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Please help with kitchen layout

Posted by mdln (My Page) on
Fri, Feb 14, 14 at 23:13

I have a small galley kitchen and am looking for layout ideas/suggestions.

Am looking to include: farm-style/apron sink; 30" electric stove; OTR microwave; 30" top freezer fridge; and 24" dishwasher. Sink location cannot be moved, due to plumbing. Ceiling height is 99".

Wall from sink/window area and to the right - is most visible from living areas (so would like to make that most aesthetically pleasing).

THANK YOU!!!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

the best order is not hard to figure out: refrigerator, DW, sink, stove.

Seventy and one half inches on each side of center:
Fridge 30 + 1.5" (wiggle room for fridge)
DW 24
One half of sink 15"

So that's exactly 70.5" of the left;

On the right: One half sink = 15"
Stove = 30"
Clearance on right of stove =7.5" Use a narrow pullout for this.
Remainder to be a narrow drawer stack 18"

If this was all the room I had then I would get narrower everything: fridge (hardest to find), DW (18" ones are available) sink (I'd go down to 27") and 24" range. Even with a 30" fridge, reducing the other sizes would yield enough another 18" to add to the cab/drawer spaces.

I'd divide that into a 9" pullout pantry on left of fridge (to improve fridge access).

For the other side I'd add the 9" to the 18" and get a 27" drawer stack. This will be your prime prep space.

HTH

L.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Thank you, L.

What would you suggest I do on the other side of the room (the 96" space)?


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

It seems to me you have a very straightforward situation that will take a lot of the agony out of decisions, because the size and shape of the area makes a lot of the decisions for you.

I was always told the most effective layout includes a good 'work triangle' with the stove, sink and refrigerator. I think that still applies. Since you have the sink on the only outside wall though, I would want to put the stove on that wall, too, so it can easily be vented to the outside. That would put the refrigerator on the 96 inch wall. Maybe in the corner away from the stairs?

If the window on the outside wall is centered on 141 inches, and you center a 30" sink under the window, then you have 55.5 inches left to work with on either side of it. It would have worked out better if the window wasn't centered, then you would be able to put more space between the sink and the stove, but if you can't move the window/sink…you could get a 24 inch stove but it depends on how much cooking you intend to do. There are disadvantages to having one that small. You can read up on that.

But if you put a 30" stove and a 30" sink on that wall, you have to have counter on both sides of the stove. I think Liriodendron is right, go to a 27" sink. That leaves you 57 inches on either side of the sink. Take away 30 inches for the stove, leaves you with 27" to position it on either side of the sink. I would use 18" between the sink and the stove and that leaves you 9" clearance between the stove and the corner wall. And the other side of the sink open space for counter with a dishwasher under.

I would put the stove to the left of the sink with venting above in order to leave a good work space on the other side across from counter rather than stairs. I went with a microwave above my stove because it was on an inside wall and the venting system is inadequate for any serious cooking on the stove. If you don't plan to cook on the stovetop a lot, it's probably not that big a deal.

So on that 141 inch wall, a 9" space then a 30" stove, an 18" set of drawers or pull out trash below then a 27" sink, then maybe an 18" dishwasher if you think you can live with that. Can you fit pots and pans in that? That leaves you 39" to use whatever way you like. You also have 57" of counter space, which is a nice work area.

On the 96 inch wall, If you put the refrigerator right next to the stairs, I assume you might have less trouble opening the doors to the fridge. You might need that 9inch pull out floor to ceiling pantry between what I assume is a wall and the refrigerator. You could look for a bottom freezer, with double doors above which would make opening the doors easier too. Then you would have 57 inches of clear counter space directly opposite the 57 inches of counter space on the sink/stove wall. And cabinets below and above. I see some people now go with all drawers below the counter for easier access. Or if you felt you need more storage room rather than counter space, you could put a 24 inch floor to ceiling cabinet at either end of that 96 inch wall with the refrigerator next to it and that would still leave you with a 42" counter space next to the refrigerator.

That is what would make the most sense to me, from an effective work space perspective, not taking into consideration how attractive it is. And it's certainly not the only configuration that would work well. That's just my initial effort.

I don't know if you are familiar with the Houzz website or not, but great photos of whatever you are looking for. I typed in 'small galley kitchens' and there are some nice examples that you can look at. What is nice about it is people ask questions about the photos and sometimes there are answers there too. Link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Small Galley Kitchens on Houzz

This post was edited by prairiemoon2 on Sat, Feb 15, 14 at 4:59


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

I saw this kitchen on that Houzz link, that seems to represent the idea that Liriodendron suggested, pretty well. Except you have the window.

Here is a link that might be useful: Liriodendron's ideas illustrated on Houzz


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

The other thought, is that I wouldn't be happy with a stove that had 9 inches on one side and 18" on the other. I cook and that is not the greatest set up. It would be better for the refrigerator and the sink to be on the same wall with the stove having plenty of room on both sides on the other wall. The only reason I tried to get it on the sink wall was to vent it outside easier. Sometimes you can get it to vent outside even on the other wall, it's just more expensive. Or you could do the microwave vent above on that inside wall. A lot of the photos on Houzz that look like a great work space to me, have the stove opposite the sink/refrigerator on the other wall. Link to an example below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sink Refrigerator on one side, Stove on the other


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Thank you, prariemoon2. I am looking throught the 55,575 pics on Houzz - seriously! While I often envy other kitchens on GW, it is nice to see there are even smaller kitchens with greater structural limitations. :-)


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

I love this kitchen.

Here is a link that might be useful: brooklyngalley's kitchen


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Thank you may_flowers. That is an awesome kitchen, very inspiring!!!


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

I would have sink and stove on the top with a real vented hood, not an OTR microwave. You have space to not have one. And it being an exterior wall easy to vent it outside.

RF on the bottom wall along with pantry storage and microwave. I would use COunter depth fridge or see about recessing a regular fridge to avoid encroaching on your aisle space.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Something like this? Maybe glass uppers on the right side of sink?

From Kitchen plans

This post was edited by lavender_lass on Sat, Feb 15, 14 at 23:13


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Thank you lavender_lass! I'd not thought of glass uppers to "dress up" that side. Great idea.

Am venting to outside, no matter which side the stove is on. Builder already agreed to it.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Glass uppers always open up a small space to me, too. That looks great, LLass. I put a deep cabinet over my refrigerator that holds long cookie sheets and trays. Just trying to make every inch functional. We use it all the time.

That lower cabinet between the sink and refrigerator is a perfect spot for trash. I think you are going to need that tall pantry too. We have a bottom freezer refrigerator that pulls out in the same position as in LLass's drawing. We left a few inches on it's left side to open the upper door more fully. We do have to take apart the produce drawers to get them out to wash them, but it's no big deal. Something you can check out in the store as you are looking for a refrigerator.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Lavenders plan is nice. I wonder if you would have more prep space by lining all appliances on the top wall?

Something like the picture I've included? It's not that much different than what liro suggested.

This would require a smaller fridge. I've seen 24" wide from fisher and paykel and liebherr as well as some generic brands or you could even do a 27" which may be more common across brands. If you do 27" you'd likely need to shrink either the DW or the 36" sink base. Ideally I would like a 27" sink in 30" base. I think you could do two pullouts on each side of the range. Perhaps one could house utensils. The other oils or spices? I chose a hood so the attention is drawn to the windows rather than the cabinetry or microwave.

What I really like about this plan is you gain 5 ft or more of uninterrupted prep space with dish storage above. Then you could even have a small 24" -30" pantry depending on door trim. In the pantry stack you could do a MW drawer or just hide a small MW on a shelf.

Glass cabinets as Lavender suggested may be nice. However if you have a mish mosh of dishes in every color of the rainbow the glass, it could make the cabinets encroach on the space. I'd almost rather see solid doors thinking the right style of door would cause the cabinetry to recede into the wall. However either would work.

Just something else to consider. Good luck!


Edited for typing errors.

This post was edited by NashvilleBuild42 on Sun, Feb 16, 14 at 6:31


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

@ NashvilleBuild42, thank you. The hood really opens up the space; I'd not thought of that either. I could use an 18'' DW, to allow more fridge space.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Are you left or right handed? I assume that most people rinse out dishes and glasses sometimes, even with a dishwasher and put them down on the counter to dry. They would most likely have to go to the left of that sink.

Yes, you do get one larger prep area, but you lose upper cabinets on the wall with all the appliances on it. I'm sure you could calculate the difference in square footage of cabinet space. And then it is what size cabinets you need that you want to figure out too. Before I ordered cabinets, I made a list of every single thing that was going into the kitchen and where it was going to go. And once you have a plan that you like, walk yourself through putting away groceries, cooking your favorite meal, and cleaning up and see if it all works as you want it too. This is your chance to have a custom space that is designed for exactly what you need and want.

In a small space, it's hard to fit everything in. I do like the look of the stove with the hood, and fewer cabinets on one wall, but do you have the luxury of doing that? It is a personal choice of what is going to give you the most of what you need and want. You need storage and prep space and appliances. You want it to look nice. It's just a case of finding what the balance is for you. Maybe prep space is more important to you than storage space, or vice versa. You just want to try not to build into your design an annoyance that you could have designed out of it. Say you have nowhere for trash, or you have a Kitchen Aid Mixer and nowhere to put it, or too many small appliances cluttering up the counters that you tried so hard to provide in the design, or you can't put your plate of chicken cutlets next to the stove as you are adding them to your pan, or your pots won't fit in the dishwasher and you always have to clean them by hand. [btw, good idea is to take your large or awkward plates and pots to the store and see if they fit in the dishwasher you are considering].

This post was edited by prairiemoon2 on Sun, Feb 16, 14 at 7:14


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Prairie's response is why I love this forum. You will receive so many different opinions and points to consider. By the time anyone makes a decision, we know they've fully considered options and cost/benefit of each choice.

Prairie makes a good point on the space next to stove. We only use 8.5" plates in our house so i forget others may not be able to sit a plate on top of a 12" cabinet. Perhaps it would be best to shrink the side nearest the wall and expand the cabinet between sink and stove to a larger 18" ds. Personally We lived in a slightly smaller galley and I loved how EVERYTHING was just a short pivot away. The only thing I longed for was a bigger prep space. We had a layout similar to lavenders but had no space larger than 30" to prep. It wasn't ideal for making pierogis or wontons etc. I'm not sure how much storage you lose in my layout. You do have an entire 96" of cabinetry uppers lowers and a pantry. But as prairie suggested it'd be best to inventory your tools and dishes to determine storage needs. My thinking is 30" drawer bases provided more flexibility. But I can see the other side of that argument too.

As I'm sure you know small spaces require creativity. For us we ended up keeping a small box for recyclables in a nearby mudroom, but our trash was underneath the sink. A crockpot and Belgian waffle maker which we rarely used were stored in a closet. Since we rarely drank coffee our coffee maker was stored in the pantry. Yet our teakettle was always prominently displayed on the back burner of stove. If we needed to air/hand dry anything we put it to the left over the DW no big deal. When not in use the drain rack collapsed and slid into a holder underneath the sink.

Good luck!


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

I would find just a 30" space for prep to be limiting as well and can understand why prep space would weigh heavily for you. It's so great when any of us actually get to start from scratch and design a kitchen that just suits us! And I agree that having so many different points of view does help someone trying to get their kitchen right for them. And it's fun hearing everyone's experiences.

You were lucky to have a mudroom and a pantry for overflow items. We have overflow only for items that are oversized like the turkey roasting pan and dome cover and the largest stock pot that rarely gets used but had to keep them in the basement. But we have a little bit larger than a galley kitchen, but not by much.

It's funny you should say how easy it is to cook in a galley kitchen, I was just thinking about that yesterday when I was looking at some of the photos on this forum of very large kitchens and I thought how much walking you'd do between the sink the stove and the fridge. lol I'm used to a couple of steps.

We also have one of those collapsible wooden dish drainers that fits in the cabinet above the refrigerator with the trays. Our coffee maker stays in the tall cabinet and comes out on the weekends.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Oh…and love your design program, Nashville!


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Can the fridge be moved to the corner of the 96" wall, thereby leaving the window wall for glass cabinets and additional counter space near the sink? I realize it may block the doorway on occasion, but that tiny kitchen has to be most comfortable for the cook first.

I'd start at the 96" corner with a pull-out like brooklyngalley did. Her pull-out (and mine) has a cabinet over it for cookie sheets, trays and cutting boards. Then the deep cab over the fridge can be fully utilized to store large, light-weight, or seldom-used items. Mine stores small appliances since I don't have a Susan.

I think if you shrink any appliance, the DW should be it. You can always hand wash your pots and pans, but you can't store cold food elsewhere or ask your neighbor to cook a turkey for you.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

I was just thinking of moving the fridge to the 96'' wall corner - to give me more prep area, near the sink.

LOL at thought of asking my neighbor to store & cook a turkey - because my appliances were too small; they're so nice, they'd probably do it.

This group is GREAT!!! Love hearing your thoughts and all the pros & cons, it is SO VERY helpful.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

With the fridge on the 96" side, you could put your microwave in an upper cabinet next to it. You could even go to a 12" pantry pull-out--the 8" pull-outs don't hold much. I have a 12" in the corner between a wall and my fridge and it holds all my canned and boxed foods. With a 36" CD fridge, you'd still have 48" of counter space on that side.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Like some other previous posters I'd prefer the sink and range on the same wall and the fridge on the 96 wall. I would even consider having the sink a little bit off center and try to have a slightly wider cab b/w the wall and the range. I never had a slide in range, but if a 30" slide in needs less inches than a free standing one and not too costly maybe you should consider a slide in.

If you are tall, I'd suggest up lifting doors for uppers (makes prep and unloading of DW much easier in small kitchens imo). If you won't have top moulding, you can consider starting the uppers higher than 18" from the counter and use wall mounted dish drainer, spice racks, etc.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

I tried drawing it with the fridge on the back wall...but if you can't move the sink, you end up with no prep space around the range. Normally, I like the sink and range on the same wall, but with better prep space around each appliance, I'd choose the sketch I did above. It also allows a nice view of the glass upper cabinets...which would give almost a butler's pantry look from outside the kitchen :)


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

I have almost the exact same sized kitchen!! Except mine is a little narrower (7.5 ft!) And it gets a ton of traffic because it sits between the original living space of a small house and the much-used family room that was added by previous owners in the 1980s. After a LOT of thinking, testing, planning and waiting, I had a layout ready to go this fall. (It got delayed till spring when the contractor we had given a deposit to go rogue.)

I have 142" on the exterior side and about 108" on the interior (accounting for a door to a laundry/utility space.) Our plan is to move the sink and range to the exterior wall. The sink will NOT be centered on the window, mostly to ensure as much counter space between them as possible. We'll also steal about 48" on that wall by widening an opening to a breakfast room (it's load-bearing so it took some thinking before I convinced my husband it was worth the cost.) We'll swap the fridge onto the interior wall, recessed about a foot into the laundry room, and make the rest of that wall shallow depth cabinets (15" deep lowers) with uppers to house a microwave and glass doors for dishes. That side will be almost like a hutch, the counter will house the coffee maker which is literally the only thing in the kitchen my husband uses.

Fwiw, I had about 10 billion alternative layouts. After a ridiculous amount of "doodling" via the Ikea software, and after spending some time experimenting with different options after my old range died, I realized that there were two absolute top priorities for us: one was as much aisle space as possible (we'll end up with just 48") and two was having the stove and sink on the same side (to avoid smacking a passerby in the face with a pot of hot pasta.) I have CD French door fridge and a 30" range; I'm hoping I can swing a 30" Whitehaven sink but whatever the case, the sink base won't be more than 30".

In your case, I'm not sure if I would crowd all the appliances on the exterior wall. I've spent the past decade with a big stretch of almost 100 inches of open counter top opposite my sink and stove, and I literally have to force myself to use it when I'm cooking. Instead, right now, I mostly prep between the sink and range, because it just feels natural.

I think any of the layouts that the other posters have proposed COULD work; you just have to figure out what is going to work best for your habits and needs. Test each alternative out, and try to figure what feels comfortable. I was all set to move just the range across the aisle until mine died and I used an induction burner for a few weeks - it was just torture for me to keep going back and forth between the two sides.

BTW I have a lot of links to really nicely redone galley kitchens that have been posted on GW. Brooklyngalley's is one of them but not the only one. I keep meaning to start a thread with all the links and will try to do so soon.Good luck - I look forward to seeing what you decide (and to seeing my own plan come to life as well!)


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

You might also reconsider the farm sink for one where you can put a fitted cutting board across it. There's your counter space to the left of your stove.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

If you decide to have the range very close to the wall make sure that the wall isn't on the side of your dominant hand.. In our summer house there is a wall on the right side of the range. I'm left handed so I'm fine with it, but my right handed neighbors are not too happy with this arrangement.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Thank you, smalloldhouse! Great to find someone with the exact same kitchen.

I thought of putting all appliances on one side and making the other side hutch-like with a long open counter. Was afraid it would look good, but I would not use the counter - because it was across the aisle (which would seem like across an ocean). Glad to hear your comment about having to "force" yourself to use it.

I like your plan, wish my OCD would let me move the sink off center. I even considered trying to do that and hide it with some type of window treatment.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Just a contrary opinion - I have all my appliances (everything!) on one side and a huge expanse of counter on the other side in my faux-galley kitchen (one side is against a wall, the other is an island). I do all prep on the island, and love being able to spread out. I only use the space next to the cooktop (15" to the left, and about 20" to the right which is between cooktop and sink) as a staging/landing area.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Ugh, duplicate post! Sorry!

This post was edited by smalloldhouse on Mon, Feb 17, 14 at 4:45


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

I thought about moving the sink off center and having a big prep area between the stove and sink, and the window would be over the prep area, which might be nice to be able to look out of while working. But then you are standing at a sink looking at a wall. I don't think I would like that. Besides which when you are preparing a meal, your eyes are down a lot of the time.

We have 18" counters on either side of a 30" stove and we use it for landing only. No prep happens there. We do all prep on the peninsula counter and then move to the stove when it's ready to go on the stove.

We have another prep area between the refrigerator and sink that is only 42 inches wide and that is a secondary prep area. The peninsula is everyone's first choice but when more than one person is cooking both prep areas get used. But even with a third cook in the kitchen, no one uses the 18" counters for prep by the stove.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

I have almost the same kitchen. We bought the house a year ago and I've had plenty of time to decide what doesn't work. Frankly nothing works!

Our refrigerator is next to the dishwasher and I find that doesn't work well. Whenever someone is unloading the dishwasher, you can't get to the fridge. The cabinets above the dishwasher contain dishes and to unload the dishwasher you have to stand in the way of the sink or the fridge. Our range is in the same position as Nashvilles diagram. If the oven door is open it blocks the walk way from the dining room. Our sink is centered under a window (same as diagram) and there just isn't enough landing space for the stove or the sink.

I am planning to move the fridge to the other wall when I do the remodel. I'm just not sure where to put the stove. I don't like it in the walkway from the dining room. We have another doorway on the opposite wall so can't put it there.

This thread has to be the best I've read on the Forum. Its given me so much to think about.

I wish you good luck and will follow your progress.

Jane


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Thank you, jane_ny. Am still LOL at your "frankly nothing works!" comment.

Was hoping the "perfect" solution was out there, and thought I just could not figure it out myself.

I am so very appreciative of everyone's willingness to take the time to share their wisdom & comments. I feel like I have a group of BGWF's.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

I think you have to treat these small galley kitchens like a bathroom. No one else is allowed in once it's occupied. I would advise you add a door that says "KEEP OUT!" on it!


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

@sena01 - good point. I am right handed and always use the area to the right. Never thought about that.

@sjhockey fan - yes, I did think the huge expanse of countertop would be nice to work on.

@may_flowers - great bathroom analogy!


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

How would it look to center the fridge on the 96" wall, giving you ~33" on each side? Then whoever was clearing the table could put the dishes/fridge items on the counter near the door and not have to enter the room and interfere with the dish loader. You could put the plated dishes on that counter for a helper to bring to the table too.

Or you could scoot the fridge toward the stairs a little more and have a longer counter on that side. I don't think I'd want the fridge or a pantry cabinet to start that run because a big box could seem oppressive as you enter. I also think you bring groceries in through that door, and it'd be nice to have some counter for unloading refrigerated items.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Thanks to everyones suggestions, here is my latest plan.

What do you think????


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

It looks nice, mdln. RW is refrigerator, right? I think that can work fine. I can't see any problem with it. Nice 30" base cabinets and uppers on the sink wall. 15" on both sides of the stove are manageable when you have two 54" spaces for prep a few steps or a pivot away. I assume the DW is 24" is that right? Is that smaller than standard? If so, it is better than an 18" DW. Looks like a 30" sink and stove too, which I think is important. I think it emphasizes prep area over storage a little, but maybe that suits you? I still think you have a reasonable amount of storage there and a lot of great prep area. You can fit a lot of pans in your 15" bases and making them drawers would be convenient. You could also look for a Stove with a bottom drawer if you need more storage. A cabinet above the refrigerator would help. Is there room for an open shelf above the window that you could display some pretty bowls or pieces that are awkward to store in the cabinets?

How do you like it? Does it work out to be good for what you need?


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Thank you prariemoon2!

Yes, RW is for a fridge wall cabinet. Standard dishwashers (DW) are 24", there are far less 18" DW's avail so it really limits choices. The wall cabs will be 42". There is only 10" above the window (above the sink) and a shelf there would be an invitation for kitty. Am thinking of drawers for the 30" & 24" base cabs. Yes, stove has a bottom drawer. Am probably going to put a hutch in the dining room on the wall right next to the door.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

I'd rather have the fridge on sink wall, with more generous landing and prep right by stove. Easier to lay out ingredients or spices. It does look like you have found a nice balance. But I would just prefer to flip the fridge. Then flank the range with two 30-33" drawer bases.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

I think Nashville may be right, much as I hate to mess up the pretty sink wall. I need space around the stove because I can get a little fast and furious managing everything. You have a large sink to manage dishes, so it can be a little tighter there. There are also four 15" cabinets in your plan.

You said you want the view to be to the right of the sink, correct? So with the fridge on the left, that would give you lavender lass's plan. If you do that, I would omit the pantry, giving you three generous drawer bases and uppers.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Because of the dishwasher to the left of the sink, there is not enough space to put the fridge next to it (because of the space needed for fridge door opening)....... Know this because I had it there, but builder strongly discouraged it and the fridge spec sheet said I needed more clearance.

One of the 15'' cabs will be trash.

THANK YOU everyone for your critical eye, I very much appreciate it.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Can the fridge go opposite where you've shown it in your last plan? Is there room to open the fridge door past the dining room wall (or widen the door opening so you can)? Or, is the fridge door reversible?

Then you can center the range on the bottom wall, and have nice 30" drawers and uppers on each side.

I have 42" uppers, an undercab range hood, and I love the cabinet above that. The top shelf is perfect for large items I don't use much, like a stock pot and plastic pitcher.

Can your trash go under the sink?


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

I agree with nash and Ann. More functional if the stove is alone flanked by big drawers for cooking tool, spices snd pots and pans. It appears the fridge could just flip sides right by dr wall.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

I assumed you'd move the DW to the right of the sink if the fridge went in the left corner. You said you wanted to keep the wall to the right of the sink pleasing, so cabs would be nicer than a fridge. You would stand to the right of the DW and unload directly into that cabinet closest to the DR. Fridge opens toward the sink, so easy to get out items to prep. No blocking of doorway to DR with an open fridge door.

This post was edited by may_flowers on Tue, Feb 25, 14 at 15:53


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

What is definite?

The sink on the long wall under the window
Full size appliances

Mdln, said he tried putting all the appliances on the long wall and felt that then the only prep space for him was on the wall opposite all the appliances and that was too foreign to his normal work routine.

So is that a definite, Mdln? You don’t want all appliances on one wall?

Then if the sink is on the long wall, then it’s either there with the fridge or the stove or neither. Only three options. If you put the stove on the same wall as the sink, I don’t see how that improves the workspace around the stove. It is still a cramped area on both sides of it. If you put the refrigerator on the long wall, you either have it in one corner or the other. You believe that to the left of the sink, will not fit due to clearance of opening the door to the refrigerator, right? So the corner wall by the DR doorway is the only place for it on that wall. Then you end up with a large counter and prep area directly opposite the stairs which I see as inconvenient and out of the work flow, IF you are using the stove. BUT….you do now have a large prep area next to the stove, which is now alone on the other wall, IF you do not have a tall pantry, but rather upper and lower cabinets and drawers. and in a very good triangle with the sink and refrigerator and that counter space to the left of the sink could be a place for microwave or coffee maker or just a 2nd prep area when you have someone else cooking in the kitchen. And you actually have a good prep area next to the sink and a good prep area next to the stove. So this is a layout that could work. So that’s it. You really only have three options to choose from…..

Option #1
the sink & stove on same wall which,
again leaves you with cramped space by
the stove.

Option #2
sink and fridge on same wall, in only
one possible position for the fridge,
corner by the DR door

Option #3
is your latest layout with the sink
on the long wall alone and stove
and fridge together on the shorter wall.
Fridge has to go in a corner, opening
either toward the stairs or toward the
DR doorway.

Each layout has it’s own weaknesses and strengths. It’s just a question of which set of those you feel most comfortable with.

The question to answer, Mdln, is where do you normally work? Next to the sink for preparing to cook, or next to the stove, or between a sink and a stove? And have you worked with a stove with only 15 inches of landing space on either side?

I have 18” on either side and feel that is acceptable but not ideal at all. And I had to change my work habits to accommodate that. I have to prep on the opposite side [although I have a peninsula] and then move to the stove with something that is all ready to cook. Those 18” are just landing spots and 15” does seem small to me too, but maybe to you it is a better alternative.

I hope you spend some time looking at this layout and imagining one whole cycle of meal prep, using it. From going to the food store to shop to coming home with the groceries and putting them away and getting the food out, preparing the meal, cooking it on the stove, if you are going out of the kitchen to eat, imagine going there and coming back in with your dishes and cleaning up and putting away leftovers and emptying the dishwasher. This may help you reveal any issues you are going to have. And maybe you could do the same thing with a layout that places the fridge on the other wall.

It might also help if you either find a kitchen center that has just 15" on either side of the stove and see how it feels life size, or if you can't find that, then tape off the 15" space on either side of the stove now and practice using it and staying in the taped area to see how it feels.

I think you are definitely making progress and getting closer to a final plan.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Start with a 9" pull-out pantry in the upper left so she can open the fridge, buy a 27 or 30" fridge, and she'll have a 15" counter to the left of the sink. Dirty dishes will come in to the right from the DR.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

I'm the poster with the exact same size kitchen and I know it's all about trade offs. So I see why some posters are suggesting changes to your layout but I also see why it might be the best option.

Key question for me wrt the fridge placement is whether you have kids or others in the house - if so I'd keep the fridge where you've placed it closest to the dining room on the stove side - then others can grab a drink or snack even while the cook is busy or the dishwasher is open without having to squeeze by.

Other point to consider - your layout avoids any bump between an open oven door and an open dw. Not sure if the suggestions by others would leave you constrained in that department - it may not be an everyday occurrence, but I'm trying to stagger things so everything can open unimpeded. I see the downsides of 15" one other side of the range but with a free 108 inches of countertop on the other side, it seems viable to me.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Thank you!!!

Yes, sink needs to stay under the window, the GC already put plumbing there. He'd kill me if I changed that. Am already going with a smallish fridge (30''), standard 30'' stove, don't want to downsize dishwasher because of the limited choices (and increased cost).

If I put the 30'' fridge to the right of the sink, it is what you would see from the front door. The area to the right of the sink is very visible from front door, so I want to keep that cabinets. Thus, the 24'' dishwasher is to left (not right) of the sink.

I generally do prep next to the sink. Thus, the large amount of counter-space surrounding the sink.

My sister (who I frequently house/dog-sit for) has small areas to the sides of her stove and the only thing I use them for is landing zones.

I will be the only one cooking in the kitchen (no DH).


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

It seems you are settling for 15" cabinets and counter space so that whoever is at the door doesn't see your DW or a fridge to the right of the sink. Is that driving the design? What don't you like about the fridge in the left corner and the DW on the right of the sink?


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Thanks for the question may_flowers.

I, also, do not want to be sitting in my living room or dining room, and be looking at the SS fridge or dishwasher. It is more about what I would be looking at, than anyone else.

Fortunately, I don't see it as settling for 15'' cabinets & counterspace, but rather the huge amount of counter space I will have next to my sink - where I use it.

The amount of space next to my stove will actually be more than I had before (zero on side, 16" on the other).

Unfortunately, a 27'' fridge is beyond my budget. (I looked at them, they are awesome looking.)


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Since one 15" cabinet will be trash, I would suggest a drawer over it for potholders. Use the same drawer over cabinet configuration for the other cab to hold spoons and spatulas. 15" isn't practical for a drawer base. I have a drawer over my 13 1/2" trash cabinet, and the interior drawer space is only 10 1/2". It's frameless construction, which I assume you'd be using.

That top drawer would also make a nice spice drawer. You won't want to be digging around in the 15" cabinet for spices.

This post was edited by may_flowers on Wed, Feb 26, 14 at 11:04


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Could you put cafe doors on the opening? That would partially hide the kitchen from view.

I am all about function over form... to a point. In my U-shaped kitchen, the sink is at the closed end, and the open end faces the dining room. My design was criticized for having the DW on a leg, and not next to the sink. Putting the DW next to the sink would have screwed up a lot of storage space - and I didn't want to sit at the dining table and look right at the DW. So I understand your desire for an attractive view, but I hate to see you have to eliminate some good layouts as a result.

Hang in there - with the wonderful help here, and your time and effort in planning, the perfect compromise will evolve!


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

@may_flowers - yes, drawer for potholders, and probably the other for spices. The other 15" base will be for things that won't fit in drawers (crock pot, blender), as I'm doing al drawers on the other side. Thank you!

@annkh - cafe doors would drive me crazy. However, thanks for the idea. Received another msg from you this AM, not posted here - not sure why. Again, thank you for the ideas.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Hmm, I haven't sent any messages. It wasn't me. I hope it wasn't something inappropriate.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

  • Posted by mdln none (My Page) on
    Wed, Mar 12, 14 at 10:04

@ annkh - screenshot of e-mail received this AM


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

mdln, you must have checked the box to receive automatic emails whenever there is a post on this thread. The system does not always work that well which may be why you are now getting an email from Feb 25th. If you don't want to get the emails you have to uncheck the box.


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Silly GW. Thanks, debra, for the explanation.

Hope that helps, mdln!


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

Wondering how the kitchen planning is coming along? Did you decide on a final layout?


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

After spending many hours using NKBA software on desktop & Chief Architect room planner on ipad, trying out designs using all the great suggestions generous GW posters gave me, I finally decided on the attached.

A couple of personal things came into the design. Unlike most, I prefer things in a cabinet vs on a countertop. I like to easily wipe down an empty countertop. Also, looked into friends pantry cabinets (with their permission) and generally saw them to be a mess; thus, I am using shallow cabinets that sit on the countertop.

Please no brutal comments at this point, as the contract is signed.

THANK YOU so much to everyone who posted suggestions. I am so very grateful to you, for your thoughtful input.

Here is a link that might be useful: NKBA virtual planning tool


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

I'm the one with a very similar sized kitchen and I think your 3D layout looks great! I went back and forth over including a hutch down to the countertop but didn't do it. Looking at your mock-up, I wish I had! Please post your reveal once the time comes!


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RE: Please help with kitchen layout

THANK YOU smalloldhouse. The amount (sq inches) of counter space I "lost" with countertop cabinets is the same as I'd have lost with a pantry cabinet.

I saw the tall (60") cabinets in the showroom and really liked them. Not inexpensive, but when compared the cost to pantry cabs with rollouts I felt the price difference was worth it. The kitchen also seemed more "open" with these compared to the design with a pantry cabinet.

Again, thank you!


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