1)Not having a triangle but having zones.
2)Having the fridge/freezer completely out of the whole area.
3) Buying appliances because they met my needs not for their "decorating" potential. ( not really design but REALLY important)
4) Having one step between the cooktop/island .

Wish I had NEVER had a corner pullout whatever cab...I hate that sucker. I wish I had thought even harder than I did for a way to deal with a corner...thank goodness it is my only one . Beware corners....Also the pullout spice thingy is a waste. I keep all my spices in mason jars in the freezer...it is the only way to really keep them perfectly fresh unless you are going to constantly refill .

I will think of more good things as they far out weigh the bad but you only asked for one LOL. c

Going with soapstone to top my working island and countertops was the best choice I made in my kitchen. I can do anything on it - knead dough, roll out pastry, set my steaming pots & hot pizza pans on it. And it just gets better looking for all the wear and use!

I also love having a wide/deep single soapstone sink - so practical for washing greens & vegetables, etc. and big pans can soak unseen...

What I would do differently....probably more research on my stove hood. I'm happy with its efficiency, but they must make one that does the job, but isn't quite as loud.

What I love is what Trailrunner said - Zones! Love them. Even though I'm not finished yet, we have ovens and cooktop working, and already zones make life with three of us cooking lovely!
Lisa

My favorite part of my kitchen was to go with a slightly smaller fridge as the main fridge (36" counter depth), and a set of fridge drawers at my chopping station, which I keep stocked with my produce (top) and drinks (bottom).

It keeps me from running back and forth to the main fridge, and everything is handy: need some carrots, grab 'em and toss the bag back down. Grab the herbs, etc.

Hope this was useful...

--Andy

1. Zones
2. Storage, in some cases like salt, having it in the baking and prep zones
3. Appliances for efficiency not design
4. TWO Dishwashers but we're a big family who entertain a lot.
5. PLANNING. Cannot stress this enough. Take inventory of what you will want to have in your kitchen and plan where it will all go when you are done. There shouldn't be any surprises.
6. PLANNING. When you have a working layout, label where you will be storing everything from pantry staples, to pots and pans and then walk through a couple of your favorite recipes and see if it still works. Tweak as necessary.
7.PLANNING. When you are walking through all those recipes, think about small appliances. Where will they be stored? What about electrical outlets? If you're using plugmold, what will be "permanently" plugged in? You may want to consider a few strategic outlets to hide those dangling cords.

Honestly, I don't think you can overplan a kitchen.

Make conscious decisions based on an informed basis means that even where you make choices that aren't optimal, they have been done with thought. Ours was choosing form over fnction in locating the DW/prep sink. We didn't want the sink visible from the front door.

Right now, I'm tentatively planning on putting two small "island tables" (2'x4', table height) in the kitchen because I prefer to do some tasks sitting down. I'll make the tables as low as possible and still get my legs under them for proper maneuvering height, though. Making Asian dumplings is one thing--the table can be quite high for that. Doing anything requiring chopping or kneading is another! It'll also be a place where my kids can do their homeschooling while I'm in the kitchen.

I think I'm going with an open spice rack but with opaque containers--recessed into one side of the stove hood "mantel" next to me cooking prep station. In the other (by baking prep), I'll have baking basics in pretty jars.

I'm also planning on having a small in-kitchen pantry for most of my cooking items.

In the 10" pullouts by the stove, I am planning on keeping vinegars, oils, cooking spirits, and non-refrigerated sauces.

I'm looking at BlueStar for a range and an all-fridge and all-freezer combo--cheaper ones, like Frigidaire. I've got two 30-inch apron-front sinks planned, too, and Bosch dishwashers.

I think I'm going to do a mixture of soapstone, 16" porcelain tile, and butcher block for the kitchen counters.

Right now, I'd like to have 30" deep cabinets along one wall, with flip-top appliance garages along the back. The outlets would be of the ordinary type. The wall above is stone, so I'd leave that alone as much as possible, as it's gorgeous, but I'd put a row of transferware serving dishes and platters on top of the appliance garages.

I have a feeling I'm going to be building all the cabinets myself, so odd sizes aren't an issue....

Andy, can I ask for more about this? I am planning exactly the same thing, and would be very interested in knowing which drawers you used, if you think they are too big/small, and any other tips you might have? Thanks.

You said -

'' My favorite part of my kitchen was to go with a slightly smaller fridge as the main fridge (36" counter depth), and a set of fridge drawers at my chopping station, which I keep stocked with my produce (top) and drinks (bottom).
It keeps me from running back and forth to the main fridge, and everything is handy: need some carrots, grab 'em and toss the bag back down. Grab the herbs, etc.

Hope this was useful...

--Andy ''

When we did our remodel the top things I loved about my kitchen:

1) soapstone countertops. You could set flaming logs on top and them and it would not be a worry.

2) 2 single basin apron front sinks. One 40" soapstone (custome/loved it) and one 20" fireclay for dish washing.

3) function over form. While I wanted everything to look good, the most important thing was that it met my needs.

4) Jotul white enamel gas stove. Although I was into functionality overall, I splurged here and loved it. It was the only heat source for the kitchen and it looked great.

What I am going to do different next time around (we moved about 1.5 years after doing the remodel :(

1) plugmold. I had enough outlets in the old remodeled kitch, but not enough where I needed them. I didn't have outlets above the cab where I stored food processor/blender and that was a mistake. i wanted to keep the marble backsplash looking pretty. Should have gone with plugmold.

2) bigger sink. The 40" x 24" x 10" sink was, for some odd reason, not big enough for me. I just love sinks. Next time I am going with a 60" x 24" x 10" (one 40" basin and one 20" basin). This way I can wash a bushel of strawberries and soak my dinner pots at the same time.

3) a second range. I have a Kenmore Elite range purchased back in 2004. It works great, although there are one or two things about it I don't like. But instead of ditching it and shelling out thousands more for a fancy range, I am just adding another one to stand next to it. I know this will look silly but I will have ten burners and two ovens for just $2000 more bucks so I am willing to be laughed at.

4) drawers. Lots of drawers next time around.

5) garbage disposal on big sink and on dish sink.

6) plumbing towards the back of the cab.

7) I also think I will have the counter tops come out a quarter inch more on the overhang b/c I felt stuff landed on my pulls (flour, gunk, etc) too easily.

Great appliances sufficient for feeding 2 or 50.

A deep counter for baking bread and making fiddly things (island).

Tightening up my triangle because even with zones, being able to move easily from stove to fridge, fridge to sink, sink to stove, are very important to the way I cook.

Ability to have 1-4 (or even 6) cooks with their own stations and plenty of room for them.

Storage, storage, everywhere storage.

Different kinds of storage for different things (pull outs, horizontal and vertical, drawers, shallow cupboards, extra deep drawers, pegboard).

Something other than a lazy susan in the corners. (Corner drawers on the lowers, Arlosmom in true blinds in the upper corner and laundry by the sink).

Table height seating for the old folks.

Cooking smells away from interior walls, with great ventillation. (Mostly successful on that one).

Not finished. The one thing I should have thought about more is a place for Grandma's kitchen stool. It's going to just hang out like before, but it might have liked a home.

1. I like triangles! I kept my old layout in my 10' x 15' kitchen, because it worked, right down to the postage-stamp sized island which several KDs insisted I didn't have room for.

2. Upgraded performance appliances - a DCS 36" AG 6 burner range, and a Miele DW, both of which replaced sub-standard appliances. My very expensive Electrolux fridge is just OK, but DH picked it, not I.

3. Improved prep and storage. Got all the small appliances (including microwave) off the countertop between the sink and the range. Lots more storage than I used to have by having the uppers extend to the 8'ceiling, hanging a pot rack over the island, and using as many drawers and pullouts in the lower cabs as I could.

4. Chose materials and colours that pleased me, regardless of professional, family, and neighbourly advice. Someone asked my why I installed blue cabinetry because no one else is doing that nowadays. Is it a rule somewhere that I have to do what everyone else is doing???? I chose the perfect quartz counters to match my cabs, tile floors and backsplash that coordinated with cabs and counters, and wall colour that worked with everything. I love the new bay window over my sink with lots of space for potted herbs, houseplants, and seedling trays in late winter/early spring.

5. I'm not totally happy with my ventillation system, but I can work with it. It is as powerful as I could afford, and is quiet enough, but I wish my hood extended further over my front burners. I have to do all smoky greasy cooking on the back burners. My local appliance dealers are quite purposely ignorant regarding ventillation, so they don't have to admit that installation to current codes will cost more than the range + hood combined.

From a functional standpoint, I would not change a thing about my set-up. I can stand behind my island and have everything in reach. I cook by myself 95 percent of the time, so I set up a cooking zone for me, and a dish cleaning/storage zone. I did not want to duplicate equipment in different prep zones. If a kid is helping me, they can work at the end of the island. Also, I have a long enough island and a wide enough aisle between the island and the range to accommodate two cooks. My favorite aspects of my prep space are:
1) A large prep sink (21x16)-- large enough to rinse a turkey, or to contain a pan that is being sprayed with oil.
2) Trash and recycling pullouts under my prep sink-- helps me keep my work space clean
3) My Ikea drawers, with their nifty dividers to keep my stuff organized. I also love my Ikea tall pullout, that holds the ingredients I most commonly use in prepping. No to-ing and fro-ing from the pantry.
4) Bluestar range, for power and ease of cleaning.

I'm also really glad I put a 24" wide, apartment-sized fridge out of my cooking zone. It holds the kids' drinks, yogurts, fruit, ice cream, etc., so I do not have kids in my way while I cook. I have a Samsung FD in my prep zone.

Best choice? Appliances that fit my style of cooking.

Worst choice? I wish I could have moved the mw from above
my range to a separate wall. I never use it. It is teen
magnet and they are always in my way. : ) I still love them.

I may still move this to another wall but I have to gently
work on DH. Get him to let me hire someone.

johnliu,
I have the 27" subzero (TC27?) all fridge drawers, and they are located directly under where my cutting board is.

They are perfect size, each drawer has 2 compartments so the top left is fresh produce, the top right is breads and cheeses and various charcuterie.

Bottom left is beer, bottom right is bottled water and/or cans of soda.

Sometimes when I am in a veggie mood there isn't enough room for all the produce so it "overflows" into the cheese section :)

It so convenient to have all my produce at my fingertips when prepping a meal -- I rarely hit the main fridge when cooking other than to get the main protein.

Hope this helps, if you want I can post a few pics. Alternatively, I have some videos of me cooking on my blog. There you can see me at my cutting station (but you can't see the fridge itself as I am standing in front of it) and can see the nice tight work triangle (it all fits into camera angle).

--Andy

PS (Hope this is an appropriate use of linking to my blog)

Here is a link that might be useful: That Jew Can Cook (my blog)

(andy...i personally think you should always link ;)

Andy--

Liked the blog. But I have to say, kale smells of poo to me. Seriously. :-0

I see alot of people happy with soapstone... I dont see anyone on serious cooks saying they love their marble counters.. will I seriously regret it??

Whoaaaa Wait a minute.

You need to post this in Italy to get the truth about
cooking on Marble counters. In most Italian and Greek
(yes many french kitchens) you can surely find cooks who
LOVE their marble. They roll pasta, make pie crusts, spill
olive oil, crush tomatos, and create amazing dishes
of delight on their marble. Marble is the King in most
italian kitchens. And the marble in these kitchens is old,
used from grandma to grandson for years and years.
Why Julius Caesar himself had marble in his kitchen.

Marble is a great stone for cooks. Sure it won't always
be pristine and white but it is a super stone for a cook
who cares about cooking more than flashy whiteness.

Sorry to sound so defensive, I am a huge fan of marble.
Please forgive me. : )
~boxerpups

Here is a link that might be useful: White Marble for cooks???? Apt therapy site

While I have never considered using marble for all my countertops, I can't even imagine redoing my kitchen and NOT having marble somewhere. Though this is still subject to change, my current plan is to have a marble top cut for my buffet. It is 24" x 60". It will be used for rolling dough and stuff like that, but not in the "general use" area of the kitchen. It is right near my big baking island, so I can do all my mixing, chopping and assorted stuff, and then only move to the marble when I feel the need.

I have not decided for sure what type of countertops I'll have everywhere else. I think I'm going to have plywood for several montsh before I'm able to make up my mind LOL!!

My kitchen is still under construction, but I love that my baking supplies are all within easy reach of my big island. I have a lazy susan (not a corner) and I can reach down, give it a turn and grab sugar, then give it a turn for the oil, or a bit more for the flours. I purchase most of those things in large quantites and store them in my extra freezer in the basement, and keep plastic containers in the kitchen - an assortment of both square and round to fit the space.

I am also so looking forward to my double wall oven. There have been so many times I've had to wait for the apple pie to get done before I could start on the lemon meriange(sp?) - or get a hankering for fresh biscuits while a batch of Boston Baked Beans is cooking (they take hours). And especially to get the oven good and hot without taking the bread out of the warm oven it has been rising in.

Cathy

I agree with Trailrunner, the first and foremost thing is:
1) Plan, Plan and Plan! Think about where your Zones will be and what you need to store in that zone.
2) Buy for your needs, not for what's necessarily hot at the moment.
3) Read this forum thoroughly. Doing so saved me so much time, money and stress! I can't say enough good things about the value of GW's Kitchens Forum
4) Looking back on my own kitchen reno, my very favorite, most useful by far design consideration was designing my main prep zone. I can stand at my counter and prep while I talk with family or guests in our family room . . . or watch TV. The drawer MW is to my left with a deep drawer under it that holds all my MW cookware, paper plates and paper plate holders. In front of me are the 4 main prep drawers that I designed to hold all my prep utensils, prep bowls in various sizes, measuring cups and spoons, mezzaluna, strainers, etc. One shallow drawer holds all my ziploc bags, plastic wrap, foil and waxed paper. Next to my prep drawer stack is my supersusan that holds all my small everyday appliances and my nested mixing bowls. As the counter makes it's angle, I have my pull-out double trash cans. Above them is my knife drawer.
I worked hard and PLANNED a long time to get this work zone right for me and it so is! I wouldn't change a thing. I did the same with all my work zones, but this main one is my pride and joy.
Lynn

What Trailrunner said. Plus, I particularly love having a prep sink, and I really like my stainless section of counters.

I wish I had the long side of the island facing the stove...but not sure whether it is a real wish, because I know it would have affected the whole layout, which works quite well for our cooking and baking family to share.

Since we do cook and bake a lot, I kind of wish I had more streamlined cabinetry for easier cleaning...more function over appearance in that particular choice. I'd go for more of an austere, substantive look, while keeping warmth, so someday "Grandma's kitchen" would still be a welcoming place that brings up thoughts of coziness, warmth, and togetherness...Because that's definitely part of the kitchen's function, too.
:-)

Andy - I'm with you. We put in the drawer fridges right under the ain prep area and I love it! WHile I don't have my produce there yet.....I do have all the kiddie snacks and yes, they are in my way but they also are not climbing into the main fridge and falling off a chair. Soon I will replace Minigo cheese with my produce and al will be well.

Agard - I LOVe LOVe LOVE my Calacutta marble. I went against what everyone I knew told me and installed it everywhere...island, perimeter counters and desk area. Yes it has etched (much quicker thanI thought) but I still love it. Yes the kitchen is noticeably cooler but who caers? I put on a sweater or fire up the 6 burner gas rangetop and VIOLA, I'm warm again. If you are a marble lover, youwill not regret it. I will say however that I didn't know much about soapstone beforehand and I love that look too. Might be something I consider if there is ever another remodel inmy future.

I too went with the best appliances I could afford and didn't bother iwth matchy. Viking rangetop and double ovens..very happy with performace. Kitchenaid french door freezer bottom firdge and GE double drawer fridges. Panasonic microwave under the island.

Love the hardwood as iti s so much more comfy on the feet and knees adn clean up is easy. In fact, I love the wya it's already getting worn in looking. 2 little boys with too many dinky cars will do that to wood floors.

Regrets - there will always be some.
We didn't plan enough. The desk area is at counter height which was a big mistake. I cna't sit somfortabley with a chari or a stool due to the drawers but oh well! I love the fridge drawers but had to sacrifice drawers in the island so the only storage there is under the prep sink.

WE opted to go wtih a counter height window so the counter just drifts in to the window instead of a bay / garden which is what I wanted. I wish I had gone with what I wanted 'cause I still don't really have room for my herbs to grow in teh winter.

Wonderful post with so many great ideas that have worked for everyone. Planning seems to be the one thing that noone ever regrets doing too much of.

30" deep baking counter , soapstone on that counter. Wide shallow single soapstone sink. Movable island. Pullouts under cooktop not doors or closed drawers. Hanging utensil rack behind cooktop. GREAT ventilation !!! can't say enough about that !! Double ovens that do everything. Separate all fridge/all freezer so I can put full size baking sheets in with breads/bagels that proofing. They are aslo shallower so things never get lost in the back. Marble on my coffee island...wish I had more marble , I love the look , mine is salvage so I don't have to worry about the upkeep as it was already had LOTS of patina when I got it :) Can't think of anything else at the moment but will keep looking back as this is a great thread. c

Be careful not to plan too long and get into analysis paralysis. I have had a plywood backsplash behind my stove for 2+ years because I can't decide what I want.

Probably anything would be better than what I have, even if I change it a few years down the road :)

Thanks,
--Andy

PS: reyesuela, with a little garlic and some kind of pig product the kale stops smelling like poo.

Boxerpups..I love all your words of wisdom and photos on all threads!!! WOULD you Hone or NO??? I was set on honing until I read this week something from HGTV suggesting that you really should not..

Awesome helpful thread in many ways!

Depends on the look you wnat in terms of honeing or not. It will help somewhat as it will already look a bit more dull than polished. Be advised that unlike granite which gets 'polishe' to bring out the natural shine, marble has stuff appllied to it to bring out the shine. So if it isn't honed, more stuff on it and therefore, more likely to etches / scratches to show.
It's a personal preferance. I went with honed.

zone zone and then zone! Zones can make a small modest kitchen function "larger".

Thanks for the link Boxerpups. I plan to get marble so that was great reinforcement. I have come to learn that if you want photos, Boxerpups is the one for the job!

Like Guppy said, the honed will hide a lot more. I have a big sample of polished calcutta marble and I sanded half of it to hone it. After much abuse, the honed side hides the flaws so much better. Any scratch really stands out on the shiny side. The stone people told me if you soak any stain in bleach for 10 minutes, it comes out. So far that has worked for me. But, it doesn't get etch marks out.

This is such a great thread as we are having first KD meeting today after having roughly planned out kitchen with architect.

RE marble - I read a lot of posts about the pros and cons, but I fell in love with imperial Danby! I have a friend with 4 kids, big cook and she has marble all over. She says she has it sanded/hones??? once per year or so and it looks good as new. I think as boxerpups said, it's all over Europe; they are just not as fussy about the look of natural wear and tear over time. I am only sad that I am only doing island in marble and not whole perimeter too (cost decision.)

CTReno, I also have a huge crush on Imperial Danby! I saw it at Ann Sacks in Greenwich (ooh chi-chi) and they call it Selene there. The salesman described it as having a watercolor quality to the veining and that's what I love about it--so soft and ethereal.

Most useful:
Pullout for trash and recycle, in the island across from the sink and DW
Drawers instead of pullouts for all lower cabinets - LOVE having my pots and pans in drawers.
Microwave drawer
Warming drawer
(I guess I'm on a drawer thing so I'll change it up and say)...
Raised the counter height to 39". SO much better for our tall family (plus I get more space in my lower cabs.)

Wish I'd done differently:
That's tough because everything is quite functional. Although I would like to change: We have a French door frig, which I love, but it would be better if the bottom frig drawer (not the freezer, the lowest drawer in the frig part) were split instead of one wide drawer. Then I wouldn't have to open both doors to pull out the drawer.

FYI -- here is a picture of the fridge drawers

Directly above it is my cutting board.

-- Andy

Here is a link that might be useful: That Jew Can Cook (my blog)