I'm DIYing my design but I completely understand the position you're in. This is the order I've decided to do things in:

1. install flooring
2. install cabinet boxes
3. install granite counters
4. take as long as I need to decide on cabinet fronts and panels then install those
5. take as long as I need to decide on wall colour then paint

My logic is that floors and counters are the hardest to change (and most expensive in my case), so other decisions need to flow from those critical first two decisions. Be SURE about flooring and counters before making any other decisions.

In my case I really want to see the counters installed before doing fronts/panels because I'm doing granite that has a pattern and I think it's hard to really know how it's going to look/feel beforehand.

Sorry, I don't know the process of working with a kitchen designer so I don't know what your options are. I'm just doing IKEA with custom fronts.

Given what you are about to spend on this, forget the extra $500 and put this off until you can deal with it in a sane way. There may even be a better promotion then, who knows? Ending up with months of second guessing, or not liking something after install, or having to redo a piece because you rushed will cost you more than that $500.

Plus it doesn't seem like you have found the right place to work with yet. Decide what features you want (full extension? Soft close? Frameless? Painted?) etc and then pick a ballpark budget, then find someone that can help you reconcile the two. I've seen it posted here soooo many times that once you get to the mid range cabinets (so all decently constructed), finding the right person to work with is more important as they can match you to the right line for your needs and budget.

i have gotten quotes from 3 KDs for medallion, diamond and kraftmaid. i would not appreciate the kd you are working with either. clearly is taking too long to get back to you and the pressure is not helpful. it is possible that shiloh is having a price increase as the diamond rep said diamond prices go up mid march but you cant rush a big decision.
ask yourself are you totally sold on shiloh? there have to be many other mid range cabinets available to you if you aren't in love with them.
i have eliminated 2 kd because their responses are not what i am looking for time wise and they are too high or not listening to my wants. if the rep isn't working with you prior to the sale, good luck afterwards is my working theory.
ps i was in technology sales for many years and know what a good sales rep looks like. i did many designs and redesigns of networks for customers with a quick turn around. i figure if i can't get that attitude in a kd, it is time to move on. you set the expectations as a potential customer and shouldn't feel obligated to do anything you aren't happy about!

1. I don't think you are in a good position to order the cabinets. You should not make such a big purchase under pressure. I passed up a $500 discount in November...guess what....the $500 discount is back and I am placing my order this week since I finally have all of the details worked out.

2. You are only going to get so much free information. Based on your post, you seem to be a high stress person. It seems like either you haven't found the right fit, or you might have unreasonable expectations about the process.

I would definitely put this off until you can focus on the kitchen. Then go through ASID to hire a designer. I think you are dealing with people who are primarily sales people. You can hire a designer by the hour who will understand what you need.

Good advice and good points made from everyone above. You don't seem to be a position to be making any major decisions right now, and really, is this amount of stress worth $500.00?? There is ALWAYS another promotion down the road, as rebecca pointed out.

And, as ardcp points out, you don't seem sold on Shiloh's colors anyway, so why are you rushing to get in on a deal for something that you don't really love? Is Shiloh the only cabinet that you are considering? There are many, many other options, and I'm sure you can find a cabinet with a color that you fall in love with. Why try to MAKE yourself love something that you don't?

Very few of us can actually plan out kitchens so that we have every single item picked out before we begin. My DH and I got so sick of listening to each talk about our "future" kitchen that we finally just ripped it down to the studs without having picked out a single thing.

Regarding not having "access" to your design, whoever is ordering your cabinets should be able to provide you with very detailed drawings and you should be able to look over them at you leisure so that you can have time to think about and make any changes that you might want. Rushing is a good way for mistakes to happen. Mistakes that YOU will have signed off on.

Is Home Depot still offering free design services? Go there. They will draw something up for you and give it to you, so at least you will have something to look at and go over. If you are having a hard time working with your KD, go elsewhere. It's not likely to improve over time. Take the measurements yourself and take them with you. They may not be accurate to 1/4 inch, but they will be accurate enough to give you a workable design and a price. I wouldn't expect a company to come out and measure my kitchen if I hadn't paid them a deposit.

Sorry to hear about your little dogs. That's heartbreaking! :-(

Lynn, based on your posts here over the years, part of the problem is your style of communicaton. You skip important details, and fail to understand others. You personify ''analysis paralysis''. What you really need is a full service designer that will present you with a limited number of appropriate choices based on your taste, and then have her completely, take charge of the project for you, with you writing the checks. That person will come at a premium, but yu need to find her. Or your project will never appen, or you'll end up picking something you shouldn't.

The designer is more important than whatever lines they might rep. Find the person first. Then let them worry about the details.

Lynn, cabinet order needs to wait! It's a process. They do a design, you look at it, tweak it, get an updated design, maybe tweak it again. All the while, the kd should be listening to what you want and don't want so the designs get better and better until it's exactly what you want. "Oh, you don't want that, then how about we do this?"

The layout of the kitchen is different than picking out colors and counters. I feel like the kd should be doing most of the layout work, while you decide the look you want to achieve as far as colors, etc. Since you already know what your floor will be and you know you want white cabinets, why not choose a counter material and THEN come back and choose which white goes with the floor tile and counter. In the meantime, your kd should be coming up with your layout including everything you want and don't want using correct measurements that he, himself, has taken. And you may need a new kd for this to happen.

Back tracking a little.
First, I am SO sorry for the loss of your babies. There are many here who completely understand the paralysis that loss, let alone several can bring. I lost 3 kitties and my golden retriever at the very same time and was almost catatonic.

The other thing, since you're able and must wait until tax seasons pass, is to take a breath and hold on. It'll go up $500? Well, as you've already seen, it'll go down $500.

I agree that you might want to get yourself some graph paper and start at the beginning. DRAW out your desired kitchen. Don't count on someone else to do it right, despite how happens when you find the perfect KD. And it sounds like you do NOt have the right one.

If you start with your own info, supplying it to the KD, it's up to them to move from there. Granted, they should never, ever order without they themselves taking measurements, but at least they can't pull it out of their bummies.

Slow down. Don't respond to pressure, but being frantic won't help. Don't settle, either.
Hang in there, it'll work out.

It seems to me that you are a busy professional with an expertise it many things, but that you are not a DIY, handy, spatially fluent type of person.

When someone who is not a numbers person with attention to detail, specific trade knowledge, and experience and expertise as to what can go wrong tries to do their books and their taxes, what can happen?

Same thing as when someone who is not experienced at visual nuance, mechanical systems, critical path project management with trade contacts and materials handling tries to design and install a kitchen.

Paying for and using Professional help is not a sign of weakness. It means you have an appreciation for the value-add of an expert to the outcome.

I think your outcome would be the most satisfactory if you find and budget for a full-service contractor.

Lynn, as everyone else has said, forget the $500 and start over by finding a KD you have confidence in. It doesn't sound like the right fit was there with any of the KD's you've described.
You've got tons of "kitchen knowledge", you pretty much know what you want, you just need to find the right person to help you achieve it.
Take a break (not from us), take care of your little baby & start your hunt after tax season.

I just reread this post to make sure it makes sense. I am so sorry it is so long. I keep thinking I should save it to an email to myself and edit this post to make it more brief but I think I will just send it. It will help me to go back and reread posts and my reply when I am ready to look for the right KD fit after tax season.

Thank you everyone for being there for me. I reread all the posts a few times and I am taking a deep breath. I know I would like to get my new kitchen started as soon as tax season ends, but this is not the right time to be making decisions. This KD should have gotten me a plan right away to work with and let me have it to look over so I could have made changes in early November 2013 when he first arrived. I knew exactly what I wanted then and told him but he drew up a totally different plan. Then he should have listened and worked with me and not let so many weeks pass. I do not like the way he is pressuring me or the way he put off giving me everything when it is a bad time to be making a decision. I lost a lot more than the $500 last night and today by not being able to work or sleep well.

I am going to email him right now in reply to his email. He wrote me when I was food shopping as I had hardly any food in the house. He has not even sent me an updated plan of my kitchen with the changes that I told him I wanted Thursday night so how does he expect me to sign a contract tomorrow. I also am not trusting his calculations.

I am going to tell him to pick up his sample doors, that I do not need this pressure and I am not ready to make a decision yet without new plans to look over. Without yet choosing a counter, I could not tell which color white looked best with my floor. I do not feel we work well together with you pressuring me and not giving me all the details I need to be sure I am getting what I want as it is my kitchen and I want to enjoy it.

Again, I want to thank all of you for being there for me and letting me vent and making me feel I am right that this is not the right time. When tax season ends, I will finally be totally ready as I know what I want and just need to find the right kitchen designer to help me achieve what I want. I can even draw the design as it is similar to what I have now as I do love my two lazy susan's (now want super susan's) in the bottom corners so much and I could not believe he was taking them out of the design to add more cabinets and cabinets that have partial blind spots. I just wanted him to remove the upper blind corner cabinet and put a cabinet in the corner on an angle that would let me have access to everything inside. I wanted some cabinets changed to drawers. I told him what I wanted and he drew up something totally wrong with wrong measurements at first. I told him all the appliances and the sink stays where they are as I was not changing the layout but changing to new cabinets that would function better without blind spots and more drawers as I dislike the cabinets I have now with no pull-outs. He did not listen to what I wanted early on.

When I find the right KD that is the right fit, my kitchen will finally come together. When the kitchen is done, then I can redo my hardwood floors in the other three rooms. They had been very damaged from the water heater flood in my home and home office on March 20, 2013. It took my insurance company almost all year to settle with me and they are holding up funds until I sign a contract for the floors. I do not want to redo the floors until I have picked out what I want for my kitchen. They had the nerve to drop my home insurance and it took me so many weeks to find a new insurance company to cover my home and my two room home office. I think it is best to do the kitchen first so that the stainless steel appliances can be moved to the other rooms without worrying about damaging new wood floors.

Sassy is sleeping on a furry blanket under my desk. She also has a bed under it. She had not been coughing that much with the new medicine but she is depressed over the loss of her two "fur-sisters". She had never been an only dog before. Sassy is a little Maltese who is now 12.25 years at 6.2 lbs that has an acquired heart murmur due to a deterioration in her heart valves and has fluid in her lungs from bursting blood vessels (that is what the cardiologist told me). I want to give Sassy a chance at feeling better for the rest of her short life which I was told was a "guarded year" if she did well on the medicine. Sassy loves visitors but lately is not her "sassy" self. I also miss Skeeter (12-30-11 passed from seizures), Panda (12-26-13 passed) and Lexi (01-02-14 passed in my arms from heart failure that she has had since birth and had been seeing a cardiologist). The grief has been a lot but when tax season started, I have been able to focus on my work when I am working.

I could not deal with the kitchen in January as I was then finding out that Sassy who was healthy her whole life was now in heart failure. I told the Kitchen Designer that we will deal with it after tax season. But he kept pressuring me and I do not like the way he does things.

Thank you all. I will be visiting for breaks during my tax season but will not look at my kitchen situation until after April 15th.

I feel at peace that the kitchen will happen and I will be able to get started on the project when my tax season ends.

This post was edited by lynn2006 on Sun, Feb 23, 14 at 23:51

JulieKCMO, several months ago, I did call a highly referred general contractor (someone on the kitchen forum emailed me about him) who called to tell me he was coming by 2 hours early and he came here giving me hardly any time and left and I never heard from him again. I guess he thought my job was not big enough for him. I was going to give him the kitchen floors, the kitchen cabinets (including the job of removing the empty soffit that is only there for design purposes), the recessed lights in all the rooms down stairs, and the hardwood floors in the other three rooms down stairs to do. I wanted to get the job done especially now that all four rooms downstairs, where my home office is, are damaged from the water heater's pipe breaking.

I live in a very nice neighborhood and many professionals live in my small neighborhood of townhouses. I have lived here now for 16 years as I love my home and I love my neighborhood. I am in a very high cost safe area (Northern NJ is expensive to live in) and the townhouses in my neighborhood are as much as many of the houses around here in cost and sometimes cost more. Many of the owners here have already redone their kitchens and many have removed the soffits. My neighbor who just moved, redid all three bathrooms and the kitchen but when his wife got pregnant again, he put the townhouse on the market and got multiple bids and it was sold within two weeks.

I chose a townhouse since as you can tell by my posts that I am not handy and wanted someone else to do the yard for me and the outside upkeep. Hence, I do not know why he came so early in a rush and could not even give me 30 minutes of his time and never called me back even after I emailed him pictures of my kitchen to help him out and told him to keep the same design but no blind cabinets, no soffit, taller cabinets and more drawers.

That is when I went back to finding a kitchen designer that sold Shiloh that also installed. This KD I was dealing with used to install also but now finds outside contractors to come with him to the 2nd appointment to be paid by the customer. He only wants to profit from the sale. There was a store that I was very comfortable with that has their own installers that would do everything for me but they did not sell Shiloh Cabinets. I will revisit the kitchen decision after tax season. I know exactly what I want and I wish I could draw better or I would design it and just hand the design to someone to get the cabinets to fit like I want. But the other two KD's, gave me estimates in a few days since I was not changing the layout and told them what I wanted. My problem was not having an installer and the stores were not going to supply one.

I have a flooring store chosen that I would like to do the wood floors in the other three rooms (unless the contractor I am dealing with wants to do everything for me) and they would do the tile floor if I wanted them to but they do not install kitchen cabinets. I thought the general contractor would want the job if I was giving him the other three rooms also for more work.

Thank you for thinking of me. Thank you everyone for sharing always on this wonderful forum where I have learned so much that I know what I want in my kitchen. I would have had the project done if I did not have all those prior year set-backs.

I am so glad I posted this yesterday and made the decision to wait as I have been having so many people drop off their taxes and I need to focus on the work that I enjoy doing that I am good at doing than keep obsession on which color door and wanting to make more changes to the cabinets chosen in the layout.

The KD is coming by at 3 PM to take the samples away. I have not told him yet that I am not ready as I am so tired from not sleeping well and was afraid that the written word would come out mean. I will just tell him that timing is bad as I can't figure out which white as they change colors as the sunlight changes and I need to see which one looks best with the counter I will choose after tax season. I decided to not say anything else but I will tell him that I can't work this way with all this pressure and not enough time to tweak the design to make the kitchen design well for me. He still had not sent me the changes that I told him about Thursday night and wants me to sign a contract when I am not ready yet.

So I will add to my observations to this post for me to read again after tax season what I am seeing about the two whites as both could work that Shiloh offers if I do not consider the Artic White.

I am finding out that in some lights when the sun comes up and then goes down, the Polar white looks best with my tiles as a neutral and would work well if I had a grayish counter.

However, if I had a creamier counter, the soft white may look better and appears white in some day lighting and throughout the day changes color and then is back to being a little bit creamier than I like. Maybe both will appear white when all of the cabinets are white so it is the counter that will matter in choosing which white door compliments the kitchen cabinets and drawers and the kitchen tile floor. I am seeing that it does not have to be a perfect match but needs to be pleasing to my eyes.

In the morning I thought I wanted the soft white but now in the middle of the afternoon, I like the polar white better.

Thank goodness I am putting this decision off until I have time to pick a kitchen counter after tax season.

I also want a placed for my trash in the design that this KD does not have I have decided.

Thank you all again for your help and letting me vent and giving me such wonderful opinions!

My walls are SW Antique White. The light affects them so much. On a bright day, they look yellow, so you should bring those samples back in when spring and summer brings in brighter light to your home.

I also wanted to say about your dog.... We were in the middle of planning our remodel when our cat started having heart problems. He died a month before we tore out the kitchen. Looking back, I'm thankful we didn't put him through the disruption of the remodel and strangers in the house while he had health issues. It was a blessing that he lived out his remaining time in a quiet, peaceful home. I think you should give that gift to Sassy.

Lynn, you're parroting back some of what was said to you, but you aren't understanding exactly what's been said. Skip the kitchen design all together at the moment. Forget about it. Forget about which cabinet lines. Or how many drawer bases and all of that.

Focus on finding someone who can extract what you want from your way of saying you want it. I personally find books and taxes painfully brain busting. But, I get spatial relationships. You are wanting to micromanage something you really don't get and you're going about it in a way that makes the process difficult for you and for any professional that might want to help you. You'd be a VERY challenging client for me. Not because I couldn't give you what you want, but because you're so focused on the trees that you don't see the forest, or, even understand that trees together make up a forest.

You've got to find someone who gets YOU, first of all. It's like dating all of those frogs to find a prince. All of those frogs will be someone's prince. You just have to find yours. And then let go. Let them do what THEY are good at doing.

May_Flowers, thank you for your kind words and sympathy about my loss of my two "furchildren". I am so sorry about your cat. Maybe it is good, it is quiet in my office as I work and the visitors are clients that Sassy knows and it is quiet here. Thanks for the reminder.

You are right that when tax season ends, I will be able to see the white door colors in the brighter spring and summer light.

I have BM Bone White on my home office walls, family room, kitchen, hall upstairs, and laundry room. I almost chose SW Antique White instead. They were so close in formula and in color perceived with my eyes so I chose the BM color due to the pearl finish that I wanted. The color changes all day but I love the wall color in all kinds of light. It is such a peaceful soothing color on the walls.

All this anxiety is painful to read. Totally agree you need to find a designer to take you through an organized process and to be your liaison with everyone involved. When you do that, be concise in your communications with her. Bring pictures of kitchens you like. Know what you don't like.

As for the salesman, simply tell him you are not ready to move forward. If he pushes, tell him if you need him again you will let him know. He doesn't need or want to know anything else.

I also agree with MF. This is Sassy's time. Just do your taxes and love your pup. Forget the house for now. It's a big project that can and must wait to end happily.

Oh, and take plenty of deep breaths!

This post was edited by snookums2 on Mon, Feb 24, 14 at 18:33

My only recommendation beyond what everyone else has said , and I totally agree with them, is this:

AFTER tax season, when you are ready to make decisions, FIRST get the insurance claim for the floors settled. Pick out what you want, find a store, sign a contract. Don't worry about offering the work to the kitchen contractor; including an insurance claim job will make things too complicated. Once the contract is signed and the insurance company is satisfied, you can actually wait to have the work done until after the appliances are back in the kitchen (however, I was able to move the frig and stove onto my hardwood and back without damaging it). The advantage will be, one less thing to stress about.

Live-Wire-Oak, I thank you for your post. I finally do get it at last that it does not matter if the white is perfect but what matters is how everything in the kitchen goes well together giving that elegant pretty look. The recent kitchens posted made me realize this and the new reveals came at just the right time.

The KD and I talked when he came by for his sample doors and he had more changes he made but I told him I did not have time to go over them if I had to order only today before the price went up. I needed to do my work as I like to get done right away what is given to me to please my clients. He agreed that if I could not decide which white door but I still loved the Shiloh Flat Panel beaded inset cabinets, then I should wait and pick out my counter first and then decide how the counter, floors and cabinets look altogether. Apparently each change takes him hours as he does it manually. I explained to him that I had told you to leave everything the way it was but take away the blind cabinet and kept the Lazy Susans. He told me he was trying to make the new kitchen better with other cabinets a little bigger but he sees I did tell him that. He is sorry he heard me tell him a 36" opening and saw all my emails and pictures of the refrigerator I wanted but he remembered the one I had was 33" wide so he wanted it to look build-in so drew the lesser space. I felt bad since he looked like he was going to cry and I told him, timing was so wrong and the pressuring was not good for me and if he gave me the designs right way a few months ago, we could have worked together to tweak it to be what I wanted and then had more time to pick out the right white door and counter but I am too busy to do it right now as my clients are my priority at the moment.

I guess I would be more comfortable sitting in front of a computer with a designer making changes to show how it affects my room and my budget.

I am that much closer to having my new kitchen with new floors as soon as my tax season ends. I am now finally seeing the forest and not lost in the trees. I did reread all the posts above many times and plan to before looking again after tax season. I still love the Shiloh beaded Inset door in the flat panel.

I remember when I picked out my home office desk about 19 years ago. I walked in the store and fell in love with the beautiful Scandinavian teak desk that had a big rounded edge in the front to have more room to go over paperwork with clients. I did not like the price but was told I could get a cherry veneer. I ordered it on the spot and I still love it.

When I chose my home, I had looked at 10 houses and disliked them all. When I was faxed the layout of my townhouse, I loved it. When I finally decided to be open to a townhouse, I loved the outside as they all look a little different where I live. I loved the inside layout and the way the home office is separate from the rest of the house. I loved how clients did not walk through my living area and have a bathroom to use in the home office area. I loved my private back yard with the privacy fence and woods in the back. I loved the location and how it was only 6 miles from where I was living and near so many highways but still country like. I went home to measure everything and came back the next day to be sure everything would fit. I then knew this is where I wanted to live and I am still happy here even after over 16 years.

BUT when I chose paint and floors, I could not see how it would look as I could only see a small sample and I have been needing help. I get lost in the trees like you said which is so true! I was able to pick the BM Bone White color on the wall as a painting designer on the paint forum of Garden Web told me it only looked dark as I had a big spot on a big white wall and it was actually very light and peaceful and I should just go with it. I then thought, I would listen and I love my wall color.

I am finally seeing that once everything goes well together, I will be happy and the perfect shade of white does not exist. I just want someone that listens to me and I guess maybe I need to communicate better what I want since I am a number's person and not a spatial person.

The kitchen designer told me when I am ready, he is still willing to work with me if I want to call him and gave me another card. I felt bad since he thought I was buying today but I wish he would have realized that I needed to pick out a counter to tell which door color would be for me and he should have emailed me the new changes to have time to go over them to be sure I liked them. I should have not let myself be pressured and told him that it does not matter if there will be a price increase, now is not the right time as it takes me awhile to go through the process of finding what I want.

This forum made me realize it was the whole picture I needed to see and not the individual pieces that would make my kitchen come together. I just wish I had room for an island but I wanted to live where I live and you get so much less for the money.

I just reread my post and I can't believe how long it is. I type over 100 words a minute on a big screen computer and I eat my meals as I post. I am eating dinner now before getting back to work. I will leave it as I want to be able to go back and read these posts over and over again before I get back to choosing my kitchen when tax season ends.

Thank you!

Snookums2, I just read the posts and saw two of yours. I feel you and others are right that I need a designer and not a pushy salesman so everything can come together and I can have guidance. All of you have been wonderful guiding me and I am so happy tonight that I am finally seeing the big picture and will focus on my work and spending time with Sassy so I will have no regrets when she passes. When I am ready after tax season, I will be more educated and it will be easier for me to finalize a kitchen.

raee, I am just seeing your post. You are so right that I need to get the insurance claim over with! Maybe you are right that I need to have one store do all the floors and not worry about giving the kitchen contractor more work. Maybe this will be easier for the insurance claim. Thank you!

But I also need the cabinets out of the kitchen. I guess once the insurance claim is finally settled, then I can have everyone work together to make this happen for me and not be without my kitchen so long. I will have to work the two together but I do need to get a contract signed as this is stressing me also. I will call the insurance company tomorrow to tell them I need more time and will get right to it after my tax season.