These may help:

Current layout:

Round 1 layout:

Round 2 layout: (inspiration colleenmills)
is very similar to Rounnd 1, but move the 36" range to the wall perpendicular to the sink, and make the whole sink wall into a wall of windows.
The island would be ~8ft from the range, due to the fireplace being in the flow/way.

Thank you.

I know you've worked so hard to get this difficult space to work...and I have to say, I think you've done it! I really like the layout in the kitchen, and how everything fits in around it. The kitchen looks likt it'll work well, and best of all you fit in the big fridge and freezer and the big range, and lots of island counterspace! Best of all, it does a great job of making the fireplace an asset instead of a burden.

The only thing I see that may be a concern is the dining room. Be sure to check the scale there to make sure there's enough room for the table and chairs without it being too crowded.

Is that *gasp* a pantry next to the coolers? :)

I like the general layout. Will the big mudroom include a powder room? An office? A play area? Bicycle storage? A storeroom area? Laundry?

Is there any way you can give us a picture with more measurements? I, too, am worried about the size of the dining room.

The flow makes so much sense! The LR to the DR, the kitchen open to the FR, the fireplace where it can be enjoyed, the mudroom entry from the garage.

The wall you're removing was originally exterior, right? Do talk to someone as soon as you can about what it will take to remove it. You'll probably have to add to the footings as well as the big beam. Definitely worth it. It's just nice to know what all is involved while you're still in the planning phase.

My layout makes it look like I have a lot of space, yes?
So wouldn't it be weird that I limit my kitchen to only about 13' (along the deck-wall) by 9', and then the fridge area?



Alku05: ¡§I think you¡¦ve done it!¡¨

Yay!!!! I think you¡¦re right. The more I think about it, the more I like this layout.

For dinner tonight, it really settled it that I cannot have the kitchen staying in the corner (behind the fireplace) anymore, because as I was plating the kids¡¦ dinner, they were sitting at the dining room table fighting. I couldn¡¦t see what they were doing to each other (constantly fighting: a 3.5years old DS and a 2years old DD).

With this layout, since I¡¦m ALWAYS in the kitchen, I¡¦ll be able to see them when they¡¦re in the DR or the family room (fighting over the remote or something).

I¡¦ll sketch out the design in a 3D software (House Designer by Chief Architect) to really make sure that the DR will fit there. My one concern is that while this table/6 chairs will fit there, someday I¡¦d like to upgrade to an 8-seater (or bigger) because we hosts many parties/dinners.
Last month, we put 2 long tables lengthwise so that 4 families all fit (in that WASTED SPACE); it was great!




Plllog: I think my sketch is not perfectly to scale. The mudroom (behind the fridge/freezer) would only be about 5' (at the windows to 7' by the Microwave) by 8'. I want it large enough for us 4 to be able to scramble in and put on our jackets and shoes, and grab our backpacks w/out killing each other.
I was thinking of this kind of set-up, but w/ 4 lockers. {{gwi:1675241}}

I¡¦m not sure if I can do a pantry next to the fridge.
1. It¡¦s about 24¨ between those 2 windows, INCLUDING the molding around the windows. So should I cut into the window moldings or do I carve the moldings into the cabinet?
2. That wall is the only wall for the hot water base-board heating duct, so I would ?carve? out an 8¨ niche out of the cabinet? I was thinking of putting open shelving there. BUT if I can fit into my budget radiant flooring, I may be able to get rid of that base-board duct all together¡K
So my 2 closet pantries are still by the bathroom, back behind the fireplace.

Yes, I do have to talk to someone about removing that wall that was originally an exterior wall. Who do you suggest? Just a contractor or an architect or who?

"Add to the footings": what does that mean? I wouldn't mind a big beam there. We kinda have some beams in the DR and Familyroom right now, and I love them.

I think the major issue with the plan is the Green Circle..titled "DH Clean" that's soooo impossible. ROFLMAO

No, seriously, it looks great.

Where are you going to put everything? Dishes, glasses, tupperware, pantry items, pots/pans? It just doesn't look to me like there's a lot of storage space. Is that thick black line all windows and french doors? Can any cabinetry go on that wall? It also looks like a long walk from the frig to the dining table. Just imagine carrying everything back and forth at meal time. How wide is the room? Are those windows on either side of the frig/freezer wall? Is that a wall that you're building? If those are windows, how high off the floor are they? Are you willing to move them?

I think the kitchen may be in the right space, it just doesn't look like enough space.

If you really want to somewhat keep this layout, I would get rid of the prep sink and move the main sink to the island. Center the range on the outside wall.

Sorry...I just don't think you're going to be happy with the layout the way it is right now.

malhgold: oh please don't be sorry. ALL feedback is appreciated. How else would I be at Round 3 (really Round 6 or 9...)? :)

I'll try to lay everything out soon.
I think I was just trying to see if things/rooms flow well, w/ the big picture.

Storage:
- I have 2 large closets (by the new DR location), so all set w/ pantry/Costco items.
- dishes will be to the Left of main sink and the 2 Left cabinets of island.
- Pots would be the cabinet next to the prep sink. (currently, all my pots/pans fit in a 24" pull-out cabinet. All my non-regularly used pots, like the lobster pots, are in the basement/storage room.)
- small appliances (like rice cooker), plugged in, would be in the middle cabinet of island (all in 1 cabinet now).
- Tupperware would be under the MW; Baking sheets/casserole dishes would be above MW, like they are now.
I guess I don't have that much stuff that I use daily.

As for putting the main sink on the island, I haven't seen many main sink islands that have a big drying rack there. I think I'll ALWAYS have a drying rack, and while it's ugly along the wall, I think it'll be uglier on the island. hmmmm....

Behind the main sink is are large counter-height windows (that is currently a set of French doors). The house faces South w/ no neighbors so I want as much light as possible.
I think I can fit a nice hood on that wall where the range is.
The 3-door/French door to the Right of the range have to stay as is. It's our access to the backyard/patio/deck.

As for the fridge/freezer, because of the open floor plan, I need help for ideas of where I can put these things. Currently the fridge is very far from the DR and I don't feel that the distance is a negative thing; I guess I don't get too many items from the fridge for dinner; usually just from the stove/oven...

Unfortunately, I cannot change those 2 windows on the sides of the fridges, nor their height (~30" from the floor). They face the front of the house.

Do I NEED to build an actual wall, or can I just use the 2 mammoth fridges/MW-cabinets to act as the wall? Then on the other side-Mudroom, I can put up those locker-looking cabinets?

Thank you so much for your thought-provoking questions.
off to bed (toddlers will be up at crack of dawn and this mama is tired!)

I think we need to see more dimensions in order to help you. For example, space from corner of new family room to window, space in between those 2 windows on front of house. Space in new DR, etc. As others have said, I'm not sure everything in your layout is in proportion. Looks like a lot of space to dedicate to a mud room. Also, can people see in that front window. Do you want them looking into a mud room?

I think at one point you had considered the DR where the french doors are. Maybe think about that again, extending the cabs all the way down that outside wall. Then you could put a smaller island down near the end where you extended the cabs. Something like in this layout.

Re footings (i.e., foundations), think about vectors. The load that goes on the new beam has to go somewhere. Since it is only connected to the footings at the ends of the openings, they have to be sufficient to bear the load. Unless your house is on particularly difficult soil or particularly ill made, this is doable. Around here (So. Cal.) there's a book everyone uses with tables to look up what sizes are needed. If it's a formerly exterior wall, and I'm pretty sure there's a second story, there's a lot of weight involved, and besides the beam you might need posts.

Don't let it scare you! Just find out before you get too much farther. If you don't already know a GC or architect whom you know has relevant experience, and whom you trust, try a structural engineer. This is what they do for a living :) The engineer should be able to draw up working plans for it too, which you can submit for permits. Applying for the permit to do this kind of work before getting too locked in is a good idea too. I'd rather know it was going to be approved and have to renew a permit (and pay an extra fee), than be all ready to go and stall out for months because it was denied.

I agree with Malhgold about putting the sink in the island. If you were attached to looking out the window from the sink, or the light from the window on the sink, that would be another story. But your dishdrainer can sit in the sink when you've finished washing up, or you can use the DW as a drainer, or when your kids are past the sippy cup age you can have them dry things and put them away immmediately. Or you can use a handled tray under the drainer instead of just the mat and lift it over to the back counter. Just don't limit your options before you've started over something that's moveable :)

You might have answered and I didn't understand it, but the thing I thought was a pantry was that box between the fridge and the wall. Or is that where you meant about the shelves and baseboard heater? I'm confused :)

This layout really does flow well. As to the whole family sitting down, can you make your FR furniture un-bulky enough to move? That's what we do in my family. We move the couches and chairs and endtables (ceiling lighting) to the smaller rooms and put banquet tables and folding chairs in the FR/LR. I've sometimes thought I needed a house with a ballroom for entertaining the family :) But while I'll put in an extra oven for that, I just can't see having 1000 extra sq. ft. of house to do it. It would be fun though :)

I hope you can do a true scale drawing (with real life appliance sizes, etc.). It would be great to see exactly what you're working with.

Thanks to malhgolds urging, I tried this layout again.
Here is my layout in very precise measurement. (While DD was napping, play-time today w/ DS was to have him hold the measuring tape. He got tired of this game after a while. Heeeheheee).

I like this one so much more than the next one below.
PROS:
- Moving the wall (behind the range) by 2feet gives me more room in my tiny bathroom.
- I have my wall of windows (using Colleenmills kitchen as my inspiration)
- For big dinner parties, I can add another table to the right of the island to meet up w/ the Dining table. So I wouldnt be stuck in a corner (like in the layout below).
- I get 2 dishwashers: yay!

CONS:
- Yes, one of the front windows will be into the mudroom. But:
-- Ill have shades or curtains for both windows.
-- Were about 200ft back from the road
-- Guests arrive to the house via the front door; regular-friends come via the porch door. Most people just come to the porch door, and maybe look into the 1st window, but no one (not even us) look into the 2nd window.

- Im not loving how the range starts right at the corner.

Note: the mudroom is actually about 8inches less wide than shown; the software doesnt let me control angled walls well.

DRright:

DRLeft:

Malhgold: thank you so much for your feedback and those example pictures.
I had nixed this "DR on the Right" layout, because of my concern w/ the distance between the range and the fireplace. I am re-using my cabinets, so I had tried to squeeze in my lazy susan in there, which pushed the range out too close to the fireplace.
But once I put in a ?blind-corner? Cabinet, I got that distance to be about 38inches and thats good enough.

Plllog:
Thank you for the lesson in footings.
Yes, there is a 2nd floor to the main house, and were thinking of adding a 2nd floor to the current Familyroom (where the DR will be) to connect to the 2nd floor of the garage. So I am certain that I need an architect or a structural engineer.

So its never too early to apply for permits? Very good to know. I believe this town requires a permit for everything beyond changing the lightbulb.

Familyroom furniture: we dont have any right now. Its basically a playroom, so we have lots of play-kitchen, play-construction-table, train table, buckets and buckets of books and toys, but nothing for the adults. Once we settle on which room will be the familyroom, we will purchase items to fit the room.
(Funny thing: we had purchase a new livingroom set back in the previous house. While we thought the set looked great there, the set looks so perfect in this house that they look like we had purchased them for this house.)

Again, thank you for sticking with me. Really appreciate it.

Oh, the new one is even better yet! A mini-con is that you lose any pretense of a formal dining room, but you gain a great room that makes sense. And since people come in that way, how welcoming it will be! There's much more kitchen in the kitchen than in your very first plan (is it really the same number of cabinets, or are you supplementing?), and this way the pantry is in the kitchen, more or less, rather than some other part of the house altogether!

The one thing that concerns me is the corner where the range is. Can you afford to lose the cabinets between the DW and the range? Maybe add them to the island? The continuous counter is better, but then you'd have freedom to move and could make a real highlight out of the range wall. I can't really find another solution. So much else works so well here!

And, no, it's never too early to apply for permits. They expire, but compared to the scope of a kitchen remodel they're not usually expensive. You might check with the clerks that they don't disapprove. Most places you just pay a small fee to renew them, or pay the regular fee again to pull a second permit. Building codes don't change fast, however, so if you're approved you can pretty well figure you'll stay approved if you build within the next year or two. Again, check with people in your town and with the clerks to make sure that that's true locally.

I don't think the window into the mudroom is any problem at all! Natural light and cross ventilation are good things for a mudroom, I think :) Besides that it isn't prominent, as you've said, if you really don't want people looking at coats and backpacks through the window you can get pebbled glass for it.

If that is to scale, I don't think the DR on the left fits. You're supposed to have at least 2ft. behind the table to pull out the chairs. Looks very tight to me.

In DR on right layout, can you eliminate the DW on the left and put the range in the corner?

Range in corner! It would need a little carpentry for the filler, but what a great idea Malhgold! No corners to get stuck in and an opportunity for a really great hood :)