Just to clarify terminology- an interior design firm would by definition help with materials and finishes. They may or may not be able to do a kitchen layout.
A kitchen design firm would by definition be doing kitchen layout. They may or may not be able to help with materials and finishes.
In each case- some do, some don't, do both.

How long will also vary. Some places will meet with you and then "call when it's ready", others will make appointments for you to look at drafts.
Best case is going to be two weeks to first draft, and as frequent as weekly revisions. Worst case can be a month and then ...uh..depends, . Best bet is to ask up front what to expect and see if it meets your needs.
Total length of time to a final design depends on how:
decisive you are, much you change things along the way, well the designer understand you and what you want, complicated the project is, and time between revisions.
One other factor is for the initial draft- do they present only one solution and then work from there? or several options to narrow things down.

It is common for it to take 2-3 mos before ordering, 6 is not out of the question, 1 is rare (except maybe at box stores or high volume dealers). I've had some people move in :)

Given what you want, you may also want to take a trip to Big Box. Unless you catch them at an off moment, you'll probably need to make an appointment for the next day, but you never know. You can use the time on the first trip looking at what they have on display. The advantage here is that when you sit down with the "designer," you'll have a layout in hand that you can take home at the end of the session. The disadvantage is that your "designer" can range from fairly clueless to highly accomplished - you never know. I'm assuming here that you already have your kitchen space measured out. If not, that's another appointment - all free, so that's nice.

When you sit down to work on the layout, you'll need to specify what line of cabinets you want to use for layout purposes. This is because different lines have different dimensions. Everybody has sink bases in several sizes and 15" base cabinets with drawers, but it's an unusual kitchen where all the dimensions of the space and the cabs will match up perfectly. Some lines will let you add and subtract inches easily, but others will only let you work in 3" increments which may or may not fit your space. When things don't fit perfectly, then you're into fillers. Some fillers are just space taker-uppers and others are necessary for practical reasons. Some cabinets by their very function need an extra inch next to them so their doors open properly. This is a 13" depth upper cabinet next to a 24" depth pantry that needed an extra inch for the door to open properly.

These are frameless cabinets, so the "normal" space between individual cabinets is 1/4" which is built into them. Next to a deeper cabinet though, we needed to add in this 1" filler. We have another gap where the peninsula butts up to the wall. In that case, we needed extra space so the drawer could open next to the wall, but even more so the drawer face would clear the trim on the room doorway - we almost missed that one!

This is one of the reasons that when you're doing a "real" layout, as opposed to a general concept, you need to work with a specific line of cabinetry. They don't all go in the same making it impossible to produce a generic plan that can be applied to whatever it is you decide on down the line. There is no reason though that you can't make a plan using X cabinets and later do another using a different line until you refine what you want.

Thanks so much for the reply Jackuvall and Suzanne's. I'll be a bit more specific. My cabinets will be inset, custom made. If it's made of wood, my cabinet guy can make it. I've already chosen my appliances, exact hood style, cabinet paint color, counters, hardware, toe kick style, you name it. I know exactly down to how many bevels on the wood top on the island. Everything except lighting and floor layout.

I have an 8' wall and a 9' wall and will have a rectangular island in the middle. I hired a very high profile/well known design firm to basically tell me if the range looks better on this wall or that, shape and size of island (rectangular), help design the wall with cabinetry and fridge, and to help choose lighting, then draw it all up for me so I can present it to my cabinet maker.

How long would you think this would typically take on the designer's end? My retainer was paid December 18th, we are now into March. All I've received thus far is two very simple conceptual drawings not to scale, basically just an outline of my space with shapes. Both were the same layout with two different shaped islands to choose from. We have had one proper one hour phone conference. Not to mention promises to set up weekly-biweekly phone meetings which never happened (on their end, Im available at a moment's notice).They are located out of state.

I forgot to mention that two designers were assigned to my project, not just one. I personally think it's unacceptable that we're now into March, and since Dec 18th, I've gotten just the two simple drawings and a one hour meeting.

Thoughts?

Oh, I forgot to mention, they are an interior design firm with a very strong kitchen design side. Their kitchens have been featured in books and several magazines, and most recently on the cover of a popular kitchen magazine. Their work is stunning.

That wouldn't work with my clients.

Are you a designer Jakuvall? Can you give me a little more input as to what I should expect?

My mistake. I thought you were at the beginning of this process. No, it doesn't seem reasonable that it takes 2.5 months to draw up a plan. It sounds like you're on their back burner for when they have nothing better to do.

That's exactly how I feel Suzanne. At the tune of $150/hr with a $1000 retainer, I would have expected much more. There are about 7-10 designers that work there. Do you suggest I ask the owner for a new set of designers (she gave me two), or should I ask for my $1000 retainer back and move on?

The final straw was when I emailed the designer asking how progress was going (I've rarely heard from her). A week later I still hadn't received a reply so left a message on her voicemail to contact me. Two days later, after still no reply, I called early morning and spoke with the secretary and made it VERY clear this was unacceptable etc, and had the secretary speak to her and tell her to call me.

I received an email reply that night saying she'd call me Monday, with an attachment of the conceptual drawing, all she had so far. Excuse me? We already went over the shapes more than a month ago? I did email back saying I was unhappy and several dates of each time she dropped the ball by not responding, not calling when she said she would, etc.

So do I go with another set of designers from this firm or go with another one? I haven't talked with the owner yet.

I'm not sure why you needed a special design team for the work you require and why they haven't delivered. Yes, it's time to cut them loose and get back whatever money you can, as essentially they've taken your money for nothing. They sound like scoundrels. They must have other complaints against them. I would check into it.

gidgetgirly- I'm a KD. As I said in first post

How long will also vary. Some places will meet with you and then "call when it's ready", others will make appointments for you to look at drafts.
Best case is going to be two weeks to first draft, and as frequent as weekly revisions. Worst case can be a month and then ...uh..depends, . Best bet is to ask up front what to expect and see if it meets your needs

I'd agree with suzannesl- back burner.

Thanks for the response may_flowers. I hired a design firm to draw up professional plans to give my cabinet maker. He and I don't have the same style so he is of no help in that department. I don't have the tools or skills needed to draw anything up. I need help in determining the correct size island for my space without it looking too large or small, and so that it correctly fits the stools I've chosen.

I'm also not very good with lighting. I know what I like, but am not able to envision it in my space, size wise etc. I have an open floor plan so it all needs to flow. I also wanted their help in designing the wall of cabinetry with the fridge. Deciding between a French door style or two separate columns. Again, I know what I like but have a hard time visualizing it all together and if it will all flow seamlessly with placement.

Thanks for the input Jackuvall :(

I do understand that. What I don't understand is why you needed to go out of state for the design work. We used a lot of email with our KD, but we got so much more accomplished when we'd meet face-to-face in 60-90 minute blocks.

If you get rid of that design firm, where do you go next to get your floor plan?

May_flowers, I went with the out of state design firm because all the ones I checked out in my area tend to push cherry cabinetry and French country or Italianate style. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just not my style.

I found the out of state design firm from their extensive work that's been published in magazines, as well as their photos on Houzz. Their style is very similar to mine. It would have been nice to find someone in my area with my same vision but no luck.

It was pretty much a dream of mine to work with the out of state company, I admire their work very much. I was so thrilled and excited that I was able to do so. I do have two other companies in mind, (both out of state unfortunately), who's work is similar to my original choice.

I researched this company before hiring them. Rave reviews across the board. That's what I don't understand.

I've never hired a designer, but what did THEY tell you the process would be? I would assume that dates, timeline and process would have been discussed in the initial meeting. Sounds like either they don't want or need your business, or there was a misunerstanding about their process. Or maybe the firm is mismanaged? It would be great if you were working with the principal but not great with the associates?? What do you want to happen? It sounds like you don't trust them so I'm not sure I'd want to continue to work with them, if it was me. Or do you need to get a refund?

in my area tend to push cherry cabinetry and French country or Italianate style.
Don't see much of that here nowadays. In any case- a decent KD should have no trouble crossing over to different styles. We are not supposed to be putting a personal stamp on things and are often trained how to mimic styles. Biggest problem there is that you would need an independent and they are not common.

Interior designers occasionally are hired for their "style" but those are a little less likely to be effective with kitchen layout. That varies of course.

Definitely time to speak with the owner. Something's going on and he/she needs to explain it to you as well as offer a remedial plan. It could be as simple as they overbooked themselves, but whatever it is, they need to sit up and pay attention. Be prepared with a timeline including when you contacted who and what they promised in the way of progress. Don't forget the unanswered emails and dates missed/abandoned. After you do or don't get a satisfactory explanation, you can decide whether or not to jump ship.

Kiko, I discussed the process with the owner on my first initial call. No dates or timeline has ever been discussed, just how the process is executed step by step. My fault as well as theirs for not discussing timeline. I just assumed it would be done in a somewhat timely manner.

What I'd like at this point is to either get reassigned to two new designers within the firm who will keep the project going, set up weekly or bi-weekly meetings as promised, return my phone calls and emails, and who will be interested and excited about my project. I understand I'm not the only client they have, but the level of service and communication has been unacceptable.
I'm also torn between wanting a refund of my retainer and moving on to a new company. I can't imagine the entire company is like this, I'm hoping it's just the designers I've been assigned to. I'm beginning to think the lack of service its because my home won't be featured in a magazine, nor is my husband a well-known NFL celebrity.

Thanks Suzannes. I do have my dates and all emails. I think I will do what you suggested. The owner was so nice and down to earth when I spoke with her the one time, initially. I think I'd like to get reassigned, and am hoping I don't have to pay for the time logged with the first two, which by their calculations, has been a total of 3 hours they've billed me for so far (coming out of my $1000 paid retainer).

I guess when you look at it like that, it's pretty ridiculous. 3 hours in 2.5 months.

I'm confused why you needed to select the out of state company based on their style. You say that you have picked all the finishes and just want someone to provide a layout and lighting plan. Any design company can do that, it isn't a style issue.

Overall your choices just seem a bit strange. If you have they money and are incapable of making decisions on design and finishes I can understand hiring some hoity toity design firm, but thats not what you want. All you want is a layout. To be honest it seems like you selected the fancy design firm because you want a fancy name associated with your kitchen.

I'd fire the fancy firm and just find someone who can offer a functional layout. There are plenty of companies that offer great service even if they aren't some big name you saw in a magazine.

Hi realism, thanks so much for taking the time to reply.

I understand how words read on a screen can be misinterpreted, therefore I won't take offense to your statement "it seems like you hired a fancy design firm because you want a fancy name associated with your kitchen".

First of all, no one around here has even heard of the 'fancy design firm'. I didn't even know they existed until I realized the majority of pages ripped from magazines were from their firm, as well as the majority of photos I've saved to my Houzz account. The only person who even knows of this firm that I personally know is my sister, and only because she just built a house, has the same taste as me and also had many of their photos saved.

Secondly, the issue is not why I hired who I hired. The issue I've asked advice about is, is it common practice when hiring a design firm for it to take this long with little communication.

I apologize if my choices seem strange to you. But they are my choices and I didn't choose them because they were a 'big name'. I chose them because I love their kitchen design and the reviews of the company were stellar. Frankly I could have cared less if they were a tiny little unknown one person company.

Again, my apologies if I interpreted it wrong. Thank you for taking the time to answer, and I will definitely take your advice to heart.

Designers that can't design outside their own style preferences aren't good designers. That goes for ones with national reputations of designs that you like, as well as local ones in styles that you don't. And that goes for cabinet makers as well. If your guy can only do one style well without having direction, then he's not a very good cabinet maker either. He might be a good woodworker, but there is a lot of difference between the two roles.

Did you ask enough questions of the local people to determine their abilities? Just because they display locally popular styles doesn't mean that they don't have the ability to do something else. And just because a design firm does a lot of things you like doesn't make them competent at the business end of the job.

Really, you could get everything you want for free from this forum if you were willing to put in a little work on your side. You need a good contractor/installer on your end. That's the first requirement. The second requirement is a good semi custom cabinet line. With those two elements, you should be able to get darn near anything that you want without waiting 3 months for 2 hours of work.

Get your money back. YOU are not a priority with two of thier designers. Why would two be assigned? Doesn't sound like much work is involved. You said it. You will not have a magazine kitchen or are a celebrity. If thats what they are used to, why work with you. Of course the owner might be different but its not the owner working with you. If you call the owner and complain they will get on the designers case about it. They will be annoyed, what kind of design will you get from people who do not want to design your kitchen? 'nuff said.

I 2nd what Hollysprings said. Post your stuff here and you will get great and FREE advise. I think you will come away with enough to take to your cabinet maker. You cabinet make can't be that clueless, if they are, run.

gigetgirly, I know what it is like to start questioning your design options. For me, even though I know exactly what I want with regard to 90% of my choices, the kitchen reno has been a process fraught with peril. I am sure everyone here feels your pain.

I wonder if this firm has been a victim of their own success and have inadvertently taken on more clients than they can serve? Good luck.

Hey, guys, let up. gidgetgirly already established this relationship with these designers for reasons I understand perfectly. It may not be what you or I would choose to do, and maybe not what she would have done in hindsight, but it's done. Her question was what others had experienced on the timeline front when they used a design firm. She has to figure out a way to get from where she is to where she wants to be. That's something we can help with.

gidgetgirly, I get that you don't feel confident to lay this all out yourself, and you didn't like what you were seeing locally. If only that ridiculous woman who "designed" her kitchen with 6" of counter space and who stores her Le Creuset collection on top of the stove had had the good sense to look for design help as you did. Holly is right that decent designers should be able to design out of their comfort zone, the operative word being "should." If nowhere else, we've all seen examples here of professionally designed kitchens that lacked common sense. If things don't go well on Monday and you sever your relationship with this firm, you might consider drawing up your kitchen specs and the location of important stuff like where the plumbing is and letting the design people here have a go at it. One of those people wouldn't be me because, personally, I get cross-eyed when I look at plans. I do much better standing in a space and visualizing it in person, which pretty much only works at my house. Everyone here wants your new kitchen to be just the one that you envisioned when you began this journey. I hope these designers get it together and give you what you want, but if not, don't despair and settle for the thing you don't want.

From the additional information that you've supplied in this thread, I get the long distance impression that the designers might want to bow out of your project gracefully and don't quite know how to tell you "no". So, they're ignoring you. That's not good business practice, but it also explains how they get glowing reviews from people who complete projects with them. The projects they are interested in receive attention, and the others wither on the vine and never move forward to completion to never receive any negative reviews.

Thank you all so much for taking time from your Saturday to respond to my post. I know how busy we all are, and every response does mean a lot to me.

Thank you also Suzannes, for sticking up for me. This is the only blog I have ever posted on, online, and it's hard when reading posts online, rather than face to face, to interpret the sentiment behind it.

In the past, I have envisioned how I want a room to look and function. I have tried to design it myself through big purchases such as furniture, down to smaller things such as paint color. Unfortunately, I have had many missteps, and have wasted my money when it's all come together, to find that the spaces just do not 'work'. Be it through furniture that is too large or too small, or a paint color that is too warm or cool. Hence the hiring of a design team.

My hope is to collaborate with a designer who shares my same vision, taste and style, while guiding me through functionality etc. Helping to save me from bad design choices or an inefficient work triangle.

Thank you all again. I am contacting the owner on Monday and I'll keep you all posted.

Gidget,

Is this the first time you have hired a designer? I have a friend who is having trouble dealing with an interior designer as part of her job and I think it's because she doesn't understand the typical designer's business model. Much and often most the compensation comes from the sales of marked up products to the client, not the design itself.

Does this firm regularly do design only work or it is possible that they don't see enough profit or design control in your job to make it appealing to them?

Californiagirl, no, this is not the first time I've hired a designer. I hired one once before for my kids' bathroom remodel a few years ago. She wasn't with a firm, just a designer who's style I admired on the Internet. She was also out of state. She chose the vanity, sink top, faucet style, lighting, wall decor and tile. I used all of her ideas minus the tile (I chose something different), and the result was fabulous. I still love it to this day and feel it was worth every penny.

The scope of our project was much smaller. And again, it was just one single designer who loved coming up with bathroom ideas. It took us a total of 3 weeks to achieve the final plan and she sent samples of tiles to my house, along with a few inspiration boards for me to choose from. I did not buy anything from this designer in the way of products and she knew that going in. She chose things from stores local in my area that I purchased myself.

She was prompt, returned phone calls and emails immediately. She's a small designer and not very well known. I'm sure she doesn't have near the clientele as the design firm.

If my project isn't appealing to the firm, the job should not have been taken on. My money spends just the same as everyone else's. I understand that a designer makes money from the sale of products etc. The owner assured me that they take on out of state projects who want to pay an hourly rate and do not purchase goods.
I just wasn't sure, when working on a larger project with a firm vs a single designer, if my experience is typical, or if I'm asking too much. Looking at it as 3 hours in 2.5 months, I don't think I am.

I honestly don't think the fault lies with the owner or the company. I seriously doubt the owner knows about any of this. We'll find out Monday. Just because there's one bad grape in the bunch doesn't mean they're all bad. I guess I will see.

I'm a hairstylist and there have been many salons I've worked at over the years where the majority of stylists were professional and talented. But then you always have one or two stylists who slack off. The owners and managers typically have no idea until the complaints start rolling in. Those stylists either quit or are let go. I'm hoping this is the case in my situation and hopefully I can be assigned to someone else or just move on.

Hope you will be able to get your problem resolved on Monday. Just wanted to let you know my experience with an independent designer for my kitchen remodel. She does interior/exterior residential design as well has well as medical/professional office design. She did not represent any particular cabinet lines or other products but could definitely have recommended. She did offer consultation services for all aspects of decorating/ finishing the space and would have gone shopping with me if I wanted her to. She did not get any commission on products or materials.

She initially came to the house to look at our space, take some measurements and discuss the project. She came back with preliminary layout within a couple days. We discussed changes and she drew up additional plans with those changes. We received the new layout within a week. We meet at her office soon after that to further nail down the design.
We exchanged some email during these initial steps and she came back to the house to firm up her measurements. Within 3 weeks we had working copies of the plan for the ourselves, the contractor and the cabinet maker.

I did not use her to help pick out counters, lighting, appliances, colors or anything else because I wanted to keep costs down. We received a professional discount but still paid $100 dollars per hour for her services and her travel time to our house. She gave us a detailed account of the hours she devoted to our project and it amounted to 31hours over a 4 week time span.

You definitely should have had more action on your project and there is really no excuse for the designer not calling back or following up with you. Unfortunately that is the way some people operate. My husband in his business dealings has previously been very frustrated by manufacturers reps. and even colleagues that do not get things done in a timely manner, don't answer their phones or respond quickly to text messages/emails.
If you can not get your retainer back or at least a good portion of it then insist on getting a designer who has a good work ethic and will get it done sooner rather than later. I hope you can actually leave this design company behind and find a new one. I have a feeling the owner knows how her employee operates or if she doesn't its about time she learns.

Good luck to you

Just out of curiosity, could you post one of your inspiration pics? Or maybe a link to a houzz pic with a design that you like? I've kind of formed a picture in my head of what that might look like, but now I'm curious if I'm even in the same ballpark.

Hi Gidgetgirly - You are so much calmer than I would have been in this situation! But I do think it's time now to "cut bait". I have to agree with Debrak's point above that even if the owner now "forces" her staff KD's to come up with a plan for you, you run the risk of it being, like "ugh, let me throw something together for this person so that I can tell my boss I did it."

Wondering why you aren't using the fabulous designer who did your kids' bathroom to work on your kitchen?

I am also concerned with the couple of side comments you made about your cabinet maker. If you and he are not gelling 100% now, in these early stages, it will only get worse. Believe me when I say it.

Can you find a semi-custom cabinet company in your area? My experience is that I am hopeless at both layout and picking colors. So I used a local semi-custom manufacturer--not a single-lone-cabinetmaker-guy, but a company with a local factory--and relied on their KD for my layout. He did a fabulous job! Look, it's all he does, all day, all week, all year, is cabinet layout for residential kitchens. So he knew his business. There was no extra fee for his layout; they make the money out of the cabinet sales. Then I hired an interior designer to help me with countertop choice, backsplash, and wall paint color, and paid her by the hour. We went to a few tile stores together (approx. 4 hours total), and a few granite yards together (more like 8 hours total, cause I needed to go to several stone yards). I chose the appliances and fixtures myself. If you could find a semi-custom cabinet company, and work with their KD, along with help from this forum, I think you will be much happier with the result.

Where do you live? You could post a thread - "anyone know of semi-custom cabinets in [X] area?"

I am SO concerned that when someone runs into problems in these early stages, it is a really bad sign for later when the project gets underway.

Hi akchicago! I totally agree with everyone that I don't want to use this particular designer (or both as I was assigned to a team) for my project as it's obvious she has no excitement about it or interest in it. I'd like to first speak with the owner about being reassigned to a new team who would love to take on the job.

The reason I say this, is because as a hairstylist, I'm typically the one in the salon that is given the disgruntled client (from other hairstylists), or color/haircut corrections. I absolutely love the challenge. I understand when clients don't receive the service they deserve, I am very good with empathizing, and it's so fulfilling to me to go above and beyond to get the job done and make the client happy. It really makes me feel good to put a smile on that client's face and for them to LOVE their hair! I'd like to give the owner the chance to perhaps approach my situation in the same way.

As far as the cabinet maker, I'm sticking with him. He did my sister's kitchen, bathrooms and laundry room cabinets, as well as two of her friend's homes. The workmanship and service was absolutely excellent in all of them. They're all beyond pleased. The price is excellent, he's a smaller company.

I'm going with the same style cabinetry as my sister, in a different color. My sister did tell me that the cabinet maker prefers a French country style, and the ideas he drew up for her (from a design perspective) weren't her style at all. She and I have the same style. I totally understand what you're saying though!! And I really appreciate your concern :)

I'm not of the same mindset that if the cabinet maker can't come up with a good design, he's not a good cabinet maker. I had a contractor finish my basement. He drew up a design for it. It was awful! I actually ended up designing it myself (that's the one space that worked out for me when going it alone haha!) and it turned out amazing. His workmanship was excellent, his design skills...not so much :)

Besides just layout, I have a door pantry I wanted to turn into a Butler's pantry, if it would even look right. I'd like a designer to do that so it flows with the rest of my space :)

I did try to do a drawing and post it on here quite awhile ago. Obviously I don't know what I'm doing because I guess I drew two elevations on the same picture. Half the kitchen was as if you're looking down on it, and the other part was looking at it head on. No one could understand it haha! :) The drawing thing is not my forte lol ;)

Akchicago, I never really thought about using the bathroom designer for my kitchen. I don't know if she does kitchens, I bet she could do it! Thanks for that idea, if it doesn't work out with this firm, I think I'll shoot her an email. She's certainly a lot less expensive!

Oh, sorry, I forgot one more thing. My cabinet maker isn't just one lone guy, he has other people who work for him too. He does have a factory. It's a smaller company.

Gidgetgirly, what ever happened with the design firm? Did you part ways with them? There is so much to learn in this process. I wish I had spent months just reading this forum before I started visiting showrooms. I think I would have known which questions to ask and would have been able to communicate my vision more clearly. Every day, my vision gets tested and refined and the advice I've received here (not always what I want to hear!) has been invaluable. I do think someone local could help you with a layout. Would the designer who helped with your bathroom be able to advise on finishes and colors? I know, I know, I know that having a good partnership with your designer is important... but I also know how it feels to be smitten with a "look" or in my case, a particular cabinet. I do not feel very comfortable with the KD who sells the cabinet I like best and I am struggling to figure out how to proceed. (And I mean, this cabinet makes my knees weak!)