Oh, recessed lights, that was a nightmarish decision. We ended up picking Halo, but don't. There is nothing wrong with them, mind you, but I wanted Halo with the Alzak Wheat Haze trim. Juno makes that trim. The Alzak Wheat trim kit is what makes them "disappear" into the ceiling.

Go to the lighting store (not Lowe's or HD) and look at them.

So I would suggest Juno, with the Alzak wheat haze trim.

My 2 cents.

My only requirement is that they are dimmable. So... LED, halogen, incandescant? I just don't know and don't really care as long as I can dim them. I don't really even know if I should be looking at a light that throws a warmer color or cooler color and what difference that all really makes. Guess you can say I'm lighting illiterate.

I would go 5" though. I got the 4" and if I had the 5" I could use 75 watt halogens instead of 50 watt. The 4" are really too small.

OK... so Juno or Halo... 4" or 5"... and I have to buy the trim separate. How do I know what kind of bulbs they take? Which bulbs are dimmable? Once I know what to get; I'll price shop it online and probably order my chandy, pendants, and ceiling fan to get the best price. Oh.. and I know I need a housing for a remodel and IC (can put next to insulation... right?)

Yes, remodel IC. Our 6" Junos take incandescent, CFL, or halogen bulbs. It's the bulb type that has to be dimmable, I think. Not all CFLs are.

I looked at 4" and 5" and when I found out how much more expensive the cans and the trims were (Like 2 or 3 times as much for some of the parts), stuck with 6".

An architect friend of ours recommended Juno strongly over Halo. Can't remember why, but he supervises all of his custom home projects, so I respected his opinion. Doesn't mean you have to, though. ;-)

Out of curiosity, are recessed can brands distinct enough that it would be easy to tell visually which brand one is? I would heartily recommend our 4" cans, but honestly have no clue who makes them (PO put them in). Next time I have the big ladder out (or when a light bulb finally burns out---impressively we've not needed to replace one in three years!) I'll have to see if they say somewhere inside, but just wondered if there were an easy way to guess short of that....

rhome... if it worked for you, it'll definitely work for me. I haven't priced yet but didnt' realize there was a price difference. You know the size of my kitchen as well as anyone; so you think the 6" won't be too big?

art... from my reading both Juno and Halo get recommended. I think it has to do with body construction. I'm gonna focus on Juno cause that's the name that's winning thus far and I just want a direction so I can be done with this part.

Ha, so I looked up recessed cans on a lighting website to see if I could tell. Ours *might* be Juno 4" flush cans with a mix of gimbal ring and downlight trims, based on the styles and available finishes.

BUT---I did learn that apparently five of ours tilt! (We have two different styles and always figured it was because they cast light differently---but turns out if I climbed up there, I could apparently tilt some of them.) Not sure we'll ever need to tilt them, but hey. Who knew. ;)

I have the same dilemma. 8 ft insulated (foam) ceiling.

Remodel or new construction? Juno or Halo? wheat or halo color? 4 or 5 inch? Probaby 4.

But how do I space the durn things if I pick 4 inch?

Argh!!!!!!

Really guys. I'm glad I didn't see this thread a week ago. I just got what the electrician ordered for me. Low cost, incandescent. They dim. I mentioned stainless trim, he showed me prices, i said go with white. I only asked for floods as opposed to spots as I can't see well in spotlights.
Whew! Another bullet dodged by ignorance!
Lisa

My Halo lights are 5". They only take a max of 50 watt bulb. It says it right inside the lighting housing what type of bulb you can use. Remember to get short neck bulbs, this way they are way up there and you don't see the bulbs.

So, I would just check with Juno (yes, I'm recommending them again even though I did NOT get them) and see if different size cans handle different different wattage bulbs.

Don't forget, Juno has the Alzak Wheat Haze, not Halo.

Mine are on dimmers, and it is great. So make sure to get ones that can be dimmed.

Here is the contact information from Juno. I wonder if you call them if they can walk you through it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Juno

@honeysuckle, ours are in our living room (which I think is 20' x 14' or so?) so that's another story altogether---but we have six with 3-4 feet between them on average. This works well for general lighting (although we joke that the zigzag pattern they're in must have been custom for the PO's furniture---which might actually be true!) In a kitchen I might put them closer together since in the LR we mostly use them for general lighting rather than task lighting. The really big plus for the kitchen, though, is that most of the "furniture" is pretty permanent, so it's easier to figure out how to illuminate it.

Does the wheat haze trim look bronzey in color? Most of my finishes are going to be satin nickel/brushed nickel. Would that clash? should I get a brushed trim to match, white, or go with the wheat haze?

Flood? Spot? (deer in headlight stare)

Flood lights shine in a wider circle and flood the area with lots of light. Spot lights are a smaller circle more directed at a spot!
Lisa

honeysuckle... when all else fails and you are totally confused; eat a handful of almond M&M's. It cures all ailments. That's what I did and now I have total clarity!!

I said it in an earlier post and I'm saying it again: I miss the days of going to the store and buying a big rectangle and hanging it on the kitchen ceiling...kitchen lighting done! those really were the good old days :)

We had the 6" cans in our last house (75 watt halogen floods on a dimmer...hardly ever dimmed), which had 7'8" ceilings. I thought they were fine. We only used a 4" over the sink...It was in kind of a soffit that made it lower, and since it was only a foot deep and 3 ft wide, a 6" would have looked huge. I think 4" would be small for a room unless you're using quite a few, but that's probably based on what I've gotten used to. I prefer bigger and fewer for simplicity and a cleaner look.

Our architect friend actually favored 5" for our new house, but I wasn't up to spending 3 times the amount for each one. (I was getting contractor pricing from Seattle Lighting.) But he had a lot of suggestions I wasn't prepared to pay for! ;)

The price for the 5" and 6" Juno IC remodel housings are the same. I haven't figured out the difference in the trim prices yet. It's the trim that's more costly. Though you know me and my research/shopping gene... I'm checking ebay as we speak.

I need input on what color inside to get on the trim. The wheat haze suggested looks real pretty but I'm not sure if it's right for my kitchen.

This recessed lighting is confuddling. It's almost like you need a recipe: add one bulb to one baffle and one trim and one housing and screw it in, attach the wiring and the switch and the dimmer . . . , place 4 feet apart for 4 inchers, 6 apart for 6 inchers, but don't put them in an arrangement that looks like a chessboard.

And I thought the pull decision was bad.

I've got the brand down and understand the remodel IC thing but now I'm confused over the line voltage and low voltage thing. At least I've narrowed down the questions to ask the electrician.

Well, you've progressed past what I can help with. I got the $4 white trim rings that help flush them out and blend with the ceiling, and called it good!

I too stuck with the 6" cans - in fact, I re-used all our old cans and added more using the cheapest ones from Home Depot.

But I used Juno trims - that was my splurge. To save money again, I chose the clear Alzak instead of the wheat haze. Plus the clear alzak reflects more light into the room than any others.

The people at Seattle Lighting told me that the standard cans (the 6" high ones) could not accommodate a 75 watt bulb. I would have to buy the cans that were 7.5" high - and Juno makes them - if I wanted a 75 watt. The difference in price was $5.33 per can (Utilitech) verses over $25 per can (Juno).

I called Crescent Lighting and the person there said they hadn't heard of 75 watts blowing cans, but looked it up, and then said, "wow, sure enough". The next time I was at Lowe's to buy more cans I hunted down an electrician who worked in the lighting dept and asked him, "I am buying these cans. [the 6" high ones] Can I put a 75 watt bulb in here?" He said no, it would get too hot and flip the can off until it cools in about 20 minutes. He said I could use a 65 watt as long as it was long neck, but then the bulb is flush with the ceiling and defeats the purpose of canned lighting.

So I planned for all 50 watts - 10 cans and 3 pendants. My lighting is installed and it's fabulous.

Thank you all for your help. I'm leaning toward the 5" Juno and if it helps anyone else I learned that the low voltage will allow you many more choices in bulbs as opposed to line voltage which just allows a flood or spot light. So low voltage it'll be. Now I just have to make a trim decision. I'm leaning toward the clear or white since I'll have SS and nickel trims everywhere. If anyone has pics of how a different inside (like the wheat haze) looks different; please post. I don't really know it might make the room look different. We dont' typically look up in a room so it might cast the light different that I'm not aware of.

GW was a huge help to me when we upgraded lighting in our Master Bath a while back. We went with the Juno Alzac Wheat.

I bookmarked this link when we were remodeling. GW search seems messed up and this is the only way I can get to the thread. Scroll down on the page and you'll see before and after photos of stock cans vs the Alzac in the same kitchen. It's very impressive and eliminates the "Polka Dot" effect up on the ceiling.

We were amazed at the difference on the two that we replaced over our MB tub... and the color isn't noticeable...

Here is a link that might be useful: scroll down for photos of before after with Alzac trim

gbsim... that was the with the wheat haze Alzac trim (interior) and white rim? Thanks so much for posting that... so helpful!

(munch munch munch...) [sound of eating almond m&ms furiously]

So...do I need spots or floods for general kitchen lighting?

(munch, munch..)

And, do I need remodel or new construction cans with foam insulation?

(munch, munch..)

Is it 4 ft apart for 4 inch low voltage with MR16 bulbs?

(munch, munch..)
Wheat or clear Alzak?

Ooooh, boy. I thought we were done. Yesterday the electricians installed what the GC chose. I believe they're 6 inch Halo cans. I just looked gbsim's link and love the look with the Alzac trim. I have no M&M's in the house, so I am a bit fuzzy. :-)
Can I put the Alzac trim on my Halo lights?

@honeysucklevine--regarding the spot vs flood--I would like to add even more to your confusion--you can choose different bulbs for different areas--ie, if you are trying to accent a wall with art on it, you might want to go one way, but if you are trying to get the light to aim directly down on the counter, you need to go another way. You can use the same housing though for both.

And I have to say it again, I unfortunately did NOT get them, but Wheat Haze is the bomb--you see no light source, no polka dots when they are on, just the area you are lighting is lit up. And remember the Wheat Haze is only from JUNO. I think Halo has Alzak trim, but it's not the same.

Ya'll need to go to a good lighting store that has all this stuff on display, see it in real life and ask real lighting people for advice.

Have you guys been to the lighting forum? Oh, they are very "in the know" and they will share all sorts of advice.

I remember the lighting decision--it was so hard. And in the end we ended up with what we didn't want! Can I have an m&m?

I think Alzak is only Juno. If there is a cheaper recessed can that will take a Juno trim, then please tell us!

(Was at lighting store ysterday and still have these questions.)

From my exhaustive hunt for the lights I do not think you can put Juno's wheat haze in Halo lights. If you could--I would have them!

Don't get me wrong--there is nothing wrong with my Halo lights. I just love the look of the Juno with Wheat Haze trim much more. We just didn't know that the housing is what drove the trim choice.

Here are my Halo with white trim, lights on:

{{!gwi}}

Only picture I have with the lights off (sorry it's crooked):

{{gwi:1561896}}

>>I think Alzak is only Juno. If there is a cheaper recessed can that will take a Juno trim, then please tell us! Mine are in and working fine - I have a Halo can/Juno trim mix. In my ceiling I have 3 existing cans I re-used from our renovation (free), 3 Halo cans (a little over $6 each), and 4 Utilitech cans ($5.33 each). Juno's cans start at somewhere around $24 each.

We have Juno clear alzak trims in them - I put them up in a few of the cans just to be sure and they are fine - and the guy at Seattle Lighting knew my plan to put these Juno trims into Halo cans and he said it wouldn't be an issue.

So they are workable, but I think the big key might be ONLY in the configuration I have. 6" trims in a 6" can.

Next time... if I have any questions, I'm going to directly call the customer service department of the manufacturer like I just did. Juno customer service Tech department ROCKS! They answered every detail of every question in a manner I can understand and even told me the exact model number(s) I need to order so I don't have to search any further. Now I"m going to firm up the rest of my lighting picks and order everything at once to try and work the best price possible. Thanks all!!

And Oh... it's gonna be the 5" line voltage IC for remodels with the trim white and wheat haze interior. It can take halogens or incandescants and are dimmable. He even recommended the bulbs to get. Woo-Hoo! Another learning experience and another decision made.

H A L L E L U I A !!!!

So happy to hear the good, no, great news!!!!

This thread was so useful - just in time for my own can lighting decision. Thanks, remodelfla and all you wise GWers!

BTW, your kitchen is gorgeous, beekeeperswife!

remodelfla - whew! don't you just love when you can check something off your worry list!

Weird. Lighting store told me I can't put Juno trims on Halo.

My sheetrock was put up today so I was able to take photos of Halo cans(and other generics - I have 3 cheap brands of cans in my kitchen) WITH JUNO TRIM :-):

I posted this in another related thread, but I thought it would be helpful here too.

Close up. You can see where the springs hook into. It's really easy - I Had it clipped in in about 10 seconds:

Here it is in the ceiling. You can see it sits perfectly flush.

Here is my wholeceilng. I have no trims in at all except one - it's the one furthest back on the left and THE LIGHT IS ON. Compare that to the other 2 lights that are on without trims - the glowing orbs. That is what white baffles look like installed and on. I bought the white baffles first and returned them in favor of the clear alzak because the light slips off the reflective surface so easily that none of it retained in the can itself. (The blue ones you see are for pendants).

remodelfla-quick questions:

DH and I went to lighting store and saw the Juno with the alzak wheat haze/white trim cans but their price was way higher than laner.com-almost $38 higher each for the housing plus the trim.
Did you end up ordering yours from laner??

I didn't yet but laner has the best overall price I've found thus far so I do plan on ordering from them.

Remodelfla, I agree with you about Juno customer service. I have Juno Trac12 undercabinet xenon lights, and I was overwhelmed with how to order them. I called Juno's customer service line, and they talked me through it, and clarified everything. Why can't all companies be like that?

Can you explain why you chose Wheat Haze Alzak over the Clear Alzak? I hear people like one or the other, and both Alzaks seem wonderful (great pics from Needsometips08 above), but I am not sure why one would pick one or the other. Did Juno customer service help you in the decision between Wheat Haze and Clear?

The reason I choose it is based on pics I've seen and the tech guy over at Juno said it really casts a nice light.

I'll chime in if I may, even though the question wasn't addressed to me.

The lighting people told me clear and wheat were both equally fabulous options. They both cast great light. They said the wheat casts *almost* as much light as the clear. But the wheat is just a little softer in terms of coloring. For instance I have lots of soft, warm colors in my kitchen - creams and browns and earth tones and they recommended wheat for those colors.

But she also made the point that you will look at your lights the first couple days your new kitchen is in and then after that you won't look at them again. She asked how many times I go over to people's houses and look at the ceiling.

Considering the clear was cheaper, I chose to just go with the clear since we already spent a fortune and are overbudget.

I think both are equally good choices, it's just personal preference.

remodelfla-thanks for the timely posting on this topic as lighting was next on our list. I intend to call Juno tech myself just to make sure I'm ordering the correct housings and trims.

needsometips08-thanks for the info-my kitchen has lots of earthy colors so I guess the wheat will be a good choice.

Today, when we were at the lighting store and actually got to see all the different Juno cans we definitely decided on the wheat. That interior color is a very soft, wheat like/pale gold color-it's really pretty. Also it was nice to see the 5" and the 6" mounted up next to each other. For us, it's the 5" even though it is a bit more expensive. What we can't get over is the HUGE price difference between ordering online or with the lighting store. If we order from laner.com we will save $300+ over the price quoted to us from the lighting store. That's a BIG difference. I would have liked to have been able to give the local company my business but not for that much of a price difference.

This forum provides so much helpful info. I feel less stressed out!

The title of this post summed up exactly what I'm starting to go through, so just wanted to add my thanks to those who contributed... I've found some Juno distributers in town and will be going to check them out tomorrow!

Hi All, I realize this is an older thread, but very relevant to my current situation and hoping y'all can give me some advice.

I had recessed cans installed in my kitchen, living room and hall. I had seen a demonstration of the juno alzak lights at a lighting store, but understood at the time that you had to get ALL Juno ... housing and trim ... and felt the cost was out of my budget.

Sooo... I went with some standard recessed can and had planned to use the Ecosmart ones (which btw came highly recommended on the lighting forum).

Now that the Esosmarts are in, I think they are so glaring and so yellow!

So my question is ... do you think I can keep the existing cans and get the Juno Alzak trim? Can I salvage any of this? I can't afford to replace the housing ... out of budget and my contractor would kill me!

I have 4" cans (unsure of the brand - some may be Halo, but not sure all are), line voltage, IC (I believe, since this is a remodel). What else do I need to know? Will this work? What bulbs would I use? 50w?

Any help is soo appreciated! Thanks!!!!