Ah, the advantages of not having cable...

The only home shows that I get to watch are on PBS, "This Old House", etc. And with digital programming, our local PBS affliate Oregon Public Broadcasting, also airs a "Create" channel that has great cooking and home-related shows most of the day - this channel is not available on cable. Run to the nearest Radio Shack and get a digital antenna(about $50.00), they are nothing like the old rabbit ears and you will be surprised at how good the reception quality is and the number of channels you get off the air -free!! We have our antenna in the attic and just hooked it up to the cable outlet in the family room.

at least on the cooking shows the recipes at least have to WORK. ...oh, wait a minute ...martha is still on!

The only home shows that I get to watch are on PBS

One of the most sued home improvement shows in television history (Bob Vila's show) started out on PBS. You're not immune. :-)

There's a slideshow on NYTimes.com every week, and this was in "What you get for $350,000." I think this cooktop is exactly ccoombs1 was talking about. Looks very dangerous.

Here is a link that might be useful: NYTimes.com kitchen

>> The only home shows that I get to watch are on PBS

> One of the most sued home improvement shows in television history (Bob Vila's show) started out on PBS. You're not immune. :-)

Thanks, I did not know about Bob Vila. At least, PBS shows are free... Not exactly, other than the money one donates during pledge drives :-) :-)

OMG that cooking setup is horrendous!

Along the same lines,(but not nearly as nutty as a disintegrating granite), I saw the "Bang for Your Buck" show about kitchen remodel the other day. The "expert" did not think much of the marble top on the island because she said if you left spaghetti or wine out at night there would be a big stain in the morning. Seems that nobody here is having any kind of marble stain issues. Etching, but not staining. Then the realtor did not like that one family opened up the wall between the dining room and the kitchen. She thought it was not a good idea to lose the formal dining room. It is 2010! There is still room for the large dining table to entertain. This is the trend.

IMHO, the problem is often with shows that have a "realty expert." Of the 100's of realtors in my town, there are only 1 or 2 that have ANY training in home decor. Yes, perhaps they see trends in their line of work, but really... they aren't "experts". For example, a realtor in town told my friends NEVER to paint their HORRIBLE wood cabinets (that were in terrible shape to begin with). My friends slavishly followed his advice for the 5 years they lived in the home. When they went to sell, they couldn't sell until they finally painted the darn cabinets!

I get furious when many of the designers paint beautiful woods with white paint. Gorgeous wood ceilings in contemporary houses are painted white with brown beams (makes you think tudor?) Built in hutches-white paint!

Altho, I do like Candace Olsen(sp?).

fleur, I saw that same show. When the designer made that comment about marble, I thought, "uh, oh, don't let the TKO folks at GW hear you!" LOL

btw, I think the realtor's comments about eliminating the formal DR were targeted to the specific demographic for that area or perhaps just that neighborhood and not necessarily applicable on a larger scale. In the end, the decision to eliminate the formal DR didn't matter because IIRC that kit chen scored the highest return on investment of the 3 featured.

OMG -- What a disasterous layout.
Yes, it's 'pretty' -- but could you actually cook there?

This thread is hilarous. DH and I love watching the DIY network and HGTV and just laughing at all the ridiculous things they say. It was those silly shows that originally led me to believe a person would get 110% return investment on any kitchen reno.

Renovation Realities is also great fun to watch - not directly kitchen related, but often they are doing kitchens (in 4 days total with a $2K budget, cabinets included - of course it never happens that way!). We laughed till we cried when we saw the homeowner who didn't like the dust in her home and complained she was losing her voice from it. The TV flashed the words, "and evidently her mind too". She proceeded to haul in the garden hose and sprinkler right into the living room and cranked it on high. No more dust. Just when you think you've seen it all. Eh, what's a little water damage. At least the dust is gone!

re: the kitchen sweeby posted.

What were they thinking? That has got to be the queerest setup I've every seen.

That cooktop is horrible - I'd knock those bottles with my elbow in about 10 seconds - but I'm still amazed that a kitchen like that is in a house for $350k?!? Where can you find a livable house (much less one with a huge new kitchen) for $350K? (Maybe I should read the article. But it might depress me.)

I've seen a couple episodes of that 'extreme makeover home edition' show. The common areas of the couple homes I've seen on that show look pretty... but some of the bedrooms are ridiculous! Like a kid says once that he likes penguins, and they build an entire room to look like an iceberg or something. They create these elaborate rooms that a kid will probably like for a year and then want to change, but these are all families in fairly dire circumstances, so they're going to live with that design for a loooong time.

Gotta run... I think I heard my granite disintegrating...

I wonder how many times the bottles of oil have been knocked off in that kitchen? It would be a great kitchen for someone that doesn't cook. It's really pretty. :)

Gorgous house and very pretty kitchen, but that cooktop is ludicrously stupid in it's placement and utility. Why didn't they put it over where the ovens are?

What a nightmare. How do you drain a pot of pasta? How many times do you have to clean up broken glass and olive oil from the tile floor before you remodel this place?

Just watched a "spice up my kit*chen" episode -- nice white cabs with black granite tile countertop. The grout lines were narrow, but the grout was ... white. What in the world were they thinking????

A few days ago saw a family*room where the TV was hung a little behind the couch. Yeah. That'll work.

Weird kitchen, but I have that same oven/micro combo! Cheapest one out there (a few years ago at least). I like mine. That kitchen needs paint.

Can't imagine cooking in that kitchen, sweeby. I need a spot right next to the stove to roll out dough for chapatis!!

Jeez, chicagoans, $350K gets you a pretty fabulous h ouse in a nice Houston suburb. As a matter of fact, for what I am spending to build my house in Greenville, SC, I could have a 4,000+ sq ft on the golf course in the next neighborhood over from where I currently live in the SE corner of Houston. Yes, my new house is custom, in a gated community, on 2 acres and I don't have to live with flat & humid, but there are large metro areas (Houston is next largest city after Chicago) when housing is cheap even in very exclusive subdivisions.

drjoann - I think that's fabulous. In fact I'm quite envious! You'd have to go pretty far out from the city to find that here, basically a subdiv on a dirt field. And it's not like we have an ocean or mountain view around here either! And I'm sure the folks in NY or LA think our home prices are what their garages are worth.

I admit I'm still surprised to see such a high end kitchen like that in a house for that price, just based on the costs of cabinets, counters, etc... Maybe I just need to get out more. :)

But I still think the cooktop set up is goofy.

Yes, the cooktop setup is beyond goofy. And, Houston is an anomaly in more ways than one (but I raised DD here, found the greatest guy in the world and had an amazing career, so it will always hold a special place in my heart.)

One of my favorite "bloopers" on B4YB was a kitchen reno in Buckhead or Druid Hills. The gal had exquisite taste & was going for an unfitted look. So, she had no uppers & really nice looking dishes on shelves. Anyway, Vern Yip (I think) is admiring the countertops & makes the comment that he wished she had taken some of the money she put into the counters and used it toward more cabinets. That was a thank-goodness-I-wasn't-drinking-coffee-or-I-would-have-spit-it-all-over-myself moment.

I really think that the HGTV folks are just not hanging with the "cool kids" like those of us who are TKO on GW. LOL!

I get a laugh out of the HGTV shows where in Random Show #1, they're renovating some room doing crazy, bizzare decorating/rennovations like grass/straw wallpaper or in one episode, wood flooring up a wall. Then in Show #2, Designed to Sell, they rip apart stuff that was done in Randomm Show #1 to neutralize everything bizzare that was done to a house. Make up your mind HGTV...

In a sense, Vern Yip was correct. If the show is about adding resale value, NOT making a fabulous, unique personal space, then the room needs to be attractive to the widest possible market. That generally results in a generic "Pottery Barn catalog" look.

If the show is about adding resale value,

Actually, the show is not about adding resale value. None of the renovations ever come back over 100% return, which is what is required to make money on a renovation. It's really a contest to see who the relitter and designer think lost the least amount of money.

So if a renovation is really a consumption expense--something to enjoy using--just get what you really want anyway.

I would have no problem with Vern Yip saying the choice of no uppers was a mistake for resale. But, jeepers, there was no way the owner didn't do uppers because of budget. Vern was way off the mark with that.

Back in the late 1970's when I only did tile work - and had just started
my own business as a high end Ceramic Tile and Stone contractor,
I quit watching Bob Villain - I meant VILA - back in his early PBS days....

I always found it particularly GALLING that the show would always feature
some "Sam & Suzie Homemaker" types that owned the home, then decided
to do a remodel - they HIRED every conceivable contractor to do everything
from the normal stuff like plumbing and electricity, carpentry, roofing, etc.

but when it came to the ceramic tile work or the stone work ....... they ALWAYS
no matter which episode - decided to do the tile work themselves!!!!

Thanks a FREAKIN PANT-LOAD BOB VILLAIN!!!!

Actually I had more work than I knew what to do with - as folks found out
that doing the Tile work themselves was NOT as easy as the TV show
made it out to look!!!! HA!!!

In the end - Bob Villa helped me make a TON of money!!!!

Thanks Bob!! The last 32 years have been great - in spite of you and other
idiot "experts" on TV shows that don't know spit from shine-ola!!!

kevin

Same here-- I could always be guaranteed a bunch of "could you finish this" jobs within a week or two after he did a show with tile. I used to think it was great, because at the time, I was a union mechanic, and all my reidential work was on the side, so I was making money hand over fist. But over the years, I've come to realise that for me to MAKE that money meant that someone else had to lose it, and the whole concept lost its luster, which comes back to the reason I spend so much time on line trying to open peoples' eyes.

Bob Vila--when I was a kid, I was mesmerized.

When I became educated, change that to "horrified"!

Actually, the show is not about adding resale value.

I think you are splitting hairs. According to the show's website, "After the renovation, experts determine the value of each home, dramatically revealing whose remodeling choices were good investment decisions." Investment for what? Resale, that's the only way you recoup your "investment". Anything deemed unusual to that particular market, whether it's an induction cooktop or soapstone counters or an unfitted kitchen with no uppers, will bring in less value in this particular "contest".

My counters were gone this morning. At least I know it's normal and they just disintegrated.

Happy Friday everyone, and for those of us on the East Coast, mama mia--enjoy this weather, we so deserve it!

After the renovation, experts determine the value of each home, dramatically revealing whose remodeling choices were good investment decisions." Investment for what? Resale, that's the only way you recoup your "investment".

Nobody on this show recoups their investment. When the "experts" say that a kitchen had an 80% return, they are either intentionally BS-ing or don't know what they're talking about. The truth is, the kitchen had a -20% return. In investing, an 80% return means you get back all of the money you invested, plus another 80%.

There isn't any other "industry" that plays with numbers the way hom e renovati on does. If a mutual fund reported an 80% return when it really lost a fifth of its investors' money, its executives would be in jail, quite literally.

Since everybody on the show lost money, none of them made good investment decisions. If they spent money to enjoy their houses, that's fine, but that's consumption, not investment, like buying a fancy c ar.

..."and it won't disintegrate like granite."

Oh, brother! The only thing that disintegrated a long time ago was HGTV. Just who is there target audience anyway?

I've had Gershwin stuck in my head since I learned about the perils of granite:

In time the Rockies may crumble
Gibraltar may tumble
They're only made of clay
But Silestone is here to stay.

Sorry about the countertop. At least your SIL won't notice! ;-)

I've super enjoyed reading all the snarky comments about HGTV, the network we all seem to love to hate (while still watching it!) I have to admit sometimes I watch "Spice Up My Kitchen" just for the fun of seeing how ugly Lauren Lake's transformation will be. This week she designed a kitchen for a lovely gracious old victorian and painted the accent walls pepto bismol pink. (At least she did give them a beautiful 36" Wolf gas range and a decent hood, unlike her standard over the range microwave.) I wondered how much money HGTV had to pay the home owners to get them to smile with delight at the reveal.

Sarah Richardson, however, does rock -- even if one doesn't agree with all her choices and layout designs.

Then the realtor did not like that one family opened up the wall between the dining room and the kitchen. She thought it was not a good idea to lose the formal dining room. It is 2010! There is still room for the large dining table to entertain. This is the trend.

I did not know I was a trendsetter.

I did that 20 years ago.

I actually added a dining room to a house in 2008: the kitchen had an eat in area, and the living space was this kind of large amorphous irregularly shaped polygon: people who had this floorplan could never figure out where to put furniture.

We flipped the plan, made the kitchen smaller and open to the dining room with a couple stools, and floated a fireplace in the rest of the now L-shaped space, breaking it into two rectangles (DR and LR)--Its not a formal diningroom (the whole house is informal) but it is counter to current trends.

This has been a fun post to read! I am an HGTV addict--started because it's just a mindless way for me to unwind after work. But it is frustrating how dumbed-down those shows are. Obviously, they dont have the time to take you from A-Z on a project, but why do they put all those goofy jokes or scenes in...like I think its Design on a Dime or Designed to Sell where they always have some hokey carpenter joke or stunt. Or the teaser for their commercials make it sound like the designer and the carpetner are in a fight (oh no!). And yet they always come in around $2.50 under their $2000 budget! wow, what a relief!

So annoying! I wish there was a step up from HGTV-whoever suggested that was smart! an HGTV 202, perhaps. :)

But Candice Olson's room creations are stunning. I wish they would put the price on there (although it is likely astronomical.)

I think the worst one is the Designed to Sell...ok lets just buy a stainless steel panel for $10 and pretend the dishwasher really is stainless. Lets put in peel-n-stick vinyl squares over the floor. Augh! I feel it just encourages people to hide problems vs fix them appropriately but maybe that's the game when you're trying to sell.

Well sorry about my long rant. I love/hate you HGTV!

She thought it was not a good idea to lose the formal dining room.

Hell, we turned mine into a small gym!

Complete with nautilus, bike, and china cabinet!

Designed to Sell ... what a joke! I've seen peel'n'stick tiles over ceramic floors, paint over wallpaper, and laminate flooring over lovely hardwood that just needed refinishing. Yes, buyer beware!

I agree with all those disparaging comments about the makeover shows with the $2000 budget. Amazing how they never spend more than that. And they never actually account for how much the labor would cost.

I hate how they have no qualms about intentionally deceiving prospective buyers by covering up flaws.

I love how they take the window treatments down and put up sheers and other totally impractical dressing to hightlight a room's "light" while the privacy and heat loss issues are totally ignored. Most of these homeowners just need a stern talking to about clutter, repainting walls and cleaning their carpets.

Yes, buyer beware. HGTV shouldn't be proud of this program.

i second that.
We could turn GW into a service: giving homeowners a stern talking to.

I still watch, but I am very sorry that they got away from shows that showed how long it actually takes to do renovations. I used to enjoy "Designing for the Sexes" and "Designers' Challenge," and in every show, the narrator would say something like, "Four months have passed ..."

Now, most of the shows are quick-fix, always with some sort of deadline, like an open house or a new tenant moving in.

Have you noticed that almost every House Hunters buyer comments, 'Wow, lots of light' no matter the size, placement whatever.

So many of these shows have young couples that won't give a second thought to a house that does not have granite countertops or hardwood floors. They completely overlook the location, character, square footage or lot size. What they really need is an education in investment potential.

What irks me about House Hunters is that they have buyers that complain on end over a room's paint color, or unattractive ceiling fans. But a huge structural crack in a foundation or wall in a house, and surprise...nothing but the briefest of comments. Or the realtors that tell them that they can "just expand". These buyers can't deal with changing a ceiling fan and you want them to embark on a expansion project?

Yes! I love the super-low budgets with the "We did all this for less than $2000/$200/$20," that completely fail to count the ten hours of professional carpentry/tiling/mural painting that were put into it.

This reminds me of why Holmes on Homes is my new favorite show.

Makes me very nervous any time a faucet is leading. I would be horrified to find out what went wrong with my construction.

I would love to know how much his fixes cost.

I also would love to know how much Candace Olsen's remodels cost. I guess you are looking at $100-150K if the truth were to be disclosed. I wonder who pays for it.

I just like watching the shows and playing buzzword bingo - granite, stainless steel, open floor plan, hardwood floors etc etc. As long as the home has three or four of the buzzwords it's a great house.

It shocks me that buyers are distracted by cosmetics and eye candy rather than the things that can't be changed or are very expensive to change i.e. home location, plumbing, electrical wiring.

I also want to live in the locations that reno a kitchen or bathroom in a weekend and get permits pulled and inspections done in the same time.

A friend of a friend of mine were the "home buyers" in an episode of House Hunters. I heard that they have to be under contract with a house prior to filming. So they already know which house they are invested in and the two other houses are just for TV. That probably explains a lot of their fluffy comments and not addressing structural issues--who cares, it's not the house they're buying.