Shoot--I was just at M. Tex, but I don't think I saw piracema. I wish I had known to look for it! The website description sounds a bit similar to Black Galaxy (which I don't see on the website). It is gorgeous!! If I had seen it beofre I chose the Santa Barbara, I probably would have picked it instead. Be sure to get samples from M. Tex. You've got to feel each stone, and see it in person.

In your situation, I would want to know exactly why the fabricator says he doesn't like soapstone. Doesn't like the stone? Doesn't like to work with it? How does he find working with it? Can you see the 2 homes that he did? Can he finish a piece for you to show you how he does it? (My inexperienced fabricator made mine much less silky and smooth than the pieces I felt at M. Tex.) And where does he get his soapstone? What varieties does he offer?

If you feel capable of doing your own template, VWhippiechick just did this with Maine Soapstone. She has a variety called Amazon, which is the prettiest soapstone i've ever seen. The veining is so delicate. Check out her post "I've had my spa treatment." Here experience with Maine Soapstone was great. If you go the DIY route, be sure to find out exactly what the procedure is if some stone arrives broken (which did happen to one forum member here). What will your template be like? What kind of sink cutout? How many seams to deal with?

Francy

sdkitchen - I just answered a question from faeriedust about the whole process we went through with Maine Soapstone. See the thread "?s for vwhippiechick". We had a very good experience.

As Francy said it is called Amazon. A very hard variety according to Maine SS. We wanted a quiet stone and this really fit the bill. It is beautiful (Thanks Francy!)

We considered ordering slabs and hiring a local fabicator but were worried about who would be responsible if something happened. And like you, we couldn't find anyone who had experience or was even enthusiastic about doing it. So we elected to go the DIY route.

Here's a couple of pix. HTH

Thanks Francy and VW hippie - I've followed both of your soapstone threads (including crack saga) all along - and just read the responses to fairiedust. Both of you have beautful kitchens and soapstone.
In answer to your questions, the fabricator here I think only offers Julia, and sight unseen - so no advantage there in terms of seeing the slab.
I think part of his reluctance stems from a previous bad expeience in which a client was very unhappy with the color and veining of her counter after installation. I will definitely ask if there is any way I can see his finished work.
I did order samples from M. Tex, and have been doing the oiling/scratching/banging/sanding bit in my kitchen to make sure I want this... and I do! The Piracema is a dark stone when oiled with some small lighter blotches - so I think that matching up veins wouldn't be too much of an issue - I hope.
I have a fairly (I think) straightforward kitchen planned - U shaped, with a relatively small island in the middle. It will have an undermount sink, and three cutouts for faucet items. I am planning for runnels.
VWhippiechick, I think I'm in exactly your boat, and I thought if I did my own templating then I would have a single responsible party for the stone - M Tex. Well, and dh and me. The install was my fear - but it sounds like your seams were no problem. Was the shimming/leveling a big deal? And by the way, what edge finish did you get? Dh and I are not experienced DIYers, but I will have help from my contracter and crew.
Incidentally, ground breaking doesn't even start until May. I know this seems early, but I'm trying to get absolutely everything in place, so I feel settled in my own mind about how best to do this. Thanks so much!

Shimming and leveling were not a big deal for us. Our cabinets were perfectly level so it was just a few shims here and there to get the seams well aligned. The seams were not too big a deal but Gary told us to go through the motions before we actually did it. This helped. The epoxy sets up quickly so you need to have everything in place before you mix. My husband and I have done a lot of DIY so that helped. He is very skilled in lots of construction areas. Our edge is just what they called an "eased" edge. It is square with the sharp edges knocked down a bit so it is smooth and doesn't chip so easily. We could have gotten the half bullnose for the same price. It is rounded on the upper edge of the slab.
I started researching choices waaayyy before we actually started our project. Looking back I probably sold our old cabinets a little too soon but I wanted to get the project moving and that empty room was a big incentive to DH!! LOL.

Thanks! The eased edge was what I was thinking of doing, so that's good to know. I think we can do this... and I don't see any advantage to using the fabricator in our area over having M Tex doing the cuts.
I just wish I had a Florida Joshua here to do this for me -but last time I checked, SD and Fla were not really close to each other on the map, LOL. Thanks again for your help.

sdkitchen-

Here's my .02 cents for what it's worth..(.02 cents HA!)

In all fairness to the local guy that you do not appear to
have much confidence in - has he done as many Granite & Marble
projects as he's done in Soapstone? This could be a final
factor in determining whether or not he's got the "right stuff"
in order to do your Soapstone. The reason that I am suggesting
that you ponder this before committing to being a DIYer on this
undertaking, is that you are weighing two paths - one
has you driving down the highway with your headlights on "dim"
the other has you going down the highway with your headlights off altogether...

My point is this: even though your local guy may not have
an affinity for Soapstone and has not worked with it very
much, he MAY already have the skill sets to template and
Fabricate other Natural Stones well, so HIS learning curve
may be little or none compared to yours - which will be daunting.

As Florida Joshua has said in a few of his posts on Soapstone
(who I consider to be one of the best informed on the subject)-
there's alot about Soapstone that many traditional
Granite Fabricators don't know... If "works" differently
than Granite, Marble & Limestone, and some of the finer
points need to be "finessed" unlike other types of stone.

BUT - the templating, handling and installing it is pretty
much the same as any other Natural Stone, (from MY own
experience as a Granite Fabricator for the last 23 years-
Joshua may disagree with me on this...)
so maybe your local Fabricator is not as much
"in the dark" as you originally thought...

On the other hand, if he has the same "scared-dear-in-the-headlights"
look on his face when you ask him about his confidence and
experience level when it comes to all other Natural Stones
that he's Fabricated...then, your in trouble... and
you'd better give Joshua a call - and pay him for his tutiledge.

hope that helps ya

kevin

Kevin M. Padden MIA SFA
Fabricator, Trainer & Consultant to the Natural Stone Industry
www.azschoolofrock.com

You will have to weigh this and decide for yourself...

Here is a link that might be useful: Creative Soapstone

Kevin - thanks for your input. The fabricator has certainly done plenty of granite, which is pretty much what most people use in theis area. I wonder if some of his reluctance doesn't just have to do with the unhappiness of that other client who I think was expecting Julia to be a flat black. I will try to feel him out on this - if templating and install is the same, then that's good. In terms of cut and sanding, would he do that, or M Tex? Francy mentioned she didn't think her's had the same same 'silky' feel from her fabricator as at M Tex. And is the seaming pretty similar? If he does good granite seams, then soapstone will be the same? I am so torn over this. Thanks. By the way, do you know of any place in Phoenix I might look at slabs in person? I'm visiting there soon. Especially Piracema and Julia, the two we're considering.

sdkitchen and francy, I was at MTex on Saturday and looked at Piracema, so they definitely have it in stock right now. Before I went there, I thought that would be my favourite, but the oiled slabs I saw didn't have any veining that I could see, and were kind of blotchy. Maybe it was just the slabs I was seeing though. I was much more interested in Black Venata and Julia. Ooooooh, Julia .... :-)

Flatcoat: we weren't there at the same time, were we? You would have known me for sure: I had the 2 little boys who were climbing up the soapstone, and jumpting from one slab to another!

Was the Julia the leathered one? I don't know if I saw Julia, but I did see the leathered one. It was very cool, but in general I think the leathering takes away from the amazing silky, tactile experience that is quintessential to soapstone.

The Mumbai Gray was really interesting too. But the slabs are small.

I need to start a new thread, b/c overall, my experience didn't turn out well (b/c they no longer have my stone...).

SD: if you do decide to DIY, what about using Maine Soapstone instead of M Tex? You could probably hire someone to do the template for you, since you will likely be nervous about that.

Do try to find out more about his reluctance. If his client wasn't prepared for all the nuances of her stone, and she was unhappy, then he may be hesitant about it. But that wouldn't necessarily translate to problems for you.

Francy

Francy - nope didn't see any little kids :-) Too bad they didn't have any more of your stone.

They did have a large slab of leathered Julia (directly to your left as you walk in the driveway), but I am more interested in Julia in a smooth finish. It is really beautiful, deep green with swirls, but no prominent veining. I posted on another thread about it, and how the pricing structure is different for Julia (you have to buy the entire slab, then pay $/sq ft for fabrication/installation) and Black Venata (flat $/sq ft used, all included). I only need about a half-slab, so it doesn't make sense to pay for an entire slab of Julia, even though I love it :-(

Black Venata is really beautiful though, if I go with that it will look awesome too.

Francy, I would definitely consider Maine - I should try to get samples from them.
Flatcoat, can you tell me a little more about the Julia? I remember seeing a beautiful picture that Fla Joshua posted at one point that was swirly with green and some other tones - was that how it looked? My husband was interested in the Piracema becuase he thought the Julia might actually be too plain... but it is so hard to judge from a 4 inch sample. From a scratch, ding and oil standpoint, I was more drawn to the Julia. So, if it was also beautiful, maybe that's the way to go.

Sorry Flatcoat, you must have been posting at the same time as me, and your description is in your post. It sounds like Julia is probably what we want in terms of appearance. You wouldn't have pictures by any chance, would you? Good luck with your choice, too...

That's interesting about the price difference. I didn't know that. I had to buy my entire slab of Santa Barbara, and then the fab/installation was priced separately (whether I used M. Tex or not). The stone was 55 sq foot, and the fab/inst was about 55 sq ft (runnels extra).

How is the Venata priced? How much cheaper is it?

VW: every time I see that photo of your Amazon, I feel weak in the knees. It is so, so delicate looking. I want it! Please, no more photos! :-)

Francy

Francy,

Well, Black Venata was (iirc) $95/sq ft. You pay for the square footage you need, and that includes templating, fabrication, installation, the full monty.

Julia was $50/sq ft for the slab, then $60/sq ft for templating, fabrication, installation. I only need about 38 sq ft, which is about half a Julia slab, so my finances dictate that Black Venata is a better choice. Unless anyone wants to split a Julia slab ??? :-) :-) :-)

Hi,
Our soapstone was recently installed--don't have any pics, as it is currently covered in plastic while the floors are being refinished. It's a dark green with some veining--the stoneyard called it 'classico'. One thing our contractor and installers mentioned about the soapstone was that it was significantly heavier than granite. Could that be why your fabricator isn't so excited about using SS? Perhaps you need to find a beefier installer!

Flatcoat2004 send me an email. Your email link is not set up on the garden web.

Francy - The "WeakKnees" feeling is what I get every time I walk into my kitchen. ;-) When I think of how close I came to going the with another material due to expense, I get that bad weakknee feeling. Whew, another bullet dodged!

Still wondering what decision you made about replacing yours? I love the look of yours too. The vein going across the runnels is so cool.

Sorry I keep posting pix. I just can't help myself.

Joshua - sent. And you can email me through my profile now :-)

We just got our quote back form M.Tex and the price for Piracema is fantastic - $26.00/sq ft with free cut-to-size and edge finish sale! The sink is on sale too. So the total is $1,000 less than Maine Soapstone. HOORAY!

Has anyone done an ogee edge on their soapstone? I haven't seen any pictures of edges other than the square or eased edges. Is there a reason?

Betlv, M.Tex has a display in their showroom with an ogee edge (east coast). There is nothing wrong with doing it, but most seem to like a simple straight edge with soapstone.

I brushed (aka; leathered, antiqued) a piece of Piracema just for fun and it turned out wild. I wish I had a picture of it with me, I think you would have to design the kitchen around that look if you know what I mean. . .

Sdkitchen, this post seems to be all over the place. lol No real downfall to Piracema it just looks as some put it before "blotchy", and some like it others like a quieter stone some like more white veining patterns, some more or less green. I guess itÂs just a matter of preference.

IÂd say go for the DIY. You have time to find someone who is capable of doing the template and install. Vwhippiechick set an example because she dotted all her IÂs and crossed all her tÂs. One thing is she had someone who was hands on to tackle the template and install. Find a contractor who is detail oriented to get excited about soapstone and youÂll have a match. Pay them well for the template and install and some beers after the install could help too. . . lol Also see if you can purchase stone from pictures and samples. Although itÂs not the same as seeing it in person you can have a choice of what soapstone you want.

Kevin, I agree that most granite and soapstone guys template similar. Of course I donÂt, but most do. . .lol

P.S. A pic of our Julia slabs. Veining may vary quite a bit depending on where in the quarry it comes from.

{{!gwi}}

and
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Hey fl-joshua - I thought I was the only one who thought of supplying the beer AFTER the installation. NOT!!! It really worked though! Our volunteers took a lot longer to finish off the brewskis than they did to place the stones.
We saw pics of our stone and it helped but it really did not do the stone justice. Gary told us this but it was amazing how much better it looked "in real life" and especially "in real oiled life". LOL. We definitely relied on Gary's expertise to choose the right stone. I would love to post a pic here but Francy said I couldn't!!! ;-P

Fla Joshua - thank you so much for posting the pics. I really think the Julia is gorgeous - and I'm afraid I wouldn't feel that way about the Piracema. But, as bethv pointed out, the price point seems to be much lower - and with free shipping, which I'm sure for us will be significant part of our total price.
I think you hit on the root of my concern. I don't know much about fabrication and especially the seaming process, and I'm concerned that if I go with someone here who mostly does granite that there may be some differences in the smoothness of the stone, or the edges - or that the seams won't look as good as those I've seen on Garden Web. Honestly, I sometimes think I could live with it more easily if we were responsible for the seams and they weren't perfect, than if I had hired an expert and they weren't, if that makes any sense. And I would have Maine or M Tex do the cutouts and edges and finish - so just the templating and install would be my responsibility. I really go back and forth on this - which is why I appreciate all this advice!

Oh...
Ok.
VW, you can post another picture.
Just don't post that same one again with all the teeny delicate veining. I just can't take it right now (things are looking a bit bleak on my end).

Beer! I have ALWAYS provided beer to any workers in my home. For my 2 soapstone guys, I asked them if they preferred beer, or something like a nice tequila (b/c they SEEMED to be doing such a careful job). They both said Corona. So I zoomed off to the store, and got them each a six pack, plus a lime (organic, of course).

I had planned a bottle of very nice tequila for my cabinet maker. Too bad he never came back to do the final details after he received my check (which he asked for, before the details were done, and I stupidly gave him).

And SD, I totally get what you mean about living with your own mistakes. I feel so "played for a fool" with my counter experience. I can't stand it!

Francy

Thanks Fla Joshua. Of course more info leads to more questions... Are you recommending that DIYs not make their own template? What are the tricky parts? We want to do a small 4" half moon arch out on the back of the pennisula that is over the banquette. The banquette's table end will have the same half moon (our attempt to soften all of the squareness.) That part has me worried, but not the rest - am I blissfully ignorant?

No, not at all. I'm just suggesting if the home owner feels uncomfortable they can hire a contractor to do it. I think if youÂre up for the challenge you'll do fine. Each shop has little different things they do with templates. The half moon arch shouldn't be a problem. Just mark the ends and the 4 inches out and the fabricator will have to shape the arch. No biggie. The details are the key. Don't forget any measurements and make sure nothing changes after template, like moving the cabinets! ! ! You should be fine as long as your fabricator gives you specific instructions on how they want the templates done.

Go for it, now the fun part begins, looking for your stone. . . well maybe you want to wait until your closer, as I remember you may just be starting your build.

Thanks Fla Joshua. I do have some time to decide, but I think I'm leaning towards templateing myself. I'll have workers to help with the install (have to talk to my builder and make sure he's on board with this, but I think it'll be ok) and I'll be sure not to forget the beer. And some for myself:)

I just wanted to update my former post about Julia soapstone ... now that my cabinets install is nearly done, I went back to MTex to order my counters (had planned on Black Venata, since Julia seemed financially out of reach), but they have changed the pricing structure and Julia can be purchased by the square foot. Black Venata and Julia were comparable in price, so I went with Julia ! I was so happy, and my total square footage turned out to be less than I thought it would, due to the slide-in range (can just put a strip behind it).

Woo hoo ! Templating on Friday !

Flatcoat This is great news. I know how excited you are. Good luck and hope everything goes smoothly. You know the drill - Pix Pix Pix!!!