I have a couple of pieces of bad news.

The aisle between the sink and island will actually be about 3' even. That's because the program is measuring the cabinets, not the counter. It's a little small with a dishwasher in it. The range aisle would be about 3'4" MINUS the amount that the range depth plus handles are wider than about 26".

Corner pantries are either 30" by 48" for a flat reach in OR 48"-60" on both walls for a walk-in. Your inspiration photo looks about 54" to me.

You can't bury the ref in a cave next to the washer,dryer because the doors won't open all the way for cleaning. And if its an actual side by side, you likely won't be able to use the drawers. The doors should be in front of the obstructions.

Moving the ref out a bit may cause another issue with the washer and dryer - doors banging into ref. I can't quite figure out the 1'10" deep space, but life would be easier if it went washer/dryer, tall storage, ref. It would also remove most of the "barrier island" concern.

Except you'd need to accept the trade off of not being able to use washer and dryer with seated people. And possibly needing to widen the door on the right side.

If you end up leaving the ref, you might want to move the prep sink some. It is right in the best landing space for the ref.

It's difficult to say, but I'd really try to find somewhere else for the washer and dryer. I'd try using a three foot wide island to relieve the narrow aisles - even if that meant there was only one or two seats left(towards dining and one towards bottom doors.

I can't quite figure out the assemblage of cabinets on the bathroom wall, but one way to think of that area is a combination breakfast bar - meaning toaster, coffee pot, cereals and stuff with pantry above and below the counter. Above in 14" deep wall cabinets that might come down to the counter, and below with extra deep base cabinets with all drawers.

Thanks for the feedback. So, how wide should I shoot to make the aisle on the three sides (sink, range, current wall of doors)? The washer dryer/fridge will fit there- I dont know how exactly it works but my friend has the same house and she just did it in her kitchen. I am planning on getting rid of all the doors and walls there and putting in cabinets around things. The 1'10" inch space is frustrating but there is an air vent behind it, which is why its awkward.

The cabinets on the bathroom wall I dont really know how to lay out, but currently we have tons of kids stuff - crafts, games, etc. that we need to put in there as well as electronics. So I think I need to keep the 1"10 space as pantry or the corner pantry. But I think you are telling me my drawing of the pantry is too small based on the photo of the one I liked. Which means its probably not going to work...

Let's start with layout. It will be a lot easier if we can see the layouts in the thread, so here they are...

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Kitchen

1. Appliances

• Stainless Range- 6 burner, gas-like functionality of induction but do not like look as much so will probably go with gas). Put against short wall or corner

• Stainless Fridge (French door?). Put where washer is now.

• Double Oven/Warming Drawer- may leave out second oven if micro is large with convection

• Microwave

• Wine fridge

• Stack washer/dryer

• Farm sink- large single basin

2. Counters

• Granite

• Prep sink (silgranit? Ss?) in Island with foot pedal across from range

3. Cabinets

• Glazed, raised panel detail, furniture look, off-white glazed for main  full overlay with hidden hinges or inset- details and finish important

• Cabinets full extension and soft close.

• Upper cabinets 13 Â 14 inches

• Cabinet- preference for deep drawers under counters vs. doors

• Iron knobs- vintage look

• Possible slight bump out on farm sink cabinet

• Darker glazed wood island (maybe knotty alder)

• Darker glazed wood office/cocktail area on wall that is currently blank- need hiding charging station for LOTS of cameras/ipods/cell phone, etc.

• Appliance Garage- unless corner panty

• Lots of embellishments/corbels/cab feet

• Tall cabinet for cutting boards and cookie sheet

• Drawer for knives

• Drawer for bread

• Cabinets to ceiling (39 inch with 4 inch crown)

• Lights under cabinets, round pools of light on dimmers

• Electrical outlets under mounted-plugmold- unless appliance is perm plug in, donÂt like dangling cords. Should consider sillite or plugmold for island? How to plug in warmers?

• Huge Spice rack/access important

• Recycling and regular trash in pull out drawer- maybe foot pedal

• Do not want rectangle island- need shape to it with subtle overhang

• Probably will leave toaster and coffee maker out. Would like easy access to kitchen aid and food processor (both heavy) but want them off the counter.

4. Décor & Misc

• Somewhere to put pictures- bulletin/magnetic board in frame?

• New Round kitchen table

• Stone backsplash- must be cleanable! Maybe subway pattern, maybe shimmery glass tile, maybe stone

• New Chandelier or no chandelier?

• New window treatments

• New paint

• Hardware- blackened iron or brushed nickel

5. Architecture

• Remove banisters- maybe build slight edge on side of bay window (bookcase on other side?) so that you donÂt fall off or some sort of new rail

• Add arch to family room entrance, dining room entrance, possibly hall entrance

• Make sink window bigger

• Build stone arch for range hood or look at other options- maybe dark furniture based- want as focal point

• Remove "wall of doors"

• Remove soffit

Here are some other Q&A I read was helpful on GW:

• What are your goals? E.g., more counter space, more storage, seating in the kitchen (island? peninsula? table?), etc.

  • Better appliances, bigger range, more storage, more room for entertaining in kitchen- everyone huddles around our small island.

  • Remove hideous builder look.

• What is your family...

Aisle widths...The NKBA has recommendations of minimum aisles...

6: Work Aisle
The width of a work aisle should be at least 42" for one cook and at least 48" for multiple cooks. Measure between the counter frontage, tall cabinets and/or appliances.

I would aim for 42" for each aisle for an aisle with no seating (but no less than 36" and only if you have no DW or oven opening into it).

8: Traffic Clearance at Seating

In a seating area where no traffic passes behind a seated diner [and not a work aisle or appliances], allow 32" of clearance from the counter/table edge to any wall or other obstruction behind the seating area.
a. If traffic passes behind the seated diner, allow at least 36" to edge past.
b. If traffic passes behind the seated diner, allow at least 44" to walk past.

Since you have appliances behind the island on the seating side (as well as doorways), you should aim for at least 54" b/w the counter edge to the appliance.

Are you planning on getting rid of the door directly behind the island? It looks like a basement door, so I don't think you can w/o moving the stairs.

All that noted, your kitchen isn't deep enough for those aisles, so you need to make some decisions on how functional you want your kitchen vs what you want, regardless of how it functions.

Standard wall runs of cabinets are 25.5" deep...24" cabinet + 1.5" overhang

Seating overhang for counter-height should be a minimum of 15" (and skimping won't help...people will take the same amount of space while seated regardless of overhang depth...they'll just be less comfortable with a too-shallow overhang. A human body can be squeezed only so much...)

[I was thinking about this Wednesday night as I was seated at an island w/12" overhang for a meeting...no one was able to sit close to the island edge, we were all pushed back and had to lean in to get to the surface of the island...it wasn't very comfortable.]

So, if you want an island w/seating in a kitchen, this is what you need for a kitchen depth:

25.5" sink run + 42" aisle + (25.5" on cabinet side of island + 15" seating overhang) + 54" aisle = 162" (13'6")

You have 150" or 12'6"...so 12" short.
(24" sink run cabinets + 39" aisle + + 42" island + 45" aisle = 150") [That 13' measurement includes the bay window)

Now, you can reduce the aisle a little, but not much. Say, make the aisle behind the island 48" to gain 6". However, you're still 6" short. Since the DW is on the aisle b/w the island & sink run, narrowing the aisle 6" isn't really a good idea. Maybe 3", but not 6".

Your only real option is to take the extra 3" to 6" from behind the island. But, as Bmorepanic noted, it will limit what you can do when someone is sitting at the island.

So, what are you doing w/the bay window space? Have you considered expanding the kitchen into that area and using the DR for all meals and the island for snacks?

Dishwasher...I suggest...

The national kitchen and bath association has kinda translated the building code requirements into its planning guidelines. Please notice that every measurement they give is a minimum. They don't give ideals or recommendations - except for the max size of the ol' triangle.

They say that the minimum working aisle(meaning it has cabinets on at least one side) is 42" when basically one person cooks at a time, 48" if two people cook. If you have a walkway that goes by a blank wall or the edge of an island with no cabinets or appliances that open, it'd be 36".

When you have seating, the minimum amount of space for the aisle if its backed by usable counters, pantry or the ref is about 5 feet - two feet for the seated person and 3 feet to use the counters or appliances or pantry. If its backed by a wall, its 44" minimum to be able to walk by the seated person with 48" being more comfortable.

Now people will jump in here and talk about how they are happy with less and I don't doubt them. But, others have posted that they wished they had planned bigger aisles. Life circumstances can change. Personally, I don't like small aisles.

I can suggest looking at the book called "Small Spaces, Beautiful Kitchens " by tara mclellen. And one called "Small Kitchens: Making Every Inch Count " by Robin Murrell. They may be available at your local library- that's where I get all my porn.

Since the island is going to be used for prep and a defining boundary to the work area, and Not seating, it could be made narrower and shorter and still be perfectly functional. I agree that at this size it makes the work aisles too small. Take a foot-15" off in length and six inches or so in width, add that to the work aisles, and you will have space to bend over at the dishwasher and oven door.

So after consideration of the comments here and meetings with 2 KDÂs I have two new tentative designs. And unresolved issues!

Overall, I made the island smaller to increase aisles. The idea is to have cream glazed cabinets with a rustic knotty alder glazed island and "hutch". Here is the drawing of the first design. This one would be using Shiloh cabinets:

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Some mods to/issues with this one:

1. I want the island to have some sort of slight curves on each side so that itÂs not angular rectangular (which the room is) but I am having a hard time finding photos of symmetrical slightly arched granite islands. Am I losing my mind?

2. The corner cabinet is an issue. I had asked for an appliance garage, my DH hates this idea and wants a square angle corner upper with no appliance garage. He has a point in that we both hate our current corner cabinet (diagonal door) which is a dark nightmare of hundreds of jars of spices. But that leaves me without coverage for my heavy mixer, etc. And I cannot find any examples of kitchens where they have done this hard angle on the upper corner (piano hinge I think the KD said?). We are thinking of 13-14 inch uppers depending on if we go with overlays vs. insets and regular lowers. Advice?

3. Speaking of spice, I seem to be being roped into a sort of plain range hood provided by the cabinet maker with a little mantle on it to accommodate my narrow spice pull outs on either top side. I always envisioned an elaborate stone or wood hood so IÂm feeling a little plain jane about this development. IÂd probably do it in the darker wood if I did it with this, but will I regret a curved interesting mantle? Any other options for really great spice access without it? Do people with lower spice pull outs find that reasonable? To me it seems really low for practical use.

4. The hutchÂthis item was also to be dark. I sort of wanted the look of it being stand-alone furniture, hence the different color, but my husband did not like this drawing. He wants the counter area clear so we can set up a bar area for parties. Normally it will be for kids stuff storage, paper/paints, puzzles, games etc and electronic charging station. Will it look dumb to have it a different color if its not somehow connected top and bottom- since I feel like that will make it very evident that its NOT a piece of furniture. I donÂt know what to do on this one. IÂm totally lost.

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Here are some other drawing of the design. I think we decided on sort of chunky legs for the island on the four corners vs. corbels but that isnÂt reflected here.

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The...

put down a dup on another inset option, trying to fix that!

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Darn, did it again, ok- here is once again the inset option I was missing

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bump...should i post these threads seperately? Is this one too overwhelming?