfaction was very important to them.

I'll post pictures soon of our beautiful new backsplash.

Great news! I'd post this to the FB page, too.
Looking forward to seeing your BS.

So happy to hear they made it right!

Can't wait to see pics!

Glad they took your concerns seriously and made things right!

That is such heartwarming news. Love that a company responded to your concerns and gave you such a satisfactory resolution. Did they ever give you an answer about what actually happened with that tile? Was it just an oops on their part and a few batches went out with the ink on them?

Well done.

Now this is how it's done! Very happy they have made you feel that you've been heard and they have responded properly.

I'm so happy to hear that things were resolved well!

Excellent news. Glad to hear that they took this serious. I wonder if your FB post encouraged them step up to the plate? I would like to think they would have followed through, even with out it. I look forward to your pics.

Glad to WZ made good. How did your backsplash turn out? Photos?

Here are a few photos of my backsplash. The filigree tiles behind the range top are from a different tile manufacturer. Our perimeter counters are Silestone in Cygnus. The lighting isn't great and they're not quite as blue as the photo suggests. I'm going to have more pictures once I post in the finished kitchen blog and will post a link in this thread.

This post was edited by AJinNH on Thu, May 1, 14 at 14:00

Here's a close up of the tile and counter.

The lighting is awful in this one.

One more view. I'm just waiting on a couple of final touches before taking better pictures.

Here's a close up of the filagree tile. You can't really see it well in the other photos.

Beautiful! Your whole kitchen is very pretty. What is the stone on your island? Love it.

The island granite is called River Bordeaux, FWIW, they call stones different names everywhere. Picking out the island and perimeter materials were the hardest part of the whole design. We're happy with our final selections, but honestly, it was awful getting there.
And thank you for the compliment. We love it!