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64reno64

Cabinet construction must haves??

64reno64
13 years ago

Hi -

We are pricing out cabinets and I am getting a little overwhelmed with all the different ways to construct boxes, doors and draws. Our budget should allow for mid range cabinets, but we are looking for ways to save where ever we can. Are there any absolute must haves in the way cabinets are constructed? No all particleboard boxes, right? Are plywood ends enough? If my doors will be painted, can I do veneer panels in the doors or should we stick with all wood? Do we need dovetailed drawers? Anything else Im not thinking of?

This will be a forever kitchen, and it will likely take a beating with 3 kids in the house, but we are on a tight budget.

We've looked at Greenfield, Diamond and will get a quote soon from Shiloh. Anyone else that we should consider?

Thanks.

Comments (23)

  • beaglesdoitbetter1
    13 years ago

    Depending on where you live, I would go to a local custom cabinet shop and get quotes. You might be pleasantly surprised by what you find (custom for us was about $15,000 less than medallion cabs!).

    Beyond that, everyone is probably going to have a different opinions of must-haves I'd think. Some people actually prefer to do panels in the center of the doors w/ painted cabinets because the wood expands/contracts more with changes in humidity and you get seams otherwise. As far as the other stuff, personal preference and budget will dictate. We wanted solid wood, finished ends, dovetail drawers, so those were most haves for us--- but might not be for everyone...

  • 64reno64
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Thanks. We are in NJ, and havent heard of many custom cabinet makers - I suspect that in our area, it would not be cheaper. But I will double check. The Amish cabinet makers are a good 2 hours from here.
    That is good to know about the expansion of wood with painted cabs - didnt consider it.

  • dianalo
    13 years ago

    With kids, the soft close drawers are wonderful.

  • 64reno64
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Dianalo, do your kids ever try to forcibly close them? I am wondering if my kids might end up breaking them!

  • ideagirl2
    13 years ago

    A two-hour drive to see the Amish folks' showroom will look like nothing if you get a quote from them like we did. About $11,200 for our entire kitchen, including a complete cabinet surround with floor-to-ceiling pullouts by the fridge. And the layout we gave them was for a 10.5 x 13-foot G-shaped kitchen--lots of cabinets.

    Must-haves vary, but if this is your forever house and you have kids, I would say definitely go for the dovetailed drawer boxes and the soft-close slides, and also no particleboard anywhere. Particle board does not last, especially under the stress that a large-ish household with kids (as opposed to, say, an older single person or a retired couple) would typically put on it. Let your budget dictate savings on other details--veneer, finishes, etc.--but not on fundamental infrastructure-type ones like the drawer boxes, slides, and absence of particle board. These details are the ones that will make it last, so you don't have to spend more money later to replace things that don't stand the test of time.

  • johnnyl53
    13 years ago

    You need to decide on what is really a must have and what is a want. Wants are not necessarily a must have, although for some people they are, because they have to have what they want.

    1) Will you have drawers that will be taking a heavy load? I'd check out the method of drawer construction as far as how the drawer front is attached to the rest of the box. Even with the best of full extension slides this part of the drawer gets a lot of wear. Dove tail is not a must but I would stay away from a simple butt joint.

    2) All plywood boxes are not necessary for all of your cabs. Our KD mixed and matched based on where the cab was located and the function to help hold down the price.

    3) As noted above, soft close is nice. Never had these before and they really help if you have someone in your house with a heavy hand. Check out soft close doors also.

    4) Make sure you have clearances for all doors that open and the necessary fillers.

    5) Even with a custom cabinet maker you will have choices as to construction so going that route may not alleviate what you need to decide on.

  • kateskouros
    13 years ago

    i'm in nj and my cabinet maker is phenomenal. really, the best i've ever worked with. kitchen is installed and we are now working on the drawer inserts. they're making custom fittings for my china, glassware, flatware and also some slide outs within the drawers. if you can think it, they can do it.
    and if you can't think it yourself, they can do that to!

    design line kitchens & bath
    sea girt, nj

    {{!gwi}}

    {{!gwi}}

  • summerbabies
    13 years ago

    You got some wonderful advice :-) But I would also at least get a quote from a custom cabinetmaker. Look on Craigslist or ask around. A woodworker's shop/lumberyard can probably recommend people.

    The Amish cabinets were $7,000 less than a retail dealer, and the custom cabinetmaker was $6,000 less than the Amish! I think part of both the Amish and retail quotes had to include shipping, though, which the local cabinetmaker obviously didn't need to charge. I was REALLY surprised, since I thought "custom" had to be synonymous with "expensive," although of course the Amish cabinets were custom, too. The retail ones were semi-custom. I'm getting very simple Shaker-style in natural cherry, no glaze or stain, and slab drawers. Pullouts in every base cabinet, full-extension soft-close drawers, and all-plywood boxes, except for the glass-fronted cabinets, which will be solid cherry.

  • 64reno64
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Kateskouros, your kitchen is amazing! I hope to obtain a similar look. It looks so high end - do you think its doable on a midrange (Diamond, Kraftmaid) budget?

    Ideagirl2, maybe I will check out the Amish makers. That is an amazing price. I guess its worth devoting a day to go out there. Ive heard of Dutchwood and Oxford, wonder if there are others in eastern PA I am missing.

    Johnny153, Thanks for the tips about drawer attachment to the box and plywood not necessary on all, depending on use. Didnt know you could mix it up like that.

  • 64reno64
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Summerbabies, I will check out custom. Just though they would be out of my price range, especially in this part of the country.

    And you are right again - the advice on this forum is priceless - just hope to be able to repay the debt when I have more experience. Thanks everyone!

  • beaglesdoitbetter1
    13 years ago

    Designnov there are a few others around the area- we went to all of them almost. Blue Mountain is one (craftylady I believe did her kitchen with them). Wellsford is another. The best prices we got were dutch wood and oxford and we went with dutch wood because we are getting more for the money, communication seemed easier (they have email for example) and their cabinets were beautiful

  • amy2202
    13 years ago

    Katekouros, what did you pay for your cabinets if you don't mind me asking?

    Ideagirl, do you have a web site or phone number of the cabinet maker you used.

    We are about to put a deposit down on our kitchen cabinets next week, but it sounds like you may have a much better cabinet for a lot less money.

    Thank You

  • kngwd
    13 years ago

    I am using Blue Mountain as well - found out about them on this site from Craftlady! Just put down my deposit and am hoping for a late April install (but might have cut that a little close!)....It took me less than 45 minutes to get to them in Bath, PA from Clinton, NJ and was well worth it! They are the same price as Kraftmaid (only plywood on the end cabs)from HD except included all plywood, hardware, apron sink base, 2 glass uppers, 2 lazy susans, rollouts - everything I wanted! Oh, and included installation!

    and kateskouros - love your kitchen!! Heading to my in-laws place in Sea Girt this weekend!

  • blubird
    13 years ago

    I'm also in central NJ and also have a wonderful cabinet maker. He's done a neighbor's and another friend's house as well. He's been in business for over 20 years and is so easy to work with.

    Helene

  • bh401
    13 years ago

    I vote for full extension, soft close drawers and dovetail joints(much much stronger than stapled butted corners.) Ever pull a drawer front off of a drawer because it stuck or was really heavy? And the full extension-you don't loose stuff in the "lost" part of the drawer that doesn't come out.

  • caryscott
    13 years ago

    Stapled joints are definitely the least desirable. If you go with good quality undermount full extension drawer hardware it isn't likely you will ever put your drawer fronts under enough torque to require dovetail joints. They are nice to look at but not required for longevity with today's drawer hardware.

  • Buehl
    13 years ago

    Unless they're really inexpensive, don't do soft-close doors...they're very easy to DIY. In our case they wanted $50 per door for soft-close, we bought the dampers ourselves for something like $4 each (1/door). They only take a minute or two to install for each (once you've installed one or two.)

    Must-have:
    Full-extension drawers
    Drawers! (instead of stationary shelves or Roll Out Tray Shelves (ROTS))
    Drawer construction - there are several types, but stay away from stapled

    Nice-to-have:
    Soft-close drawers

  • 64reno64
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Buehl, why do you like drawers over ROTS? I would think it would be easier to find things in ROTs, as opposed to trying to remember what each drawer holds. Maybe there is more storage space in drawers?

    Blubird, what is the name of your cabinet maker? Thanks.

  • dianalo
    13 years ago

    Drawers are better because you pull out the drawer with one motion and don't need to open 2 doors first to pull it out.

    My cabs are Ikea and came with soft close drawers automatically. I dare my kids to slam them and they can't. They pretty much gave up trying on day #2....
    I'd look into aftermarket as advised because they would probably be cheaper, although I am not sure if for drawers you have to do that as part of the construction or not. I know you can get the soft close for the cab doors from Ikea for a very good price. I have 2 ds and they are hard on things and always loud. The soft closes are fabulous for that reason.

  • summerbabies
    13 years ago

    Designnov, good luck! I am so happy with my cabinetmaker! As my KDs pointed out, she is local, so if anything ever goes wrong, she'll come over and fix it. She threw in the hardware for free, too. I went over to Louis and Company and picked it out on Wednesday.

    Also, and this is a BIGGIE, she is delivering the pieces as they are finished! Yay! She has a small workshop, and I already have a living room full of appliances, so I don't need a gigantic stack of cabinets in there or in the garage.

    She's doing the bar and buffet first, then the walls one by one, with the island last. So we should be able to install the wine fridge and fridge/freezer drawers in the bar, then the fridge and oven/micro in the pantry wall, then the sink and DW, so we will have a minimum of kitchen-less suffering :-) And a minimum of packing, as I can move things from the current cabs to the new ones. Only the granite will be installed after everything is in, then my lovely BlueStar RNB last of all :-)

    The GC seems to be balking--apparently he wanted to tear out the WHOLE kitchen, disappear, then come back eventually and install all the cabinets. I plan to speak sternly to him later today.

    Interesting about drawers vs ROTs. I will have both, but mostly ROTs. I have miserable, sucky, half-depth shelves in my current base cabinets and HATE them with a passion. I can't wait to pull out my ROTs and see my pots and pans neatly arranged, not STACKED in a teetering pile. I have big stockpots and giant roasting pans, so I need height for them. I am putting the lesser-used pots in a lazy susan in the island, since my pot rack is going away *sniffle*

  • blubird
    13 years ago

    designnov,

    I'll be happy to share...his name is Russ Morin and he works out of the Farmingdale/Howell area, but he travels extensively throughout NJ and even Staten Island. He's easy to work with via email....russdmorin 'at' comcast dot net. (replace 'at' with @). Tell him Helene G sent you.

    This was the least stressful reno I've ever had. At the end of last July, Russ ripped out my old kitchen in one day. Two days later the electrician came and spent 2 days putting in new lines. Then, I had the flooring people in to tear out and replace 700 square feet of ceramic tile. That took 6 working days - Monday through Saturday. Russ came in on Monday bringing the cabs, installed them on Monday and Tuesday. Came back on Wednesday for about 1/2 day to finish the details. Granite templating done the next day....Installed a few days later. Electrician back to finish mounting the pendants and UC lighting, plumber hooking up the DW and disposer and DONE!! Less than 6 weeks from start to finish!

    Helene

  • cflaherty
    12 years ago

    Blubird,
    I live in Howell and doing a kitchen reno.
    Do you have any before and after pics of your kitchen reno?
    What was the approx size of your kitchen?
    Do you mind sharing what the final cost of your cabinets were?
    Thx

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