oh, I forgot to add, I'm not sure I want the peninsula on the end. I don't know if it will make the family room area too confined...

just bumping this up a bit. I'm looking up all the distances recommended on the NKBA website. The more I look at the layout the more I see I don't seem to have a lot of choice where the fridge can go. The sink is currently in the same spot as the layout, but I probably need to move it to the left so I can have space on the other side of the dishwasher for cabinet openings. Or, would I be better off putting the dishwasher in island directly behind the sink?

Just from a quick look, I think your stove top might be a little too close to some of those seats. It might be a safety concern. Is your heart set on the island for the cook top location?

I agree the island is too narrow for both seating and the cooktop. There is probably only enough overhang for seating at the very bottom seating location, and with the taper, there will be no knee space at the upper end. Combined with the cooktop the only two seats that are far enough away from the cooktop don't have any leg room.

Its one of those things you can draw, but won't work in real life. (Unless there is no cabinetry under most of the island...then you have leg room.)

I think the sink and fridge are awful far apart. Thats a giant run of cabinet between the fridge and sink. I might want a prep sink (and I don't often see the need for one:) Or what about getting the cooktop on the perimeter and using the island only for seating?

"... the island will not have a cooktop or sink..."

I think that's a wise decision...at least for the cleanup sink. However, I agree w/Palimpsest that your kitchen will definitely benefit from a prep sink on the refrigerator end of the island.

Are you planning to put the cooktop on the deeper wall, b/w the current sink & refrigerator locations? Where do you plan to put your oven(s)? MW?

I would also keep the DW out of the island.

Seating...You will need at least 24" per seat in island width, so 8' means 4 seats. Additionally, you should have a 15" overhang for those seats. The aisle behind the seats should be 48" at the narrowest point since it will be a major thoroughfare through the kitchen and will connect the FR with the Playroom, etc.

I kind of like the peninsula b/c I think it offers some separation b/w the kitchen & FR without closing either one off. In the corner, I would put a 27" cabinet that faces the FR...it's a better use of space than a corner susan (and especially a blind corner).

If the outside wall didn't indent, it would be a lot easier to plan the kitchen. Is the indent integral to the house's appearance?

Sorry, I missed the part about not having the sink or the cooktop, I think I interpreted it as one or the other. So, I spent a lot of time analyzing something that won't be there.

With the way the room narrows at one end, due to the outside wall of the house and the stairs, you don't have clearance for a long island that doesn't taper. You may be able to get a shorter, squarer, island toward the current fridge end if you shortened the study desk and did not have the pantry run of cabinets.

Does the back of the house *have to indent for some reason? It does cause some problems inside. I know there was a house on here last fall that needed these indents to meet certain zoning requirements...

Thanks for the feedback so far! In the original space the indent of the wall is actually where 2 rooms separate, we are taking down a wall to make the kitchen bigger. We unfortunately can't do anything with the indent... Well, we could if we had the $$$ :-)
Maybe we will put the eating seats at the peninsula and have space for only a few seats at the island. I have a dream of a nice big island! We have 2 girls and they love being up at our current small island with their "projects". So, now we are always having to move their papers to make room for dinner. It would be nice to have a separate space.
Do I have enough room for wall ovens and a cooktop? I'm not opposed to a range. I have no idea where the microwave can go. We do use it a lot for reheating, but not cooking.

"I kind of like the peninsula b/c I think it offers some separation b/w the kitchen & FR without closing either one off. In the corner, I would put a 27" cabinet that faces the FR...it's a better use of space than a corner susan (and especially a blind corner)." Thanks Buehl, that is a great idea! Then it would matter about the dishwasher being close to the cabinets over there...

Two questions: Can the window closest to the frig be changed? And can you post more of the floorplan so we can see what is "south of the kitchen?

Hi, yes the windows can and actually I want them to go. I am thinking about putting a row of high windows (transoms) to screen out the neighboring house along the outside wall. Here is the full 1st floor:

This is just for fun. One of the ways to deal with having two separate spaces is to have two separate spaces.

Other thoughts - I'm guessing the kids are pretty young that you're envisioning them spending all their time with you in the kitchen instead of being at school or hanging with their friends or being in the family room. How will you use the space in a few years when they're too old for that?

I guess the point of the remodel is probably the family room but have you tried thinking of that location as kitchen and the kitchen as family room?

The location of the purple circle is the family room furniture and STAIRS contention. Maybe think about the furniture arrangements again.

Sorry if this is a big blunder - without the rest of the house, all I can do is guess that all those other closets are for something, really rough measurements and maybe a pathway exists that leads through the kitchen south to somewhere.

{{!gwi}}

Thanks so much for the great ideas! Let me give a little more background info. The second plan image I posted shows the living room which is toward the front of the house. My kids are in elementary school and yes, right now they love to be in the same room as us all of the time. The idea of the family room in the back of the house is for views of the backyard and possible future pool. Also, when the kids are older then there will be 2 separate "living areas" with tvs etc, so they have a kid hangout while the adults are in the kitchen and back family room. The only problem I see with the one wall is the windows. On the left side of our house there is a large house and we have no view. I would like to screen that out as much as possible, that is why I am thinking high transom windows. Those windows would be high enough to clear the neighbor's house and we'd just be able to see the sky! One question, is having a second sink a large expense as far as plumbing etc? My dh thinks having 2 sinks is overkill? I like the idea, but not sure how much more $$$ we're adding by having a prep sink...

Your bump in the space reminded me of this kitchen I love. Here are some pics and also a floorplan.

Oh, that is so beautiful. I love that style. Thanks for sharing the article, it is great!

Sorry about the confusion. I stared at it a while before finding something ok enough to sketch. Seeing the floor plan makes it different.

I tried using the space behind the stairs as the dining area. It felt a little narrow. I was hoping for a dining room on the other side of those closets cause the proper dining room is even narrower. Rats.

Can the little kitchen wall be removed - where the hallway makes a turn next to the closet under the stairs? It would give you a beautiful vista through the house out the back windows. Do a little bump out in the narrow section - seat high with transom or skylights or both for dining area? Use bumpout window as banquette seating. Make a cool narrow buffet on stair wall for dining stuff storage.

Have a clean up station where the original bump out is shown and use the rest of the former dining room as kitchen. Your clean up area can double as a bar-coffee zone when entertaining. The business of cooking can take place in the bay.

Sinks can be cheap or expensive. Adding the "hand washing" sink to our kitchen was $400 or something like that. We had easy plumbing tho, open basement and a drain stack 2 feet away.

Have you thought about frosted or wavy glass panels underneath clear transoms - enough for screening but with nice diffuse light? I'd like to redo the windows in my office for the same reason. Someday I will get up the nerve to try that film.

Nice work, Bmore, as usual.

Do you want ALL the windows moved up high?

You mean there's an age at which the kids don't hang out in the kitchen? I have kids from 5-22 and they haven't hit it yet. :-) My teens and their friends (boys as well as girls) seem to live in the kitchen baking, making pizza, etc., and the only time my eldest doesn't is when she's away at college.

Prep sinks become pretty crucial to efficiency when you extend a kitchen to this size. I think you'll find it becomes really helpful when the kids are bigger and doing projects and helping out in the kitchen even more. It's SO nice to be able to keep dirty dishes confined to one area and still have a sink clear and clean for prepping veggies or chicken, draining and filling pots, and/or for washing gooey hands and getting water for baking projects.

In a kitchen the length of yours, you'd be running back and forth quite a ways with each task without a 2nd sink. Absolute necessity? Not always, and proper location is a must, but something I won't do without in any future kitchen I design for myself, even if we ever get to an empty nest stage. :-)

Thanks for the info. I wish I had software to "see" what the space will actually look like. I will try to fit the 2nd sink into the layout too. I was thinking about getting rid of all regular windows on the left side and just having the transoms, but our friend (who is an architect) did the drawings and really is of the mind set you need a sink window. I tried to tell him that I don't like the view at all! So, do you think it is necessary to keep a window there just for more natural light? I would if it would seem too odd without.

how about putting your cooktop in the bump out part with skinny but tall windows on either side of it?

the area between the fridge and 'cooktop'/bump out might be a good place for a prep sink. could be used by kids when needed or by the cook when needed.

maybe instead of the island being so long and angled it could be shorter but with a rounded end where 2 stools could be for the kids? the island doesn't have to be as long as the space is minus just the aisle width.

If you feel comfortable learning new software, I find the Google Sketch-Up to be a useful tool in working out my home design questions. I've built my kitchen, my bathroom and now working on my kids' rooms. It's free and there are lots of tutorials on line.

Here is a link that might be useful: Google Sketch Up

This is the closest thing I've ever seen to my crazy layout ever! Except we did not take down the wall between our kitchen and dining room. Our addition was existing (added on in the 70's), including the little bump-out. People thought our sink and stove were too far apart, but it has worked out great...that is where we do our main prep. Anyway, here's a link to our before and afters. I haven't really shared these before because our layout is so weird. We live in a city house with thick brick walls (and those beams are structural), so it would have been very costly to eliminate the soffit between the original house and the addition.

Here is a link that might be useful: kitchen remodel

Is there another dining area besides the one labeled dining/study/play?

How wide is the space from the new window wall to the staircase wall?

There is no other dining room area. We currently only use our dining room table a few times a year for eating. All other times it is mainly for folding laundry :-)
We love eating at the island we currently have, so we want to get a larger island so that even when we have people over we can all eat casually at the island.
The space from the new window wall to the staircase wall is approximately 15 ft. Anymore input would be greatly appreciated!

Are you sure it's 15'? Maybe the drawing is not to scale, because in your initial layout, the island end nearest the staircase looks to be 2' deep at most. If the cabs there are 2', a 3' aisle and then 2' of island, that would mean that the aisle behind that end of the island would be 7' wide, and it doesn't look like that. If it is indeed 15', or even slightly less, I would really consider something like the layout in the pics I posted above. The frig on the short end of the "L", then the sink under the window, cabs with the range along the "casement" window wall, 2 islands like Bmore has shown.

Also, being that you will only have 1 dining table area, you might want to consider eliminating the desk? It really looks like a tight space if that will be your only table. Do you have to have the closet and the little square next to it? Just looks like there's alot going on in that space.

I measured to the back wall of windows, the other wall to the stairs is about 11'. I don't like the shape of the current island on the plans. We are actually considering removing the dining room table all together to have a work/play space for the kids. I'm going to look at the 2 island idea more. I need to keep the closets since we need as many of them as possible. Actually, I'd like to add more if possible. THe other idea I was considering is making the kitchen smaller and adding a walk in pantry on the far end across from the "dining" area. But, then again that would shrink the island...