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doonie_gw

Incorporating Elizpiz vault idea

doonie
14 years ago

First let me say that Elizpiz's vaulted ceiling was very inspirational for me. (Like her whole kitchen!) We are doing an addition to our house, and I love how additional light can be brought in through a vault similar to Elizpiz's. The dimensions will be nearly similar, but my main kitchen area will be back in the house with 8 ft ceilings. The vaulted area will be over where my kitchen table will be. I will only be able to have two sets of windows up high in the vault (Eastern light). I would like to incorporate the Niermann Weeks Italian Chandelier for table lighting, but I am stuck on what to do to hang it in the middle of the space. I think a long chain from the vault will look strange, should I do a single beam through the space like an exposed floor joist? I am also overwhelmed with how to uplight the space at night and what treatment to use in the ceiling vault. (Looks like Elizpiz used white painted wood?) Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Elizpiz finished kitchen link

http://finishedkitchens.blogspot.com/2009/11/elizpiz-kitchen.html

Niermann Weeks Italian Chandelier



This chandelier comes in 9 light (27" wide by 34" tall)

& 12 light (32" wide & 43" tall) & uses 40 W bulbs. My table is a distressed heavy farm table measuring 60" by 40"

Comments (32)

  • doonie
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Photo of Elizpiz vault from her lovely kitchen...

  • _sophiewheeler
    14 years ago

    To make the look work, you have to have the right scale. 8' ceilings aren't tall enough to work. A 3' chandelier is completely out of proportion to an 8' ceiling. That's well over 1/3 of the space available. It would be suitable for a 16' tall foyer type space, but it's way too much for your space.

    You'll need to increase your room's height by several feet if you want to pull this off.

  • doonie
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    The perimeter ceiling height is 8'. The vaulted area will be 17'. We have an adjacent great room with 17' foot ceiling that is attached to the kitchen via an arch. The primary reason for adding the vault is to let extra light into the kitchen. One wall will open to our 17' covered porch. It will be separated by a bank of french doors with transom windows. Adjacent to that is another bank of 3 windows with a transome over them. Neirmann Weeks can do custom sizing of chandeliers, but, of course, it's better for my budget to use one of the offered sizes. I do have an experienced GC guiding me in my decision making, but I am perplexed at this hanging of the chandelier.

    I am attaching a photo of my dining room with an oversized chandelier so you can get a feel for what my decor/house style is like.(according to the rules) with an 8 foot ceiling.

  • doonie
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    bump

  • chicagoans
    14 years ago

    elizpiz's kitchen is certainly inspirational! Stunning.

    There are 2 pictures in this thread of high ceilings with beams. Look for peyton_road's picture (another stunner!) and one posted by pps7. Peyton's doesn't have any hanging lights at this point; if she sees this maybe she can let you know if she plans any. The picture posted by pps7 shows hanging lights on long cables; it doesn't show all the way to the ceiling though. Anyway, thought this might help.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Thread with some vaulted ceiling pics

  • doonie
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    chicagoans, thank you for the thread! I had missed that one. I am considering a simple cross of beams. I don't know if I should do that or if it would look odd to have the chandelier hanging down with around 9' or 10' of chain? I have some time to figure it out, but this is one hard nut for me to crack, so I really appreciate the input!

  • mythreesonsnc
    14 years ago

    Hi Doonie,

    Did you see the current edition of Better Homes and Gardens Beautiful Kitchens? It has a really beautiful vaulted ceiling in a kitchen with windows on top like elizpiz) done with skylights (I have totally scrutinized it and even looked at the pics on the achitects website). One thing that is especially interesting given your post is that is features the same Niermann Weeks chandelier in the awesome space! Anyway, I scanned the pics for you (hope this is allowed), hope they help you a bit.... Rachel

  • doonie
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    WOW! mythreesonsnc! I love it! Thank you for taking the time to scan and post it. That is a great idea. I hadn't thought of putting the cross diagonally, but it looks great and helps a ton to see. How crazy is it that Better Homes and Garden had this idea with the same chandy?? The white beam look is something I might incorporate. I was initially only thinking a natural wood beam, but I really like the way they used the white.

    On the color note, I am torn between BM Windham Cream and Filtered Sunlight and wondering about painting the entire space (walls & ceiling & beams) that color. I think it would work to raise that crossed area up into the raised ceiling area by 2 or 3 feet to give me a little more heigth for the chandelier (at least that is how it is in my mind's eye.)

  • elizpiz
    14 years ago

    Hi doonie!

    First, thks for the compliments! The vaulted ceiling is one of the features that we love the most, as it adds so much light and space into the room. BTW, and coincidentally, the height of our ceiling is 17' also.

    More than a year later, we are still contemplating putting a chandy there - but because we don't need it strictly for a lighting source, we will only buy/install one if it absolutely strikes us as the *one*. We came close recently - saw a chandelier that was gorgeous, half price and would have looked great. But it was HUGE - 5 ft across - and we could not have gotten it into the house! I do love the Niermann Weeks you show above and I'm intrigued by the fact that they do custom stuff too. Hmmm....

    Re: uplighting. We have a very simple solution that our GC installed (which you can see in the pic you posted of our ceiling). There are simple spotlights on all three walls and they are on a separate switch (and dimmer) so that we can light the ceiling at night. And yes it is white painted wood.

    It's so funny that mythreesons replied, because when I started reading your post I looked for the post she did quite a while ago about vaulted ceilings - it's linked below and has some fab photos (including boxerpups at work!). Not to hijack - but, Rachel, what did you end up doing? Did I miss your kitchen??

    Here are two of the photos that were early inspirations for us.

    The first for the amazing space, the eclectic mix of old and modern and the wonderful beamed ceiling.

    This one was much closer to what we could achieve with our space, and may give you some additional ideas.

    Still thinking about doing that chalkboard paint somewhere!

    HTH! Would love to see what your floorplan looks like and how it progresses.

    Good luck!
    Eliz

    Here is a link that might be useful: Vaulted ceilings

  • doonie
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Eliz, Thanks for the input! Love the photos! I'd love to hear more from Rachel too since it looks like she's traveled down this road before.

    Our house is fairly new (1999) & traditional with lots of thick white crown molding, so I am trying to incorporate a sunny look that works in my space. A large part of why this vault came into being is that we wanted a vaulted covered porch, so with that roofline, it became possible to vault the area over the breakfast room as well. Because the kitchen extends back into the house, I want to have as many windows, natural light as I can.

    Unfortunately, I don't have a better rendering of our plan. In the picture below the kitchen area is located in our old space, the area of the breakfast room and to the left (including the mudroom, laundry room, & covered porch) is all addition. The room below the kitchen is our vaulted great room, to the right is our 8' tall dining room, and above the kitchen is our guest room and bath. The main area of the kitchen is only 8' and can't be changed. The dining room and great room open to the kitchen via archways, so it's a semi open plan.

    Anyway, I love getting all these ideas! Thanks a ton!

  • doonie
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    We actually used chalkboard paint in my Daughter's room and it's been a great thing for her! We bought some trim and spray painted it black to frame out the wall.

  • mythreesonsnc
    14 years ago

    I'm still here, still sans a new kitchen though..... grr.... We are still working on house plans and really really want to get moving, but all sorts of issues to work out. The hardest part about waiting is getting extra time to re-think things and doubt the original plan. I am still planning to do a vaulted ceiling with rustic beams, but we have tinkered lots with the placement of the beams because I worry about a low hanging beam over the island, and how to hang a chandelier / multiple pendants from the vault. For the moment the plan is to hang a single chandelier over the island --- like in the picture from BH&G posted above. I love the Italian chandelier too --- it is really beautiful, but SOOO expensive (and whatever we choose, we need a second one for in the family room that is attached), so I have been looking for other lights that give the same feeling. Not that Doonie or Eliz have asked for other lights but have either of you seen the Currey & Co version of the Niermann Weeks Italian (I think they are similar anyway)

    or another one I really like is the Visual Comfort Marigot --- it has wooden beads, with distressed blackish paint over them.

    I wish I could see it in person. They both come in a few sizes, but I don't know quite how to figure out the right scale? Anyway, I've got time to figure it out...

    Elizpiz, so curious to know what light you considered? I like to "visit" your kitchen often in my saved file --- it is so amazing!

    Doonie, look forward to following your progress! Rachel

  • doonie
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Rachel, I had to go out and buy that new addition of Better Homes & Gardens Beautiful Kitchens today. What a gorgeous kitchen! I don't have that kind of volume in my house to carry off that look, but I have shown the photo to my GC, so we'll see what variations we come up with. Sorry to hear of your travails with the house plans. I know I have had enough time to rethink my appliance choices multiple times!

    I like both of the chandeliers you show. Fortunately I only have to buy one chandy, plus pendants, which I may ask for opinions on too! I think the deal with the Currey & Co is that it doesn't come in other finishes, but it is so similar to the NW, that it's hard to pass up. I like the hats on the chandelier. I think it helps to force the light down where we need it. I will probably get hats on mine. That beam and light hanging problem is tough isn't it? I hope you get back on line with your house plans.

    Elizpiz, I have to admit, I really enjoy "visiting" your kitchen too! Love the intimate inviting feel of it!

  • doonie
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Well, I just officially measured my kitchen and it's actually 9'. So, that gives me an extra foot of space that I didn't know I had! So, my kitchen area is 9' and the vaulted area will be around 18'. (Still trying to figure out chandelier sizes!)

    So the 34" NW would work, but are 9 40 Watt bulbs enough down light for the table even with hats?? (Recommendation is to hang the chandy 30" to 36" over the table. I wonder if that is the same with a vaulted area?)

  • doonie
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    bump..

  • elizpiz
    14 years ago

    Wow, threads are moving fast these days...missed your bump, doonie!

    Rachel, hang in there! It will all be worth the pain in the end :-). I really like the last chandelier you posted (with the wooden beads)...I'll have to go check out the web site. Unfortunately I don't have a photo of the fixture we were looking at. It was at a local furniture store and I didn't get the name of the company.

    Doonie, I just went and measured my ceilings again. The heights are actually in three tiers: the original 8' ceiling that is partially over the island; the "rim" of the vaulted section (eg just above the big windows), which is just over 10' and the then the peak itself, which is 17'. That 10' rim has 13 halogen spots! Plus the extra lighting in the vaulted part itself. So, depending on how you end up styling the beams and the vaulted scetion, I'm wondering if you could supplement your chandy with halogen lighting and not worry about it as the only source of light? Maybe post over on the Lighting forum for some bright ideas? (hee hee)

    Whatever you decide, put everything on dimmers! Most of the lights throughout the house are now on dimmers and I love the flexibility it gives us, especially in the kitchen.

    I would love to see a photo of your table - it sounds gorgeous!

    And you two can come hang out here anytime - there's nothing better than the kitchen full of people :-).

    Eliz

  • doonie
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Elizpiz, Thanks for taking the time to measure the ceilings. We are working now towards an upper vault of painted wood (similar to your treatment). Then incorporating that cross beam idea from Rachel's post, but moving it up to below the windows in the addition. So then we can put uplighting there and then hang the chandy from the center. We will have some perimeter lighting around the bottom and I am glad to hear that you think it will be plenty. Since we are putting those raised beams in the space, I wonder if that perimeter should stay the same height as the kitchen, which is 9 ft or do you think it should be raised too?

    eliz, I've posted several different things on the lighting forum, but it seems like I only hear echoes of myself! (Moves very slowly and not much input, unlike over here!)

    Rachel, when are we headed to Eliz's?

  • mythreesonsnc
    14 years ago

    Love your plan, it sounds perfect! I'm up for a trip --- sign me up --- then maybe on to your place Doonie, when you are done :-), and then mine in 5 years hopefully! Can't really be that long, but who knows! So glad you guys are back on this topic, because I started looking at my kitchen plan while thinking about your space Doonie -- I noticed a HUGE problem that I'd never considered, and now I will get it fixed in the plans, thank you!

    Eliz --- if by chance you seriously do like that Visual Comfort chandelier, there is 1 on clearance on Bellacor - it is huge and typically over $1000, but they have a clearanced one for $650 and free shipping. Just type in Marigot on Bellacor and the regular priced one pops up and at the bottom they have one listed with a special price. I really love it too, but need to actually have broken ground to begin hoarding something like that!

  • doonie
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    mthreesonsnc, glad the post is helping someone else too! I hope your reno gets on track for you, otherwise come hang out with eliz, rachel, & me!

  • doonie
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    You can get the Currey & Co version of the chandy above in different finishes, but it raises the price to near the amount of the Niermann Weeks. We are in the process of framing out the raised roof area now. Still perplexed on chandy size and finish if I go with the Niermann Weeks.

  • doonie
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Update on our progress...We have it framed out as below. We can only have 2 banks of windows (East & South) due to the roof structure. So, I am working towards melding the cross beam photo above with Elizpiz's vault. The highest I can make the beams is 13 feet, which the chandelier will hang off of. I think I need side beams along with wall for the cross beams to anchor into? But then do I need vertical beams in each of the corners of that space going to the ceiling too?

    Or should I just forgo the beams and hang the chandelier in a looong chain from the 22 foot ceiling, which will be painted light and similar to the finish on Elizpiz's?

    Thoughts?

    South & East sides

    North & Eash sides

    Straight up view

    Outside view from the East

  • doonie
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    I really wish I could get some input here...beginning to feel like the GW pariah;)

    Anyway, after walking the space, yet again, I think I either need:

    1) Hang the chandelier straight down from the ceiling.

    2) Nix the cross idea and go with 3 horizontal beams, 13 feet up with the chandy off the middle one.

    Anyone have an opinion out there? (Or maybe I am on the wrong forum entirely!)

  • malhgold
    13 years ago

    you might also want to post on the Home Decorating forum. Lots of good decorating advice over there. Good luck!

  • sochi
    13 years ago

    I would lean towards hanging the chandelier straight down from the ceiling (more dramatic perhaps?), but to be honest I'm having a hard time picturing how the beams will look/function! You might get more response on the decorating forum, all I can say with confidence is that I'm sure it is going to look spectacular and I wish I could do a ceiling like that! Enjoy it!

  • firstmmo
    13 years ago

    While not the same vaulted ceiling, it does show a pendant that looks really long which I normally would have said is too long....but in the photo it looks fine.
    {{!gwi}}From Misc photos

    Our ceiling is 14' and the chandelier will hang straight down (over the kitchen table). A box will be built to surround the beam so that the chandelier will hang out the middle of that beam.

    From Menlo Farmhouse

    I think hanging it straight down will accentuate the gorgeous shape of the vault and will draw your eye up toward all that detail! It's beautiful!

    From Menlo Farmhouse

  • doonie
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    malhgold, I posted over in the home decorating forum and I am still waiting for bites. Thanks for the suggestion.

    sochi, the beams allow me to put up lighting on the top of them to illuminate the vault and get some secondary lighting. It is hard to visualize, so that's why I am seeing what you all have to say. I am leaning towards 3 cross beams about 13 feet up, but without any struts (I have no idea on the structural terms, forgive me!).

    firsthouse, I love your kitchen! Gorgeous. Makes me secondguess my decisions and change to a white kitchen;) Thanks for posting your ideas and plans. Since the center of my ceiling is 22 ft or so, I am still concerned about the length of chain, but in the photos you posted, it looks fine. But I think those are lower. What do you think of 3 horizontal beams about halfway up the wall towards the windows? That would let me do uplighting and hang the chandy? Thanks so much!

  • firstmmo
    13 years ago

    Also, search an architect named Howard Backen from Napa...he has a number of very intricate ceilings that is his "signature" (among other things). I would bet his roof trusses and vaulted ceiling pictures might also provide some source of inspiration. Originally, I was supposed to have a "salt tower" on my house but it proved to be too expensive to add another room (see Walker Warner Sonoma Farmhouse).

    I absolutely LOVE the crossbar idea in the pic above. It's stunning! I could also see the three horizontal beams you are talking about. Depending upon your level of detail inside the tower, mimicking some of the molding or ogee beveling the beams, might also add to the interest of the horizontal "supports".

  • doonie
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    firsthouse,

    Really cool architecture link! Wow!

    Looks like I am back to the crossbar idea...talked it over with my GC. We are using 12 inch trusses and bolting them to the corners and then building them up, like you mentioned, to increase the visual interest. Very very exciting!!

  • elizpiz
    13 years ago

    Doonie - I've been a long time away from GW - and look at the progress you've made! It looks fantastic.

    I really like the photos that firsthouse posted with the uber long chain, but think your cross bar idea will work really well. Have you decided on a fixture?

    Eliz

  • doonie
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Eliz,

    Yes! It's hard to believe the huge hole is gone. There will be 13 feet from the bottom of the cross so the lighting consultant and I are going with the larger 12 light Niermann Weeks chandy, which is 43" high and 32" wide and a splurge! Hopefully I will get to see the Venetian Silver finish sample this next week (rest of the kitchen will be ORB).

  • elizpiz
    13 years ago

    So, is that the first pic you posted? I love that chandy. Pls post more pix as it comes together - can't wait to see the finished product!

    Eliz

  • doonie
    Original Author
    13 years ago

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