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busybme

HELP w/ apron sink retro-fit, please!

busybme
14 years ago

I have a copper apron front sink, 33" wide, that I am using in my kitchen facelift. My carpenter started the retro-fit of our current 33" sink base cabinet. The sink is constructed with a bowed apron and a flat 2" top-flange runs the perimeter.

As it sets now, the sink fits fine into my cab. The plan was for the flange to sit on the side panels of the cab and the granite would run straight over it, offering a slight negative reveal at the sink.

The problem is that it is tooo low, at only 34.5" from the floor to the top front edge of the sink. This is a detail that I just didn't think of when I ordered this sink.

How have others of you handled this? I'm sure it has been encountered before and I am trying not to panic.

Here are some pics:

Sandy

Comments (19)

  • brickton
    14 years ago

    Sandy, so the top of your sink doesn't align with the top of the cabinets next to it? Is that what you are saying? If it is, there are plenty of options.

    One that would rock would be to add a brace on sides of the cabinet it sits in, in order to lift it up the .25" or whatever it needs. Then add faux cabintry legs on the front to disguise the gap between the sink and the front face of the cabinet. It would add interest, hide the fix and help that big ol' apron feel like it's more connected.

    If I'm not understanding the question, please clarify what isn't lining up. In the photo the cabinet to the left and the sink look like they are really close to lining up. If it is under 1/4" there may be a caulking option, but that would likely look a little less clean.

  • live_wire_oak
    14 years ago

    34 1/2" is standard height from the finished floor to the top of the cabinets/underside of the countertop. It looks like your sink lines up fine. I'm not understanding the problem, unless you think it's too low for comfort for your back. And, any undermount sink would be that low, so once again, I'm unsure of the actual problem here.

  • steff_1
    14 years ago

    That low apron sink can be a problem. You can flush mount the sink at counter height to raise it 1.5". There would be a tiny gap between the counter and the copper flange that can be caulked. Perhaps someone can recommend exactly which caulk it is. There have been discussions here before, but I couldn't find the best one while searching just now.

  • busybme
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Sorry for the confusion. Here is a sketch of how I planned to install the sink...hope it helps:

    {{!gwi}}

    The sink sits fine on the sink base cabinet with no interference from the drawer bank next to it.

    Normally, an undermount sink has countertop in front of it, so it 'feels' 36" high. I will not have my counters run in front of the sink but just up to the edges of it. Because of this, when I stand at the sink it only reaches 34.5" high.

    If I just add a riser under the flanges (to raise the sink) then the granite cannot run over them, as they will be higher than the rest of the countertop.

    I could have the entire run of cabinets raised? I could treat it like a drop-in sink (REALLY don't want to do this)?

    UGH!!

  • brickton
    14 years ago

    Uhm okay at the risk of sounding like a jerk: Did you just not understand how apron sinks look when you have the countertop run over them (ie undermounted)? Because if you undermount an apron sink the lip of the sink will look 1.5" lower than the countertop around it. That's expected. It's part of the look of undermounting one.

    If you want the front lip of the sink to be even with the countertop, then you must have a different installation all around the sink. You could raise the sink up level (or beyond as the case in the first one):

    I apologize if I'm still not getting it, but are any of these the 'look' you wanted? Or were you going for something else entirely?

  • busybme
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    I appreciate you responding (even at the risk of sounding like a jerk), brickton.

    I am familiar with the traditional mounting options for a sink like this. But, because I have never worked in one before, I didn't realize how low they are.

    I was just over at the finished kitchen blog and looked at many examples installed the way I had intended (like the first two pics you posted, brickton). Maybe everyone is living with a 34.5" tall sink height and it doesn't bother them?

    I am 5'8" and I think that scrubbing potatoes or peeling shrimp in a sink that height will be a problem for me, back-pain-wise. I think I may have to raise the entire height of the countertops, either through a riser-platform under the cabs or a thicker (looking?) countertop w/ a riser under the sink.

    Are those of you with apron/farmhouse sinks all living with this range of sink height? How does it work for you? Ideas are greatly appreciated!

  • steff_1
    14 years ago

    There was a thread on this issue and I can't find it. One of the solutions I remember was a grid in the bottom to raise up a bit and use a bowl on the grid. If you have a problem with drips on the front, put a dish towel over the front while doing dishes.

  • Circus Peanut
    14 years ago

    I'm 5'8" and having the edge of my farm sink exposed in front doesn't bother me.

    How deep is your sink? The salient factor is not the height of the sink rim from the floor but the height of the sink bottom from the floor. That's where back issues might come into play (how far down do your arms have to stretch to pick up things and reach the strainer?). If your sink is really deep, that distance is further.

    Your sink bottom will be the exact same height from the floor (and thus the exact same reach distance) whether you have granite covering up the front rim or not. Honestly. ;-)

  • busybme
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    I'm sorry that I am having such a hard time explaining my issue. And I appreciate everyone's response so far. : )

    circuspeanut, my sink is only 8.5" deep, so that may help. The apron is 9" deep.

    I was never planning on granite running across the front of the sink. I have always been planning a standard apron-front sink installation, like this:

    But, when I currently work at a sink, I often bend slightly and rest my forearms on the front lip, especially when doing tasks that take a lot of time. At the 34.5" height, it no longer feels natural to do this.

    I know from having been reading GW kitchens for almost 2 years that most people love their apron sinks and say they are the most comfy they've ever used. So maybe I am worried about nothing?

    Sandy

  • bmorepanic
    14 years ago

    When you use it, it will feel about the same as a drop in - except you'll be able to get closer to the dishes. The only thing that's different,really, is a slightly lower lift over to put stuff into the dishwasher or lift out clean pots. It's a minor adjustment and you won't notice it after about a week.

    If the entire sink bottom is too low (8" plus 1.25" countertop, you'll need a grid for the bottom to boost the bottom level back up about an inch.

  • busybme
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Ok...I'm going to stop fixating on this for awhile.

    I have granite fabricators coming in the next few days to prepare their quotes and will get their opinion but, based upon what you all are saying, it may just take getting used to.

    Thanks everyone. : )

  • sombreuil_mongrel
    14 years ago

    Hi,
    I'm a 6' tall guy, and I have an apron sink... and it's not a problem. In fact, I think it's better for your back than a regular undermount sink because the front is right out there with no reach-over to get in the sink. I mean the strip of countertop 3" wide that has to be there for regular undermount sinks. Fear not!
    This isn't meant to take anything away from apron sink owners who decided to up-mount them so that they were flush with (or higher than) the CT. That's fine, too.
    Casey

  • pinch_me
    14 years ago

    Have you stood in front of your sink with your hands touching the bottom? How was it?
    Love your sink!

  • lascatx
    14 years ago

    Forget the hands touching the bottom of the sink. I read something like that when I was planning. I'm 4 inches taller than you and quickly realized I'd have to be half ape to get my knuckles on the bottom of the sink without bending. The tips of my fingers stop a bit above the grate in my sink and I'm perfectly happy with it.

    I think you will find that not having to reach over and in will make your sink more comfortable to work at (mine is not an apron, but we pulled it as far forward as possible). The lack of reach may mean you don't feel you need to rest on the counter.

  • busybme
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    My hands do not touch the bottom of the sink when I stand at it. I believe that, if I had a grid, I may just be able to brush the top of the grid with my fingertips.

    I'm going to check into grids, as I was planning to order one anyway.
    Sandy

  • firstmmo
    14 years ago

    Theanimala has a sink in stainless sort of like yours and ended up flushmounting it.

    We had some issues with this same thing, but my counters are actually going to be a total of 37.5" tall. Because of my square 2" edge, we had to double up on the 5/8" plywood and the sink will be flushmount. I am not a negative reveal lover, and didn't like the look of the undermount at the kitchen sink. This shows the profile and how they are mounting it up from the plywood to make room for the granite. I think it also shows how thick my plywood is!

    From Menlo Farmhouse

    See all that doubled up plywood? That plus the granite will make my counters 37.5"

    From Menlo Farmhouse

  • Gillian McCarthy
    3 years ago

    @firstmmo how is the plywood going to be covered? As I understand it a granite countertop would just sit on top of that correct? Do you plan on painting it because I believe it would just show as it is now right?

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    3 years ago

    Gillian:


    Even though this thread is a decade old, your questions are not, so I'll take over for firstmmo:


    "How is the plywood going to be covered? As I understand it a granite countertop would just sit on top of that correct?"


    Correct.


    "Do you plan on painting it because I believe it would just show as it is now right?"


    No painting. The new top will have a drop edge that will cover the plywood.

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