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Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

Posted by OntarioMom (My Page) on
Wed, Mar 20, 13 at 0:44

Hi Everyone,

Due to a goof when ordering windows for our addition, we have one window of the wrong size that can't go back. We are contemplating using it in our kitchen because our kitchen is in the middle of the house and therefore could use more natural light. The problem is the extra window is higher off the ground than the one already in the ktichen. The one already in the kitchn is 42 inches from the ground to bottom of jam extension. The one available is 45 inches from the ground to bottom of jam extension. They are also different widths --- the installed one is around 48 inches wide and the one that is available is 39 inches wide.

I have linked the layout we having been working with. It is not a final layout, but getting there. It will show you the long outside wall where we could consider placing the extra window.

Any thoughts on using this window?

TIA!

Carol

 photo kitchendesignvers11electricaldec12_zpsd56bd20c.jpg


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

Don't forget to consider how an odd-sized window will look from the outside of your house. In some ways a rhythmic, well-planned fenestration pattern is more crucial from the outside than issue within a room.

L.


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

Lirio,

Thanks for your comments. I totally agree with you that you must consider the outside for window selection as well. In our case it will not be an issue as this proposed extra window will be at the side of the house, and provide a good view of the neighbour's siding (okay we would see his air condenser too LOL). It is not that bad because the house is pie shaped so there is a reasonable distance between the two houses and side windows still let in decent ight. The other kitchen window that is in, looks out at our neighbour's backyard (our house is further set back, and the neighbour is not planning on adding an addition at this point). Long story short this second window, (if we use it) will provide some light but not a view. It will not look out of place from the outside.

Carol


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

So you mean it would be on the opposite wall from the other window?

Either way... for me natural light trumps symmetry but then again, I'm not a person who covets symmetry... it never drives my design decisions.


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

Hi remodelfla,

Thanks for your comments. This new window would go on the same wall as the other window. That is the only outside wall in the kitchen. The window could go where I show the pantry or the cabinet near the fridge.

Carol


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

Oh OK... had to wrap my brain around it being on the same wall but having different "views". I see it like this... you have the window, it won't mess with the exterior look of the house, and it'll bring in natural light. I can't think of a reason why I wouldn't want to use it. Good luck!!


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

Hi Remodelfia and others,

Thanks for your vote.

The new window would be a less good view as it would not clear the neighbour's side, and the window already installed is further to the back of the house so is not directly facing the side of the neighbour's house (all would change if they built an addition too).

The only reason I hesitate is this window is shorter than than the other kitchen window (it is narrower too).

Carol


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

I'm confused. Where exactly would the window go? I'm not sure I'd give up a pantry for a second window, especially when its not the right window.


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

Hi Breezygirl,

Thanks for your input. The outside wall that has the existing window, fridge etc would have to be re-worked to accommodate an extra window if we go for it. The kitchen is large enough to accommodate moving the ovens, or placing the pantry elsewhere. I have a wall of storage on the far left side and a snack pantry/bar fridge in the dining room, so I would be perfectly fine with storing the foods I cook with in drawers as opposed to a full height pantry.

The biggest debate is whether this window would look odd given it is shorter and narrower than the other window. If we could have gotten a sun tunnel down to the kitchen, I would have done that as the one side of the kitchen without a window seems very dark. I do love natural light.

Carol


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

I think unless there's a "reason" for the window to be a different size it will look like a mistake. For me, it's not so much the different width, but the different height from the floor. If the counter was a different height there and therefore you needed a different size window, that might make sense. But I think to have it on the same wall without some design element causing it to be that way, it will look strange.


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

It depends if you can make it look purposeful--existing window is above the sink, right? So, think of it as an expanded window over the sink vs. a normal size elsewhere? I know my kitchen used to have 2 different sized windows & it never bothered me back then (1 is now replaced with a door to the new porch). Same wall, but one over the sink & one over a table. It WILL look weird if you do a symmetrical layout & treat both the same, though!


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

I'd go for the extra window to increase the natural light. Mahlgold has a great point about the design element, but I wonder if it may be possible to work the window treatments to make the windows appear more equally sized. One idea is to slide the sink down between the two dishwashers, moving that window with it, then move the steam oven into the fan shaped island (no cabinetry shown there?), and put the second window in that spot.

Two quick questions, do you use a steam oven now, and if so, which one? And, please say a little bit about that dumbwaiter, brand and mechanism please.


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

Thanks for all the input. Unless I can find a reason to have a higher counter top as suggested which would make the difference in window height look purposeful, I think I will leave the second window out. I don't want it to look strange. I appreciate your help.

Smiling, we just bought an older Gaggenau steam oven. It has not been installed. The proposed dumb waiter is called the Silent Servant and it is a manual dumb waiter. The electric ones cost a fortune. I found out about this less expensive style of dumb waiter from a poster a number of years back on GW who raved about hers.

Carol


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

The only excuse I can conjure to raise a piece of countertop on that wall is to elevate the DWs a bit. Lots of people now do this for the ergonomics. The problem is that this setup functions well only if you can squeeze a bit of counter height landing space between the sink and the raised dishwashers, so you don't encroach on your elbow room too much. And that would require some rejiggling of that entire cabinet run.

Actually I just thought of another excuse. You could build the steam oven cabinet to be slightly higher than counter height, and put the window over that. If there is a lot of room still between the window and the ceiling, you could possibly then continue the cabinet above the window, since you already have two talls flanking it. Is your elevation posted anywhere?


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

Marcolo,

Thanks for your help! I was also thinking we might be able to justify the shorter window by raising the steam oven (which would be nice anyway). Our ceilings are only 8 feet so there will not be room for cabinets above the window. I hadn't thought about how important seeing kitchen elevation pictures of this proposed kitchen would help me decide firmly about the second window. We have not made elevation pictures yet, but now I super motivated to do so. Thanks again for that suggestion.

Carol


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

Okay, prior to renovations, I would have been able to find my original copy of 3D home architect (previously installed version was erased when computer was repaired). Does anyone know of an inexpensive or even free software that I could use to build 3D elevations for the proposed kitchen
floor plan so I could see the windows and cabinets in 3D?

Carol


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

The most expensive anything is something "free". That includes gifts from relatives, material overages that you "have" to do something with, and the poor flea bitten cat that found me outside of a dumpster and demanded a home.

Just say no to trying to make something work that doesn't. Put it on Craigslist for $100 and use that for a dinner out when the kitchen is non functional during the remodel.


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

I have to agree to sell that extra window. I wouldn't sell it. I'd make it a part of my new potting shed... but NEVER would I give up cabinet space in my kitchen for another window! I've got a huge sink window flanked by two side windows which destroy any hope of upper cabinets in that area. Light is good, but storage is better!!

Suzi


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

Just want to say thank you for the info on the dumbwaiter and the steam oven.


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

Desertdance and Green thanks for the comments. Smiling you are welcome.

The window is a brand new triple pane fiberglass window, not at all a builder special vinyl one. However, selling extra supplies is often necessary. The issue of storage is not a concern as the kitchen will offer tons of storage so I am happy to sacrifice the upper cabinets. Lack of light in the kitchen is an issue for me (the room is darker than I had imagined), but I certainly don't want it to look like a mistake.

Does anyone know of some inexpensive software that I could use to make kitchen elevations so I can see what it would look like to have a taller counter just beside the pantry with the shorter window over top. I think through elevations I will get a clearer picture if I should use the window or not.

Also, if I trim out the bottom of the existing window over the sink, but the not the proposed one over the steam oven would this further pronounce the error (or even make the situation better)? I saw the recent thread on counter height windows which has jam extension on bottom, but trim only on the three other sides. Having the steam up as high as possible would be best for ergonomics.

Carol


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

It's fine to eliminate the apron as needed. I have this in my existing kitchen now with one counter-height window and it doesn't seem odd at all. In the same way the countertop can serve as the sill, as in the pics you've seen; and in those kitchens the other windows have no aprons without looking strange.

Sketchup is free, if you can tolerate the learning curve. I used the HGTV program, which offers a poor selection of cabinetry but it's cheap. The HGTV software does allow you to download Sketchup objects that other people have created, at least.


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

Thanks marcolo for your help. Is the apron the lower trim on a window? When you say the counter top can serve as the sill, do you mean some remove the lower jam extension from their window?

Carol


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

I agree with Marcolo (I usually do) but that natural light would be nice by the cook top. Maybe you could put a window box under it, on the outside...great idea from EATREALFOOD, on another thread :)


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

Thanks lavender_lass for your comments and Marcolo for the extra info. My DH drew up a possible layout of the outside wall showing the extra window. The good news is the extra window is only 1 inch off in height from the other window not 3 inches that I said earlier (oops must have been measuring in the dark). You will see the counter heights of the outside wall bump from 39 inches high to 42 inches high under new window. We do not show bottom trim on the new window, but we do show it on the original window. Any further thoughts on using the extra window now that you see this picture.

 photo kitchensideview_zps9f0369ab.jpg

One of many things we will have to tweak with this plan is to adjust the location of the ovens as the steam oven can't go as low as we show (the regular oven could go where we show the steam oven). One solution would be to put the two ovens (one steam, one regular) in a tall cabinet where pantry is shown (things would also have to scoot down to left) and then bump the pantry to beside the peninsula. Otherwise the ovens could go beside the peninsula near to where I show the sink. Always more tweaking to do.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Carol

This post was edited by OntarioMom on Sun, Mar 24, 13 at 19:22


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

Carol, are you guys really tall? I'm wondering since you show a counter height of 39". Generally 36" is standard.


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

Lyfia, thanks for your comment. I am 5 foot 8 and DH is only an inch taller. Two of our DS are already close to 6 feet. However, we would like our DWs raised for ergonomic reasons, and I've read having the deep sinks in taller cabinets can be nice too (I think in Europe they often vary counter heights depending on function or so one KD told me). However, I will double check that a three inch higher counter for the sink will indeed be comfortable. The island and the peninsula will offer lots of regular height counter surface.

Anyone tried a higher counter height for a sink?

Carol


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

I think that from the drawing you posted that it will look nice, only one inch difference is much more workable than the 3 inches you thought earlier. Maybe you could further differentiate that area under the slightly shorter window by using a different counter top material there. It's interesting that a regular oven can go lower undercounter, but the steam oven cannot, even though it's smaller. I'm assuming that you've verified that in the installation specs, and are not relying entirely on a salesperson's opinion...


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

Hi Smiling,

Thanks for your comments. I really like your idea of differentiating the counter top under the shorter window. I just reread the specs on the steam oven. It may be the minimum 35 3/8th inch height they require is from the top of the unit not the bottom. I will call Gaggenau and check. I may be able to keep the plan I have and not fiddle with an oven cabinet near the peninsula. Thanks for getting me to go back and question this assumption.

Any more votes on using this window after the picture?

Carol


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

Hi,

Just bumping this us so more would give me their opinion now that I have a kitchen elevation picture and the correct window measurements. Does it still look like a mistake given it is only off by 1 inch?

Carol


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

" Does it still look like a mistake given it is only off by 1 inch?". Yes, it actually looks like more of a mistake than the 3" difference with the different counter heights looks. When you have such a small difference in height, the eye doesn't readily see that. It just sees it as "off" without really being able to put your finger on why. With only 1" of difference, if you absolutely must use it, then keep the same counter height and make the difference up in the lower trim. But, I don't particularly care for that look either. I think it throws the whole look off no matter what you do, and I wouldn't attempt to fit it in. Some things are just not meant to be.


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

You could use the window behind a cabinet with glass doors. My cousin has one like this in his kitchen - they use the cabinet to store glass ware, and used the window behind the cabinet for additional light. It turned out great.

You might have to research to see if there are any special installation considerations for this approach. Obviously the window wouldn't be opened. If the window is behind a cabinet, the difference in size from the other window won't be noticeable.

The picture shows an example.


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

Oh, I like the idea of another counter top material under the second window...maybe marble? That will make it 'different' in a good way :)


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

I agree with LWO - the difference in counter heights looks like a mistake.

Since the difference in windows is only an inch, maybe you could make the trim on the smaller window 1/2" bigger on the top and bottom (maybe all the way around, I'm not sure which would look better). That small a difference probably wouldn't be obvious, especially with different sizes and heights in between the two windows.

I would have a hard time giving up more natural light as well, but I do see the point of "don't try to make it work if it won't". It's too hard to change if you hate it.


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RE: Can I use this extra window in my kitchen?

Oh dear, I was hoping it would look good and not a mistake. Thank you all for taking the time to respond and to give me your honest opinions and ideas.

After your recent comments, I am still thinking I could scrap the extra tall counter and keep all the counters a consistent height across that wall. The framer suggested we could cheat the jam extensions by making one jam extension 1/2 inch lower and the other 1/2 inch higher, but we might need a different handle for the shorter jam not to bump. Also, the bottom of the glass would always be one inch higher on one window versus the other. The fridge between the two windows would obscure the comparisons between windows slightly.

The only other thought I had was to use the extra window in the laundry room, and then order a transom to go over it as I wanted the laundry room window to be low enough to see out of while folding laundry at a table. However, that would also likely look like a mistake given the transom top would go higher than our other window tops (our ceilings are only 8 feet). I would have to mock up this combo to be sure the top mullion (spot where window and transom frames butted up together) would not be right at eye level.

If none of these ideas pans out, the option to sell this window will be looked at again.

P.S. Chicagoans, thanks for posting that image. That is a cool solution for sure, although not sure our neighbours' would like the view of our dishes given this window is close to the neighbours' property. In another setting it would be a great compromise.

Thanks again all for posting, and any more opinions are always welcome.

Carol


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